Planting the Seeds of Suggestion
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2009-10-19 11:56 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Thank you LordXenite.
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True, you implied it, you didn't outright say it.
Originally Posted by neoblayde
I didn't say they [the Devs] owed me anything..
Actually, since your idea seems to cater to those with the Instant Gratification Syndrome, as you yourself demonstrate later on, this idea will lead to much frustration when people figure out that there's nothing they can do to speed up those special respec awards but wait for their vet awards.Quote:
Originally Posted by neoblayde
This idea will not cut down on the time players play the game if it is a vet reward. instead it will encourage more players strive to achieve a high ranked vet status.
In addition, I don't know if you've noticed it or not, but the Devs have been very careful with their Vet awards ensuring that each Vet award does not change the gameplay experience in favor of those with the vet award in comparison with those how have yet to reach the award. Your suggestion actually goes against that and will sow more disgruntlement among the players.
And this will increase the amount of tossed-aside power-sets and decrease the amount of deleted/abandoned characters. Which in turn, will mean that people will not have to play more characters and invest more time in leveling up a character... which means, more people could get more bored with less characters, faster. To Paragon Studios/NCSoft this would read as less money in the long run!Quote:
Originally Posted by neoblayde
This reward is not a complete build respec it is for one set only. You have to play to 32 to obtain it and have high ranking vet status.
Of course others feel like that, and that's exactly why the game needs it to stay the same!Quote:
Originally Posted by neoblayde
A lot of builds I would like to play but going from level 1 to level 50 with it just to test it out isn't feasible to me. If I feel that way then chances are statistically speaking that others will to.
Remember what I said before about Instant Gratification Syndrome? You're the absolute demonstration of it. You're disappointed with a power-set choice, for whatever reason, and you want to change it and want it changed now. This would mean that instead of rolling a new character and leveling that character with the a different power-set combination, you would basically save yourself the time, which means you would play the game less in the long run.
MMOs' are based on the assumption, no... the prediction, that players will finish experiencing whatever content the Devs are putting into the game, be it story-arcs or classes or individual power-sets or even skills, faster than the Devs have time to actually develop newer content. Your suggestion would shorten the time the Devs have based their business model on, so from their point of view, your suggestion is a complete catastrophe!
Then your suggestion is equivalent to asking for a way to create a character at Lv32 instead of Lv1 if the player has attained the Vet status, which again goes against the concept of not allowing Vet awards to fundamentally change the gameplay experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by neoblayde
It is an option only available one time to a build. so you arent constantly respecing to test all the sets so after you have done so you quit the game. which is what seems to be the issue here.
See how you admit you're basically cutting down time which is bad from the MMO business model point of view? Quote:
Originally Posted by neoblayde
I would play more build types if I didn't have start from scratch just to try a new secondary or primary. besides that a vast majority of your time spent in the game is from levels 32 - 50 anyway.
Actually, there already are speculations that Going Rogue may bring with it ways to earn more slots, but no one's sure about that anyway. Not just yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by neoblayde
If the power-swap is really that bad of a suggestion then what about the additional enhancement slots under this same concept?
Actually, the place to post suggestions is here, but I dare speculate that had you posted this suggestion in there, the resulting flames would have been far far worse. Quote:
Originally Posted by neoblayde
like i previously posted i am new to the forum aspect, i didnt see a spot for suggestions, just general discussions. so why dont you point me in the right direction of this forum post please.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
This isn't more content. It's just a new powerset with the same content. ACTUALLY adding content would be a good thing for the Devs to do. Of course, the Devs did give the players a way to make nearly unlimited content, but the Players then drove that system into the ground.
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99% of all player made content is just so BAD it's, IMO of course, hardly worth counting. The generl masses of people are NOT creative enough to pull it off, that's why we all aren't writers and game designers. (i enclude myself most promonently in the, not creative catogary.)
It got drove into the ground because it was a bad idea. having to go through poorly scripted (I know, god knows i'm the last person alive to pick on spelling and gramer, but some of that stuff makes ME look like an english teacher...LOL) unfunny, unengaging, just generally unfun stories, hords and hords of them, to find the small handfull of really really godo ones just was never appealing to ME. And others i'd wager, so they used it instead for powerleveling and thus, the feasico that was AE has been brough to a compleation. Now, since PLing outside the AE building is easer and much more rewarding, and AE has to stand on it's own merits as a story telling device, so far as i can tell, it's dead in that place... even after the guest story archs they published.
that to me, is just more proof they dev's royally wasted there time on that project. But, that's ok. It's out of the way now and i hope the dev's focus on stuff the majority of gamers want, instead of pet projects.
as for the original suggestion, for much the same reasons everyone else has said, i don't like it. Easy mode to 50, then switch into the epic classes, and trick them out? I think not. Not to mention it's a fairly rare thing, as far as i can tell, for comic book heros to fundomently change there powers, in the long term. Alot will have a story or two showing them gaining different powers for a time, but in the long run, they always go back to there original powers. To me, it'd be emersion breaking to constently see people jumping between powersets. *shrug*
That's my 2 cents on it.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
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Although not a direct corollary, your suggestion is akin to asking for primary/ secondary respecifications, so I'll take the liberty of posting this prefabricated rebuttal.|
Originally Posted by neoblayde
I had this posted on a different post but i believe it should go into this general Archtype post.
I would like the Devs to serioulsy review this option because i have been wanting this for years now. Please provide feedback and suggestions as the more we ask, beg and rebel for change to more apt it is to occur. What if you could use the existing "choose build" option to be allowed to change your secondary **OR** primary powerset only. (one or the other, not both :P ) Perhaps it could be incorporated into a "perk" upgrade, like the magic, wedding, science ect perks. Maybe after the purchase a new contact could be placed on the map to do a powerswap of secondary powers, maybe pending a mission arc of some sort. I Think it is penalty enough to loose all your Slotting Hancers especially if you have IO's. I would buy it even if the Perk Upgrade cost $15.00! After all you are only able to choose 2 builds so exploits could only go so far, if at all. Perhaps this could become unlockable content at a certain lvl, like 25, 30, 40, or yet another Perk of becoming lvl 50. I think it would be cool to be able to get to 50 and have the chance to "Master" different powersets. It would add to the enjoyment of getting and playing my 50's. **New Contact Dialog Box at 50** Congrats your character has reached lvl 50, a new contact is now available to further your abilities. Arc content and contact info text inserted into pop up tab. Like i said i would be happy to even pay for such an option. This idea could rake in yet more cash, or much needed cash because it seems that not only is the content lacking at 50 but players are becoming.....distant from COX more and more. Please incorporate this!!! |
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Welcome to the forum. You have posted one of the oft repeated suggestions, "Give us a full respec." Disclaimer Yes. This is a cut and paste reply that I keep handy, as well as a quick bit of instruction on how to search. Neither are meant to cause fights or to be insulting. The search instructions are in, not just because forum rules say flat out to search, but to help you and anyone else reading this use the search tool effectively. The body of the cut and paste reply is the way it is because we've seen these arguments numerous times before. They're a summary of the salient points that come up each time. They are not here to insult you, make you feel stupid or otherwise "bring you down a peg." Instead, they are meant as instruction and information. Please read through the points and the explanation behind them to see the issues that are commonly brought up in response. They may not always match your suggestion 100% - in fact, you may have explained around one or two of them - but they're there for consideration and refinement of your idea. Yes, I do look forward to the time, with some of these suggestions, that someone not only addresses all the points, but does so exceptionally well. It'll probably be added to the end of the cut/paste reply, with credit. For now, though, read and consider the points. They really are just there to help you, and move discussion along to help ideas evolve. If you're going to see this and say an "evil forum vet is just shooting down your idea," or "You think you're the last word because of your post count," you're wrong. Heck, if you say the second, you've just worried more about my post count than I have in the last four plus years. TL,DR reply No. It breaks things too badly. Now, on to the topic at hand.... Why a full respec is not a good idea for COH. So, you've played your Apathy/Dual Wet Noodle Tank to 50 and decided you don't like him. You've come to the forums and said "Why not let me completely respec the character!" Well, people consider a "full respec" to be different things. I'm going to cover a complete and total character respec. If some of them don't apply, well, this comes up enough for this to be a copy and paste reply. There are four things that define your character: 1. Archetype 2. Origin 3. Primary powerset 4. Secondary powerset When people talk about a full respec, they're either talking about the powersets or the whole enchilada. A Respec is short for respecification - altering what your character can do. This can be through reordering the levels you took powers, reassigning slots, and/or changing power pools. You'll note that none of this touches on changing the four listed items. The reason being that if any of those change, it's not the same character. A respec is not recreation or reimagining. It's tweaking your character a bit. Now, let's go through some of these "full respecs." Primary/Secondary You're sure to hear this repeated a good bit - Just because you've played one set, doesn't mean you know how to play them all. For instance, my namesake tank is a Fire/Superstrength tank. I know how he plays. The most similar powerset to him at the time of writing is Dark Armor. It's resistance based, it has no knockback protection, it has a damage aura, a self heal that does damage - it even has a self rez as its tier9. They don't play anything alike. (I can say this, because I also have a version that's DA/SS.) Fire has no Psi protection. It has no stealth. Burn has a far different effect than Oppressive Gloom, and nothing similar to Cloak of Fear. It calls for a thoroughly different style of play. With Fire, I can leave my toggles on and go to town. With Dark Armor, I have to be selective, or the times I have to herd stragglers (for instance) won't work exceptionally well. Dark Armor also does not have anything like Consume to help out with Endurance - that's in Dark Melee. With "similar" sets being that different - try Fire vs Stone. Or Invulnerability. You now have a set at or near 50 (when most people seem to mention wanting this - "I have a 50 that...") that you don't know how to slot effectively (which means you'll be doing *at least* one more respec) and don't know how to play effectively. That's just changing *one* side of the equation. Now add in, say, going from Stone Melee to Dark Melee. Different effects, with *very* different affects on your survivability. And you won't know how to slot that, either, or how well they synergize. Similarly, a Stormie plays vastly differently from an Empath, or a Dark, or a Rad. Earth Control is nothing like Illusion. Combo-chasing with Dual Blades won't help you with Martial Arts. How do I know that this ends up being a mess? Beta testing. The devs have, on rare occasion, bumped up characters to specific levels. The most notable was when Recluse's Victory came out for testing. Everyone was made level 40 - and it was a *mess.* Sure, people made copies of their own characters, and those worked out. Then there were those (many, many of those) who said "Hey, I've never had a X/Y before, I'll make one of those!" Like I said, it was a mess. You could very easily tell who had done that versus making copies of characters they knew. Now, yes, over time you'll learn your powerset - but in the meantime, you're not going to be very effective, or very happy. Archetype Now, given what I just said about powersets, imagine a *whole different AT.* Your tank is now an Empath? Really? You know how to survive as a Blaster because you played a Scrapper? And don't even get me started on epics. If *sets* are that different, Archetype is that times ten. Impact on enhancements IOs are a big part of the game right now. Think about IO'ing out your character. You get your KB protection, sets and the like, potentially spending millions (or more) on finishing up these sets, or working on merits or whatnot. Now, you change your primary - again, we'll take a tank - from a resistance based one to a defense based one. Guess what is now useless to you. You *may* have a power to stick that resist set in, somewhere, but now you're defense based - and those resist sets dont' work for you any more. That Knockback set isn't taken any more. It's even worse when you say you want to switch AT - what is a Blaster going to do with a resist set? What is a Scrapper going to do with Sting of the Manticore or Malaise's Illusions? This isn't even touching on the fact that *you could only retain ten enhancements.* That's 1 2/3 six-slotted powers. And you'd have nobody to blame for all that lost time and INF but yourself... Origin Origin holds a strange place in this list. I'm just going to touch on it briefly. Origin used to matter *vastly,* back in pre-beta. It determined how many powers you could learn and how skilled you could get with them. The system was scrapped, and for a long time it was mostly an RP item, as well as determining which enhancements you could use. It now has *some* impact in the game with some temp powers - the "helper" power you get at level 1 (throwing knives, taser, mutagen, etc.) as well as some of the vet powers. The main impact, though, would be if you'd equipped with DOs or SOs, with the lost INF. That said, you would be able to get some of it back. Origin's probably the least of the problems with a full respec. Though some would, of course, complain that they no longer get a damage bonus or what have you - and who knows what the devs may do with this in the future. Gameplay There are also two other things to consider. 1. The game is designed around alts. Seriously. If this were Guild Wars, for instance, with severely limited slots, I could see wanting to do a complete respec. But by default, you can make over 100 characters before feeling a pinch - and can purchase up to 24 additional slots per server, if you so choose. Don't like one set, make some others and try them out. 2. It's just not that hard to level. Seriously... it's not. With half debt inside missions, patrol XP, double XP weekends, XP smoothing, XP adjustments (typically up,) debt reduction everywhere... it just *isnt'* hard to level. And levelling "honestly" means you're learning your powersets, how they work with each other and others and hopefully how to use them best - which will only make you a stronger player. In closing, let me just say "No. Roll an alt." |
(Additional Reference)
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Suggestions are great, but not all suggestions are benefical. Aside from the fact you suggested it in the wrong forum, it's a suggestions that's been suggested in veriouse forms for almost 6 years now. And disreguared nearlly every time it's brought up. It's a dead hourse, and frankly, nothing you suggested is really NEW. It's been suggested before... ALOT. For 6 years now. The answer from the dev's for all that time has been no. Why do you think it's changed now? Because of Champions ? They KIND of allow it, but there game is fundomently different in how it works then this one. Apples and Oranges. Other then that, nothings changed, so way would the dev's change there mind, on a topics that already been beaten to death? |
Originally Posted by neoblayde
No is not an option
No = New Opportunities. Bash as much as you want suggestions to better the game should be look upon as a plus not flammed at start. The first concept of the notion was not good, as I quickly learned from the criticism. Hence it was revamped to address the prior issues. This is how new ideas come about to improve what we do, game. So how about some suggestions to better enhance the gameplay of the COX community and not a ton of unnecessary flaming. Let the Dev's tell me no and give a reason why personally, you are not the Developer. Perhaps the ways it was brought up in the past were not adequate and obviously so. Provide to me an adequate reasoning as to why this will not work and I will revamp the idea until it fits all. Thanks |
I bet they get asked this question nearly every single time they go to a game or comic con... and so far.. it's still no. I have a feeling it will always be no... but, well, i've been wrong before. *shrug*
Time will tell.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
Others have addressed the original question. I want to focus on this:
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I've seen similar thoughts expressed before, including one poster who explicitly said he intended to overstate something because "the squeaky wheel gets the oil."|
Originally Posted by neoblayde
the more we ask, beg and rebel for change to more apt it is to occur.
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This is a terrible precedent. The idea that whining, begging, and "rebelling" will get your way if you make a big enough fuss. Maybe it even works sometimes...but it sure does make things unpleasant for the rest of us while it's going on. And, since everyone has his or her own pet ideas, meaning there's a limitless supply of them, it will always be going on if people decide it works. What a whiny, exaggeration-filled world (and forum) THAT would be.
So for that reason alone, I would urge the Devs never to reply to any suggestion that threatens to rebel or kick up a fuss until it wins. Ugh.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
To play devils advocate, and just cause i had a few mins and i was bored...
If i were going to suggest it, a full respec concept, to the dev's, i'd have done it this way.
Lets use the comics to help us come up with an idea that fun, workable and unexploitable. In comic, it's very VERY rare for a hero's powers to be fundemently changed permently. I can't really think of many that have been switched FOR GOOD. So the effects of this suggestion is temepory, it's not perment. It's a story arch in which your hero/villian is fundemently changed at the start, for the duration of the story arch, and on compleation gets changed back. Set it up to be in a TF style instince, where you can't drop the missions or your revert back to your original powers. You also can't just take the mission and leave it hanging, once in TF mode you can't join teams and run other missions. Once you take the quest, your stuck with it till the end, or you have to quit to get out of it, either way resulting in you returning to your original powers. The contact and offer to sell you half price SO's. And you can only take the story arch at lvl 50. So in effect, you can test run, with SO's, a new set of powers for one lvl 50 story arch to see if your intrested in trying that power set. Then you go back to normal.
So, in effect, you get benefit of *testing* new powers. Hell, new AT's in geneal if you want, in an enviroment you shouldn't be able to exploit. You could even make the enmies have half the drop rates normal mobs to to prevent farming. *shrug* Make the mission repeatable. And there you have it. You can expearment to your hearts content, so long as you have the money to reslot each time, and if you find something you like, you still have to level it. It's story/driven and very comicbooky. Heck, have a few different versions of the missions... for each origin type.
Anything more or permenet then that is a no go IMO. *shrug*
It's be cool. but i'm not holding my breath. heh.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
Thank you for a positive responce!!
this is the direction we should be veering to, not a ton of, "i had my suggestions flamed so i am going to flame the crap out of the next schmuck" type of path.
i am glad someone decided to not nitpick every phrase and litterize it so they can flame every aspect of the post.
thank you.
so the concept could be generally the same but temporary in nature. that solves more issues that have been "stated".
lets see where we can take it from there
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It still does not solve the issue where the Devs have decided that for a player to be able to "test" how a power-set performs in its higher levels, the player has to commit to playing that power-set from Lv1 up.
Originally Posted by neoblayde
so the concept could be generally the same but temporary in nature. that solves more issues that have been "stated".
The most productive offer I can suggest to you is that you go into an AE building, and create AE missions with power-set combinations that you wish to explore. If you like what the enemies can do to you, odds are you're going to love what you can do to them with the same power-sets you've tested. That's the closest you're going to get at the moment.
Perhaps, one day, in the future (i.e. after Going Rogue goes live, maybe...) the Devs could be persuaded to let us enter AE and use AE to temporarily re-build our Lv50 character by using different power-sets within the same AT, and the temporary build will be functional in some sort of randomly generated mission the AE console will create for us. However, if you find you do like the temporary combination you've respeced into, you would still have to roll a new character and level it up from Lv1 just like everybody else would. That's the best compromise I can offer, and if THAT's the idea you suggest on the Suggestion Forum, that idea I can stand behind. 
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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THAT is an excellent ideas as well, great!! Now we are heading in a more productive path.|
Originally Posted by LordXenite
Perhaps, one day, in the future (i.e. after Going Rogue goes live, maybe...) the Devs could be persuaded to let us enter AE and use AE to temporarily re-build our Lv50 character by using different power-sets within the same AT, and the temporary build will be functional in some sort of randomly generated mission the AE console will create for us. However, if you find you do like the temporary combination you've respeced into, you would still have to roll a new character and level it up from Lv1 just like everybody else would. That's the best compromise I can offer, and if THAT's the idea you suggest on the Suggestion Forum, that idea I can stand behind. |
my goal here was not to make poeple angry but to come up with something... more.
Thank you
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I'm not sure i'd agree the dev's feel THIS way about it. Maybe i'm wrong, but i don't recall reading anything to this effect. That, is, you can't even test powers to see if you like them, you have got to level the build. I was always under the impression the dev's didn't want to allow build swaping for 2 reasons. The first being to avoid the, level an easy class, then switch into a harder, more effective class at the end. The other being to prevent people from having an all in one hero. Meaning alot of people would only play a small handful of heros instead of many. |
Originally Posted by LordXenite
[FONT="Verdana"]It still does not solve the issue where the Devs have decided that for a player to be able to "test" how a power-set performs in its higher levels, the player has to commit to playing that power-set from Lv1 up.
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Test driving a power set, IMO, isn't a bad idea. You still have to comitt to leveling one if you like and want one. But it could help avoid some frustrations, being able to see before you put alot of time and effort into a powerset you may end up hating. Limiting frustration IMO is always a good thing.
Either way. Frankly, i don't care. I enjoy the expearmenting. So it's no hair off my back either way.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
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If the Devs would've wanted us to be able to test power-sets straight at Lv50, all they need do is enable it on the Test Server, problem solved! The fact they've never done this demonstrates in my opinion, that allowing us to test power-sets without actually committing to playing them, isn't something the Devs ever wanted to allow.
Originally Posted by KingSnake
I'm not sure i'd agree the dev's feel THIS way about it.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
I'd have said yes to this a few years back, NeoBlayde, when it seemed like getting ot level 38 was way beyond my reach.
These days, I've been playing for 3 and a bit years, and have 16 level 50s I think, and to tell the truth, I'm kind of running our of powersets.
I haven't played Cold Domination, or Trick Arrow too much. Dual Blades probably has some uniqueness to offer me with its combo system, umm.. probably never will try Stone Armour, havent got an Illusionist to high levels yet. Theres quite a lot of villains stuff for me to explore still I guess, but I am running out.
If I'd been able to double up with most character I'd have loved this at the time, but burnt through the available content (and by that I mean playstyles for characters rather than misions) so much more quickly. I'd have paid the devs less money to do so, as has been pointed out, but I'd also probably not be playing still.
I've used dual builds once so far, to give one of my characters Ice and Fire powers through the Controller epics, and mostly just stuck to one build out of laziness.
Your idea is kind of cool in terms of backstory for some characters, but I've seen plenty of people do this by re-rolling their character from scratch with new powersets.
In short, new content can be consumed much more easily than it can be made. A new task force or story arc gets gulped down in hours, but each power set can last 100s of hours. I'm happy to keep it this way.
I'd love to go as far as swapping builds and say go from having a Regen secondary to a Invuln secondary, yet perhaps keep the primary set...
How many of us after making a Broadsword Regen would make a Broadsword Invuln sometime anyway? Are some secondaries better suited to PvP or not? You can go from the best PvE build of choice to PvP build of slightly better choice no?
Some option like that shouldn't be easy to obtain in some peoples eyes and something like that may to some people "hurt the game". I don't know. As long as the primaries are the same it's difficult to suggest that a character had to be learnt. I know that when inviting a defender, I am interested in them for their primary and with only an option to change the secondary you can't argue that someone wouldn't really know their toon would you?
Coupled with the unlikely idea of anyone who makes a Broadsword/X is very likely to go off and make a Broadsword/Y straight after. I doubt there is much money loss in changing a secondary.
I could be wrong but it is certainly something I would be interested in with my Broadsword character.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Others have addressed the original question. I want to focus on this:
I've seen similar thoughts expressed before, including one poster who explicitly said he intended to overstate something because "the squeaky wheel gets the oil." This is a terrible precedent. The idea that whining, begging, and "rebelling" will get your way if you make a big enough fuss. Maybe it even works sometimes...but it sure does make things unpleasant for the rest of us while it's going on. And, since everyone has his or her own pet ideas, meaning there's a limitless supply of them, it will always be going on if people decide it works. What a whiny, exaggeration-filled world (and forum) THAT would be. So for that reason alone, I would urge the Devs never to reply to any suggestion that threatens to rebel or kick up a fuss until it wins. Ugh. |
We agree!
Warmest Regards,
GDN, Burn Nerf, Aggro Cap, and Enhancement Diversification.
There are better people in worse shape....
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So a productive path is anyone who agrees with or supports your ideas, even if it's just slightly or partially?|
Originally Posted by neoblayde
THAT is an excellent ideas as well, great!! Now we are heading in a more productive path.
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And a non-productive path is anyone who critiques or disagrees with you?
Do you really think that making demands and (metaphorically) throwing tantrums counts as compelling logic that will get the Devs to reverse a stance they've held for over 5 years?
Your ideas intrigue me and i'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
I think they should just stick a 'bump to x level' trainer on the test server and hand out free IO sets (I hate trying out a respec on test when there are no IO's for sale!).
That way you can test whatever the hell you want to on test, and the more players go on test the more inadvertant testing gets done.
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British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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There's several big reasons why many of these test server ideas won't work. Here's two.|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I think they should just stick a 'bump to x level' trainer on the test server and hand out free IO sets (I hate trying out a respec on test when there are no IO's for sale!).
That way you can test whatever the hell you want to on test, and the more players go on test the more inadvertent testing gets done. |
The Test Server is the future Copy of the Live Server
Most Test Server Players Do Not Understand the Concept Of Beta
I don't think very many players understand just how complex City of Heroes is. A good case in point is the recent events with level 40 Paragon Protectors in Manticore's Task Force, and the Repairmen in Statesman's Task Force. These in-game bugs made completing the task forces very difficult, if not outright impossible for some teams. The bugs that caused these problems could have been fixed before they went to the Live server if Test-Server players had just been willing to run the various task forces.
Yet, because these particular bugs had already been addressed in a live patch, when I16 hit, players on the test server didn't want to go run the older content again. Of course, the level 40 Paragon Protector bug... was back.
Even more players commencing incidental testing is no good... if those players do not know what they are looking for.
Many of the bugs and regressions in I16 were caused by the developers changing background code that wasn't supposed to have a direct affect on what the players saw.
The empirical case in point was Statesman's Task Force. Theoretically, setting the difficulty to minus 1 would have simply set Lord Recluse and his minions on the final map at level 53... not 49.
This is where making test server only additions is a bad idea. Every time the developers go to copy from the test server to live... they'll have to take time to REMOVE OR DISABLE any test server specific content.
So if the developers were to set up a specific contact in Peregine Island who only sold cheap IO's and could bump you up by 5 level increments... every time the developers copied from test to live, somebody would have to go in and delete that data.
That means having to rework attachments to the leveling system. Rework attachments to the pricing system for store bought enhancements... everything.
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Basically, you can't set anything permanently different on test that is not going to go to Live without creating a whole new set of potential bugs and errors everytime that data is deleted in the Live Copy.
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Now then. I do think your idea actually has some merits, but I'm going to take a page from Guild Wars.
What if... what if you could do what players do in Guild Wars? What if, when you make a character, you get an Architect Entertainment auto 50 that you can slot from a limited set of basic enhancements on?
Or, better yet... what if AE control was extended to where players could decide on what slotting their NPC creations could use? And what if players were given the opportunity to "test" these new forms in an AE created mish?
Theoretically the code is already in the game to change an avatar's powers with forms... e.g. Kheldians.
This might be a workable solution for players to have an idea what an avatar will play like in a limited, de-powered setting, and also offer effective competition against somebody else's training room features.
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If this was done, who would play on the live servers?
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Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I think they should just stick a 'bump to x level' trainer on the test server and hand out free IO sets (I hate trying out a respec on test when there are no IO's for sale!).
That way you can test whatever the hell you want to on test, and the more players go on test the more inadvertant testing gets done. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Originally Posted by LordXenite
If the Devs would've wanted us to be able to test power-sets straight at Lv50, all they need do is enable it on the Test Server, problem solved! The fact they've never done this demonstrates in my opinion, that allowing us to test power-sets without actually committing to playing them, isn't something the Devs ever wanted to allow.
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Even if they didn't allow it in the past, with time, things change. The dev's would do well to be flexable in such reguards. Not that i think full respecing is a good idea, i don't, as a matter of fact, IMO, perement full respecing is a BAD idea imo.
But having an option to test powers, IMO, is a GOOD idea. It's one thing i really REALLY liked about CO, their powerhouse leveling system is great. I can't tell you how many times i was in there...playing around with different powers, before picking the one i though worked the best. Unlike here, where if you want to kind of sort of do the same thing you have to have the test center loaded on your system, updated, and copy your hero over, a few different times if you want to test more then one power, THEN test the powers... reloading your hero each time to try a different power.
Our system is a workaround. With, IMO, to many steps that also involve essecitally have 2 versions of the game loaded on your system at once... something some people prolly can't afford to do, (harddrive wise.) CO's is better. i'd like something like it for here. I'm hopeful for Going Rouge to have a danger room like test center. it's be cool IMO.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
The more I think about this, the more I think the answer lies right under our collective noses, and the answer is, AE. The same way we create our character, the Devs could let us create multiple Lv50 characters the live in AE only, and have any power-set combinations that are allowed by the game for any AT we choose, and spec them any way we like.
The only restrictions would be that these characters, since they are "virtual" and for self-exploration purposes only, cannot leave the AE environment, as in they cannot even set foot outside the Virtual Environment AE provides, and naturally they cannot team or engage in any of the in-game content.
In other words, the only thing we will be able to do with these characters is fight an endless stream of critters from different factions with different strengths and weaknesses so that we may learn which power-sets we'd like to focus on for our next "real" character, taking the real one from Lv1 to Lv50.
If we're given this system, I truly do not see the difference business-wise in where a person spends their time, in the AE, or the "real" game.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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I love it.. Players complain left & right that the servers are overloaded, laggy, they get locked out on 2xp, etc. Now, when the server hardware gets upgraded on the busiest servers, they complain that the servers aren't overloaded, laggy and locked out for 2xp.
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Originally Posted by neoblayde
the servers never got redlined, Freedom or Virtue. i played from friday to monday only taking short breaks and a few naps and the servers never went red. last 2xp if you logged out you had to wait at least 30 min to log back in because the servers we full. last 2xp i played on triumph because my main server was full most most of the time.
teams are harder to find mid lvl than a few months back because there arent as many people online. yesturday during peak times there were 8 people in PO on vills freedom server. |
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Welcome to the internet, where people will complain about everything! Even things that result in fixing the problem that they just complained about!
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
I love it.. Players complain left & right that the servers are overloaded, laggy, they get locked out on 2xp, etc. Now, when the server hardware gets upgraded on the busiest servers, they complain that the servers aren't overloaded, laggy and locked out for 2xp.
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Ok so now with all the criticism and suggestion I have revamped this again to look as follows. Let me know what you think
New AE Contact in AE buildings
*****
AE Technical Build Specialist
Welcome, I am the AE Build Technical Specialist.
As the build specialist will maintain AE environment content by allowing the building and testing of current powerset libraries we maintain here at AE. I will assist you in maintaining and verifying the proper configuration of your build models. I will also assist you by allowing you to slot single origin enhancements for your convenience. I will be your expert advice on assisting you to build a character to support success of the team. It is important you demonstrate sufficient attention to detail. You will work closely with both me and AE personnel to accomplish your goals of becoming the ultimate build for your play style, it is essential that you will be able to demonstrate superior teamwork for the good of your teams.
If you wish I will allow you to select up to 4 accomplishes to assist you in your AE build experience. (This is for solo playing, being allowed to select 4 allies computer controlled. So if you are playing as a defender you can practice buffs, heals, ect)
What can I assist you with today?
Create a New Build
Nothing at the Moment
*****
This contact will allow you to experiment other builds inside AE only. This could be used for the new Going Rouge so heroes can test villain builds and villains can test hero builds or you can test whichever you like. If the option needs to be incorporated for some reason, the AE archetype builder will only allow you to build up to your current level.
This concept should not be able to be exploited and if a player wants to actually play the build they have to go from 1 50.
Any spins on this idea?
I pay for the game, buy perks and upgrads, therefore contributing to the Paycheck that makes the Devs keep working and the Game continue to operate.
I didnt say they owed me anything..
This idea will not cut down on the time players play the game if it is a vet reward. instead it will encourage more players strive to achieve a high ranked vet status.
This reward is not a complete build respec it is for one set only. You have to play to 32 to obtain it and have high ranking vet status.
A lot of builds I would like to play but going from level 1 to level 50 with it just to test it out isnt feasable to me. If I feel that way then chances are statistically speaking that others will to.
It is an option only available one time to a build. so you arent constantly respecing to test all the sets so after you have done so you quit the game. which is what seems to be the issue here.
I would play more build types if i didnt have start from scratch just to try a new secondary or primary. besides that a vast majority of your time spent in the game is from levels 32 - 50 anyway.
if the powerswap is really that bad of a suggestion then what about the additional enhancement slots under this same concept?
like i previosly posted i am new to the forum aspect, i didnt see a spot for suggestions, just general discussions. so why dont you point me in the right direction of this forum post please.
thanks