Character names becoming hard to come by
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-09-30 09:22 in Suggestions and Ideas
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well then, maybe you should just relax and realize that the game isn't about names. it is about playing with friends and having fun. if someone want's to name their fire/fire whatever Captain Corn Popper then thats fine with me. same as if someone want's to name their ice/ice or ice/cold or cold/ice Slushy Pants.
| I sometimes feel miffed that I create a cool serious character with a rich background and a fitting name yet have to deal with jokes like Senior Shaved-legs or XxxSiffirothxxX. |
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Peter Parker, Reporter Nerd just didn't have the same ring as The Amazing Spiderman.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Just how long spiderman would have lasted if Stan Lee hadn't thought of the name first back in 1962? I just don't see anyone buying a single issue of The Amazing Ihaven'tthoughtofacoolnameyet
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I thought Parker was a freelance photographer. I admit I don't follow the comic.
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Originally Posted by Noxilicious
Peter Parker, Reporter Nerd just didn't have the same ring as The Amazing Spiderman.
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Neither do I, so I'm probably wrong. My point still stands, though.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I thought Parker was a freelance photographer. I admit I don't follow the comic.
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While I personally don't have much trouble coming up with names, I see no reason why one could not continue to create 'unique' names if a system similar to CO's was implemented.
Frankly when I started playing CO, I was concerned I'd see dozens and dozens of the same names... it never happened. It ended up being a worry looking for a problem that didn't exist in any measurable quantity. Keeping in mind too that in CO, you're all on one big server* - that means that as I travel through the game I come across players who would, in CoH, be permanently locked away from me by virtue of being on another server. So such a system in CoH would be even less likely to run into this problem.
What it does do - and the reason I enjoy it; is allow people to simply enjoy the game without needing to jump through hoops. If, for example, you come up with a character, and a name strikes your fancy - be it outlandish or simple - you WILL get it. There's no running around with a phrase above your head if you don't want one. That's trickier here, and unnecessarily so. Keep in mind that some people *want* to be "Brick Guy" - why shouldn't they be? Why should your opinion of how 'common' or 'stupid' their name mean anything?
Heck, look at the big name super-heroes in comic books... "Batman" - Really? Bat-Man? Spider-Man? Dark-Hawk? Most comic book names are simple and evocative for a reason. They're either an attention grabber, a descriptor, or both. (In most cases, I'm not a huge comic fan so certainly there are edge cases I don't know of.)
Basically what I'm saying is - common names are not bad. Simple is not bad. Neither is complex, wordy, or highbrow. They're just preferences. The idea that people should have to 'be more creative' when playing a game... well it's a bit absurd. Some people will be creative of course - I pride myself on it, even. Not everyone is me though, nor should they be. If someone wants to make "Electric Chick" - hey, who am I to say no?
I guess the argument against 'common' or 'simple' names - which exist across the super-hero spectrum for a darn good reason... well it strikes me as silly. Actually I should say it strikes me more as trying to defend something that doesn't need defending. CoH is a fantastic game - that doesn't mean there aren't parts that are downright archaic and could use an update. It feels almost like a reflexive reaction, rather than a genuine observation of how such a change might actually work out; and I don't think that's generally wise.
I personally think CO's naming system is a distinct improvement for the MMO genre as a whole. Is it perfect? Nope. I'd love a way to (as someone else suggested) tie a face-name to a specific character so that when you type in that name in a /tell without the @gname afterward, you always get the right person.
But the arguments leveled against it here just do not hold much water. Your uniqueness will remain untouched under such a system - because either
A) The name really is quite unique, and thus esoteric enough it's highly unlikely anyone else will pick it up by coincidence.
B) The name wasn't actually unique, you just happened to snag it first. In which case you very likely have one of those 'common' names, and really don't have anything to complain about.
There's also this factor - Your costume and bio. This is where a person's creativity really gets expressed in this game. This is what genuinely defines who the character is, why they are, what they are. Two characters named "Fireball" may have 180 degree different origins with fundamentally different sources of power.
This is where you're uniqueness really comes from. If your name is neat, but your costume is crap and you have no bio - you aren't all that unique. You may like it - which is entirely fine - but again it leaves the 'uniqueness' argument hanging in the wind.
--- TL;DR ---
- Most of the worries expressed here seem unfounded and reflexive and do not match what I've experienced under CO's naming system.
- Uniqueness is based on far more than a name. It's a combination of your name, costume, and bio. In other words - your name isn't unique; it's your *character* that is unique.
- Simple is not bad. Simple names are commonplace in comic books for a reason. Likewise complex is not necessarily good. There's a reason we have the phrase "Keep it Simple, Stupid" after all. (Of course to make absolutely clear what I'm saying, that doesn't mean complex names are at all bad - I use them myself a good bit after all. Nor am I calling anyone stupid that's just a recitation of the phrase.)
- If you love using a thesaurus to come up with unusual names - keep doing it! What, precisely, would be stopping you?
- Finally - The game is about fun. Expressing creativity can be enjoyable; but it is not the purpose of the game. As such, letting people have their fun, even if it's simple and 'uncreative' - if they're having fun that means they're putting money in the till; which means more longevity and development for the game.
*CO is one big server, however it's divided largely into small 100-person instances. Just the same, every time you zone, unless you studiously pick a specific instance every time, you wind up in a different instance. Over time you end up mingling with much of the game's populace. Obviously you'll never see everyone, but you'll eventually see more individual characters than you will on a typical CoH server just by virtue of how compact the game is.
Note: None of the above is addressed to any one individual. I'm just sharing my thoughts in-general.
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/this. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I like the fact that, if you see a Claws/Regen scrapper named Claws and Effect on Pinnacle, you know, without a shadow of a doubt, that it is ME.
Not one of any number of people who thought the name was clever and decided to use it. What Samuel Tow said holds true. People that are well known in this community are recognizable if they are on their signature characters. Yes, we have signature characters, just like the devs take the identity of the signature heroes in the game. Bill Z Bubba, Friggin' Taser, Claws and Effect, and anyone else you care to name. Those are our identities in the context of this game. My real name is Chris. A very common name. Within the world of City of Heroes, I am Claws and Effect. There is no other person known as that. (at least not on my server) I go by Claws for short, because you can type it faster, or C&E. If someone says "Hi Claws" in a global channel, they are talking to me, and no one else. It would suck if someone said "Hi Claws" and then had to clarify who exactly they meant. |
You have to go out of your way to be Memphis Bill anywhere - because, y'know, I happen to have different versions of him everywhere (Tanks, scrappers, a warshade, a brute...)
Even in game, per bio his name's William. And you can click on civilians and run across any number of williams.
And yes, from the above - I've been recognized in-game. I've run across Samuel Tow, BillZBubba, Beef Cake, and numerous other individuals who had instant recognition from the forums. When AE was introduced, it was interesting - I was on another brute most of the time, specifically *because* I wanted to poke around (I'd been working on the tutorials in the guide section.) Switched over to the copy of Memphis Bill I'd sent to the test server and had several people ask where I'd been - I had to mention I'd been *right there,* right next to several of them, just on another character. But switching to MB there was no doubt it was me. Recognition *is* a factor, here.
(And no, my global's not @memphis bill.)
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Just to touch on this point, people have had 5 years less to take names. | Most of the worries expressed here seem unfounded and reflexive and do not match what I've experienced under CO's naming system |
I, personally, would be incredibly narked to find somebody running around with the same name I've had on my signature player since CoH launched.
However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator
I think claiming you don't see repeats in a system that allows it sounds like an argument for not bothering to implement it...maybe it's just me.
They should just attach everyone's global to the end of their character's names, hidden or not. That way, anyone can have any non-restricted name.
Just look at Champions Online. That's what they did. It was one of their only great ideas...
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So I'm guessing you didn't bother to slog thru the entire thread before posting, didja?|
Originally Posted by Joe_Blow
They should just attach everyone's global to the end of their character's names, hidden or not. That way, anyone can have any non-restricted name.
Just look at Champions Online. That's what they did. It was one of their only great ideas... |
There are some pretty strenuous objections to doing that which have been expressed multiple times throughout the thread, so I won't repeat them here except to say - NO THANK YOU.
BTW - my newest baby alt - on Infinity - is Voltaic Amber, an Electric/Electric scrapper based around the discovery of an Amber magical amulet. Names are still out there if you take a minute or two to think about them.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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The thing is nearly everyone posting to this thread has given you and the OP tools for solving your difficulty in finding a name.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Meh, I was just suggesting something that might help me and the OP out with the name difficulty issue. As is, I bearly have the money to pay for my 1 account (and I still have to periodically shut down the account) so I'm not paying for extras like switching servers.
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Including, but not restricted to:
Thesaurus or here, or here, or here. (Personally, I like my book.)
Dictionary, or here, or here, or here.
Translation websites, or here, or here, or here, or here.
Encyclopedia
Mythology
Character Name Generator, or here, or here, or here, or here, or here.
Baby Names
etc...
etc...
etc...
If a minuscule amount of people are unwilling to utilize any of the suggestions given by myself or others, then the game and it's design are not at fault.
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I found that highly *irritating* when I was there, TBH. Just one of many things. (Along with the "Stretch Armstrong" characters that only had one face, unless you chose to hide it with something, tails sticking straight out the back, the plastic look, the "everyone stand around and wait for this to respawn," ....)
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Originally Posted by Joe_Blow
They should just attach everyone's global to the end of their character's names, hidden or not. That way, anyone can have any non-restricted name.
Just look at Champions Online. That's what they did. It was one of their only great ideas... |
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I wholeheartedly agree. I have a ton of ice/cold themed characters, and each one gets a little more difficult to come up with a name. However, I do not like the idea of vets, self included, getting priority on names in any way, form or fashion. First come, first serve. Just get a little creative. And this is coming from someone who has timed out on the 'Enter your name' screen, numerous times.
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Originally Posted by Jadeus
I have noticed that when I create a new character that the hardest part of character creation has been finding a name that is not already in use.
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-= idspispopd =-
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Some suggestions for coming up with your own unique name...
1) Use a Thesaurus
Is the name "Sovereign Right" taken? Try using synonyms like "Sovereign Will" or "Sovereign Law". Are those names taken too? Keep trying different synonyms. I recently made a character named "Sovereign Creed" after trying different names with "Sovereign" in them. (Also, I already tried those names above. They're already taken. =P)
2) Try a different language
You have to be careful with this one. Someone already pointed out that you may end up with an incorrect translation. You may want to use a single word for a name if you're using another language. Because "Ensayo" sounds a whole lot cooler than "Trial"
3) Numbers don't ALWAYS hurt
Spelling out numbers sometimes takes away the pain of using regular numbers. Also, try using them in a way that makes sense. Instead of "Prototype15235", which is incredibly painful to look at (for me, anyways) try something simple like "Prototype-Fifteen", which looks way more appealing.
hope this helps. =D
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Wow, is it just me or are people getting more and more narrow minded when reading posts? It definitely ain't me.| If a minuscule amount of people are unwilling to utilize any of the suggestions given by myself or others, then the game and it's design are not at fault. |
Just to be clear, I *NEVER*
...let me repeat that.
*NEVER*
...suggested anything that circumvented using the suggestions already posted in this thread. All I suggest is more time to think up one. If you're gonna quote someone, perhaps you should actually *read* their post and understand their stance on the subject. Because I don't need links to name generators or thesauruses.
I've read some of the criticisms of my particular suggestion and understand that I might be he only person to use the option...and not even all the time. But it's an option. It's not hurting anyone if I (or anyone who isn't that creative) with names decides to put it off until later. Is it? If so, explain.
[EDIT]
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| Just how long spiderman would have lasted if Stan Lee hadn't thought of the name first back in 1962? I just don't see anyone buying a single issue of The Amazing Ihaven'tthoughtofacoolnameyet |
That doesn't stop the artist/author from actually drawing/writing and putting the character out there. For example (even though I don't agree with the analogy of being the author of the character. It's a RPG, not an endorsement deal. I am *playing* the character, not selling him) Lucas didn't have a name for Luke though the first drafts (who went from being a girl to an aged general to a boy) and went through several names before finally naming the character after himself. The any names before were placeholders until they settled on Starkiller and pushing it out for publication. Century Fox didn't like it so it was changed to Skywalker.
The 'placeholder' names are essentially what I was suggesting. The changing from Starkiller to Skywalker is pretty much a requested name change that you'd have to purchase.
...but again, I find equating the player as the author and therefore you must have a name otherwise you're a forgetful hack writer absurd. Like I'm creating a complete character right at the start. That's is just dumb and flies in the face of an RPG. You're not publishing a completed character, you're creating a new *incomplete* character that *becomes* complete as you play and experience the game. You can give him a reason to fight but that doesn't equate to needing a name (I mean a moniker, I name all my characters but they don't go walking around being called by their first and last names). Already gave an example of someone sort of 'earning' a moniker too so really, it's not completely out of left field.
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Hey, Leo, I understand your suggestion. And it really is something different from the OP's complaint about names being scarce.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
<snip> I've read some of the criticisms of my particular suggestion and understand that I might be he only person to use the option...and not even all the time. But it's an option. It's not hurting anyone if I (or anyone who isn't that creative) with names decides to put it off until later. Is it? If so, explain. <snip> That doesn't stop the artist/author from actually drawing/writing and putting the character out there. For example (even though I don't agree with the analogy of being the author of the character. It's a RPG, not an endorsement deal. I am *playing* the character, not selling him) Lucas didn't have a name for Luke though the first drafts (who went from being a girl to an aged general to a boy) and went through several names before finally naming the character after himself. The any names before were placeholders until they settled on Starkiller and pushing it out for publication. Century Fox didn't like it so it was changed to Skywalker. The 'placeholder' names are essentially what I was suggesting. The changing from Starkiller to Skywalker is pretty much a requested name change that you'd have to purchase. ...but again, I find equating the player as the author and therefore you must have a name otherwise you're a forgetful hack writer absurd. Like I'm creating a complete character right at the start. That's is just dumb and flies in the face of an RPG. You're not publishing a completed character, you're creating a new *incomplete* character that *becomes* complete as you play and experience the game. You can give him a reason to fight but that doesn't equate to needing a name (I mean a moniker, I name all my characters but they don't go walking around being called by their first and last names). Already gave an example of someone sort of 'earning' a moniker too so really, it's not completely out of left field. |
But I'm afraid I have to say that unless it's incredibly easy programming for the Devs to put your idea into the game, I would vote "thumbs down" on it because I honestly don't think it's all that necessary. It would be hard to quantify it, but I doubt that there are that many people who develop another name for a character (even to replace a placeholder) after the character gets its start in the game. I'm thinking that the huge majority of characters never change their names - partly because there is a cost involved, but mainly because the character is the name it is from the beginning in the player's mind.
If we had lots of people in this thread supporting the need for allowing a placeholder name to be used until the character develops, or if I had ever seen anyone upset that they had a character develop into another name after it was played for 5-10 levels, then I might support your idea a bit more - but it really seems to be a niche idea.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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Despite your belief to the contrary you keep proving my point without realizing it. |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Wow, is it just me or are people getting more and more narrow minded when reading posts? It definitely ain't me.
Just to be clear, I *NEVER* ...let me repeat that. *NEVER* ...suggested anything that circumvented using the suggestions already posted in this thread. All I suggest is more time to think up one. If you're gonna quote someone, perhaps you should actually *read* their post and understand their stance on the subject. Because I don't need links to name generators or thesauruses. I've read some of the criticisms of my particular suggestion and understand that I might be he only person to use the option...and not even all the time. But it's an option. It's not hurting anyone if I (or anyone who isn't that creative) with names decides to put it off until later. Is it? If so, explain. [EDIT] But back in 1962 is the equivalent of issue 2 in CoH where names are abundant. Now is the equivalent of dealing with masses of trademark issues. You can't just pick a name at random otherwise you might get a lawsuit. That doesn't stop the artist/author from actually drawing/writing and putting the character out there. For example (even though I don't agree with the analogy of being the author of the character. It's a RPG, not an endorsement deal. I am *playing* the character, not selling him) Lucas didn't have a name for Luke though the first drafts (who went from being a girl to an aged general to a boy) and went through several names before finally naming the character after himself. The any names before were placeholders until they settled on Starkiller and pushing it out for publication. Century Fox didn't like it so it was changed to Skywalker. The 'placeholder' names are essentially what I was suggesting. The changing from Starkiller to Skywalker is pretty much a requested name change that you'd have to purchase. ...but again, I find equating the player as the author and therefore you must have a name otherwise you're a forgetful hack writer absurd. Like I'm creating a complete character right at the start. That's is just dumb and flies in the face of an RPG. You're not publishing a completed character, you're creating a new *incomplete* character that *becomes* complete as you play and experience the game. You can give him a reason to fight but that doesn't equate to needing a name (I mean a moniker, I name all my characters but they don't go walking around being called by their first and last names). Already gave an example of someone sort of 'earning' a moniker too so really, it's not completely out of left field. |
No author is going to get a story published without deciding on character names first.
Century Fox isn't going to decide 1 month after a movie has been in theaters to change the names of the characters.
Sure as a storyline develops a name change might be appropriate, but that's completely different from what your asking for.
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Except I saw the exact same complaints in almost the exact same threads back in I2. Almost word-for-word, in fact. The "good names" ran out the day the game opened its doors and any perceived decline in their availability, if it even exists, is vastly, vastly exaggerated. The names you can think of off-hand on a moment's notice, people thought of off-hand the moment their preorders arrived. Everything made since then has been reaching farther and farther from the obvious and direct and into the kind of names people who make these threads are violently opposed to using. If anything is running out, it's the OBSCURE names.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
But back in 1962 is the equivalent of issue 2 in CoH where names are abundant. Now is the equivalent of dealing with masses of trademark issues. You can't just pick a name at random otherwise you might get a lawsuit.
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| ...but again, I find equating the player as the author and therefore you must have a name otherwise you're a forgetful hack writer absurd. Like I'm creating a complete character right at the start. That's is just dumb and flies in the face of an RPG. You're not publishing a completed character, you're creating a new *incomplete* character that *becomes* complete as you play and experience the game. You can give him a reason to fight but that doesn't equate to needing a name (I mean a moniker, I name all my characters but they don't go walking around being called by their first and last names). Already gave an example of someone sort of 'earning' a moniker too so really, it's not completely out of left field. |
It is, however a very BAD thing if you have either an old, established character to remake, or a specific concept you want to push through. In this case, allowing things to develop naturally is out of the question, as writing the character is done to a large extent, and so who he will be and what he will developed like is decided. In this case, you need to start with the right concept. Unfortunately, this also means starting with the right name, which can REALLY suck if your character already has a name that's been decided upon before you even got into the game, like my namesake character. Back in May of 2004, my namesake character went through a few tries (Sam -> Samuel -> Samuel Tow, his full name at the time) before I got something that worked. Still, there are ways around that, as well, even if it has to be The Artist Fromarly Known as Samuel Tow.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Okay, as far as 'placeholder names', the only things that might be easy to program for randomly generated names are "Generic (numbers)", completely random names like "3fheg8vsyn764", or something like "(Adjective) (Noun)" or "(Noun/Adjective/Verb[ing]/Verb[ed]) (Man/Woman/etc.)" HOWEVER....
- I dunno about you, but I tend to assume that anyone called "Generic (numbers)" is someone who got punished for using an trademarked or innappropriate name, and avoid them. Especially if they're one of those builds like Claws/Regen or Invuln/Super Strength.
- 3fheg8vsyn764 is gonna have trouble finding a team if everyone assumes he's a gold farmer. And I highly doubt the alternative of teaming with ACTUAL gold farmers would be any fun. And God help him if he sends an ingame Email to someone complimenting their costume, only for them to report it as spam without reading it.*
- And finally, if the last options were used...it would only be a matter of time before someone made a thread claiming that the random temp-name generator is eating up ALL the good Golden and Silver Age-type names.
Formerly known as Stormy_D
Just last week I came up with a new name by flipping through a guitar magazine. "Ibenez Heart"*. Sounded good to me so I used it. 
*I admit a good bio is going to be harder for that one....I'm still working on it.
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That's a good point.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Velocity
I'm sure there are brilliant people out there who can think of alternative names, but there really is no point in retaining the status quo. The brilliant people can continue being unique even if the system were changed.
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LeoG: I understand your difficulty. My characters' personalities sometimes take a while in play to gel. But I consider the task of coming up with a good name and decent costume for them to be an essential part of the pre-play phase, and not just because the game mechanics force it on us (because there are any number of practical, mechanical reasons to require a unique identifier for each character). I've been known to spend days pondering these issues before pressing the "Create New Character" button.
I know you want to just jump in and start swinging, blasting, whatever. But we're talking about an alter-ego that you're going to be playing/inhabiting for hundreds of hours. Isn't it worth taking a few to get it right at the start?
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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That's what I do already. Because there is no other option for me.| I know you want to just jump in and start swinging, blasting, whatever. But we're talking about an alter-ego that you're going to be playing/inhabiting for hundreds of hours. Isn't it worth taking a few to get it right at the start? |
But then I just don't put much weight in names. If you can get a really good and fitting name then great but I really only try not to make names that are dumb sounding when NPCs say it on the streets. Because if you need to make a name so obscure you need a dictionary or need to know another language to 'get', it really doesn't matter.
With thousands of players making tens of names each, it is indeed becoming more difficult to get it right...
Still, I've gotten some nice dictionary words and simple phrases for names...granted that they were mostly on Triumph.
Deprogrammer, Fruitcake, Crackles, Grumbles, Raving, Unresistable (granted that it's not a real word, but it almost is), Enraged Citizen, Clear Blue Skies... Oh, here's a fun one. Pwny.
Heck, here's the rest of my list of names while I'm at it. Only one has punctuation, and that's only because I wanted it.
Ferrous Jen, Minimate, Maximate, Miximate, Chunkz, Nanobyte, Frozen Cap, Techno Necro Nirate, Masculine Widow, Coy Mase, Culler Dores, Sweet Blue, Alexei Novikov, Homez, Har D, Warpflash, UnProgrammer, Dark Cliche Man, Rid Lee, Green Comma, Ekusai, Etaminaer, Sam Aaron, Don Smart, A. Biggs, Bub Rock, Pink Pi Hunter, Guyaume Zapper, Cassey, Hitless, Miss TSS, Ollive
On the same token, when creating your character, you are not your character, but your character's author. And honestly now: Which self-respecting author forgets to name their characters when writing their stories and only comes up with one halway through? Especially after the first half has already been published?
I can see why people want something similar to CO's naming system. I don't, and I personally prefer the current, restrictive naming system much in the same way I like sonnets, but I can see where those people are coming from.
Your suggestion to have a mid-way namechange or something, however, seems awfully specific. Right now, I'm just not convinced it's something the playerbase needs but rather something you, as a single individual, wants. That's fair enough, mind, but unless you can rally up some more support for your specific idea, I'm just not convinced it's something the playerbase would largely benefit from and encourage long-term subscriptions.