Let's talk Rularuu (spoilers)


Anti_Proton

 

Posted

Yeah, it's that time again. Let's try and bring some sense to the Shadow Shard, what it is, how it came to be, and who or what "Rularuu" actually is. Why now? I did the Justin Augustine TF a few days ago, and I'm still not sure what I learned from it. Now, I've done the Fr. Quaterfield TF (which seems to be pointless) the Justine Augstine TF (which is about Faatim), and the Faatim TF (which is about Lanaruu, though I did that five years ago). I have not done the Sarah Moore TF, so I've no idea what turths it uncovers.

What is the Shadow Shard? An alternate dimension, obviously, but not just a normal one. A City of Villains mission that sends you to the Shadow Shard (one of Nylor's missions, I think) has the following entry message: "It's like being in the mind of a god." Given how heavy-handed these suggestive entry messages are ("The heat here is infernal!" upon entering the PTS. No! Really?), that brings up an interesting possibility - what if it IS the mind of a god? It is populated and ruled by the many aspects of Rularuu, and though I've seen models for Rularuu the Raveger, there certainly are a few suggestions that Rularuu may be CoH's take on something like either the Beyonder or the Anti-Monitor.

It is a physical place, however, that much is certain. After all, we walk on it. Lacking any apparent "bottom," however, there is some doubt as to how real that actually is. We know the world was "broken" by Lanaruu when his madness overcame him, but we don't actually have a good idea as to what the world was before that. We don't really know if it was a planet at all, or if the whole place was some sort of weird Milk Man Conspiracy construct of abstract though.

We do know that the higher creatures we see are aspects of Rularuu, specifically emotions, it seems. Faatim is kindness, Ruladak is strength and Lanaruu madness. At least, he is madness now. Purportedly, he went mad, and may have been something else before. Defiance, maybe? We know WHY he went mad - he could not take being part of Rularuu and always subservient to his mind. It is not clear whether Lanaruu broke the world out of spite with his own power, whether his battle with Rularuu tore the world apart, or whether him simply splitting off broke the fabric of reality itself. The breaking is blamed on him, but the method by which it happens is never explained.

The "floating fortresses" likely play a part in the whole thing. When Faatim sought to distance himself from Rularuu, he hid within the Chantry, presumably to cut himself off. His doing so seems to have brought Rularuu out of balance, eventually inciting Lanaruu to go mad. Whether this freed Lanaruu to rebel in turn, or whether Faatim's betrayal simply impaired the link between the different aspects of Rularuu isn't clear, however. We do know that Lanaruu, in turn, built his own fortress of madness, the Storm Palace, and we do know the Soldiers of Rularuu are attacking him, as well as keeping Faatim confined within his Chantry.

But then there are the Soldiers of Rularuu, as well. What are they? As the name suggests, perhaps just... Well, soldiers of Rularuu, but according to Justin, it seems like the people were told to worship Rularuu, but not the creatures called Soldiers of Rularuu, themselves. I'm not even sure what they are and where they come from. They could be just veritable figment (or censors, if you will) keeping the mind that is Rularuu in check, or some kind of nightmarish abominations that escaped when the aspects of Rularuu separated and began fracturing the overmind.

We do know the creatures collect the Kora fruit, but we don't know why. We suspect the Koira fruit is what keeps the people of the Shard healthy and fit, but we don't know how. We don't even know what the Kora is, outside of beneficial, but then we don't know what the point of aim of the Soldiers of Rularuu actually is. We do know they are constantly trying to push through into other dimensions, aggressively, almost instinctively, but we don't know why. What do they hope to achieve?

And what of the people here? They speak English, they seem like they came from Paragon City, and Faatim talks about how he tried to create a haven for them when the first portals opened. He failed, but the point remains that it seems like people from Paragon City, or at least an alternate Earth, went to the Shadow Shard long before Portal Corp set up their own portals. We know Crey are working on their own portals and Nemesis has his own, apparently an original design. However, the Circle of Thorns seem to have an entirely non-technological, and potentially much older means to travel through dimensions. In fact, they seem to be offering passage to demons, if I red the clues right, to come into the Shadow Shard. They are also trying to bind Faatim the Kind, speaking as though they've done it before.

I'm just not quite sure I can tie all this together in any way. Who is Rularuu? Why is he called "The Ravager?" Why are aspects of his mind ruling the Shard as gods? What was the Shard before Lanaruu broke it, and why hasn't it dispersed in the vacuum of space? Why are people supposed to worship Rularuu, yet not worship Rularuu? And why does Darryn Wayde want to bring him "into the here and now?" The Midnighter lore seems to suggest he was somehow locked within the Shard (even though that doesn't preclude him being locked in his own mind), but if so, was he ever on Earth? And why?

I'd be very intrigued by all of these questions, because the mystery of the Shadow Shard and Rularuu is truly an interesting, enamouring story, but I'm more angry at how little detail exists to answer all of these questions. We have all of four TFs which are almost entirely filler and don't give any answers, anyway. And given the game's track record, it doesn't seem like we'll ever actually get any more information. And this is, potentially, the most interesting part of the game's lore Could that be part of the Coming Storm? I certainly hope so, because the Shard has had exactly ZERO fleshing out in the five years it's been in the game. At this point, I'd settle for something, anything, as long as it's progress.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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I've done all the TFs, love them.

From what I've gathered, Rularuu IS a God, from outside "our" world. He attempted to "ravage" our world at some point, and the psychics of the Midnighter's Club shattered his mind, turned him against himself, and bound him to another reality. Now being a PSYCHOTIC with all the powers of a God, he TURNED that other dimension INTO the shattered world of the Shadow Shard, bringing into that world both aspects of his own psyche (Lanaruu, Ruladak, etc. and the Soldiers) along with "Shadows" of those that he's seen in OUR world, (i.e. the Reflections).

Since he IS a being of god-like power, he can manifest these into the reality of that dimension, making is imaginings real. The Portal Corporation figured out HOW to get us into the Shadow Shard that the Midnighter's banished Rularuu into, and the Midnigher's aren't talking to anyone about it. They seem just happy and thrilled that Rularuu's mind is shattered, even if it has essentially destroyed another dimension. Because as long as his mind is shattered, he'll never have the wits to threaten OUR world again.

At least that's what I've gotten from all the TFs AND all the Midnighter's arcs that I've run. I'm sure I've messed something up here or there, but that seems to be the gist of it.


 

Posted

Ah, here you go. Looks like I was right about most of it.


 

Posted

A while back I was making a character from the Shadow Shard and did a pretty thorough dig through the relevant lore. This is a summary of what I found:

Sometime in the 1960's, Rularuu, who eats dimensions, enters the CoX prime dimension with intent to eat it. Before he can get a proper start, he is banished by the Midnight Squad. The place they banish him to is the Shadow Shard, a "prison dimension". At this time, the Shadow Shard is not yet blown to pieces. Along with Rularuu, the Midnighters also send a number of hapless civilians to the Shadow Shard. These become the first Shard Natives. Everyone is surprisingly cool with this, possibly because the Midnighters kept it on the down-low.

(Incidentally, Sara Moore claims to be the granddaughter of two such people. She appeared to be in her late teens or early 20s in 2004, when the zone opened. The chronology for this is a little weird when you think about it.)

Rularuu divided into several aspects to administer his prison, because this is always a great plan. Most notable of these were Ruladak, the Natives' taskmaster; Faathim, who tended to their needs; and Lanaru, who was Rularuu's executioner. Both Faathim and Lanaru strayed away from Rularuu's control: Faathim created the impervious Chantry within which he was able to hide from Rularuu's will, while Lanaru created the Storm Palace and was driven insane by his servitude to Rularuu.

What happened next is somewhat ambiguous - either Faathim tried to convince Lanaru to be reasonable, or tricked him into shattering the Shadow Shard. Either way, Lanaru broke the Shadow Shard into the cloud of floating rocks it is now, and then retreated into the Storm Palace. After this, Faathim informed the Shard natives they were now free from Rularuu's control. Ruladak accused Faathim of engineering the catastrophe and attacked him. Faathim trapped Ruladak behind four magic seals, and was then in turn imprisoned within his own Chantry by a horde of Rularuu soldiers. This kind of sucked for the natives.

(Incidentally, Old Fred, encountered in the Sara Moore TF, says that these events happened "when he was just old enough to remember", but also perhaps 15 or 20 years ago. Since Old Fred appears to be in his late 60s or early 70s, something weird is going on here, too.)

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the Shard, Nemesis had discovered a way to gain entrance to the prison dimension. He used the Shard as a location for a secret base, where he prepared the deception that led to the Rikti War - which means that he has been in the Shard since well before the first Rikti invasion. Let me reemphasize: Nemesis discovered a way to enter the prison dimension of a godlike marauder who eats entire realities, and his first thought was "This will be the perfect place for me to hide a base from which I can start an interdimensional war." Let it never be forgotten: the man has giant brass balls. Possibly literally.

Fast forward to 2004:

- Portal Corporation discovers the Shadow Shard. Oddly, the Midnight Squad does not immediately send them a polite letter suggesting that they not touch that. Instead, Portal Corp consults with the UN, which puts together a scientific and military expedition into the Shadow Shard.
- Said expedition is quickly beset by weird and horrible creatures and withdraws to a shielded zone by the entrance portal and a few embattled forward bases, then asks heroes for help. Heroes respond with appropriate enthusiasm.
- Many Shard natives are evacuated to their long-lost homeland Paragon City, which they last saw lo these 40 or so years ago. Sara Moore stays behind to make sure the remaining natives get out safely and certainly not because Lt. Col. Flynn sets her heart aflutter.
- Nemesis sells Shadow Shard portal tech to Crey Corporation, because Crey wants to go to the Shard for... some... reason.
- Uuralur says "oo, new toys" and creates shadow duplicates of all of them.
- Lanaru sulks in the Storm Palace and is occasionally kicked around by heroes.
- Faathim hides in the Chantry and is occasionally harassed by CoT.
- Ruladak sulks behind his magic seals and is occasionally almost released by Nemesis generals in an astounding error of judgment, unless of course it's all a Nemesis you-know-what.
- Chularn, Kuularth, and Aloore are conspicuous in their absence.
- Darrin Wade plots to release Rularuu from his prison using knickknacks that villains steal from the Midnight Club by disguising themselves as hordes of Alistair McKnights.
- A mysterious man with a silly hairstyle warns heroes of a "Coming Storm". Many people expect Rularuu to be involved. Many more expect a Nemesis you-know-what. Very few expect the Roman Space Nazis.

As to your ideas, it's distinctly possible that the Shadow Shard did not exist before Rularuu's banishment, and may be entirely composed of Rularuu folded in on himself. Certainly its geography is strongly linked to the state of Rularuu's psyche, although whether that's because it's a reflection of his mind or because he's a powerful enough reality warper to make anyplace he's in become a reflection of his mind is not clear.

In fact, there's a lot about the Shadow Shard that's not clear. Some of the evidence seems to suggest that the Shard is thousands of years old - the stone monuments written in a mishmash of dead languages, for instance - and others suggest that the Shard is a very new creation, such as Sara Moore being a third-generation immigrant and Old Fred having actually witnessed the sundering of the world at the hands of Lanaru. I wouldn't mind seeing the Shard revitalized and made a bigger part of the game, but I think it'd need a considerable editing pass first.

Kora's an easy one though. It's a fruit that is massively nutritious, incorporating exactly the right balance of carbohydrates, proteins, and trace elements to sustain human beings. Why are they that way? Probably because Rularuu wills it - if he wants his human captives to worship and obey him, he needs them to eat to stay alive. Why are they guarded by vicious monsters? Probably because Rularuu is a jerk - he only wants those who worship and obey him to have it, and the human natives led by Sarah Moore definitely do not.

Incidentally, growing up in the Shard would do some funny things to you. For one thing, it's always day there, illuminated by immobile suns. Imagine what that would do to your perception of time, and how you'd feel about night on Primal Earth.


@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs

 

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- Uuralur says "oo, new toys" and creates shadow duplicates of all of them.
Uuralur the mirror is master of the Guarden of Reflections. Based on the various texts floating around the Shadow Shard Reflections may or may not be from our world. Some suggest that they may be memories of other dimentions that Rularuu has already devoured and are kept as a memento of the lost worlds.

This actually fits well into the shard being the mind of Rularuu.


As to the lore, I remember reading about the Shard being created to trick Rularuu. He came for our Paragon but saw the shard, created by the Midnight Squad, and went there only to be trapped.

There is also an interesting quote about the Dream Doctor being related to Rularuu in some form. Can't find it at the moment, being at work behind a scary firewall.


 

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Originally Posted by Calash View Post
There is also an interesting quote about the Dream Doctor being related to Rularuu in some form. Can't find it at the moment, being at work behind a scary firewall.
It's here:

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Why I Left and Why You Must Stay

by the Dream Doctor
Hopefully, when you read this, my name is not forgotten. I don't know why that's so important to me. I guess after all I've seen, a part of me is still human. I wonder if the same can be said for my counterpart, Rularuu.
As I used the blade, I shaved off a piece of myself. I am not the same man anymore. I still work among you - looking for answers. But I've also begun searching in the dreamspace for a way to protect you, and the rest of the world, from a fate that grows closer with each passing day. Something is coming and I must find out what it is before it's too late.
I have never been afraid to ask for help. If you remember anything about me, please remember that. But this...this is something I must do on my own. I'm going to try and save the world... again. But by all means, don't let that stop you from trying to save it first.
-The Dream Doctor


Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)

 

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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan View Post
Sometime in the 1960's, Rularuu, who eats dimensions, enters the CoX prime dimension with intent to eat it. Before he can get a proper start, he is banished by the Midnight Squad. The place they banish him to is the Shadow Shard, a "prison dimension". At this time, the Shadow Shard is not yet blown to pieces. Along with Rularuu, the Midnighters also send a number of hapless civilians to the Shadow Shard. These become the first Shard Natives. Everyone is surprisingly cool with this, possibly because the Midnighters kept it on the down-low.
Why do these things always come to Earth to try and consume the universe? Is this some kind of "If Mohammed can't go to the mountain, the mountain will come to Mohhamed." thing where because humans can't travel through space and go to where evil occurs, evil has to come to Earth so it can be beaten? Why not pop into the middle of empty space and consume the dimension from there? Or if you need a planet, why not show up on an uninhabited one? Rularuu certainly doesn't strike me as someone who needs sunlight and air to survive (begging the question why those are present in the Shard, but that's besides the point).

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Rularuu divided into several aspects to administer his prison, because this is always a great plan. Most notable of these were Ruladak, the Natives' taskmaster; Faathim, who tended to their needs; and Lanaru, who was Rularuu's executioner. Both Faathim and Lanaru strayed away from Rularuu's control: Faathim created the impervious Chantry within which he was able to hide from Rularuu's will, while Lanaru created the Storm Palace and was driven insane by his servitude to Rularuu.
Here's the thing, though - a lot of what the reflections and aspects say and, in turn, what the natives have picked up, is figurative and symbolic. We know that the different aspects are aspects of the whole that is Rularuu, but we don't have a good idea as to whether Rularuu himself split up, whether he created these things in addition to himself, or whether the whole thing is one huge hive mind thinking itself in circles. Given how they look and talk, it's easy to assume they're different people, all slaves to the 100-foot-tall guy, but there's something Faatim says - "I am Rularuu." He doesn't say "an aspect of," doesn't say "a slave of," he says he plain and simple IS Rularuu, as are all the other aspects.

Did Rularuu, then, split himself up into his different aspects like a cut-price MegaMan boss, or are we just getting to see the different aspects that make up his full being? There was some talk years ago of the aspects actually been creatures from the dimensions Rularuu has taken, enslaved to serve as his aspects, but again Faatim seems to contradict this. In a sense, it seems to me that, like Maros can see all of the timeline at once, rather than just one specific moment, so all of the aspects ARE Rularuu, and their struggle represents the turmoil that goes on in his own head.

Certainly if we look at this as symbolism (and I hate symbolism, but "in the mind of a god..."), kindness attempted to do something good, but rage rose up and stopped it. And at this battle, madness finally rebelled, unable and unwilling to exist with such conflict and oppression. In finally attaining full power, madness shattered the world, and now the aspects exist almost separate of each other. In a sense, it's almost as if a conflict of emotions gives birth to madness, and madness then destroys the mind.

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Let it never be forgotten: the man has giant brass balls. Possibly literally.
You win!

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As to your ideas, it's distinctly possible that the Shadow Shard did not exist before Rularuu's banishment, and may be entirely composed of Rularuu folded in on himself. Certainly its geography is strongly linked to the state of Rularuu's psyche, although whether that's because it's a reflection of his mind or because he's a powerful enough reality warper to make anyplace he's in become a reflection of his mind is not clear.
It could be both. It's possible the Midnighter Club just picked some strange dimension that could contain him, locked him up in there and he's been altering it ever since. However, since he consumes dimensions, either this one has to be VERY special to prevent him from either travelling out or consuming it, or it's more likely that he is somehow himself inhibited from doing so. Enter the Aspects of Rularuu. What broke the world? Madness fighting against Rularuu. What sealed strength? Kindness, acting against will. It is quite possible that what's keeping Rularuu sealed is keeping him separate, confused between his aspects, in eternal war against himself, and so unable to actually pull himself together (SORRY!) and break out.

Again, this doesn't answer the question whether it's a physical place altered by him, or if it IS him folding in on himself and trapped within his own mind. The many aspects of his personality sharing the dimension with the ACTUAL Rularuu the Raveger sort of hints at this. It's a common theme in "exploring your own mind stories" to have the protagonist enter his own mind and face the different aspects of his personality from a third-person perspective while still retaining his FULL personality intact for the journey. It's quite possible Rularuu is somehow thrust into his own mind, trying to sort out his own aspects, which is what's keeping him from using the dimension-warping powers he clearly has.

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In fact, there's a lot about the Shadow Shard that's not clear. Some of the evidence seems to suggest that the Shard is thousands of years old - the stone monuments written in a mishmash of dead languages, for instance - and others suggest that the Shard is a very new creation, such as Sara Moore being a third-generation immigrant and Old Fred having actually witnessed the sundering of the world at the hands of Lanaru. I wouldn't mind seeing the Shard revitalized and made a bigger part of the game, but I think it'd need a considerable editing pass first.
Something to note about this, though. When talking about these, Justin says the languages are LIKE those he's familiar with, only not really. He can sort of read them kind of like they were a different language, but they clearly aren't.

If we subscribe to the Rularuu as a prisoner idea, then chances are the world is VERY old indeed, and Rularuu was just recently imprisoned there. The monuments could have survived the shattering, but since they talk ABOUT the shattering, it's possible they're just manifestations of Rularuu's own memories. Why they're written in weird languages probably has to do with either all the dimensions he's consumed, or all the reflections that populate his world, with him thinking THAT is human speech.

On the other hand, if we subscribe to the Rularuu trapped in his own mind idea, then the dimension would be as old as Rularuu himself, with these writings representing his memories as things happened, written down into the very world he's inhabiting.

Then again, you have a point - the whole place feels like it's ancient, and the way the aspects talk, it feels like they've been alive for thousands of years. The monuments themselves look like they're ancient. Not just old, but actually ancient. And here's another thing - everything... Literally EVERYTHING that there is to see and read in the Shadow Shard has to do with Rularuu. Even if it's not true in the physical sense, in that the floating islands are just rock, the whole place still IS Rularuu, because there is literally nothing else.

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Kora's an easy one though. It's a fruit that is massively nutritious, incorporating exactly the right balance of carbohydrates, proteins, and trace elements to sustain human beings. Why are they that way? Probably because Rularuu wills it - if he wants his human captives to worship and obey him, he needs them to eat to stay alive. Why are they guarded by vicious monsters? Probably because Rularuu is a jerk - he only wants those who worship and obey him to have it, and the human natives led by Sarah Moore definitely do not.
Here's the thing, though - the Soldiers of Rularuu don't eat the fruit. They don't just guard it (originally, they didn't guard it at all, but people farmed it, so...), they collect it. But what would they need it for if not to eat? To feed someone? Who? All the aspects seem like they're either stark raving mad or completely powerless.

Anyway, I always enjoy these discussions about the Shard. The place has a lot of potential for interesting storylines.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Calash View Post
There is also an interesting quote about the Dream Doctor being related to Rularuu in some form. Can't find it at the moment, being at work behind a scary firewall.
Since I can't quote the quote (easily) I'll quote your mention of it.

Here's something interesting, both about the name of the Dream Doctor and about the things he says. He talks about the dreamspace, and shaving a piece off himself, not unlike how an aspect can be shaved off the whole and lead to madness, if we buy into that theory. But the thing is, it makes sense. If we believe that Rularuu is trapped within his own mind, a master of dreams would be the perfect man to do this. And, really, what prison can hold a ravager of dimensions with such cosmic powers, but the prison of his own mind, where his own power is keeping him trapped?

It makes sense to me, at least.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Hey Sam....

*points at his avatar*

Now go. Hunt. Kill Rulruz.


 

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Originally Posted by Westley View Post
Ah, here you go. Looks like I was right about most of it.
Not THAT one, use the Titan link or www.Paragonwiki.com

Twice this week I've seen the wikia crap page redirect to some trojan-esque auto-malware site. Plus, well...they suck.


There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Since I can't quote the quote (easily) I'll quote your mention of it.

Here's something interesting, both about the name of the Dream Doctor and about the things he says. He talks about the dreamspace, and shaving a piece off himself, not unlike how an aspect can be shaved off the whole and lead to madness, if we buy into that theory. But the thing is, it makes sense. If we believe that Rularuu is trapped within his own mind, a master of dreams would be the perfect man to do this. And, really, what prison can hold a ravager of dimensions with such cosmic powers, but the prison of his own mind, where his own power is keeping him trapped?

It makes sense to me, at least.
My question is who thought it was a good idea to create a portal to the Shard in the first place? I think the Aspects are similar to the Infinity Gems, they are just waiting for someone to figure out how to get them to work in unison again...under control of course.


"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Since I can't quote the quote (easily) I'll quote your mention of it.

Here's something interesting, both about the name of the Dream Doctor and about the things he says. He talks about the dreamspace, and shaving a piece off himself, not unlike how an aspect can be shaved off the whole and lead to madness, if we buy into that theory. But the thing is, it makes sense. If we believe that Rularuu is trapped within his own mind, a master of dreams would be the perfect man to do this. And, really, what prison can hold a ravager of dimensions with such cosmic powers, but the prison of his own mind, where his own power is keeping him trapped?

It makes sense to me, at least.
Hmmm... that's an interesting corralary, given recent Canon Fodder:

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Question: Where is Pocket D located?
Answer: Technically Pocket D is located everywhere and nowhere. Everywhere because DJ Zero can punch a dimensional door through to any location from Pocket D. Nowhere because Pocket D is a self-contained pocket dimension created from nothing by DJ Zero using his ability to manipulate the space-time continuum. Contrary to opinion, Pocket D is not part of the Shadow Shard.
Even though Pocket D is not part of the Shadow Shard, it looks similar, and was created by the force of will of a superpowered being. Perhaps this is more than just coincidence? Perhaps the Dream Doctor (or a part of him) still lies within the Shard, just as DJ Zero is within Pocket D?

Edit: And what does the Dream Doctor mean by saying the Rularuu is his "counterpart?" Are they contractually tied to each other? Is Rularuu part of the Dream Doctor? Or are they different version of the same being from different dimensions? Are we talking about Counterpart Theory? Is Rularuu really a Dream Doctor from another dimension, but empowered by devoured dimensions?


 

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I only ventured into the Shadow Shard for the first time last night. I found it weird and exciting. It's a very cool place and reading all this just makes it moreso.

I'm with Sam. I hope they expand on it sooner or later. But I also wouldn't be surprised if the Devs consider it complete as-is. It is a bit of a mystery as to what it really is and it could be the Midnighters don't really know either as it was the now missing Dream Doctor who literally thought the trap up (possibly using a sliver of his own being to do it?).

How many times have we heard that the best way to defeat a stronger opponent is to turn his own strength against him? It sounds like that is what has happened here.


 

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Oi, Manticore, any answers coming?
Or is that gonna be a 'Soon'(tm)?


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Here's the thing, though - the Soldiers of Rularuu don't eat the fruit. They don't just guard it (originally, they didn't guard it at all, but people farmed it, so...), they collect it. But what would they need it for if not to eat? To feed someone? Who? All the aspects seem like they're either stark raving mad or completely powerless.
Here's my Epileptic Tree theory on the Kora fruit:

Note that the Kora, although it appears to be a plant, apparently grows only in caves--dry, rocky caves, at that. Such a situation is not conducive to plant growth; there's little or no water, no sunlight, and very limited nutrients. Yet somehow they produce fruit so nutritious that it sustains the natives and noticeably increases the effectiveness of superpowers. Where does it get the means to do that?

I submit that the Kora is not a plant in itself; it is, instead, the fruiting body of the Hortha vines, those mysterious hyperdimensional plants that link distant parts of the Shard together. The fruiting bodies sprout in sheltered places, and receive nutrients via tiny, invisible dimensional channels from the main bodies of the vines, which in turn feed on energy currents between different regions of the Shard*.

The Soldiers guard and collect the fruit because they need mature fruit to plant to more Hortha vines, which they can cultivate to link in currently inaccessible areas, like the Garden of Memories and the Factory Cubes. Clearly it's possible for some creatures to reach those regions, since the Reflections and Wisps appear in the zones we know, but that doesn't mean it's easy. The sheer distance (physical or metaphysical) between the four Hortha-linked areas and the unlinked areas may be part of what's keeping Rularuu in check; the tenuous connections with the Aspects that dwell there make it more difficult for Rularuu to pull himself together.

In other words, the Kora is essential to Rularuu's eventual restoration, which would be a Bad Thing. So....

Go. Farm. Eat Kora.

*Edited to add: The portals added to link Firebase Zulu to the other zones are interfering with the Hortha vines' ecosystem, which is why current Kora fruit harvests are less potent than they once were.


The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.

 

Posted

Bery good points!

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Originally Posted by Obsidius View Post
Even though Pocket D is not part of the Shadow Shard, it looks similar, and was created by the force of will of a superpowered being. Perhaps this is more than just coincidence? Perhaps the Dream Doctor (or a part of him) still lies within the Shard, just as DJ Zero is within Pocket D?
DJ Zero is kind of the low-key reality warper of Paragon City. He has his own pocket dimension he apparently carved out of nothing (which seems to be a task of cosmic proportions) and who has enough power to punch through to maintain that dimension AND punch through to any section of the world he chooses. We tend to ignore him because, well... He's just a DJ and all he does with his power is run a night club. But the power he has, I suspect, is FAR greater than he's letting on. Look at how he does things. He needs Snaptooth dealt with, so he simply opens up a portal (to Villa Requin, for some reason) like he's flipping open his jacket.

Now, I could weave conspiracy theories about a possible link between the Dream Doctor and DJ Zero, either in terms of that "piece" he left of himself or as a hidden identity, but I won't do that. Idle speculation isn't interesting. Instead, let me say this - the powers DJ zero demonstrates could, at least theoretically, be used to trick an omniscient being into an alternate dimension created specifically to trap him in a dream. Even if Rularuu then proceeds to devour the dimension, he is still trapped in his own mind and unable to escape. A dimension bender, to borrow a term, would be ideal for fighting a dimension ravager. In fact...

Quote:
Edit: And what does the Dream Doctor mean by saying the Rularuu is his "counterpart?" Are they contractually tied to each other? Is Rularuu part of the Dream Doctor? Or are they different version of the same being from different dimensions? Are we talking about Counterpart Theory? Is Rularuu really a Dream Doctor from another dimension, but empowered by devoured dimensions?
This may well be why the Dream Doctor considers himself a counterpart to Rularuu. If they are both dimension benders, then it makes sense. Of course, Rularuu travels between dimensions, destroying them, whereas the Dream Doctor may well be able to create them. Let's think abstract for a second. I trust we've all seen the idea about the dream world at some time or another, as well as that idea expanded to suggest that each time a person dreams, he creates his own, unique, separate world where the dreams actually take place. It's easy to extend this logic, then, to a Dream Doctor who fancies himself a counterpart of a being whose primary occupation is destroying dimensions.

I'm obviously blindly guessing here, but it's an interesting prospect - what if it's possible to create entire alternate dimensions just by creating a dream. It's off-the-wall, obviously, but it would actually fit the circumstances. If he crafted an entirely new dimension to trap Rularuu inside his own dream in a dimension where his dimension bending wouldn't work, then that... Whole mess of random thoughts might actually string itself together into something that seems to make sense.

Of course, I'm certain that the story bible has a much simpler, much less abstract explanation, but I actually kind of like the notion of an entire dimension consisting of the mind of a god, trapped inside his own mind, watching it tear itself apart into madness and disarray, unable to do anything because his very mind is out of his hands.

*edit*
Man, I should really start writing more focused and less sappy stories again... I miss that freedom to make up utter nonsense and still retain logical flow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Let's also not forget that Akarist muses that the Shadow Shard seems like "the dream of a sleeping god".

I always saw the Shadow Shard as less of a "oops, the Midnight Squad sucked half of downtown in with Rularuu" and more "the Midnight Squad outright created a shadow copy of Paragon City to lure Rularuu in".

I mean, if you've ever played Riven, you trap the villain by offering him a way off his own crummy little world and back home by giving him a device made to look like it points home...except it instead leads to a dead-end prison world.

While it would add some intrigue for the Midnight Squad to have blood on their hands, there's never been any mention of a great disaster/disappearance back in the 60s.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balanced View Post
Note that the Kora, although it appears to be a plant, apparently grows only in caves--dry, rocky caves, at that. Such a situation is not conducive to plant growth; there's little or no water, no sunlight, and very limited nutrients. Yet somehow they produce fruit so nutritious that it sustains the natives and noticeably increases the effectiveness of superpowers. Where does it get the means to do that?
I absolutely love the theory, but I believe the introductory mission for Kora states they're fed by the red waters of the Cascade Archipelago.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanTheM1 View Post
I absolutely love the theory, but I believe the introductory mission for Kora states they're fed by the red waters of the Cascade Archipelago.
Sure...but does it say how those waters get there, all the way from another zone?

(And that's assuming they actually know the secrets of the Kora--isn't that why we're gathering it for the researcher?)


The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.

 

Posted

All this talk reminds me of Malfeas in Exalted (yay, bringing another IP in!)

* Malfeas is both prisoner and prison
* The prisoners (Yozi princes) are composed of multiple souls, each with their own personalities and to some extent, agendas
* The lesser inhabitants are all basically a part of the Yozis themselves

Anyway, this makes the idea of the Shadow Shard actually being Rularuu (as well as Rularuu being trapped inside) an interesting notion, but I kind of wonder if maybe the Shadow Shard is the Dream Doctor keeping him contained?


Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene View Post
All this talk reminds me of Malfeas in Exalted (yay, bringing another IP in!)

* Malfeas is both prisoner and prison
* The prisoners (Yozi princes) are composed of multiple souls, each with their own personalities and to some extent, agendas
* The lesser inhabitants are all basically a part of the Yozis themselves

Anyway, this makes the idea of the Shadow Shard actually being Rularuu (as well as Rularuu being trapped inside) an interesting notion, but I kind of wonder if maybe the Shadow Shard is the Dream Doctor keeping him contained?
Chances are, the explanation is a lot simpler than we want to think. It usually is in these stories, which is honestly kind of disappointing to me, usually. Kind of like The Force in Star Was being Morticoccus or some such. I LOVE the idea of Rularuu being both a prisoner and a prison, along with all this entails, but I highly suspect he'll end up being just another sorta-god trapped in another dimension. The Shard has enormous potential for some very interesting stories, and I very, very much hope they take up this opportunity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Since we don't have any more information at this time, it's pretty much open season to theorize based on what's said in-game.


Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Since I can't quote the quote (easily) I'll quote your mention of it.

Here's something interesting, both about the name of the Dream Doctor and about the things he says. He talks about the dreamspace, and shaving a piece off himself, not unlike how an aspect can be shaved off the whole and lead to madness, if we buy into that theory. But the thing is, it makes sense. If we believe that Rularuu is trapped within his own mind, a master of dreams would be the perfect man to do this. And, really, what prison can hold a ravager of dimensions with such cosmic powers, but the prison of his own mind, where his own power is keeping him trapped?

It makes sense to me, at least.
We do know that the aspects of Rularuu were once mortals like us. This is quoted during one of the task forces. That would suggest that the worlds he consumes survive in some form.

If what you suggest is true it brings up an interesting thought. The actions of the midnight squad have driven Rularuu mad. The shard, if that is a form of his mind, was originally intact and had order. It could be that his entrapment was the catalyst that shattered his mind, and therefore the shard.

It will not be a good day when he wakes up....


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calash View Post
We do know that the aspects of Rularuu were once mortals like us. This is quoted during one of the task forces. That would suggest that the worlds he consumes survive in some form.

If what you suggest is true it brings up an interesting thought. The actions of the midnight squad have driven Rularuu mad. The shard, if that is a form of his mind, was originally intact and had order. It could be that his entrapment was the catalyst that shattered his mind, and therefore the shard.

It will not be a good day when he wakes up....
That has always added another level of confusion and intrigue to the whole story. My only possible guess is that originally Rularuu tried ruling over the pocket dimension, and picked folks from the populous as advisers. Then for whatever reason he consumed them, thereby gaining their knowledge and personalities. This could've been the catalyst for his breakdown, when either they drove him mad and shattered his mind, or willfully escaped from him. It's quite feasible that his Aspects don't actually want to be reunited.

If it's anywhere near the truth, it makes Rularuu an interesting blend of Galactus (with mortals gaining cosmic power) mixed with shades of Brainiac (we've never pinned down why Rularuu eats dimensions - could it be for knowledge?)...


Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!

 

Posted

One theory on the metaphysics of dreaming that I have seen in various places, is that a person's mind can travel to an alternate dimension (usually the Astral Plane), and through force of will and skill, 'sculpt' the astral matter into forms they desire.

In most stories, an astral traveller will just use this to form a cool looking body, but there are often tales of using this to create weapons, dwellings, and in extreme cases, entire realms where one's will holds sway.

To the native inhabitants of such a realm, you would be like unto a god.

In any case, the scenario that makes sense to me is this:

Rulaaru intends to invade and consume the PC dimension. This intent is somehow perceived in time to be reacted to. Rulie is far too powerful to oppose directly, so they make a trap: a dream or illusion that he has in fact, succeeded in his quest. Even he can't eat a dimension he has already eaten.

But what then? What is to keep Rulie from just wandering off to eat more dimensions? Simple: part of the dream/illusion is that there ARE no more dimensions: he's eaten them all and there is nowhere else to go, and no more food.

Faced with the prospect of an eternity starving and alone, Rulie goes nuts. He builds a world out of his memories inside of himself, then shatters it in a fit of pique.

The little tunnels we have created into the Shadow Shard are beneath his notice, or perhaps he suspects them of being part of his own madness. The only thing keeping him prisoner is probbly a bunch of magical wards reinforcing the illusion and his own inability to comprehend that he has been deceived...

Just some ramblings.


Story Arcs I created:

Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!

Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!

Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!