yes / no / not really.
Yes, you can tank without granite. The big problem is, you don't get very many resists through IO's... and while you can soft-cap your defenses very easily... anything that gets through your defenses is going to hit for full damage.
You can get around this by focusing on recharges. On my own stone-tank I'm hitting 70hp+ per second regeneration rate and a max hit point of 3k. Theoretically you can perma Earth's Embrace... and if you get to that point... well. Getting hit doesn't matter as much.
Quote:
Mud Pots alone isn't a reason to choose Stone... with the exception of Willpower every other tanker aura is as good or better for aggro purposes. Without Granite a Stone tank is simply a defense tanker with poor mobility easily outsurvived by, well, nearly every other primary. If you hate Granite then you do not want to play a stone tank. Period.|
Originally Posted by Plusone
Ok, I want Mud Pots so I can soak up hate like a sponge, but I hate granite, would it be silly to not take granite and try and tank using the lesser armors?
Would I still be able to alpha tank without Granite armor? |
Do you want really good aggro handling abilities coupled with very nice damage? Roll a Shield tank... /Fire, /Super Strength or /Electric would compliment it nicely. Easily soft capped defensively and it gives you ok resists and a very nice damage buff. I have a soft capped Shield Scrapper who can tank quite well and holds aggro nicely... and is durable enough to main tank the ITF.
Want a bit less damage but more survivability? Invulnerability may fit in there nicely... with a relatively inexpensive IO build it's easy to soft cap your defenses, giving you a tanker that's second only to Stone for durability. And trust me, you will have a MUCH easier time with aggro control with an Invuln, Shield or Ice than with a Stone.
Want the absolute king of aggro control? Ice armor does a great job. It's somewhat less sturdy than Shield but it will be adequate to the challenge if you build it to the soft cap. It does lack any significant resists unfortunately.
From what you're saying Stone would be a very poor fit for you; you'd do far better choosing a different primary. Stone offers unparalleled durability in exchange for mobility, recharge & damage penalties. Even outside of Granite you will still have the mobility problems; remember Rooted is your Mez protection.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
If you want to play a stone tank without Granite, I see no reason why someone wouldn't choose Ice Armor instead, with the 2 damage auras, and the better (and easier to softcap) defense, other than maybe aesthetics.
I do, however, believe that you should make sure that you can tank on 4 man teams without granite because Granite is overkill at that point, and you, and your team, is better off having you out of granite.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
Quote:
I would disagree with this. The way it reads one would may never believe that an Ice Tank could be the lead/alpha Tank.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
yes / no / not really.
Yes, you can tank without granite. The big problem is, you don't get very many resists through IO's... and while you can soft-cap your defenses very easily... anything that gets through your defenses is going to hit for full damage. You can get around this by focusing on recharges. On my own stone-tank I'm hitting 70hp+ per second regeneration rate and a max hit point of 3k. Theoretically you can perma Earth's Embrace... and if you get to that point... well. Getting hit doesn't matter as much. |
I would say yes you can lead without granite atleast as well as an Icer can, and with Minerals at a few times better than a more than one of the sets.
As mentioned your Stoney minus Granite is going to love using regen as its "tier 9". Soft cap the defense and add regen when possible. You should be fine for most situations execpt the player quips because your build lacks Granite!
Mine sits at slightly above the soft cap for all but f/c damage and the resistance is at roughly 50%.. s/l damage is resisted at 40% and regen is at 50 hps. I don't worry about much on her. Just remember Tanking is not only using your primary but secondaries and epics. pbaoe kd this pbaoe kd that.
Whatever you decide enjoy and have fun!
Quote:
Aesthetics... OK.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
If you want to play a stone tank without Granite, I see no reason why someone wouldn't choose Ice Armor instead, with the 2 damage auras, and the better (and easier to softcap) defense, other than maybe aesthetics.
I do, however, believe that you should make sure that you can tank on 4 man teams without granite because Granite is overkill at that point, and you, and your team, is better off having you out of granite. |
A small correction though, Ice does not have 2 damage auras CE does no damage.
A smal opinion too
The statment on defense is a bit misleading. Stone will have much better psi defense compared to Ice and at the point of softcapp'n 4 other damage types... better is kind of a stretch. They both fall short in fire and cold. I believe the choice then comes down to regen vs. Hibernate
Sacrificing mobility for Mud Pots when you'd be much better off just using tire-driven snow color for your Ice Armor toggles is unlikely to be worth the effort.
Having played both ends of the spectrum and having both a Tank and Brute with every possible Stone Armor toggle (and soft-capped for both), I can tell you it isn't worth it to run the pre-Granite for the sake of spiting Granite.
And Mud Pots is not particularly good at aggro control. It's not the worst but it certainly isn't the best that you seem to believe it to be.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
Quote:
On my first 50, my buddy was a Stone Tanker who never took Granite. We duo'd sometimes, but more often than not recruited a full team. He was actually pretty tough to take down. And this was before IO's. Of course my character was a Force Field Defender.....
|
Originally Posted by Plusone
Ok, I want Mud Pots so I can soak up hate like a sponge, but I hate granite, would it be silly to not take granite and try and tank using the lesser armors?
Would I still be able to alpha tank without Granite armor? |
Quote:
That's somewhat misleading too. Ice will have MUCH better defense numbers, no movement penalty, a burst regen/recovery power (Hibernate), a burst end/defense power (Energy Absorption), much more aggro management, and the only thing they give up when compared to stone without granite is Regen and psi defense, and there's not that much psi in this game in bulk enough to manage. Even carnies, save for illusionists and MI's don't do that much psi damage; nor do Rikti, which is how I can tank Rikti and Carnies in Granite as opposed to dropping down to stone armor/minerals/rooted.|
Originally Posted by Dissolution
Aesthetics... OK.
A small correction though, Ice does not have 2 damage auras CE does no damage. A smal opinion too The statment on defense is a bit misleading. Stone will have much better psi defense compared to Ice and at the point of softcapp'n 4 other damage types... better is kind of a stretch. They both fall short in fire and cold. I believe the choice then comes down to regen vs. Hibernate |
If it came down to it, I'm not sure I would play stone without granite over Ice for just about any reason.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
Quote:
This line isn't exactly accurate. Go run a couple of shadow shard task forces and say that with a straight face. It's one of the few places where Stone's Minerals was a requirement in order to have effective tanking.
| and there's not that much psi in this game in bulk enough to manage. |
Quote:
Even paper missions at x8 diff will spawn 2 bosses per spawn. Often two Master Illusionists, two Ring Mistresses or one of each for carnies and for Arachnos you get Fortunatas, Fortunata bosses and Tarantula Mistresses.
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
This line isn't exactly accurate. Go run a couple of shadow shard task forces and say that with a straight face. It's one of the few places where Stone's Minerals was a requirement in order to have effective tanking.
|
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
Are you after Mud Pots or after a Tank that can soak alphas without Granite? If the former (you really like the power Mud Pots, the look of it or feel) then you are pretty much committed to the Stone Armor set. If not, and you're really after an mobile alpha soaker then I'd recommend Invuln. |
Originally Posted by Plusone
Ok, I want Mud Pots so I can soak up hate like a sponge, but I hate granite, would it be silly to not take granite and try and tank using the lesser armors?
Would I still be able to alpha tank without Granite armor? |
If you're just trying to run a Stone Armor Tank sans Granite for fun and the challenge then go for it. I just did a quick run through Mid's to see how it would work using common IOs just to get a feel for the numbers. Personally, it would be a bit weak coming out of the gate (for me at least) and would take some definite love/inf to bring the numbers up.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
Well lets see my stone/ice tank has this outside of granite : 46% s/l def, 47% psi def, 36% e/n def, 36% s/l res and I regen 42-67 hp /sec (depending on if EE is up or not). Granite is usually not needed until I start fighting purple mobs, which hit hard without much resistance. Aside from heavy hitting mobs, granite is not required for survival.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
Those are some nice numbers which sets did you use?
Base numbers (no offensive sets figured in, using just common IOs):
S/L Defense is around 33%, with Weave, Resist 25% with Tough
Fire/Cold Defense 7.9% (39.4% Resist)
Eng/Neg Defense 33.1%
Psi 47.5% which is a good number
Looks like the build would require approx 2-3 sets on Kinetic Combat or equivalent which would run approx what now around 300-640 million or more?
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
well i used 2 KC sets to get the s/l setup. After that I went with 2 sets of eradication at 4 pieces to get more e/n def and more +hp. Beyond that I went with various sets that gave +run speed and +hp.
I'm not sure of cost but 200-400 sounds right, but I have like 6-8 billion and growing so I'm not a casual gamer by any stretch of the imagination.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
Doable, but going to be expensive:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(3), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:50(5)
Level 1: Scorch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(7), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg:30(9), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx:30(9)
Level 2: Fire Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(13), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg:30(13), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx:30(15)
Level 4: Stone Skin -- RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(15), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(17), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(19)
Level 6: Earth's Embrace -- RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(19), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(21), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(21), Numna-Heal:50(23), Numna-Heal/Rchg:50(23)
Level 8: Combustion -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(25), Sciroc-Dam%:50(25)
Level 10: Mud Pots -- Oblit-Dmg:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(29), Oblit-%Dam:50(31)
Level 12: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(31), RgnTis-Regen+:30(31)
Level 16: Rooted -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(33)
Level 18: Brimstone Armor -- RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(33), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(33), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(34)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(34), P'Shift-EndMod:50(34), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(36)
Level 22: Taunt -- Zinger-Dam%:50(A)
Level 24: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(37), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg:30(37), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx:30(37)
Level 26: Crystal Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(39), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:50(39)
Level 28: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(40), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(40), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(40)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(42), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:50(42)
Level 32: Minerals -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:40(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(43), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(43), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:50(43)
Level 35: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A)
Level 38: Super Jump -- Winter-ResSlow:50(A)
Level 41: Fire Sword Circle -- Oblit-%Dam:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(45), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46)
Level 44: Incinerate -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(46), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(48)
Level 47: Greater Fire Sword -- Hectmb-Dam%:50(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg:50(48), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50), RechRdx-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 6% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 6% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 6% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 6% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 6% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 6% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 6% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 6% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 21.1% Defense(Smashing)
- 21.1% Defense(Lethal)
- 3% Defense(Fire)
- 3% Defense(Cold)
- 8% Defense(Energy)
- 8% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 14.9% Defense(Melee)
- 5.5% Defense(Ranged)
- 3% Defense(AoE)
- 47.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 67% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 224.9 HP (12%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Immobilize) 14.9%
- MezResist(Stun) 4.4%
- 6.5% (0.11 End/sec) Recovery
- 86% (6.73 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 20% ResEffect(FlySpeed)
- 20% ResEffect(RechargeTime)
- 20% ResEffect(RunSpeed)
- 2.52% Resistance(Fire)
- 2.52% Resistance(Cold)
- 3.13% Resistance(Negative)
- 5% RunSpeed
------------
Set Bonuses:
Luck of the Gambler
(Rock Armor)
- 10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Scorch)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 28.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Melee)
(Scorch)
- 8% (0.63 HP/sec) Regeneration
(Fire Sword)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 28.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Melee)
(Fire Sword)
- 8% (0.63 HP/sec) Regeneration
(Stone Skin)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
- 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.63% Defense(Ranged)
- 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.63% Defense(Melee)
(Stone Skin)
- 3% Defense(All)
(Earth's Embrace)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
- 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.63% Defense(Ranged)
- 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.63% Defense(Melee)
(Earth's Embrace)
- 12% (0.94 HP/sec) Regeneration
(Combustion)
- 10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 3.13% Resistance(Negative)
(Mud Pots)
- MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 3.75% Defense(Melee), 1.88% Defense(Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Smashing)
(Brimstone Armor)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
- 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.63% Defense(Ranged)
- 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.63% Defense(Melee)
(Stamina)
- 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
- 35.1 HP (1.88%) HitPoints
- 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
(Boxing)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 28.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Melee)
(Boxing)
- 8% (0.63 HP/sec) Regeneration
(Crystal Armor)
- 10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Tough)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
- 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.63% Defense(Ranged)
- 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.63% Defense(Melee)
(Weave)
- 10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Minerals)
- 10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Combat Jumping)
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Super Jump)
- 20% ResEffect(RunSpeed), 20% ResEffect(RechargeTime), 20% ResEffect(FlySpeed)
(Fire Sword Circle)
- MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy) (Exceeded 5 Bonus Cap)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Incinerate)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
- 21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
- 7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
(Greater Fire Sword)
- 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
- 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
- 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
And here's a quickie on building out with common IOs until your sets come in.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(3), DefBuff-I:50(3), EndRdx-I:50(5)
Level 1: Scorch -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(5), Dmg-I:50(7), Dmg-I:50(7), EndRdx-I:50(9)
Level 2: Fire Sword -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(9), Dmg-I:50(11), Dmg-I:50(11), Dmg-I:50(13), EndRdx-I:50(46)
Level 4: Stone Skin -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(13), ResDam-I:50(15)
Level 6: Earth's Embrace -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(15), RechRdx-I:50(17)
Level 8: Combustion -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(17), Dmg-I:50(19), Dmg-I:50(19), EndRdx-I:50(21)
Level 10: Mud Pots -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(21), Dmg-I:50(23), Dmg-I:50(23), Dmg-I:50(25), EndRdx-I:50(43)
Level 12: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 14: Health -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(25), Heal-I:50(27)
Level 16: Rooted -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(27), Heal-I:50(29), EndRdx-I:50(29)
Level 18: Brimstone Armor -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(31), ResDam-I:50(31), EndRdx-I:50(31)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(33), EndMod-I:50(33)
Level 22: Taunt -- Taunt-I:50(A)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(33), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(34), EndRdx-I:50(34)
Level 26: Crystal Armor -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(36), DefBuff-I:50(36), EndRdx-I:50(36)
Level 28: Tough -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(37), ResDam-I:50(37), EndRdx-I:50(37)
Level 30: Weave -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(39), DefBuff-I:50(39), EndRdx-I:50(39)
Level 32: Minerals -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(40), DefBuff-I:50(40), EndRdx-I:50(40)
Level 35: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I:50(A)
Level 38: Super Jump -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 41: Fire Sword Circle -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(42), Dmg-I:50(42), Dmg-I:50(42), Dmg-I:50(43), EndRdx-I:50(43)
Level 44: Incinerate -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(45), Dmg-I:50(45), Dmg-I:50(45), Dmg-I:50(46), EndRdx-I:50(46)
Level 47: Greater Fire Sword -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(48), Dmg-I:50(48), Dmg-I:50(48), EndRdx-I:50(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50), RechRdx-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
------------
Set Bonuses:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Quote:
This. I only jump in & out of Granite as a last ditch response. But then, if I weren't going to have Granite as backup, I wouldn't bother with Stone Armor in the first place.|
Originally Posted by Lohenien
Well lets see my stone/ice tank has this outside of granite : 46% s/l def, 47% psi def, 36% e/n def, 36% s/l res and I regen 42-67 hp /sec (depending on if EE is up or not). Granite is usually not needed until I start fighting purple mobs, which hit hard without much resistance. Aside from heavy hitting mobs, granite is not required for survival.
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BTW, Chilling Embrace >> Pots for aggro generation. Both have auto-hit debuffs that grabs aggro, but IIRC, CE pulses every .5 sec vsl Pots' 2 sec rate. Combine that w/Icicles as a 2nd (and damaging) aura and Ice by far has the best aggro management in the game.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Quote:
Thanks for the info, that's pretty much what I figured and it does provide a nice Tank sans Granite (that is Granite as an oh !%3!! armor), but not for the casual player. It's definitely a project Tank unless you've got inf to back it. |
Originally Posted by Lohenien
well i used 2 KC sets to get the s/l setup. After that I went with 2 sets of eradication at 4 pieces to get more e/n def and more +hp. Beyond that I went with various sets that gave +run speed and +hp.
I'm not sure of cost but 200-400 sounds right, but I have like 6-8 billion and growing so I'm not a casual gamer by any stretch of the imagination. |
I'm still thinking that Invuln or Shield might better meet the OPs purpose. I'd personally look at Invuln as it's a very durable set which can be enhanced quite nicely for a modest investment.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
Quote:
Much better defense again.... vs. a soft cap is still 5% tohit... and Ice still has no defense vs. Psi which I didn't mind fisleading. But OK. IT's fairly minor but you also gain 10-15% resistance vs. s/l damage with Stone vs. 0% with Ice, I believe fire remains the same in the 20-30% range while the cold numbers strongly favor Ice.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
That's somewhat misleading too. Ice will have MUCH better defense numbers, no movement penalty, a burst regen/recovery power (Hibernate), a burst end/defense power (Energy Absorption), much more aggro management, and the only thing they give up when compared to stone without granite is Regen and psi defense, and there's not that much psi in this game in bulk enough to manage. Even carnies, save for illusionists and MI's don't do that much psi damage; nor do Rikti, which is how I can tank Rikti and Carnies in Granite as opposed to dropping down to stone armor/minerals/rooted.
If it came down to it, I'm not sure I would play stone without granite over Ice for just about any reason. |
True no movment penalty for Ice and it resists slow too.. I didn't know that was part of the discussion. Being kinda directed toward TP is a bummer but thats Stone
I also mentioned a guiding factor "could" be Hibernate vs. regen through Rooted,and although I didn't spell out what the powers did I hardley find what I said misleading to the point of correction and maybe I used a wrong word, instead of misleading maybe I should of said something else.
I agree with most of the descriptions you are giving but saying I am misleading is like saying you were because you forgot to mention you can't do anything in Hibernate since you are untouchable/phased and could lose aggro... and that just isnt so. You brought some points but are far friom misleading... again maybe my fauty for choice of words.
True EA gives endurance and a some defense but then again you are leaving out that Rooted protects from endurance drain.
I never said you needed lots of psi protection but since you brought it up lets not forget about the other Psi baddies to include late game Clocks, and since you brought Carnies into it Rooted works wonders vs. end drain while in melee... EA is nice for Ice but a nice AoE can still leave you out of end and detoggled at times.
I know most players would agree with your position about playing Ice over Stone minus Granite. I was just trying to stay close to the posted question with a very basic answer. I was not misleading... most of the points you brought up were either not asked or I touched on (Hibernate vs. Regen). I left out points because they were not asked and wanted to stay on topic.. and you left out some complete details also. I just tried to post a direct response to a direction a player may have been steared because of information, it was only an attempt to clarify that one position not to break down the complete set.
Anywho my fault on the verbage I guess... I guess the bottom line is you can/could lead without Granite but most players frown apon it.
Quote:
Against non psi mobs Ice will be far more survivable because of Chilling Embrace, it has -32% recharge and -14 damage - this equates to 46 % resistance to all damage types from mobs in melee.|
Originally Posted by Dissolution
Much better defense again.... vs. a soft cap is still 5% tohit... and Ice still has no defense vs. Psi which I didn't mind fisleading. But OK. IT's fairly minor but you also gain 10-15% resistance vs. s/l damage with Stone vs. 0% with Ice, I believe fire remains the same in the 20-30% range while the cold numbers strongly favor Ice.
True no movment penalty for Ice and it resists slow too.. I didn't know that was part of the discussion. Being kinda directed toward TP is a bummer but thats Stone I also mentioned a guiding factor "could" be Hibernate vs. regen through Rooted,and although I didn't spell out what the powers did I hardley find what I said misleading to the point of correction and maybe I used a wrong word, instead of misleading maybe I should of said something else. I agree with most of the descriptions you are giving but saying I am misleading is like saying you were because you forgot to mention you can't do anything in Hibernate since you are untouchable/phased and could lose aggro... and that just isnt so. You brought some points but are far friom misleading... again maybe my fauty for choice of words. True EA gives endurance and a some defense but then again you are leaving out that Rooted protects from endurance drain. I never said you needed lots of psi protection but since you brought it up lets not forget about the other Psi baddies to include late game Clocks, and since you brought Carnies into it Rooted works wonders vs. end drain while in melee... EA is nice for Ice but a nice AoE can still leave you out of end and detoggled at times. I know most players would agree with your position about playing Ice over Stone minus Granite. I was just trying to stay close to the posted question with a very basic answer. I was not misleading... most of the points you brought up were either not asked or I touched on (Hibernate vs. Regen). I left out points because they were not asked and wanted to stay on topic.. and you left out some complete details also. I just tried to post a direct response to a direction a player may have been steared because of information, it was only an attempt to clarify that one position not to break down the complete set. Anywho my fault on the verbage I guess... I guess the bottom line is you can/could lead without Granite but most players frown apon it. |
Personally I've found Psi to be a problem on my Ice Tank - I was running at +4 x8 on radio missions without much problem till I got an Arachnos mission. My nose hit the pavement within a minute of entering and most of that was in Hibernate.
I checked the logs and found the Fortunatas had a 95% chance to hit me.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
Quote:
True true... LOL then it all depemds on the roll.. regardless at times defense just epic fails.|
Originally Posted by Psiphon
Against non psi mobs Ice will be far more survivable because of Chilling Embrace, it has -32% recharge and -14 damage - this equates to 46 % resistance to all damage types from mobs in melee.
Personally I've found Psi to be a problem on my Ice Tank - I was running at +4 x8 on radio missions without much problem till I got an Arachnos mission. My nose hit the pavement within a minute of entering and most of that was in Hibernate. I checked the logs and found the Fortunatas had a 95% chance to hit me. |
Good point on CE!!
To the OP you can do it! It just might not be as easy as Ice... but you can do it.
I was on my Icer the other night doing Lady Grey and the Stoner we had fell often and hard while I got psi'ed from range once.
Bottom line is learn "YOUR" tank and you can do just as well as others in much safer sets! Have fun with your Stone
Quote:
This build would be unplayable outside of a respec and inside of a respec...I have zero faith in it. There are better ways of getting the same results. (And 3-slotting a set like Hecatomb is bad planning through-and-through.)
|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Doable, but going to be expensive:
|
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
Quote:
Oh, I didn't mean to say he can't do it, and I didn't mean to offend you by using the term misleading back at you (I wasn't offended by your term for the record, and hope you weren't by mine). I have used just Rock Armor, Minerals and Rooted (and of course Mudpots) to lead tank, but I also have Granite - which honestly makes more sense from an endurance management standpoint, but I digress. |
Originally Posted by Dissolution
True true... LOL then it all depemds on the roll.. regardless at times defense just epic fails.
Good point on CE!! To the OP you can do it! It just might not be as easy as Ice... but you can do it. I was on my Icer the other night doing Lady Grey and the Stoner we had fell often and hard while I got psi'ed from range once. Bottom line is learn "YOUR" tank and you can do just as well as others in much safer sets! Have fun with your Stone |
My only point was that I was confused by his question - why roll a stoner without granite when, for the most part in lead tank situations, when there are other all defense sets (okay, mostly defense sets) that do it better than stone sans granite. If he wants to, more power to him, and he absolutely can do it, but I'm just confused is all.
Good luck!
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
Quote:
Sorry, should have stated that this was just a quick throw-together. Not an actual meant-to-be-played build. Just something to give him an idea of what could be done to bump defenses. Still, he could sacrifice some of the defense and go for some actual resists.|
Originally Posted by LostHalo
This build would be unplayable outside of a respec and inside of a respec...I have zero faith in it. There are better ways of getting the same results. (And 3-slotting a set like Hecatomb is bad planning through-and-through.)
|
Still, Granite would probably be a better option regardless. Lower damage or not.
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Quote:
This is when I would recommend fight pool. I'd be able to do it but dubya,tee,eff you would do I would need a crystal ball for.
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Originally Posted by Plusone
Ok, I want Mud Pots so I can soak up hate like a sponge, but I hate granite, would it be silly to not take granite and try and tank using the lesser armors?
Would I still be able to alpha tank without Granite armor? |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Ok, I want Mud Pots so I can soak up hate like a sponge, but I hate granite, would it be silly to not take granite and try and tank using the lesser armors?
Would I still be able to alpha tank without Granite armor?