Not Sure how to Title this?
I believe you should have posted this in the scrapper forums.
Nope.
He posted here to show off a relatively cheap build.
If he'd posted in the scrapper forum, he would get advice on how he could improve his build slightly for only 2 billion or so more. ^_^
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
If he'd posted in the scrapper forum, he would get advise on how he could improve his build slightly for only 2 billion or so more. ^_^ |
I think this post is perfectly fine. It is a perfect example of what can be done to make a solid character with very minimal investment on the market. The OP geared it mostly to the fact that a good build can be build without having to go for all the uber shinies. |
Active 50s:
Zero Defex: DP/MM//Mace Blaster
Mutant X-7: Fire/MM//Mace Blaster
Running my Kin/EA gloriously
Come on I21!!!
Sure, the devs are supposed to listen to their customers, mister business 101 out there. And if I decide to start suggesting that the devs change the game from being about superheroes and supervillains to being about clowns that is my right as well, and technically Paragon Studios is supposed to pay attention to me. But I hope strongly that they assume a meth-head somehow managed to hack into my forum account and make paper airplanes out of my posts, because I hope they recognize stupid when they see it. I assume they will recognize futile just as accurately.
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lmao. Then I'd have to post here to either 1 learn how to make the 2 bill, or cry that I can't make enough infl!
And thanks for fully grasping what I wanted to say. I hopefully didn't come off as too much of a "hater" toward "those less fortunate" but it has really started to grate on me seeing all the "ME WANT SHINY" threads. Hopefully I didn't come off as too much of an ***. |
Nope.
He posted here to show off a relatively cheap build. If he'd posted in the scrapper forum, he would get advice on how he could improve his build slightly for only 2 billion or so more. ^_^ |
I think this post is perfectly fine. It is a perfect example of what can be done to make a solid character with very minimal investment on the market. The OP geared it mostly to the fact that a good build can be build without having to go for all the uber shinies.
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You should title it "How to Make More with Less".
I see a lot of similarities in your build and IO sets with my scrapper's low-cost build, including the KC's, MS's, TotH and other IO sets which can be bought for a song and dance. I can't claim I spent only 100m - it was probably closer to 200m with the vast majority of the cost being for the 'luxury' of the three health uniques, the LotG +rech's and a small collection of 5 uniques/procs; the rest of it came very cheaply, partly by choosing the cheaper sets which still provided what I was looking for in the build. One nice thing about the cheaper IO sets is that they're very inexpensive to level upgrade as you level up, too. I've been careful to save the inf I've built up (now over 1b) for a (first and) final respec build, which in all honesty won't be all that much better than the build she has now, and may not even require most of the inf I've saved.
Nice work.
Kinetic Combat triple-aspects are going for 50 mil redside, none for sale currently.
Are these markedly cheaper for Heroes?
Usually everything is cheaper blueside.
I know that the early level IO sets are there for use, but, as far as cheap builds go, I would say don't bother with IO sets until you get into the 40's - unless you can get sets pretty cheap or you are just slotting procs.
My general enhancement plan works like this. (all the sub options are listed in order of what I generally end up doing. Some or all of the sub steps happen, but, generally, they always end up happening in this order if they end up happening)
When I start off my character,
- I usually fight until I have a couple of hundred inf, then work the market until I have a couple thousand inf.
- Get invited to one of my sg's and sell some stock IO's to start cash rolling.
- Get invited to a sg, and get some inf transfered to my character to get things rolling.
I start buying DO's at 12 or, as soon as I can there after - if it's a good team I keep rolling. By this point, I usually have memorized a couple of recipes, selling what I can make, selling what I don't need, buying what I will need (long term), and looking for stuff that's cheap for my own use (long term) and sometimes to flip.
If I have some level 15 IO's laying around, or extra inf and have the stuff to make some 15 IO's I'll sometimes make them.
At 17, I start slotting IO's. I don't use SO's because even though they are more powerful at some points than IO's - IO's don't turn red. I really like that.
If I get procs for drops or I find them cheap, I probably will slot them or drop them in a base for other sg members or my other characters to use.
Generally, I do try to craft IO sets if I get them as drops. At which point, I drop them into base salvage - which I try to keep sorted (argh). If it happens that I have a couple IO's of the same set, I may slot them. In general, I don't slot IO sets until I get into the 40's. Sometimes I don't bother with IO sets until I hit level 50 - if then.
Training to level 10, DO's at 15, IO's at 20, and IO's and IO sets at level 40+ is pretty much my plan.
Some people I know are taking the route to try to slot some SO's as soon as they can. I've seen some SO's in the low teens. They are pretty powerful, but they do go bad just like training and DO's do, and it seems a waste of the inf to me.
Keep in mind that the game is very playable by using trainings until you can the loot to slot DO's, and DO's until you can get the loot to slot SO's.
Level 50 content can be completed with SO's.
I also have the advantage of having so many characters that I'm kind of on the long term project range on every one of them. That is to say, I don't have to rush to get stuff, I can wait.
Patience pays off.
Kinetic Combat triple-aspects are going for 50 mil redside, none for sale currently.
Are these markedly cheaper for Heroes? |
last time I sold one which was maybe 2 weeks ago they were selling for 70 million so, I'm not sure if their still that high but with drops being the way they are right now I'm gonna have to take an educated guess and say yes
Kinetic Combat triple-aspects are going for 50 mil redside, none for sale currently.
Are these markedly cheaper for Heroes? |
I also used lvl 25's so that I could get as much defense at lvl 22 as I could. The lower level (25-30) recipe's are usually much cheaper then their higher level (30+) counterparts, however I've learned that for the 20-40 game, the lvl 25's work just fine. I leveled a Claw/Wp scrapper all the way to 50 on only lvl 25 std IO's, I think they are equivalent to =lvl SO's.
Using the lvl 25 Kin Combats my St attacks have 20% acc, 75% dam, 36% end redux, and 36% rech in 4 slots and giving me 20 more hp and 1.88 melee def (x3).
5 slotting them with SO's (2 dam, 1 acc, 1 rech, 1endredux) would give me 33 acc, 66 dam, 33 end redux, and 33 rech, would be useless in roughly 5 levels (I forget I haven't actaully used SOs in a build since I10), and would not add anything to my build. Now you might say that only 20% acc is too low, but I have another 18% global acc from the LoTG (will have 27%), effectively giving me 38%. I now have better damage (plus being fueled by AAO), acc, end redux, and rech adding to my def and HP, all in 4 slots that won't ever need to be changed. To me that's a can't lose.
Active 50s:
Zero Defex: DP/MM//Mace Blaster
Mutant X-7: Fire/MM//Mace Blaster
Running my Kin/EA gloriously
Come on I21!!!
Sure, the devs are supposed to listen to their customers, mister business 101 out there. And if I decide to start suggesting that the devs change the game from being about superheroes and supervillains to being about clowns that is my right as well, and technically Paragon Studios is supposed to pay attention to me. But I hope strongly that they assume a meth-head somehow managed to hack into my forum account and make paper airplanes out of my posts, because I hope they recognize stupid when they see it. I assume they will recognize futile just as accurately.
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I like seeing this kind of thriftiness. I did something similar with my spines/dark scrapper as I leveled him up. I spent perhaps 20 million, at most, on frankenslotting him. He is one of my more fun characters to play, always felt pretty tough.
Of course, once he hit 47, I promptly unloaded about 150 mil in new sets and such into him,but that's beside the point.
Shortspark: 50 Fire/Fire tanker
Jessie Inferno: 50 Fire/SD scrapper
a wizard: 50 Rad/Sonic defender
The Nemesis Plothole: 50 StJ/Reg scrapper
True, I didn't look at it from that aspect. And yes you're right Organica, they will show you how to min/max with uber amounts of inf that only the market pros have :P. Thanks for clearing that up Agent.
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Often somebody will come into the scrapper domain and ask how they can even afford 'cheap' build and they are referred here to the market forum to learn how to make influence. I wouldn't say this is because of any lack of knowledge on their parts, but because this is where all the knowledge of the ages is stored when it comes to profiting from the use of the market.
It always makes me roll my eyes to hear somebody say that using the market is not playing the game as intended. I know nobody has been so disparaging on this particular thread, but I feel like writing right now so if you're loosing interest in the post, I'll understand if you say TL;DR and move on.
The market is a wonderful tool in being able to complete enhancement sets. Could you imagine how much time you'd have to sink into this game hoping for that one drop to finally get the sixth enhancement in a set after waiting for what seems an eternity for the other five. Personally, I think I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a spoon.
I know there are advocates of the store, but those who make this demand, I think, fail to realize the business aspect of an MMO. In order to make a profit, people have to play the game. If everything is automatically available at low prices in a store, things could be acquired extremely quickly and then you'd be stuck in the waiting game for more content or a new power set proliferation or some other feature that would hold your interest. I think the 'drop rate' of new content is such that people would probably loose interest and move away from the game. Too few players in the game means that the game would dwindle until it would finally be scrapped.
The bottom line is that you can get enjoy the bulk of this game on SOs. It is enhanced with the various invention sets, but that enhancement takes some investment and time to acquire, thus making the game thrive and continue to exist because the subscription fees continue to roll in. If you want the best sets, you need to be prepared to invest the best amount of time.
Kinetic Combat triple-aspects are going for 50 mil redside, none for sale currently.
Are these markedly cheaper for Heroes? |
If you want the top of the line level 35 KC triple-aspect, it's currently going for 55m-60m blueside. But it's 15m-35m at level 34, 15m at level 33, and at or <5m at level 30 and below. The only catch is that it might to take a while (a week or two or even more) to fill a bid at a specific level with the low turnover, where putting spread bids across a few levels might make sense if you want to fill it more quickly.
Note the OP's KC's are level 25, which are current going for about 5m.
5m << 55-60m. That's thrift.
(edited to add) Just checked redside. Level 35 at 50m-60m, level 34 at 10m-15m, and highly volatile (600k-15m) at level 25 and other levels 33 and below. Overall, about the same as blueside, maybe even cheaper with more lowball bids filling, but higher on the impatient bids.
Shoot, I'm going to come across as splitting hairs, but I'm really not trying to be a jerk or anything in taking a slightly contrary position again. My main is a scrapper and I've found it extremely uninteresting to go very far with other classes, even on the villain side. Such being the case, I have to defend the scrapper boards a little. Yes, most of the posts there show how to get the uber build, which of course requires the uber shineys, but I've also seen a good number of posts on how to create less expensive, yet quite effective, builds.
Often somebody will come into the scrapper domain and ask how they can even afford 'cheap' build and they are referred here to the market forum to learn how to make influence. I wouldn't say this is because of any lack of knowledge on their parts, but because this is where all the knowledge of the ages is stored when it comes to profiting from the use of the market. It always makes me roll my eyes to hear somebody say that using the market is not playing the game as intended. I know nobody has been so disparaging on this particular thread, but I feel like writing right now so if you're loosing interest in the post, I'll understand if you say TL;DR and move on. The market is a wonderful tool in being able to complete enhancement sets. Could you imagine how much time you'd have to sink into this game hoping for that one drop to finally get the sixth enhancement in a set after waiting for what seems an eternity for the other five. Personally, I think I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a spoon. I know there are advocates of the store, but those who make this demand, I think, fail to realize the business aspect of an MMO. In order to make a profit, people have to play the game. If everything is automatically available at low prices in a store, things could be acquired extremely quickly and then you'd be stuck in the waiting game for more content or a new power set proliferation or some other feature that would hold your interest. I think the 'drop rate' of new content is such that people would probably loose interest and move away from the game. Too few players in the game means that the game would dwindle until it would finally be scrapped. The bottom line is that you can get enjoy the bulk of this game on SOs. It is enhanced with the various invention sets, but that enhancement takes some investment and time to acquire, thus making the game thrive and continue to exist because the subscription fees continue to roll in. If you want the best sets, you need to be prepared to invest the best amount of time. |
Nope.
He posted here to show off a relatively cheap build. If he'd posted in the scrapper forum, he would get advice on how he could improve his build slightly for only 2 billion or so more. ^_^ |
Most of the scrapper forum builders seem to be uber rich, and make no compromise for cost, no matter how trivial the compromise. I'm in that boat. I'll pay whatever it costs to get my PvP +3% defense IO, and my default assumption is that others will too. It's only play money. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.
That said, not all builds on the scrapper forum are hyper expensive. Many are quite affordable yet still ridiculously overpowered for most content. You just have to search a little harder or specifically ask for that.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Good post- I always like seeing people's 'economy' builds.
*thumbs up*
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I also used lvl 25's so that I could get as much defense at lvl 22 as I could. The lower level (25-30) recipe's are usually much cheaper then their higher level (30+) counterparts, however I've learned that for the 20-40 game, the lvl 25's work just fine.
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Given this, I'm pondering whether it makes sense to have two builds - one for the 50+ content and one for SSK'ing in the lower level content. As shown by the example from the OP here, it'd be quite easy and cheap to put together a very effective SSK build consisting of lower level IO sets, yet also still be effective at 50th level. Thoughts on this?
Given this, I'm pondering whether it makes sense to have two builds - one for the 50+ content and one for SSK'ing in the lower level content. As shown by the example from the OP here, it'd be quite easy and cheap to put together a very effective SSK build consisting of lower level IO sets, yet also still be effective at 50th level. Thoughts on this?
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Wow, didn't realize that this would generate this much conversation, and not too mention nothing negative really posted either .
I know that the uber build for soling AVs and general game-play at 50 and the 'exemp friendly' build for lower-level task forces is the way I have my toons set up. It isn't a bad way to go at all.
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I really am glad to see that this thread generated some good feedback and what not, plus I got a thumbs up from the Goat so all's well.
Active 50s:
Zero Defex: DP/MM//Mace Blaster
Mutant X-7: Fire/MM//Mace Blaster
Running my Kin/EA gloriously
Come on I21!!!
Sure, the devs are supposed to listen to their customers, mister business 101 out there. And if I decide to start suggesting that the devs change the game from being about superheroes and supervillains to being about clowns that is my right as well, and technically Paragon Studios is supposed to pay attention to me. But I hope strongly that they assume a meth-head somehow managed to hack into my forum account and make paper airplanes out of my posts, because I hope they recognize stupid when they see it. I assume they will recognize futile just as accurately.
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::Warning:: Rantish (not ur typical rant however)
This ended up being much longer then I anticipated this being when I started.
So, I'm more of a forum lurker not quite the avid poster, but I have a very good feel for the game and how to accomplish what I want for myself. I'm not a hard core anything in this game, I build solid toons that do what I want, when I want. I read the Market Forums fairly regularly and see alot more "whining" from the non-regulars then anything else. My net worth is approx. 500 mil infl.(blue side is where I reside mostly).
I don't "farm" regularly, I task force with SG mates, craft and sell drops, done some light flipping when I've wanted something costly and saved up merits. I've dabbled in just about everything to get what I need. I'm posting a build, not for advice, not for anything other then just to demonstrate that you can build a very solid functioning character (with IOs) relatively cheaply, with sound investing and patience. While I don't necessarily have everything in this build slotted (the characters is only lvl 24) I do have it all purchased. I have spent less then 100 million infl (less then the price of 1 purple drop). An amount of influence that is VERY easy to come by with just a few hours of playing a day (1-2 even, sometimes I don't log on for 2-3 days).
This is my Elm/SD scrapper's build, like I said bought this all for less then 100 Mill. He has 129 merits currently runs at +1/X2 at lvl 24. I have managed to make him a beast in his mid 20s and only see him getting stronger as time goes on. This is what he will look like at basically lvl 46, with some really nice set bonuses and soft cap def.
Maybe its because I don't think that everything in the world that is available is something I must have, I'm not sure. But there isn't any regular game content I won't be able to run with this character. So to anyone who is pissing and moaning about how "you need RMTers" or "purples are too rare" or "I'm Poor and everything is too much". It can be done, just play the game and wait it out.
This build has 3 sets of LoTG, 3 sets of Kinetic Combats (the kismet dropped on another character), the perf shift. +end proc, the std fst unique and the Gaus unique. Other then that it's all cheap sets (razzle dazzle, and multi strikes) Alot of the "needed sets" have bonuses that are available through other means. Just because you hear of something doesn't mean it's what you need. I am currently addicted to defense toons. Purples and the other really rare things in game really don't help with that. I built a very tough Shield/EM tank for around 100 million as well, when the KTF was released he tanked it superbly despite people thinking a "weak" shield tanker couldn't. People just need to pay attention to what they want to accomplish and find out how to do it. Pumping your build full of purple sets or rare IOs can be a real waste of infl. I have 7 50s and only 2 purple sets slotted (all purchased through WWs, the confuse set and the immobe set, both the cheaper ones when I bought them).
People really need to know there limitations in this world (in game, and in the real world to some extend [but I won't go there]). Nothing in this game is hard. Figure out what you want and devise a plan to get it. If you can't figure out how to get it, make a new plan!
Flame me, love me, hate me. I'm just tired of seeing the people who want everything but don't want to put in the effort to get it.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Level 25 Elec Shield: Level 46 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Electric Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery
Hero Profile:
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Level 1: Charged Brawl KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:25(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:25(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:25(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:25(15)
Level 1: Deflection LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:25(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:25(5), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:25(9), LkGmblr-Def:25(13)
Level 2: Havoc Punch KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:25(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:25(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:25(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:25(15)
Level 4: Battle Agility LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:25(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:25(5), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:25(9), LkGmblr-Def:25(13)
Level 6: Combat Jumping Zephyr-Travel:25(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:25(27)
Level 8: Boxing RzDz-Acc/Rchg:25(A), RzDz-EndRdx/Stun:25(11), RzDz-Immob%:25(11), RzDz-Acc/EndRdx:25(17), RzDz-Stun/Rng:25(17), RzDz-Acc/Stun/Rchg:25(27)
Level 10: Active Defense RechRdx-I:25(A), RechRdx-I:25(25)
Level 12: Swift Run-I:25(A)
Level 14: Health Heal-I:25(A)
Level 16: Tough S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:25(A)
Level 18: Chain Induction KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:25(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:25(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:25(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:25(21)
Level 20: Stamina P'Shift-End%:25(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:25(21), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg:25(29), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:25(40), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:25(43), P'Shift-EndMod:25(46)
Level 22: Weave LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:25(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:25(23), LkGmblr-Def:25(23)
Level 24: Against All Odds EndRdx-I:25(A), EndRdx-I:25(25)
Level 26: Phalanx Fighting Ksmt-ToHit+:25(A)
Level 28: Thunder Strike M'Strk-Acc/Dmg:25(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:25(29), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:25(31), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:25(31), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:25(31), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:25(34)
Level 30: Build Up GSFC-ToHit:25(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:25(37), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:25(39), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:25(39), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:25(40), GSFC-Build%:25(40)
Level 32: Lightning Rod M'Strk-Acc/Dmg:25(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:25(33), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:25(33), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:25(33), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:25(34), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:25(34)
Level 35: Shield Charge M'Strk-Acc/Dmg:25(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:25(36), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:25(36), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:25(36), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:25(37), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:25(37)
Level 38: Super Jump Zephyr-Travel:25(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:25(39)
Level 41: Ring of Fire TotHntr-Acc/Rchg:25(A), TotHntr-EndRdx/Immob:25(42), TotHntr-Acc/EndRdx:25(42), TotHntr-Immob/Acc:25(42), TotHntr-Acc/Immob/Rchg:25(43), TotHntr-Dam%:25(43)
Level 44: Fire Blast Thundr-Acc/Dmg:30(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:30(45), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:30(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(46), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(46)
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
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Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Active 50s:
Zero Defex: DP/MM//Mace Blaster
Mutant X-7: Fire/MM//Mace Blaster
Running my Kin/EA gloriously
Come on I21!!!