Empathy would work with . . . ?

Howdy All,

Things are moving along with my plant/storm build and all the other little alts out there across the servers. I am now looking at a new build that would include Empathy as it's secondary. I've really enjoyed the other secondaries and have really found /Storm my favorite. I figured it was time to bring something online with an Empathy secondary.

I plan on running it as both solo and teaming. I'll create a dual build so I can switch between the two, when solo, I'll focus on damage attacks and when teamed, more toward support. I'm just stuck on what primary would best work. I have all three vet attack powers (Black Wand, Nemesis Staff, Sands of Mu) so until I get a few primary powers under my belt, I'll still be able to do some damage. My build will also include Air Super for the additional damage again helping in the lower levels. I'm not quite at 60 months for travel powers at lvl 6, but I'm so close, like another month or two.


The three I'm looking at are :

1) Illusion

Solo - High damage, aggro control at 18 with PA, Invis, Phantom to use buffs on at 32.

Team - Group Invs for stealthing and defense, PA to help when no tank is around and scrappers can use some cover, Good single target hold, Good AoE hold, Good Single Target damage.

2) Fire

Solo - AoE Stuns, Single Target Hold, Single Target Immob, AoE Immob, Acc Debuff from Smoke, Damage from Hot Feet, Pets that can be buffed (timer may only allow one or two to get major buff ).

Team - Acc Debuff, AoE Hold, AoE Immob, Pets to add damage, AoE Stun.

3) Earth

Solo - AoE Debuffs / Slows, Knockback / Knockup, AoE Immob, AoE Hold, Single Target Hold, Single Target Immob, Pet that can be buffed.

Team - AoE Debuffs / Slows, Knockback / Knockup, Pet that can tank. Holds and Immob that -Defenses to help party.

I'm finding it hard to choose. Any one of them will work great. Not to mention the others, like Grav, Plant, Ice and Mind. AUGH!!!! So many options, I can't decide.

What have you paired with /Emp ?

i have and ice/emp troller and hes great!..nothign like buffing jack with fort and ab! not to mention yourself with the auras!

solo wise it isnt great at all for lvling speed but for teams?..hell yeah!

I play a level 50 Ill/Emp on Champion. She is by far the best support char I've seen.
While the Spectral Terror Scares, the PA tank, and the Phantasm do your dmg, you can focus on heals and buffs, you can even throw in the occasional blind and AoE blast from your epic pool.

Solo though, Mine can do just fine, and though it may not pump out super AoE dmg, (maybe thats just my ST oriented and Team Oriented builds fault) with enough +Rech IOs I dunno, you might even be able to try and AV? Might take a while though.

But, I'm biased, not only have I never played anyother Emp toon but I have only played other Troller primaries with the Uber Powerful Kin and more recently /Cold. (Who's a blast atm. Earth/Cold)

I've played Fire/Emp, Earth/Emp and Illusion/Emp all to level 50. I've played Ice/Empathy to level 36. I like them all quite a bit, though Ice/Emp left me a bit cold.

My problem with Ice/Empathy is more about Ice Control itself (the primary). The type of control it brings to the table leaves me a bit unsatisfied unless it is paired with a strong control secondary. That's why I haven't played mine past level 36 yet.

All of the other three were awesome.

I think the Illusion/Empathy combo is the more ultimate stealth / aggro-free team support character. You can totally lay back, keeping everyone alive and keeping the foes distracted with little overall risk to yourself. Illusion/Empathy makes me feel like I am hanging back and playing a guardian angel type character. I teamed most of the time, but thanks to PA and Phantasm and Deceive, soloing was an option that I did indulge in (from time to time) at pretty much all phases of my career.

The Earth/Empathy character is just as strong as Illusion/Empathy in terms of team support, but there is no question (to your allies or your enemies) that you are there. Basically, Earth Control is a massive "HERE I AM" control set, which has so much going for the primary that you can feel like an uber controller no matter what secondary you have. I teamed all the way from 1-50 and I almost never soloed, though I was able to do so from 34 on (I didnt bother slotting up personal attacks until I got my level 41+ ancillary options).

Fire/Empathy is a special case for me. I'm discussing it last because I have the most rambling comments to make about it. It was the first Empath I ever played. Fire/Empathy was the build that converted me from "Empathy?! BAH!" to "Hey, this is pretty cool." I had this project (which I completed) where I was taking all the Fire/X controllers to level 50, so eventually I got to this one. I started out playing it grudgingly. On the other hand, I was curious, and I wanted to learn the set, so I didnt really worry about the damage potential I could have had with Hot Feet and Fire Cages and personal attacks (Ring of Fire, Air Superiority). Instead, I played this one with a touch of Char and Flashfire (and occasionally Bonfire). I didnt worry about Cinders or Hot Feet at all. I leaned heavily on the Empathy powers instead. Basically, I played this one as 100% team support without thought of personal damage, even after I got Fire Imps. I ignored my own personal damage capabilities for a long time.

Eventually, I think around level 39 or 40, I found that Fire/Empathy was a great middle ground between solo and team support. I decided to use a respec to opt back into Hot Feet. I tricked out all my powers to where I could support a team, or support myself and my Fire Imps while killing things on my own. I quickly added a few ancillary attacks in the 40s, and the ability to solo became even better. Of course, I had my Empathy foundations, so I could kick back, team it up, and play less aggressively as well. I found that I played 50% solo and 50% team support with my Fire/Empathy character from that point on.

So, I guess the Fire/Empathy is probably my favorite, due to the more hybrid feel. However, it is a close call. Earth and Illusion are my favorite primaries overall, so Illusion/Emp and Earth/Emp are certainly up there. Maybe Fire/Empathy has a special feeling to me because it was my first.

Anyway, you'll just have to dive in. You might not like them at all, or you may have different reasons for liking them. I'm sure there will be Ice/Emp, Grav/Emp, Mind/Emp and Plant/Emp players who love theirs. I do have to say that Grav/Emp seems like it would be a slice of hell (in the bad way) to me. It doesnt seem like it would have enough control for me, esp at the levels during which I'm most likely to quit. On the other hand, I'm sure somebody out there loves theirs.

So, pick yer poison!

Lewis

Empathy is one of my favorite powersets (and certainly the one I have tried the most).

My highest controller was a Mind/Empathy, but I also leveled at least to SO levels with Ice, Illusion and Fire.

By far the best soloers (pre-pet) were Illusion and Mind. I know, Mind doesnt get pets, but this character was a dedicated TEAM player. very little soloing after level 20.

Fire and Ice were both decent characters, good Team support with slower solo ability, but they both had the same tendancy to create situations where you had to decide between using primary powers or secondary powers. This made the combinations really good once you got into a rythm, but much harder to learn (in my experience).

So, what I am trying to say I guess, is try to look at your primary choices with a "set-and-forget" slant. You will not use your active empathy powers that much on a team if you have to micromanage your primaries alot.

If I were to go with Empathy again on a controller, I would probably go Illusion.
Solo has really nice effectiveness and in a group you should find that you have more "Free" time to throw out some heals. And you want to have a buffable pet with Empathy. PA cannot be buffed, but I am pretty sure Phantasm can.

Ill/Emp, it's the Jaguar of support.

Yeah, making Controller alts is addictive. Some of the Control sets I dont quite like enough to make every combination, but there are a lot of good ones out there. Enjoy!

Lewis

I have an earth/emp and have a blast playing him, currently he's at level 42 and although earth may be an in your face control set it it has 3 very effective powers which can all be dropped from around corners to lead off Volcanic gasses, Earthquake and quicksand so it's reletivly easy to negate a alpha with no harm to yourself or anyone for that matter.

Earth also has minus defence in it's powers which will help your vet attacks hit much more easily threw your whole career. And solo fortitude on rocky gives him more damage which is always good.

Yeah, I love earth control, but I dont find Volcanic Gasses to be as strong as it used to be. Some quasi-recent change somehow nerfed how the individual pets work I think. I always have to back up VG with something else. I used to be able to just drop it and not worry, even on many Bosses. Now it seems that I'm still getting lots of pot shots from foes in the VG even through out the whole duration (not just alpha).

So, yeah, I love Earth Control, and Earth/Empathy is a lot of fun, but somehow Earth isnt like it used to be.

Lewis

When I tried /Emp, my first attempt was a Fire/Emp who just didn't do it for me. Then I made Brittany Fears my Ill/Emp and I fell in love with Illusion all over again. The combination of Blind + focused single target damage to eliminate threats quickly + deceive to fill in the gaps + an occasional heal to take care of spill through made her a real pleasure to play as early as 4th level, and she just kept getting better.

I don't play her often, mostly when some friends have a character at her level that they're working on but I am always pleasantly surprised whenever I dust her off at the the elegant flow of her progress through encounters,and the availability of something wonderful to do as every new threat arises. I have to admit, the RP aspect is a lot of fun too... I made her before the RL crash and burn so I tend to think of her in that mode of super-stardom before the fall and she delivers on it.

Anyway Ill/Emp gets my vote.

@Lewis I've notice that Earth isn't what it used to be too. It's surprising to me how much the recharge nerf to pseudo pets gutted the awesomeness of a procced Volcanic Gasses. That's really the only major change I can think of but it really lowered her overall power from Godlike to just very, very good.

Ill/Emp was my first 50, and I still play him. Good fun, fits themeatically. Great for teaming, good for soloing.

Im a little surprised by the lack of grav/emp builds. I have one nearly to 50 now I think it's fantastic. With the grav holds, singularity and propell plus hasten, I can solo all day. Mostly Im on full teams and my mates LOVE my empathy power.\

Here's my build:

Everytime I see an Illu/emp I want to murder them >.<

Maybe because i'm a bit min/max with illusion and I feel the /NEED/ to aim for perma PA, and without being a /rad or /kin it's damn hard, if not impossible.

And you don't have debuffs to make your PA better, and cannot buff them with fortitude... =/

I have a plant/emp, I love her Seeds is one of the best controls in the game and with perma creepers I dont even bother about my damage!

Last on my list would be Gravity. The pet can't be healed, and Gravity isn't the strongest control set to begin with.

Plant, Earth, Fire, Illusion, and Mind have been covered. I wanted to bring up Ice. I don't have a Ice/Empathy, but I do have an Ice/Thermal.

Ice Control is a weird set. It's ridiculously powerful in some ways and really gimped in others. One of the main issues is that Ice tends to get shot at. A lot. Ice powers slow down the rate of fire, and Ice Slick can stop a lot of shots, but in the end you and your team get hit occasionally. Your pet is also much more fragile than the Earth guy. This means having a heal is really useful.

Now, the second part of this is that getting hit with a mezz detoggles one of your best controls, Arctic Air. So, Ice is very vulnerable to cascading failures. A single mezz can detoggle you, speeding up the rate of enemy attacks while simultaneously cutting off HP restoration. Then you and your team die. This can get really frustrating.

Where Ice is great is during long fights, fights with bosses, or against enemies with mezz protection. It turns out this is often when healing is useful too. Because Ice relies on recharge debuffs instead of binary status effects, Ice can shut down enemy powers to the point where the enemy just wants to run (slowly) away.

Where Ice is weak is in short fights, against things with knockdown immunity, or against anything with speed or recharge resistance.