That sort of thing also happens in some of the missions in the 20-30 range, fighting the miners/dockworkers. Especially on a team, there's going to be a lot of burn patches everywhere.
My Necro/Dark really hates anything with 'Flame' in its name.
Always the 1st thing I target with Petrifying Gaze. Nothing spells death on an otherwise flawless run like fire. 1st time I noticed all my guys take to the hills, leaving me looking stupid, I realized I had to do something about those fire types.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
As Dirty Harry told us "A man's got to know his limitations."
Masterminds just have fewer. 
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Burn Patch is nasty and KOA's Caltrops can be nasty.
Robots actually seem to respond to those reasonably well. I say this in comparison to recently leveled Zombies and Ninjas, who could be halfway across the map before I noticed. Robots seem to get out of the patch (usually in different directions from each other) and get back to fighting.
Not only is the Flamethrowers Burn autohit, but so is the -Res from the Nullifiers. Get the 2 together and you've got something to do. I have a targeting bind for the flamers and I want them to die first.
Malta keep me on my toes too, for sure.
I definitely want to add KOA for the "troublesome" group. I did an all KOA mission with my Ninja/Dark recently. Going in, I had my usual late game (lvl 48 or so) MM swagger of invincibility, but was humbled when their Caltrops made my Zombies uncontrollable and they'd run and aggro an entire floor (not an exaggeration). I ended up just dropping the mission rather than lowering diff.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
I doubt anyone could roll a mob of an 8-man spawn of Longbow on his own, let alone having them set to higher than +3. Yeesh, +5 Longbow...
I KNEW I couldn't have been the only one whacked enough to go FULL 8 against Longbow! Yeah, I tried that on my SS/WP brute on a council mission paper mission ... Stomping, LOTS of STOMPING! They never knew what the hell hit em. lol Then tried a Longbow ... You can guess.
Then tried FULL 8 on my Thug/Storm .. I got slaughtered. Even with Gangwar providing cover, I never seen my boys get chewed up so fast.
Shigeru Miyamoto "A delayed game will eventually be good, a bad game is bad forever."
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I ran my elec/fire brute against Longbow at +1/x8, I had to be very active and pay close attention but it was doable. I had t pay very close attention and hit my heal every time it was up but they died very quickly once I herded them up and used burn on them.
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Originally Posted by Main_Battle_Tank
I KNEW I couldn't have been the only one whacked enough to go FULL 8 against Longbow!
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Well, after reading your post I thought I'd at least give a 45th level bots/traps MM a try at the Cimerora Wall just to test their limits. The (still original non-respec'd) economy build is fairly solid with pretty much standard full or partial IO sets in all powers along with the +def/+res procs for the bots.
After seeing the Cimeroran infantry on the lower wall started at 52nd level, I rose to the upper wall where there were some 50's and 51's to try out first. I realize the numbers start getting really stretched when going against +5 enemies, much less +6 or +7.
Not comfortable with having no retreat route in two directions, I began with the west edge of the upper wall where a line of 51's stood. Instead of the more usual tactic where I'd seeker drone the mob, and then jump into the midst of the enemy stealthed to lay the rest of the traps, I set up a heavily trapped firebase and used the drones and the mortar to pull them in. The pull went well with only 4 of the infantry rushing into the firebase position away from their Surgeon. At first it seemed to go well, but the infantry turned out to be very resilient and even when they got hit, it didn't put much of a dent in their health bar. What eventually happened, though, is that they got split up, with two of them getting knocked back over the wall, leaving only two left up top to get whittled down in short order. The ones over the wall? They just stayed down there, with one of them taking a swim!
The second half of this first mob went similarly, with two more over the edge and the remainder of the squad being taken out, leaving the Surgeon completely on his own to be picked off. Following this, I carefully went down exiting the west edge of the top wall (where the bots could easily follow without attracting attention from those 52's and 53's on the lower wall!) and we were able to whittle the beached/swimming stragglers away one at a time.
Then we went back up and took on the second line, which consisted of 50's. Much easier, as it turned out, and I began using the web grenade to keep them on the wall so we wouldn't have to go down to finish off those infantry going AWOL for a beach holiday.
Lips smacking, stomach churning, we headed for the lower west wall to try 52's. And what a huge difference a single level makes, perhaps even more so than between 50 and 51. I'm not sure what the numbers are, but it had to be approaching min/max levels if not already there. The first pull brought 5 of the 52's in and we were immediately in trouble, with them hitting and us not hitting them so much, with them seeming to be unfazed by the drone strikes and poison trap and us glowing in burn patches with spears hitting their mark. And although I was doubly stealthed (power, plus a proc in sprint), somehow I got seen and suddenly had two spears sticking out my back too! The beacon wasn't coming even close to repairing the damage we were all taking.
Retreat! Jumping backwards (facing fowards) I drop another round of drones, caltrops and a mortar and ordered the bots to follow, giving a us few moments respite while the Cimeroran infantry made chase. I popped a few inspirations into the larger bots to get them back in shape and toughen them up for another round. And what a long round it was! The resilient bots held their own just as I was able to get yet another beacon up along with a several rounds of traps as they lit up in readiness.
And still... 4 out of 5 of them fully up and the bots getting whittled down again. Then, two lucky shots and over the edge the two of the infantry go (I didn't even dare trying to web them). The battle against the remaining two up top with our backs at the edge of the far end of the wall went on and on. Eventually, the mortars had worn down the two infantry up top and the tide eventually turned our way to take them out.
With our backs to the west edge of the wall, I warily eye the remainder of the Cimeroran squad with the Surgeon giving them a glow. The pull this time didn't work so well and all the rest of the squad came at us. And somehow, although I was stealthed, I got seen very early on with two Cimororan infantry having my number, even as they were getting shot at by the bots. Boom, two hits, and my health bar goes red, I pop a green and a purple for good measure, another hit and it goes red again, pop another green and... like a yoyo, at one point dropping to less than 10%, maybe less than 5%. Meanwhile, one protector bot bites the dust, the assault bot starts to fall apart and the bot cascade begins. The first bot wouldn't even touch the ground yet if I tried to resummon them, as I'd be toast standing there.
Retreat! again, but this time I'm the only one to make it out, with the bots quickly whittled down to none and my speeding over the edge of the cliff, going into flight and fleeing the battlefield.
No, I didn't weep, but it's going to be a little while before the firebase bot squad takes on those 52's again.
The limit? 52 >> 51 > 50.
LIMITS??? What's that?? My bots/dark just ran both of Abyss' arcs at +0/x8 (longbow and kheld PPD) and it was a cake walk. I like /traps, but it's terrible as a 'reaction' set.
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
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There's your problem.|
Originally Posted by Brynstar
LIMITS??? What's that?? My bots/dark just ran both of Abyss' arcs at +0/x8 (longbow and kheld PPD) and it was a cake walk. I like /traps, but it's terrible as a 'reaction' set.
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Oh and my Bats/Tarps does +3x8 quite well.
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Just +3? (*snort*)
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
There's your problem.
Oh and my Bats/Tarps does +3x8 quite well. |
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Wow. This makes me feel better. My first attempt at the whole 'tankermind' playstyle was in a longbow mission and I got freakin' creamed by.. eh, couldn't've been more than 8 of em. Maybe I'll give it another shot.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
It was the *** **** ****** ******* Longbow Flamethrowers and their auto-hit burn patches!
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I've actually got a question about this. To be able to be a soloing force on a MM do you really have to focus on personal/pet defenses? I'm sure that's important no matter what but I'm not sure to what extent. I've got a Thugs/TA MM at 27 atm, and while I do have a planned build for him it's mostly focused on procs and recharge (I'm a recharge junkie and like to have as much recharge on just about any toon I make, plus TA has quite a few longish to long recharging powers).
I'm mostly a team player but being able to solo effectively and efficiently I think would add an extra layer of fun and challenge to my MM, so I was thinking of using my 2nd build for this purpose if I needed an entirely different build for this.
Also, on the defense/resistance unique pet IOs, are these bonuses specific to the pet you slot them to or are they universal for all your pets?
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You don't need to focus on anything so long as you tank for your pets. Just leave them in BG mode and take the alpha. Nothing will survive long enough once you've put the -resist arrows down. Thugs are especially resilient with all the leadership buffs from enforcers, and if you take those powers too, the stacking is great. If you have all four unique pet IO's, you'll be practically invincible.|
Originally Posted by Kurugi
I've actually got a question about this. To be able to be a soloing force on a MM do you really have to focus on personal/pet defenses? I'm sure that's important no matter what but I'm not sure to what extent. I've got a Thugs/TA MM at 27 atm, and while I do have a planned build for him it's mostly focused on procs and recharge (I'm a recharge junkie and like to have as much recharge on just about any toon I make, plus TA has quite a few longish to long recharging powers).
I'm mostly a team player but being able to solo effectively and efficiently I think would add an extra layer of fun and challenge to my MM, so I was thinking of using my 2nd build for this purpose if I needed an entirely different build for this. |
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| Also, on the defense/resistance unique pet IOs, are these bonuses specific to the pet you slot them to or are they universal for all your pets? |
You'd be better off spreading those IO's around though, so that gang war can still be powerful. Two of them have to go in gang war, the others are best put in thugs and bruiser. You need all six slots of enforcers for acc, damage, defense buff, and maybe one +tohit buff.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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I do plan to take the leadership toggles (assault and tactics at least). I only count 2 unique pet IOs, unless there's 2 more in the other pet set, which for some reason mids' won't let me select. Oh, and does tanking for my pets mean I need to take provoke, or just open the fight myself with them in BG mode? Kinda hard for me to take any new pool powers as I already have 4 (Leaping, Fitness, Speed, and Leadership).|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
You don't need to focus on anything so long as you tank for your pets. Just leave them in BG mode and take the alpha. Nothing will survive long enough once you've put the -resist arrows down. Thugs are especially resilient with all the leadership buffs from enforcers, and if you take those powers too, the stacking is great. If you have all four unique pet IO's, you'll be practically invincible.
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Universal. If you put all four in gang war, even if you never used it, your pets would have +20% resist all and +10% defense to all, as long as they were in range of the aura. I think it's the same range as BG mode (somebody verify this). You'd be better off spreading those IO's around though, so that gang war can still be powerful. Two of them have to go in gang war, the others are best put in thugs and bruiser. You need all six slots of enforcers for acc, damage, defense buff, and maybe one +tohit buff. |
I currently have my pets planned to have 4 acc/dam/end IOs and two procs. That's how a friend suggested I slot them, but the only thing is doing it this way the damage isn't ED capped (it's at 79.9%, assuming I use max level enhancements). Could just swap one out for a pure damage one which would put me at the cap. Still doesn't leave any room in Enforcers for a defense debuff enhancement, unless I replace one of the procs (Achilles' Heel -res and LG neg damage) with one, of course that might not be necessary since with TA I can debuff defense myself (-24.7% with Acid Arrow and -25% with OSA).
One last thing, my Thugs/Bruiser only take KB enhancements aside from the pet sets, so my options for procs in them is limited. Right now I was planning on a chance for smashing damage proc and the +rech proc, but how effective is the +rech for pets? I probably will opt to slot the other 2 uniques instead of one of the procs, just wanna know which is more effective.
P.S. Sorry for sorta hijacking your thread
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There are four unique IOs, two are from "recharge intensive pet" sets, which is why I say they have to go in gang war. Gang war is the only power you have which will accept "recharge intensive pet" sets.|
Originally Posted by Kurugi
I do plan to take the leadership toggles (assault and tactics at least). I only count 2 unique pet IOs, unless there's 2 more in the other pet set, which for some reason mids' won't let me select.
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| Oh, and does tanking for my pets mean I need to take provoke, or just open the fight myself with them in BG mode? Kinda hard for me to take any new pool powers as I already have 4 (Leaping, Fitness, Speed, and Leadership). |
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| I currently have my pets planned to have 4 acc/dam/end IOs and two procs. That's how a friend suggested I slot them, but the only thing is doing it this way the damage isn't ED capped (it's at 79.9%, assuming I use max level enhancements). Could just swap one out for a pure damage one which would put me at the cap. Still doesn't leave any room in Enforcers for a defense debuff enhancement, unless I replace one of the procs (Achilles' Heel -res and LG neg damage) with one, of course that might not be necessary since with TA I can debuff defense myself (-24.7% with Acid Arrow and -25% with OSA). |
Personally, I would replace at least two of the acc/dmg/end with just acc/dmg. Your pets don't need that much end reduction. My protector bots have two common defense buff IOs and one healing IO. The rest is blood mandate sets, and I don't miss the damage output from them. I feel it's worth it to be unhittable.
It would be nice to keep the achilles heel resistance debuff though.
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| One last thing, my Thugs/Bruiser only take KB enhancements aside from the pet sets, so my options for procs in them is limited. Right now I was planning on a chance for smashing damage proc and the +rech proc, but how effective is the +rech for pets? I probably will opt to slot the other 2 uniques instead of one of the procs, just wanna know which is more effective. |
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P.S. Sorry for sorta hijacking your thread
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Yeah I see now. It seems my observational skills are a bit lacking today |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
There are four unique IOs, two are from "recharge intensive pet" sets, which is why I say they have to go in gang war. Gang war is the only power you have which will accept "recharge intensive pet" sets.
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| You don't need provoke. I'm going to say you don't need fitness either, though. So as usual, your mileage may vary. My bots/traps runs with teleport, presence, leadership, and hasten. I don't use provoke unless things get really ugly (say, aggroing an extra spawn of malta). |
Not to mention I don't even think I'd have the personal durable to really utilize provoke. I've got 30% S/L defense, 25% Energy defense, 11% Negative defense, 17% toxic resistance (woohoo), and everything else is too low to really rely on, though with BG mode maybe it's not such a big deal...
Or maybe the medicine pool would be a smarter choice since TA has no way to heal your pets and my Arsonist tends to have...suicidal tendencies, although most of the time when he does die it's pretty abrupt and I don't think I'd really have the time to get off a near 4 second heal.
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First, I'm not saying to slot defense debuff, I'm saying slot defense buff. Combining that with the unique IOs will almost soft cap your pets to everything. Invaluable protection, which is why I suggest taking maneuvers to push it to the soft cap. That last 5% will be incredible. Read the guide in my sig for an explanation of why. Personally, I would replace at least two of the acc/dmg/end with just acc/dmg. Your pets don't need that much end reduction. My protector bots have two common defense buff IOs and one healing IO. The rest is blood mandate sets, and I don't miss the damage output from them. I feel it's worth it to be unhittable. It would be nice to keep the achilles heel resistance debuff though. |
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| +Rech does nothing for pets. They are completely unaffected by any recharge modification, plus or minus. I'd go with the uniques, ED cap his damage, throw in one acc common and call it a day. Thugs in particular don't need much acc because of enforcers, especially if you take tactics too. |
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| Totally OK. I'm glad I could help. If, in fact, I did. |
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My bots/traps runs all three leadership toggles without stamina, but I made up for that with a miracle unique in perma triage beacon and other set bonuses.|
Originally Posted by Kurugi
I've heard you don't need fitness, but I tend to pick it up on every toon out of habit. I don't really use a lot of endurance. I don't have any buffs and the majority of TA's attacks are only used like once a fight, and the ones used more often aren't that endurance heavy. On the other hand I'm taking at least 3 toggles with my build so my end drain is going to be anyway from about 0.7/s to 1/s. If I drop Fitness completely my recovery won't even be 2/s.
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| Not to mention I don't even think I'd have the personal durable to really utilize provoke. I've got 30% S/L defense, 25% Energy defense, 11% Negative defense, 17% toxic resistance (woohoo), and everything else is too low to really rely on, though with BG mode maybe it's not such a big deal... |
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I feel I know a lot more about MMs now. Thanks
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Wow, I didn't know BG was that much |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
My bots/traps runs all three leadership toggles without stamina, but I made up for that with a miracle unique in perma triage beacon and other set bonuses.
This is the last thing I can really say: BG mode is effective 75% resist; your other resists are icing on top. Couple that with flash arrow's -tohit and you are very durable. You just made my day. Thanks! |
I think I've got a pretty good build now. Although I don't have a place to slot the recovery uniques, I do snag quite a lot of recovery bonuses so hopefully that'll be enough.
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It's 75% resist with all 6 pets in range. The math on that is this: You take two shares of damage, each pet takes 1. With six pets, damage gets split up into 8 shares, and you get 2 of them, or 1/4 of all damage. Therefor, 75% resist.|
Originally Posted by Kurugi
Wow, I didn't know BG was that much
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| I think I've got a pretty good build now. Although I don't have a place to slot the recovery uniques, I do snag quite a lot of recovery bonuses so hopefully that'll be enough. |
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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I have it now. However, after what you had to say I took it out of my eventual build on mids'. By removing it I can gain a couple other handy powers and also take a couple other powers earlier.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
You said you have stamina. That should be plenty.
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I'm just not entirely sure if 2.17 end/s is going to offset my 1.06/s enddrain as well as the end cost of my powers, even though the more end intensive ones aren't used that often.
So, looks like I've discovered my limits as well.
Running the Pied Piper arc from Hardcase on my 39 Necro/Dark
SRSLY set at -1 +6 Bosses and AV's.
I'm sure some of you know the mission I'm talking about.
Its the one were Hardcase warns you before hand that the warehouse has
A LOT of Wailers. Bring help he says...
Well, I've got a cadre of cannibals at my becking command so off we go!
I zone in and see the Ambush text, since I rarely summon before entering I'm about half way thru summoning my Knights when I fall.
That was weird.
Next try, I summon and buff before entering. Once in I easily handle the ambush and proceed to clear the place.
Then the next ambush gets to me right as I jump into a huge group.
I was down before I even blinked...
Next try, I summon and buff before entering. This time I wait for the 2nd ambush. They arrive at my tarpit and we make quick work of them. I am a demon hunter afterall.
This time I decide to pull the next group into my corner of doom.
I'm able to take out the large group and Dark Servant helps to defeat the ambush as well.
Then the 3rd ambush gets stuck or something. I see the "We're coming for you" text. Wait for about 3 minutes and decide to just wipe out this little group of 5 right in front of me.
Oops.
Seems the ambush was actually waiting behind the corner to *surprise* ambush me! Soon as I engaged the small little 'bait' group I'm surrounded by 3 Wailer Kings, numerous Queens and around 20 blue wailers.
I was tempted to yank out my shivan but was down before I even had the chance.
I'm starting to Love/Hate this mission. It's become something of a sinister urge in me to complete it without lowering the diff.
Tonight I plan on waiting at the entrance for all 4 ambushes then stealthing to the freaks.
Yeah, this MM hadn't died that much in the past 39 levels of play!
I love these new SRSLY settings!
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
The new difficulty settings went live and I went nuts. I felt that my Bots/Traps was able to handle just about anything; the MM himself is softcapped to ranged/AoE, and the bots to everything. I occasionally farmed the wall in Cimerora and in RWZ, but always had the feeling I could kill more things faster. So I blindly ramped the settings straight to +0/x8 to see how quickly I could farm purples.
I started with council. Absolute walk in the park. Summon, buff, toggle up and waltz through the mission doing silly emotes the whole way. I didn't have to do anything else.
I thought, "Let's try Rikti." A quick jaunt over to RWZ and I was knee deep in alien scum, cutting a swath through them like it was nothing. I spent more time asleep than awake, but it made me realize having mez-proof bots is definitely a plus.
Ran back to Grandville to do a Circle of Thorns mission, which was nothing spectacular, and then decided to try Carnies.
Now, the carnies may not have been the best idea, but I went for it anyway. Turns out they weren't all that difficult, especially now since I was tired of doing emotes and actually dropped my traps along the way.
Malta. Most people cringe when they hear that. Malta. I tell you, these people get downright annoying. I had to use actual strategy to get through this. Bots on stay, summon seekers, drop triage beacon, seekers take alpha, run in and spam provoke, drop caltrops/poison trap/acid mortar as available. Once or twice in there I hit my panic button (hasten), but otherwise, no trouble.
Last night, though, I failed at an attempt to solo a mayhem mission. It wasn't the cascading defensive failure from peacebringing police that got me. It wasn't the Longbow Wardens that caused problems. It wasn't even the Knives of Artemis that I accidentally aggro'd at the same time as a group of police. None of those things could stop me.
It was the *** **** ****** ******* Longbow Flamethrowers and their auto-hit burn patches!
I started at a decent pace, but the first LB ambush dropped a ton of burn patches, killing all three drones and almost everything else. The scattered bots that survived ran way out of BG range, leaving me to die so quickly I couldn't even realize what happened.
"What's this button about a hospital? Is this what happens when you die?"
Anyway, break out of jail and try again. I heard the ambush coming this time and ran to intercept. I dropped caltrops (mine do knockdown, so it's great mitigation) into the middle of the pack and kept attention on me. That was easy. I liked doing that.
Then the Knives+Police incident happened. It was ugly for a while, had to resummon some bots, but I pulled through. I was low on time, and had just gotten the key for a raid, which is a 6:00 minute time bonus. That would have been nice, if I'd have paid attention to the longbow ambush that came in behind me and ate my bots all over again.
I spent 3 minutes in my cell, weeping.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.