Goodness, I use it every spawn. Its a great power, is perma with the default slot and it looks cool. 
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Quote:
Spectral Terror is a good power to have. It helps stop you and your team from taking damage while it's up. If your playstyle is able to get away without using it and you and your team is doing good without it, then having it is up to you. I like to have it myself as a nice panic button. I've used it in every fight to help slow down attacks and to keep mobs at bay while the team tears them apart. Final answer - you don't need to take any powers you're not happy with using. I think you may miss it when a battle starts to sour.
|
Originally Posted by Tsukasa_NA
So my question is rather simple. Is ST necessary for an Ill/Rad? I mean, I see the appeal in using it, but I almost never do. Perhaps once every few hours. I just kinda feel like it's taking up space. Would I be able to get away without it?
|
Demonfest - 50 - Demon / Thermal Mastermind
Covered Shadow - 50 - Dark Melee / Shield Scrapper
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Pans_Folley
Spectral Terror is a good power to have. It helps stop you and your team from taking damage while it's up. If your playstyle is able to get away without using it and you and your team is doing good without it, then having it is up to you. I like to have it myself as a nice panic button. I've used it in every fight to help slow down attacks and to keep mobs at bay while the team tears them apart. Final answer - you don't need to take any powers you're not happy with using. I think you may miss it when a battle starts to sour.
|
I agree with Pans. Every controller set has an AoE Hold, and then some other kind of AoE control power that is up more often than the slow-recharging hold. Fire has Flashfire+Fire Cages. Ice has Ice Slick. Earth actually has two, Earthquake and Stalagmites+Stone Cages. Grav has Wormhole (and Dimension Shift, ugh) and Mind has Mass Hypnosis, Terrify and Mass Confusion, Plant has Seeds of Confusion.
Illusion's best AoE control is Spectral Terror. Spooky is not only permanent, it looks cool and it gives a 15% ToHit Debuff. It is fully effective, even with no additional slots. Spooky can give you back-up AoE control for when Phantom Army despawns or when Flash runs out. You can cast Spooky around a corner to avoid surprises. Spooky can block doors, since he continues to use his single target terrify for his 45 second life.
One of the reasons Flash is skippable with many illusion controller builds is because Spectral Terror is so good. Even though Cinders and Glacier are pretty much the same power, it is more easily skipped than the others, because Fire and Ice need the AoE holds more. Spooky provides effective AoE control from range that is perma from the beginning. If you commit to using it and really give it a good workout, I bet you'll find that it is very effective . . .
But if you don't like it, feel free to drop it. It is your character.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
i have don fine without spooky on my ill/storm
I love spectral terror and my main use for it is the tasty to-hit debuff
Quote:
Storm has some crowd control options that can make Spookie less useful, but for the rest of us its a very nice tool to have.
|
Originally Posted by TRTerror
i have don fine without spooky on my ill/storm
|
@Mazzo Grave
Webmaster Grave, Virtueverse!
Energy/Energy Blaster Guide
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
you *******!!!!
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TRTerror
i have don fine without spooky on my ill/storm
|
Black Marrow is exactly right. Storm has Freezing Rain, Hurricane and Snow Storm, plus Thunderclap, Tornado and even the knockback of Lightning Storm and Gale, all of which can be used to some degree for crowd control. Ill/Rad has . . . uh . . . Ling Rad to provide a little bit of slow, and Choking Cloud (if you take it, which you shouldn't) and EM Pulse with its long recharge. So, Ill/Storm can get by without Spectral Terror much more easily.
But I still have it on my Ill/Storm. Spooky is too good a tool.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I would skip Flash before I would skip Spectral Terror.
Illusion has no immob which (I think) is necessary for any self-respecting controller (mind excluded). So, to make up for that, you gotta use spooky.
Quote:
^ This.|
Originally Posted by Negate
I would skip Flash before I would skip Spectral Terror.
|
Spectral Terror is your main AOE control for an Illusionist. Ranged, up whenever you need him, very cheap in terms of slots and pretty effective. My Illusion/Storm couldn't be without Spooky screeching away.
Quote:
A lot of people find AoE Immobilization powers to be skippable. I don't, but I don't agree with your statement. Illusion is different. Illusion controllers control with distraction rather than hard effects. Illusion controllers don't conflict with other controllers using knockdown effects (Earthquake, Ice Slick, Freezing Rain) or knockback or positioning powers. An AoE Immob would actually hurt Illusion more than help it.|
Originally Posted by DaveMebs
Illusion has no immob which (I think) is necessary for any self-respecting controller (mind excluded). So, to make up for that, you gotta use spooky.
|
Every other set has an AoE control other than the AoE Hold. You use Spooky because Spectral Terror is the best AoE control in the Illusion set.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
If I didn't need to use one of my most effective AoE damage mitigation tools I'd up the rep a notch or two.
|
Originally Posted by TRTerror
i have don fine without spooky on my ill/storm
|
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
Quote:
I ran it on Invincible with no problems at all. No power is mandatory, learn to adapt.
|
Originally Posted by Psiphon
If I didn't need to use one of my most effective AoE damage mitigation tools I'd up the rep a notch or two.
|
Quote:
True, but that doesn't mean that skipping a very usefull power is the smartest way to play. You could probably solo a character who took nothing but pool powers and the 4 powers from your primary/secondary that you have to take - I wouldn't find that fun but someone might. |
Originally Posted by TRTerror
I ran it on Invincible with no problems at all. No power is mandatory, learn to adapt.
|
Clearly, you feel you do fine without Spectral Terror which is great - as long as you are having fun you shouldn't change the way you play. However, what appeals to you may not appeal to other folks and acting like your playstyle is the only acceptable playstyle is dishonest and may mislead someone who doesn't understand the powerset into thinking they SHOULD skip the power. The fact is that spectral terror is a very good power - it can contribute almost as much to your survivability as phantom army mostly due to 2 factors:
1) Spooky can stack fears up so even bosses can be easily feared
2) Spooky has a lot of to hit debuff - more than most folks realize.
I am using redtomax as a reference here and he could be wrong but usually he is not - according to tomax spooky has 2 attacks, an AE fear that does a -15% to hit debuff and a single target fear that also does a -15% to hit debuff. So spooky can stack up as much as -30% to hit debuff on a single target and as it fires off its single target attack every 6 seconds so it can hit multiple targets. This is also the reason that bosses can be easily feared as the two attacks allow spooky to stack fears.
A 30% to hit debuff is a lot for a controller, even radiation infection only does 25%, although it can be enhanced and spectral terror's to hit debuff can't. Even the base 15% from the AE fear is going to add to your survivability.
So, while you can certainly play without spectral terror, just as you can technically play without any power, there are also a lot of good reasons to take it.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
Quote:
Must be some language difficulties then since i have not claimed that my playstyle is everything. I am merely offering a different view as most people in this thread seems tot hink it must be picked. |
Originally Posted by EricHough
. However, what appeals to you may not appeal to other folks and acting like your playstyle is the only acceptable playstyle is dishonest and may mislead someone who doesn't understand the powerset into thinking they SHOULD skip the power. The fact is that spectral terror is a very good power - it can contribute almost as much to your survivability as phantom army mostly due to 2 factors:
. |
Could you please direct me to where i have said such a thing?
EDIT: If you are talking about my reply to Psiphon it was merely a retort to his post that you cant solo higher difficulties without spooky.
Quote:
Playing against a powerset is very instructive in how it is effective.|
Originally Posted by EricHough
I am using redtomax as a reference here and he could be wrong but usually he is not - according to tomax spooky has 2 attacks, an AE fear that does a -15% to hit debuff and a single target fear that also does a -15% to hit debuff. So spooky can stack up as much as -30% to hit debuff on a single target and as it fires off its single target attack every 6 seconds so it can hit multiple targets. This is also the reason that bosses can be easily feared as the two attacks allow spooky to stack fears.
|
I always liked Spectral Terror, but I didn't realize how good the to-hit debuff is until I wrote an AE arc with an Illusion/WP Boss. When my Brute wasn't feared, I couldn't hit anything. To beat the boss down you have to get away away from ST, and the recharge on Spectral Terror is so short the boss quickly summons it again and you have to move.
But with Illusion/Storm the OP may have a point, depending on playstyle. Hurricane's to-hit debuff is -30, twice that of ST. However, Hurricane doesn't work well with Freezing Rain, which is any Stormie's mainstay for maximizing damage. On the other hand, Phantasm and Phantom Army have lots of KB, which means your pets are already knocking things out of FR.
Really, it all boils down to what you like. Both Illusion and Storm are decent and none of the powers is out and out bad (well, you don't have any choice about Gale). Tornado is probably the least useful, but it can be great fun. Thunder Clap is probably the one I'd skip because it's another PBAoE like Flash, which I'm not particularly fond of.
Quote:
My error then - should know better than to take a single reply out of context. |
Originally Posted by TRTerror
Must be some language difficulties then since i have not claimed that my playstyle is everything. I am merely offering a different view as most people in this thread seems tot hink it must be picked.
Could you please direct me to where i have said such a thing? EDIT: If you are talking about my reply to Psiphon it was merely a retort to his post that you cant solo higher difficulties without spooky. |
Still, any analysis of how necessary a power is should always include specifics as to how it works and it's benefits. Anyting other than that doesn't feel helpfull, at least to me. I definitely like to hear what tactics, build or playstyle allows you to skip a power though, more information is always better. I certainly don't use it as often as I used to on my illusion/rad now that phantom army is close to perma, but for the occasional time that PA drops in the middle of a boss fight its nice to have as a fallback.
I mostly wanted to point out the actual numbers involved in spectral terror - as Rodion pointed out it is easy to miss out on knowing the true effects of spectral terror in part because the in game numbers don't include the pet powers. I discovered how effective it is in a similar manner - one of the hero's you go up against in mayhem missions in an illusion controller. I can't remember what level range but it was either 35-39 or 40-44. I first ran into him with my DM/Regen stalker and nearly got my *** kicked as regen has no fear protection so between that and the HUGE debuff I nearly bought it. (He was like +2 levels to me, so the 30% to hit debuff was more like 40%)
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
Quote:
Just to correct one thing -- Phantom Army has no knockback. Only Phantasm has knockback. Phanty has a single target blast and a Torrent with a high chance of knockback.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
Playing against a powerset is very instructive in how it is effective.
I always liked Spectral Terror, but I didn't realize how good the to-hit debuff is until I wrote an AE arc with an Illusion/WP Boss. When my Brute wasn't feared, I couldn't hit anything. To beat the boss down you have to get away away from ST, and the recharge on Spectral Terror is so short the boss quickly summons it again and you have to move. But with Illusion/Storm the OP may have a point, depending on playstyle. Hurricane's to-hit debuff is -30, twice that of ST. However, Hurricane doesn't work well with Freezing Rain, which is any Stormie's mainstay for maximizing damage. On the other hand, Phantasm and Phantom Army have lots of KB, which means your pets are already knocking things out of FR. Really, it all boils down to what you like. Both Illusion and Storm are decent and none of the powers is out and out bad (well, you don't have any choice about Gale). Tornado is probably the least useful, but it can be great fun. Thunder Clap is probably the one I'd skip because it's another PBAoE like Flash, which I'm not particularly fond of. |
I actually took Thunderclap on my Ill/Storm -- it can set up Containment on minions and recharges quickly -- much faster than Flash. Since Tornado also does Stuns, you can actually stack stuns with Tornado and Thunderclap. Granted, I don't use it much, but I have it because I wanted to play around with it.
Tornado can be quite useful in some situations. If a foe is knockback resistant, like most AVs and EBs, then it puts out a lot of damage and is autohit. Also against foes that are very hard to hit, Tornado is autohit so it can take out those Paragon Protectors who have just hit their MoG or Elude. And, Tornado is great in situations where you think you might get mezzed, since it flies around on its own, causing chaos whereever it goes.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
I did I used to pad my missions.|
Originally Posted by TRTerror
I ran it on Invincible with no problems at all. No power is mandatory, learn to adapt.
|
On my Ill/Kin I was running Invincible mishes set for 8 people; the main Illusion powers that allowed me to do that were Phantom Army and Spectral Terror.
As you've stated an Ill /Storm has more control in the Secondary than other controllers so is better placed to get by without it, however in most cases Spooky offers far more mitigation than any Storm power.
Dropping Spooky onto a mob will completely eliminate damage from that mob including bosses, the powers in Storm simply reduce it through KD and -recharge.
So can you get by without Spooky, of course.
Should you?
IMO no!
It's one of the best powers in the Illusion set and should always be taken especially with the new mission settings.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
I was fearing Infernal with Spectral Terror. I was Supersidekicked to 48 (Orginally 50) and the AV was 52! Most impressive i'd say.
Spectral Terror is a good power to have. All i am saying that it is fully possible to paly without it.
Have a couple things I'd like to clarify about ST.
The Fear isn't auto-hit, correct? Does the Fear need to hit and/or stack for the To Hit debuff to take effect? That is, does ST need to be around for a while before the To Hit takes effect on an AV?
I'm 1.5 bars from 50 with the Ill/Rad and about to start the Maria Jenkins arc. So, the ST effect on AVs would be helpful in game-planning the attack.
Thanks.
Quote:
RedTomax shows the AE fear as having an accuracy of 1 and the single target version as having an accuracy of 1.4 and none of the effects are listed as being autohit, so yes, it looks like both will need to hit. The single target attack has a recharge time of 6 seconds and the to hit debuff is 20s duration, so it might be able to stack. For single, big targets (like EB's or AV's) I like to just stack spectral terror as much as possible - with the amount of recharge you need to even consider taking on an AV you would probably be able to keep at least two out.
|
Originally Posted by Erin Go Braugh
Have a couple things I'd like to clarify about ST.
The Fear isn't auto-hit, correct? Does the Fear need to hit and/or stack for the To Hit debuff to take effect? That is, does ST need to be around for a while before the To Hit takes effect on an AV? I'm 1.5 bars from 50 with the Ill/Rad and about to start the Maria Jenkins arc. So, the ST effect on AVs would be helpful in game-planning the attack. Thanks. |
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
My recharge is 13 seconds, but the End to generate it is still 13.7. Not sure how my Endurance management will be in the thick of a fight. On paper, it looks okay.
Thanks!
Regarding stacking, I probably should've been clearer. I wasn't so much thinking about the To-Hit stacking as the Fear Mag. I'm not sure the mechanics, so I wasn't sure if the Fear had to hit a number of times in order to terrorize an AV, which would generate the To-Hut debuff. Or, if the To-Hit debuff happened as soon as it hit.
Did that make sense?
So my question is rather simple. Is ST necessary for an Ill/Rad? I mean, I see the appeal in using it, but I almost never do. Perhaps once every few hours. I just kinda feel like it's taking up space. Would I be able to get away without it?