Its cause its shivans.
WP isnt really a outstanding set when it comes to survivability......
People make it look like it cause its the best set for farming nemesis.
WP is lacking against MANY end lvl mobgroups.....if missions are set for many players.
Carnies.....
Council (the neg energy attacks hurt very much)
Paragon Police (dont even try them on a WP the - def in each attack and the fact you dont have any energy res leaves you standing without any protection)
Malta (sappers......)
Tsoo ( Slows...)
Arachnos ( crazy def debuffs, end drains and - regen,)
Shivans are pretty much exactly the same as Paragon Police, energy attacks whcih cause -def each time they hit.
Since you only got energy def as WP and no resistances, Shivans take away your only defense in seconds.
As a matter of fact you can turn of ALL other toggles apart from Rttc since Rttc is the only toggle that actually helps against Shivans , the other toggles are smash/lethal res = useless, energy def = useless since debuffed to 0 with 2 or 3 attacks.
Ont he power tab, pop open the combat attributes, open up the Base section, right click on regeneration rate, and choose to monitor it.
I have this monitored on my /WP Brute, was running missions on him yesterday and my regen rate seemed to be jumping up normally. Keep an eye on it and check what's happening as you fight.
Maybe it's just the Shivans though? I remember them generally being pretty unpleasant, especially as they hammer you with -def. They're Energy damage too, which WP isn't strong against.
Quote:
The regen you can build WP for makes it highly survivable against a lot of things you might not think it would be, though. Primary matters, and patron matters, though.|
Originally Posted by Moghedien_EU
WP isnt really a outstanding set when it comes to survivability......
WP is lacking against MANY end lvl mobgroups.....if missions are set for many players. Carnies..... Council (the neg energy attacks hurt very much) Paragon Police (dont even try them on a WP the - def in each attack and the fact you dont have any energy res leaves you standing without any protection) Malta (sappers......) Tsoo ( Slows...) |
I play a DM/WP/GW built largely for regen and tohit debuff - he can stand up to lot, and Council especially are great fun on him. The only mobs he struggles with are Carnies and Malta, moreso Malta, due to the end drain. Even against those, DM/WP does offer you a good chance to sort your endurance back out - which is why Malta are the more dangerous as they tend to drain it all, detoggle, and then stun or hold, all whilst doing huge amounts of damage. The Carnies never really do enough drain at once to cause toggle drop, so they're more an irritation than really dangerous.
It does take effort, though - it's not a toon where I just walk over everything without thinking. At times he seems to be, and then when I've run into things that he does have a tough time against it's been a nasty shock to the system. I would imagine that Claws/WP will have more of those moments, as it doesn't have Dark Melee's utility powers to help out.
I see two problems here. The first is shivans - they do all energy damage AND they have a ton of def debuff which means that they will be hitting you a lot. Since you don't have Heightened senses yet the only real defense you have against their attacks is your regen - and which won't be high enough at this low level to deal with the much larger number of attacks than normal that will be hitting due to the def debuff.
The second problem is your attacks and a bit your slotting - you have way to many pool attacks that, while ok for brutes, are far inferior to the claws attacks and you have far to many attacks overall, which waters down your slotting. I don't know if you can respec or not but you might be able to use your alternate build to redo things, if so I would recommend a build like the following:
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 19 Mutation Brute
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Flight
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Strike -- Acc(A), Acc(3), EndRdx(5), EndRdx(13), RechRdx(15)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Heal(A)
Level 2: Slash -- Acc(A), Acc(3), EndRdx(5), EndRdx(13), RechRdx(17)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Heal(A)
Level 6: Spin -- Acc(A), Acc(7), EndRdx(7), EndRdx(11), RechRdx(15)
Level 8: Air Superiority -- Acc(A), Acc(9), EndRdx(9), EndRdx(11)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx(A)
Level 12: Mind Over Body -- EndRdx(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight(A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(17)
Level 18: Focus -- Acc(A), Acc(19), EndRdx(19)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- Empty(A)
Level 22: [Empty]
Level 24: [Empty]
Level 26: [Empty]
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
This is very similar to the build I used to level my claws/wp brute. While this build skips followup thats because, like most brutes, it relies on fury for damage - a high fury will dwarf the damage bonus from followup and while the to hit bonus is nice you can take follow up after L20 when you are more likely to be fighting high level opponents. In these early levels the goal is to get a decent single target attack chain to build fury, then leverage your fury to get maximum damage from spin. The problem with folloup is that is has a long recharge so it doesn't fit will into an attack chain without a lot of recharge reduction, plus it costs a lot of end as well. With the above slotting you should have a good attack chain in Strike+Slash+AS which you can fill in with brawl as needed. End use should be fairly low.
You will also note that I only slotted end reduction into defenses. DO's give you such a small boost and end is such an issue prior to getting quick recovery that I find it is more usefull to slot end reduction until L22 and you can get SO's in the powers.
Against anything but shivans you will generally find your defenses to be pretty good - especially against anything that does lethal/smashing as MoB will reduce the damage enough to let your regen keep up. Once you get HS you will still have good protection even against enemies that do all exotic damage (energy, NE, fire, cold). Against shivans prior to HS your best defense is a good offense - kill them fast.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
I've noticed a severe survivability drop recently on my SS/WP brute, specifically against mobs with lots of debuffs (which are generally more difficult mobs on avg, but now seem to be a death sentence). I'm not a numbers expert, but I wonder if something in the set is broken or not working properly, as I've got lvl 50 wp's in a tank and scrapper, so I've played the set a lot, and again, unless it's some kind of fluke, I'm wondering if something isn't working properly in the set.
My experience is different and fresh, having just far...err...played my brute through TV maps at +3/x8 difficulty today. I didn't die but once due to rage + SoW crash (poor playing on my part). I only used SoW when I was facing two groups.
Seems to be working perfectly fine for me.
Shivians will quickly start hitting you 95% of the time, which is a lot more often than ~50% of the time that a normal even con would do. It is sort of like fighting a faction that hits twice as hard as another from a survivability standpoint.
Quote:
What mobs were you facing?|
Originally Posted by Clouded
My experience is different and fresh, having just far...err...played my brute through TV maps at +3/x8 difficulty today. I didn't die but once due to rage + SoW crash (poor playing on my part). I only used SoW when I was facing two groups.
Seems to be working perfectly fine for me. |
Would you be able to do the same in the cim caves?
I've also noticed a drop in my survivability. I used to be able to take multipule mobs of Freaks at once without ever having my health drop below 50%, but now I die before I can finish off the group. :/
The other problem with Shivans (to round out the /WP kryptonite trifecta) is that they prefer to attack from range, so not only are they doing a damage type you have no real protection against at your level, and not only are you at the defense floor after a couple of attacks, you're probably also not getting the full benefit of RttC, since a lot of the mobs attacking you aren't close enough to fuel it.
Quote:
That was really the biggest problem I was having I think. No matter how hard I tried to gather them, no matter what I found for cover, at least one or two would still manage to find a spot with line of sight so that they could stay far back and fire off their attacks outside my neener field. (I swear...and I swore a lot in that mission...Arachnos base maps are rapidly becoming one of my least favorites.)|
Originally Posted by Dot_Communist
The other problem with Shivans (to round out the /WP kryptonite trifecta) is that they prefer to attack from range, so not only are they doing a damage type you have no real protection against at your level, and not only are you at the defense floor after a couple of attacks, you're probably also not getting the full benefit of RttC, since a lot of the mobs attacking you aren't close enough to fuel it.
|
At least my Brute managed to get Woman in Black in that mission, so when she does the Ouroboros Initiation, she will be able to just go ahead and breeze through the Shivan mission instead of farming it.
Quote:
The TV map is full of Nemesis and Family. I've been running this map since my SS/WP hit 50, which was about 30-40 days after WP was available (i forget the issue #). |
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
What mobs were you facing?
Would you be able to do the same in the cim caves? |
I don't notice any difference in my survivability.
I haven't run into any Romans for awhile but I'll check on a few cim missions later or just farm the wall like I use to.
Quote:
I have no problems with Nemesis myself either on my SS/WP.|
Originally Posted by Clouded
The TV map is full of Nemesis and Family. I've been running this map since my SS/WP hit 50, which was about 30-40 days after WP was available (i forget the issue #).
I don't notice any difference in my survivability. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Clouded
I haven't run into any Romans for awhile but I'll check on a few cim missions later or just farm the wall like I use to.
|
I don't have any problems on the wall, but in actual missions once they crash my def, I often drop like a sack of nickels.
In my opinion, not counting IO sets, +def is not really one of the strong-suits of /WP, and a situation where def crashes is one where the set should shine.
But it doesn't.
Quote:
The romans are probably the second toughest faction, IMO, next to Vanguard for most melee ATs. They bring some tough burst DPS, mezz protection and a healer/rezzer. |
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
I don't have any problems on the wall, but in actual missions once they crash my def, I often drop like a sack of nickels. |
So, it could be WAI but I'll have to check it out for myself later tonight.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
In my opinion, not counting IO sets, +def is not really one of the strong-suits of /WP, and a situation where def crashes is one where the set should shine.
But it doesn't. |
WP is weakest against high burst damage foes and pairing WP with a primary that provides excellent mitigation is going to be best. SS is good with WP but I wouldn't say its the best. Sets like DM and Stone are much better suited to providing more reliable mitigation than SS, IMO.
To use an analogy...Romans are to /WP, as Giant Shard Eyeballs are to /SR. Again, I'll check this out later tonight and I'll try +0/x8 - +4/x8 and report back.
My claws/sr's biggest problem against +4 cimerorans was his inability to hit them.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
Well to add to my overall mitigation I added Soul Mastery. I'm currently running Darkest Night & chaining Dark Oblteration against tough mobs like Cims.|
Originally Posted by Clouded
WP is weakest against high burst damage foes and pairing WP with a primary that provides excellent mitigation is going to be best. SS is good with WP but I wouldn't say its the best. Sets like DM and Stone are much better suited to providing more reliable mitigation than SS, IMO.
|
What makes SM much better in the mitigation department in terms of dealing with groups of cims? I can understand DM with Siphon Life & I suppose the -to hit from Soul Drain, but I've played SM to 50 and I didn't see anything that stood out as better at mitigating vs. large groups.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Clouded
To use an analogy...Romans are to /WP, as Giant Shard Eyeballs are to /SR. Again, I'll check this out later tonight and I'll try +0/x8 - +4/x8 and report back.
|
I didn't have a chance to login yesterday and it might be a few days until I can. If you want, you can come to FLA and kick my boss in the nuts for giving me this last minute project. >8(
I've never had a problem with even conned Shivans on any of my WPs at that lvl with lvl 20 DO's. Then again, the power choices and slotting are like night and day compared to what I've grown accustomed to. I always 3 slot HPT and Fast Healing with heals before I give my attacks their second accuracy. I also take health at 18, 3 slotted by 19, and save MOB for lvl 30. You have 5 attacks multi slotted when only 3 are needed with the claws primary. I don't bother with follow up until I'm making a final build. Without enough global recharge, it's too much of a pain to keep it double stacked while maintaining your endurance bar. I'm at work now, so don't have access to mids atm. I'll make a decent lvling wp build when I get home. With endurance free brawl, end reds aren't needed at all. Also, why getting IO's so early? I don't bother with them until lvl 47.
50 SM/WP Brute - D Block
50 FM/ELA Brute - Raging Daemon
50 Acher/MM Blaster - Dark Reiver
50 FM/SD - Firestorm Brigade
You were right to fear me...
As promised, this is what I work with on all my WP characters. As long as you use brawl every other attack, your endurance bar should be fine.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
1 to SO's Claws/WP: Level 21 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- Acc(A), Acc(7), Dmg(9), Dmg(15)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Heal(A), Heal(3), Heal(3)
Level 2: Strike -- Acc(A), Acc(7), Dmg(13), Dmg(15)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Heal(A), Heal(5), Heal(5)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A)
Level 8: Slash -- Acc(A), Acc(9), Dmg(13)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(11), DefBuff(11)
Level 12: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump(A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Heal(A), Heal(17), Heal(17)
Level 18: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(19), Heal(19)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21)
Level 22: [Empty]
Level 24: [Empty]
Level 26: [Empty]
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx(A)
Level 1: Fury
50 SM/WP Brute - D Block
50 FM/ELA Brute - Raging Daemon
50 Acher/MM Blaster - Dark Reiver
50 FM/SD - Firestorm Brigade
You were right to fear me...
I always slot my attacks with Acc, End, 3x Dmg, Rech. Even on /Regen or /WP characters. I tend to slaughter anything that moves, so I've found myself out of End even with Quick Recovery and Stamina both 3-slotted. 
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Biggest Troll on the forums? I'll give you a hint:
So I finally logged in and took my SS/WP Brute, Matt the Body through Cimerora. Running the wall was a none issue for the most part, I did find myself hitting SoW for +2s.
I ran a couple missions and found my breaking point. I could run at -1, +0, +1/x8 but could not with stand the +2/x8. I reduced the difficulty to +2/x6 and found this much more to my liking. I didn't have time to try out +3/+4 at this setting.
Now, the all important question. Does this match pre-I16 difficulty? I honestly have no idea. Pre-16 I ran all missions, in Cim, on relentless and never had a problem other than the occasional damage spikes. Pre-16 I was able to farm the wall much like I did this time around, so that testing felt the same but I don't have any other evidence.
I'm going to pull a Synapse and chalk this up to preception.
Prior to I16, we could not run missions set for 8 without having 7 other team members, and you would have buffs/debuffs in those instances. I honestly don't think anything has changed with RttC. With RttC fully saturated (I assume it's saturated, x8 mobb diff produces a sheetload of critters), I was showing between 114 HP/sec and 163 HP/sec. It fluctuated as enemies moved around.
I run several WP brutes and haven't noticed any problems yet. Not saying that problems aren't there, but I haven't noticed any. Every thing seems pretty normal to me.
ymmv
I just ran some missions on my io'd up, softcapped wp scrapper, and my perception is that something is busted, because I was popping greens like crazy where before my health bar would barely move. Any chance a dev could comment?
What were you fighting and what was your difficulty?
Put down some more info.
Does Rise to the Challenge simply not work any more?
I am having a horrible time getting my Claws/WP Brute through Marshall Brass's second arc. Specifically, the second mission is proving nearly impossible to get through. My Brute is at level 19, and has been taken down by the Shivans in this mission way too many times. I have Rise to the Challenge turned on and slotted with an Endurance Reduction and 2 Heal IOs. However, these Shivans just tear into her as if they were +gazillion to her (I'm even running this mission at -1, and they still burn through her health as if she had no regen whatsoever.
What happened to Willpower? It used to be a fun powerset to play. I don't recall any of my other WP characters (WP/EM Tank, WP/SS Tank, and MA/WP Scrapper) ever having so much trouble when happily surrounded by a sea of foes. Now, it feels like I should not bother wasting the endurance and just keep RttC turned off, since it does not seem to be working any more.
For what it's worth, here is her build so far:
Claws:
Swipe - ACC/DMG(3)
Follow Up - ACC/DMG(3)/RCH(2)
Focus - ACC/DMG(2)
Willpower:
High Pain Tolerance - HEAL(2)
Mind over Body - Endurance Reduction/Resist Damage(2)
Fast Healing - HEAL
Indomitable Will - Endurance Reduction
Rise to the Challenge - Endurance Reduction/HEAL(2)
Pools:
Air Superiority - ACC/DMG
Fly - FLY(2)
Boxing - ACC/DMG
All enhancers are level 15 or 20 generic IOs.