A level 50 IO enhances more... and when you exemp/mal down, that value is lowered... meaning the 40 would be even worse at a lower level, causing the impact to be even worse the lower you go (one of my 40+ Doms has lots of lvl 20 IOs... which are fine in normal play, but absolutely unusable in Bloody Bay due to the scaling!)
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
A level 50 IO enhances more... and when you exemp/mal down, that value is lowered... meaning the 40 would be even worse at a lower level, causing the impact to be even worse the lower you go (one of my 40+ Doms has lots of lvl 20 IOs... which are fine in normal play, but absolutely unusable in Bloody Bay due to the scaling!)
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True, lvl 50 IOs enchance more, but does that warrent losing the IO bonus when exemplared any lvl below the IO's lvl?
For me I slotted my lvl 50 WS w/ sets that get my recharge to 93.8% increase, my build pretty much dependants on my recharge being this high, so its a pretty big blow to my abilities whenever I do any TF thats not lvl 50
You need to take into account the minimum level you want to be able to exemp to for your build, not to mention that at lower levels the content is generally easier anyways, so the need for the set bonuses is less.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Choice.
If 50 gave the best enhancement value (which it does) AND you kept all your set bonuses when exemplared, 50 would be the best IO level hands-down and everything else would be second-best.
But if you have to CHOOSE between top-flight enhancement percentages and utility when exemplared, well, for some people who want to exemplar a lot, those lower-level IOs start to look a lot better. They canchoose a slight;y lower percentage in some areas to get more flexibility. That makes these IOs viable options.
More options for a variety of different interests = a better game.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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If you want to retain the use of bonuses, you should use lower-level IOs. That's how it works and the devs are unlikely to change this.|
Originally Posted by Vormico
Why should we be punished for using lvl 50 IOs?
For examine Luck of the Gambler lvl 50, the set goes as low as lvl 25, why when I get exemplared on say....Numina TF should I lose the bonus of my lvl 50 IOs just because they are lvl 50, if they were lvl 40 bonus I'd get the bonus (but lvl 40s are much harder to get). Why can't we receive bonus from our IO sets when we are exemplared down? I think it would make sense that if you are using a IO that is lvl 50 (or whatever lvl it is) that you should beable to keep the bonus as long are you are exemplared above that IO's min. lvl Example, if you have a "Luck of the Gambler: +Recharge" lvl 50, and you do a something that exemplars you down to lvl 25 you should beable to keep the +7.5% recharge. Does this make sense? Not really sure if this is the correct place to post this, if there is a better place to post this let me know. |
I generally use level 30-37 IO sets so that I could get all the bonuses when exemped to level 34 (that was an arbitrary level I just picked). The new exemping rules may be even kinder with this; I haven't looked into the details. I also don't want to put off getting IOs beyond the 30s, so I start getting them then and never replace them.
Especially for procs, there's no reason you should use level 50s (other than availability). People pay a premium for lower level procs and -KB IOs so that they can use them at lower levels.
Depending on your choices, the extra bonuses may or may not be worth the extra cost and wait. For example, if you slot 6 level 35 Thunderstrike IOs you get Acc 59%, Dam 98%, End Red 59%, Rech 59%. Six level 50 Thunderstrikes gets you 69%, 101%, 69% and 69%.
Since the Thunderstrike set gives a 7% acc bonus, slotting a few of those and other similar sets (Positron's Blast, Crushing Blow, etc.) the increased accuracy from using a level 50 set is going to be small compared to the other sources of acc bonuses. On my blasters I usually have 30-50% acc bonus from sets alone. The extra 10% from the 50 over the 35 IO is small potatoes. It's worth my while to have those bonuses when I'm running in the 30s, and to have those bonuses when I'm actually leveling up the character in the 30s.
I monitor last hit chance on all my characters and pretty much have it pegged at 95% even when one or two Nemesis LTs have fired off their Vengeance.
ED means that the difference in damage between the 35s and the 50s is almost negligible. For blasters in particular, your attack chain and ability to maintain a high Defiance damage buff will be much larger than the difference between the 35s and 50s. For Brutes the difference is similarly negligible because of Fury. There are also a lot of sets that give 2-3% damage buffs, often with just two IOs in a set.
The recharge and end reduction bonuses are of greater concern. To a certain extent your IO set choices will help you there as well. I tend to use sets that have +recharge (Crushing Impact, Positron's Blast, etc.). These bonuses are only 5% and 6.25%, so they're not as large as the 7% and 9% acc bonuses these sets give. I usually have a 20-30% recharge bonus due to IO sets. Finally, many IO sets give +Recovery and +Endurance bonuses; I go for those as well (Positron's Blast, Stupefy, etc.). Those are in the 2-3% range, but it's definitely useful -- a few of those means a couple of extra attacks.
You can achieve this with uncommons and rares, purples aren't needed.
Of course, if you are trying to optimize everything out to the max, you'll be spending billions on your character anyway. Might as well spring for a second set of IOs for a second build to be used when exemped.
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Mostly because the bonuses granted by these IO sets are greater than their lower-level cousins. for example, a lvl 35 IO set might grant a 2% increase to recharge, whereas a lvl 50 IO set might grant a 5% increase. Generally, it' s a mechanism to balance out lower-level sets with higher-level ones, at the cost of loosing those bonuses when playing below a certain level.
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Originally Posted by Vormico
True, lvl 50 IOs enchance more, but does that warrent losing the IO bonus when exemplared any lvl below the IO's lvl
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Thank you. This is exactly the point I was going to make, but scrolled down to see if anyone had already done so.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Choice.
If 50 gave the best enhancement value (which it does) AND you kept all your set bonuses when exemplared, 50 would be the best IO level hands-down and everything else would be second-best. But if you have to CHOOSE between top-flight enhancement percentages and utility when exemplared, well, for some people who want to exemplar a lot, those lower-level IOs start to look a lot better. They canchoose a slight;y lower percentage in some areas to get more flexibility. That makes these IOs viable options. More options for a variety of different interests = a better game. |
Short version: To give you tough decisions.
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The Mentor Project
I wish the lvl50 IOs would just scale down to the level you are exemplared to. That way you don't get the higher bonus, but you also don't lose all the bonus.
�Let there be truth, happiness, and waffles�
-Vagabond, Dark Lord & Avatar of Gnarr
The Justiciars
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This is probably what I'd've said. Hits the nail on the head IMO and if I weren't out of rep for today I'd give some. |
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Choice.
If 50 gave the best enhancement value (which it does) AND you kept all your set bonuses when exemplared, 50 would be the best IO level hands-down and everything else would be second-best. But if you have to CHOOSE between top-flight enhancement percentages and utility when exemplared, well, for some people who want to exemplar a lot, those lower-level IOs start to look a lot better. They canchoose a slight;y lower percentage in some areas to get more flexibility. That makes these IOs viable options. More options for a variety of different interests = a better game. |
Thing is, the game's already very easy (aside from specific encounters which are designed to be difficult or require teamwork/coordination, such as the sewer trial and Hami raid) even running on SOs - using IOs is like installing a turbocharger in your car's engine. To be honest, there's not much of a necessity other than "it would be nice" to keep set bonuses while exemplared unless you exemplar a lot and still have a build goal you want to keep while exemplared to that level (i.e. softcapped defenses, perma Phantom Army, permhasten, permadom). In that case, it's a matter of preference: what do you want more, the enhancement values (which usually are only a few percent different between level 35 and level 50 for the same piece) or the set bonuses? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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Or, of course, if you really want those lvl 50s for your top level play, but still want bonuses when you exemp....you can always slot lower level sets in a second build. More expensive, I know, but having your cake and eating it generally is 
However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator
IOs: Confusing
Personal usage: On 50s only
System in place: messes with me head
Too: Many: Numbers!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Procs work at all levels as long as the power is available. This is why a level 50 Unbounded Leap or Celerity Stealth will work when exemped to level 1 if it is slotted in Sprint, and why a Devastation: Chance for Hold will work at level 1 if slotted in a single target ranged attack that was taken at that level. And Kinetic Combat: Chance for Knockdown should also work when exemped to 1 if it is slotted in Brawl.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
Especially for procs, there's no reason you should use level 50s (other than availability). People pay a premium for lower level procs and -KB IOs so that they can use them at lower levels.
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It's the global bonus IOs (like the afore-mentioned KB protections for example), that stop working if exemped down beyond 3 levels lower than the enhancement's level.
With the procs, you are perfectly fine taking the higher level versions, unless you are going for the set bonuses that particular series of enhancement gives. But if it's just a one-shot (like if you are frankenslotting without regard to the bonuses), then go for the higher ones.
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This but with one additional point. It also leaves the door open for additional higher tier enhancements which dont lose the set bonuses.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Choice.
If 50 gave the best enhancement value (which it does) AND you kept all your set bonuses when exemplared, 50 would be the best IO level hands-down and everything else would be second-best. But if you have to CHOOSE between top-flight enhancement percentages and utility when exemplared, well, for some people who want to exemplar a lot, those lower-level IOs start to look a lot better. They canchoose a slight;y lower percentage in some areas to get more flexibility. That makes these IOs viable options. More options for a variety of different interests = a better game. |
So far Purples and the PVP IOs have this. Maybe in the future there will be an additional class of PVE IOs that does.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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This is the way to go if you want both. Just get the same sets at say 25.
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Originally Posted by Kiken
Or, of course, if you really want those lvl 50s for your top level play, but still want bonuses when you exemp....you can always slot lower level sets in a second build. More expensive, I know, but having your cake and eating it generally is
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Or use the dual builds feature. One capped out with level 50 Sets for running at 50, another build entirely designed around exemplaring.
Be well, people of CoH.
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-1,000,000 rep for using logic on the forums. Bad form, good sir! |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Or use the dual builds feature. One capped out with level 50 Sets for running at 50, another build entirely designed around exemplaring.
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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This is what I have on my main D3.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Or use the dual builds feature. One capped out with level 50 Sets for running at 50, another build entirely designed around exemplaring.
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The high level build is based on level 41 IOs so that I don't loose any IO bonuses when I go to Warburg. And level 41 IOs provide plenty of aspect enhancement that is still better than SOs.
If I'm exemplaring lower than 38, I use my low level build which ignores going for bonuses, but instead over-franken-slots all the pre-30 powers with 5 or 6 slotting. This way, when I exemplar down to a Posi TF, the attacks are enhanced as if I had access to SOs at that level. This low-level build also works very well at high levels because all the post-30 powers I chose are utility powers that don't need multiple slotting to be functional.
So, here is the low level secondary build that uses lots of IOs (for the frankenslotting, not for the bonuses):
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Twilight Grasp
- (A) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (3) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (3) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
- (5) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing: Level 50
- (48) Theft of Essence - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
- (A) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (5) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
- (7) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (7) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (9) Decimation - Chance of Build Up: Level 40
- (9) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage: Level 30
- (A) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage(Smashing): Level 30
- (11) Tempered Readiness - Accuracy/Damage/Slow: Level 50
- (11) Pacing of the Turtle - Range/Slow: Level 50
- (13) Pacing of the Turtle - Endurance/Recharge/Slow: Level 50
- (13) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (17) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Devastation - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (17) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (19) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (19) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (21) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (21) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage: Level 30
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (23) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (23) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (25) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (25) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Jumping IO: Level 50
- (A) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy): Level 50
- (27) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage(Smashing): Level 30
- (27) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (29) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (29) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (31) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%): Level 10
- (31) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 10
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery: Level 50
- (15) Miracle - +Recovery: Level 40
- (15) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration: Level 30
- (50) Healing IO: Level 50
- (50) Healing IO: Level 50
- (A) Quickfoot - Endurance/RunSpeed: Level 50
- (31) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance: Level 50
- (33) Winter's Gift - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance: Level 50
- (33) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
- (33) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy): Level 50
- (34) Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50
- (34) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage: Level 30
- (34) Accuracy IO: Level 50
- (36) HamiO:Centriole Exposure
- (36) HamiO:Centriole Exposure
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50
- (36) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50
- (37) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50
- (48) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50
- (A) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance: Level 40
- (37) Karma - Knockback Protection: Level 10
- (37) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
- (39) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (42) Kismet - Accuracy +6%: Level 30
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up: Level 50
- (39) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 50
- (39) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 50
- (40) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (40) Rectified Reticle - Increased Perception: Level 20
- (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
- (46) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
- (46) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
- (48) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
- (50) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
- (A) Glimpse of the Abyss - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (40) Glimpse of the Abyss - Fear/Range: Level 50
- (42) Glimpse of the Abyss - Accuracy/Fear/Recharge: Level 50
- (42) Glimpse of the Abyss - Chance of Damage(Psionic): Level 50
- (43) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage: Level 30
- (43) Nightmare - Fear/Range: Level 50
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 30
- (43) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50
- (45) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50
- (45) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance: Level 40
- (A) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
- (45) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
- (46) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
- (A) HamiO:Endoplasm Exposure
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 25
- (A) Calibrated Accuracy - Accuracy/Range: Level 50
- (A) Kinetic Crash - Accuracy/Knockback: Level 50
- (A) HamiO:Endoplasm Exposure
- (A) Range IO: Level 50
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
Why should we be punished for using lvl 50 IOs?
For examine Luck of the Gambler lvl 50, the set goes as low as lvl 25, why when I get exemplared on say....Numina TF should I lose the bonus of my lvl 50 IOs just because they are lvl 50, if they were lvl 40 bonus I'd get the bonus (but lvl 40s are much harder to get).
Why can't we receive bonus from our IO sets when we are exemplared down?
I think it would make sense that if you are using a IO that is lvl 50 (or whatever lvl it is) that you should beable to keep the bonus as long are you are exemplared above that IO's min. lvl
Example, if you have a "Luck of the Gambler: +Recharge" lvl 50, and you do a something that exemplars you down to lvl 25 you should beable to keep the +7.5% recharge.
Does this make sense?
Not really sure if this is the correct place to post this, if there is a better place to post this let me know.