Please Lift Name Restrictions
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2009-09-17 08:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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You can thank me for that if it was on Virtue. I rerolled him into U S Archer because I wanted a patriotic hero.
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Originally Posted by Arilou
I was able to roll my Arch/TA corruptor yesterday.
And... "Robber Hood" Was not taken! Yessss.... |
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Neigh, I say! I want to keep my unqiue names! Like Recluse's Phantom, Globestomper, Aristocras to name a few.
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Speaking of Triumph, where have you been at? I seem to keep missing you when I log in for TFs/SFs.
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Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
Me and a friend who also plays on triumph....
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More than one person but not at the same time in the same world except in that one Superman example which was a gimmick.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Velocity
You haven't read this whole thread? This was discussed earlier today. Comics have a tradition of more than one person wearing the mantle.
To address your example, there aren't *quite* 35 Superman titles per month, but not too many years ago they each featured a different person with the Superman name. It happened right after "The Death of Superman." It sold like crazy. Amazingly, not one customer reported being confused. True story. |
Seems to me DC has run a series where they killed off their alternate worlds to get rid of duplicates as well. Did you miss that or do you only look at things you think minutely support your assertions?
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Man, I so hope Mr. Sister is available when I get home. Think I could fabricate a nun outfit on a male model with our character creator?
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Originally Posted by Eisregen_NA
... but don't come running to me if you're stuck with the Flatulent Reaper, Leprosy Lad or Mr. Sister.
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Uh...yeah. I remember the Death of Superman run, I had a large percentage of those issues. |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Velocity
You haven't read this whole thread? This was discussed earlier today. Comics have a tradition of more than one person wearing the mantle.
To address your example, there aren't *quite* 35 Superman titles per month, but not too many years ago they each featured a different person with the Superman name. It happened right after "The Death of Superman." It sold like crazy. Amazingly, not one customer reported being confused. True story. |
They were all people claiming to be the "real" Superman, hence the names. And they all had their runs in the 4 Superman titles that already existed. And all were connected in the same storyline.
In the "more than one person wearing the mantle" thing, it almost NEVER happens simultaneously. And there's usually a convoluted and confusing storyline that makes very little sense when it DOES happen.
Bucky took over for Captain America after his death, he was NOT Captain America at the same time. Most of the time when someone takes over a heroic (or villainous) identity, it is because the original is no longer active, be it by retirement, death, dimensional displacement, whatever.
Going back to the Superman thing. All the "Superman" characters that were claiming to be the real one had similar abilities and powers.
Putting it in CoH terms, Superman is an Invulnerability/Super Strength tank with the Energy, Speed, Fitness, Leaping, and Flight pools. (yes, I realize he is MUCH more powerful than that, but that's the closest approximation to him in CoH)
Okay, now you have: A fire/fire blaster, an ice/ice blaster, a BS/WP scrapper, an Earth/Fire dominator, a nin/nin stalker....ALL named Superman. The previous example was 4 characters with the same basic identity, all of which were part of the same story. This is 5 characters that have NOTHING to do with each other....yet all have the same name.
Any time you see the same name on more than one comic title, it is either A) the exact same character in a different book (Spider-Man's many monthly titles springs to mind) or B) characters with a strong connection to each other through an interweaving storyline (the Superman example)
You never see two characters with the exact same name that are nothing alike and have nothing to do with each other.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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*sigh* Yes, those Supermen were at the same time in the same world. Research first, please.|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
More than one person but not at the same time in the same world except in that one Superman example which was a gimmick.
Seems to me DC has run a series where they killed off their alternate worlds to get rid of duplicates as well. Did you miss that or do you only look at things you think minutely support your assertions? |
Same with the Flashes, the Green Lanterns (even restricting things to Earth and not the Corps). There are two Wildcats as well.
In. The. Current. DC. Universe.
*scoffs and rolls eyes Comic Book Guy style because you can't discuss comics without emoting Comic Book Guy*
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The display of the global name in chat windows can be suppressed.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
As far as lifting name restrictions goes, no, thank you very much. I saw what that necessitated in Champions Online and I am quite honestly not interested in having all my chat come out as:
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Green Lantern is a TITLE you are given when you receive a ring. Not an individual name. There are many Green Lanterns, and it is accepted because it is KNOWN that it is a title and not a name. |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Velocity
*sigh* Yes, those Supermen were at the same time in the same world. Research first, please.
Same with the Flashes, the Green Lanterns (even restricting things to Earth and not the Corps). There are two Wildcats as well. In. The. Current. DC. Universe. *scoffs and rolls eyes Comic Book Guy style because you can't discuss comics without emoting Comic Book Guy* |
I believe most of the Flashes are related to each other somehow. If my lore is correct Barry Allen is Wally West's uncle and Wally got his powers in the very same lab his uncle did. While Barry was active Wally was known as Kid Flash and had a yellow and red costume, he was active with the Teen Titans in the early 80's. he didn't become The Flash until Barry retired.
The Wildcats are both connected to the original Golden Age Wildcat. One is his god-daughter, the other is his prodigal son.
All of these examples are connected by story. Not a single one of them has the same name as any other while having no relation to them.
Another example: Ghost Rider.
When Danny Ketch became Ghost Rider, Johnny Blaze was just Johnny Blaze. Johnny Blaze became Ghost Rider again after Danny Ketch disappeared.
They were not known as Ghost Rider simultaneously until recently, when it was revealed that there are multiple Ghost Riders, all assigned to a different part of the world. Johnny Blaze is still THE Ghost Rider, while Danny Ketch is just A Ghost Rider.
Also...they're brothers, so the family connection is there too.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I really don't think you want to say "they all look alike" around John Irons!|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Uh...yeah. I remember the Death of Superman run, I had a large percentage of those issues.
They were all people claiming to be the "real" Superman, hence the names. And they all had their runs in the 4 Superman titles that already existed. And all were connected in the same storyline. In the "more than one person wearing the mantle" thing, it almost NEVER happens simultaneously. And there's usually a convoluted and confusing storyline that makes very little sense when it DOES happen. Bucky took over for Captain America after his death, he was NOT Captain America at the same time. Most of the time when someone takes over a heroic (or villainous) identity, it is because the original is no longer active, be it by retirement, death, dimensional displacement, whatever. Going back to the Superman thing. All the "Superman" characters that were claiming to be the real one had similar abilities and powers. Putting it in CoH terms, Superman is an Invulnerability/Super Strength tank with the Energy, Speed, Fitness, Leaping, and Flight pools. (yes, I realize he is MUCH more powerful than that, but that's the closest approximation to him in CoH) Okay, now you have: A fire/fire blaster, an ice/ice blaster, a BS/WP scrapper, an Earth/Fire dominator, a nin/nin stalker....ALL named Superman. The previous example was 4 characters with the same basic identity, all of which were part of the same story. This is 5 characters that have NOTHING to do with each other....yet all have the same name. Any time you see the same name on more than one comic title, it is either A) the exact same character in a different book (Spider-Man's many monthly titles springs to mind) or B) characters with a strong connection to each other through an interweaving storyline (the Superman example) You never see two characters with the exact same name that are nothing alike and have nothing to do with each other. |
But I digress...
I don't understand your point. So you'd be okay with non-unique naming if every "Meltdown" has the same powersets and color scheme? Seems like a bunch of unique Meltdowns would be less prone to this "mass confusion" everyone is worried about.
Comics culture and tradition, if you want to play that card, tends to support non-unique naming. It's that simple. You can make distinctions that you didn't make earlier til the cows come home, but at the end of the day the body of evidence in comics lore reflects LOTS of duplicative naming. All the recitations of "alternate universes don't count" and "neither do different time periods" that you want to throw in does not change that fact.
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But you can ignore people who lie like you are.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Velocity
*sigh* Yes, those Supermen were at the same time in the same world. Research first, please.
Same with the Flashes, the Green Lanterns (even restricting things to Earth and not the Corps). There are two Wildcats as well. In. The. Current. DC. Universe. *scoffs and rolls eyes Comic Book Guy style because you can't discuss comics without emoting Comic Book Guy* |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Actually, no, they didn't. The whole reason it ("serverless" that is) was brought up was to illustrate an example where the (then-new) server transfers would be rendered moot, creating a potential request for a refund of that transfer fee (which would not be forthcoming.) |
Originally Posted by anachrodragon
I just see non-unique names as a pre-requisite if they were inclined to merge any servers, or move to a server-less system. Remember when server transfer launched? The devs themselves broached the topic of a possible server-less system sometime in the far off future.
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It wasn't a "We're considering," "We might look at," or anything even close. It was a "There are no refunds for server transfers, no matter what happens in the future, period" illustration. They could have used "If population dropped to 2000 people and we shut down all but one server" just as easily. Or even "If you change your mind and want to go back."
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
But you can ignore people who lie like you are.
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I'm sorry you feel the need to libel me, especially when the topic is a bit of verifiable comic book trivia. Please do not resort to such tactics in the future.
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Does it fit the character? Who are you to say it's a "valid" or "acceptable" - or even "pleasing" name, on a character not of your own?|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Velocity
Unless you honestly believe that "Boxcar Artichoke" is just as good a superhero/villain name as "Meltdown" (to use the example above), this argument is both spurious and specious.
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Some people don't like numbers in names. Well, I have a character who's a Seeker - on his native world, a combination cop, bounty hunter and military "elite." Being a cop, he made enemies, one of which framed him. To protect his family from disgrace, he dropped his name and is known only by his designation - Seeker209.
I have characters that don't *need* "heroic" names (or villainous ones.) They just go by their own names. And it's perfectly fine for them - because that's how the character is. Or, like my forum handle, a partial name with something to go along with it that hints at his background.
I have characters that go by designations of the items or armor they use - I've got a series of Crey armor prototypes with a designator and name (CTI Dreamer, for instance - Crey Tank - Illusion.) Much like military hardware, especially aircraft (see "F6F Hellcat, F-14 Tomcat, F-22 Raptor.")
Want a reasoning for "Boxcar artichoke?" OK. Arthur - or Arti to his friends - was down on his luck. Losing his job, his home, everything he owned, he started riding the rails, hopping on cars when they could to get from place to place. One of the places they passed through, though, was a research facility - one that had had been leaking radioactive compounds and chemicals into the ground for years. The chemicals changed him, though he didn't know it at the time. The way it reacted in him caused him to influence the growth of plants.
He found out when, unable to find food, he hopped back onto the next available boxcar. His needs and his hunger influenced the agricultural goods he was among, and he found himself blessed... with an abundance of artichokes. He sees them as a symbol of hope, now. Though nobody else seems to understand what he means, his oft-repeated comment of something being as "welcome (or lucky, or blessed, depending on the situation) as a boxcar artichoke" led to his nickname, one he wears with pride as a hero of Paragon.
The Mighty Crusaders had, at some point in the 80s, two completely unrelated characters called 'the Shield' in them.
What about the Jay Garrick Flash? The Alan Scott Green Lantern? A recent issue of JSA had 3 Hourmen in the same story. And let's not even get into the number of Starmen, -girls and -women.
If you happen to have the old Handbook to the Marvel Universe issues, you'll notice several instances of one name being used by several characters. A lot of the alternate versions are not necessarily concurrent, and yes, often some or all versions are not exactly well-known or beloved characters. But it's not unheard of.
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Go for it, Memphis Bill!|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Does it fit the character? Who are you to say it's a "valid" or "acceptable" - or even "pleasing" name, on a character not of your own?
Some people don't like numbers in names. Well, I have a character who's a Seeker - on his native world, a combination cop, bounty hunter and military "elite." Being a cop, he made enemies, one of which framed him. To protect his family from disgrace, he dropped his name and is known only by his designation - Seeker209. I have characters that don't *need* "heroic" names (or villainous ones.) They just go by their own names. And it's perfectly fine for them - because that's how the character is. Or, like my forum handle, a partial name with something to go along with it that hints at his background. I have characters that go by designations of the items or armor they use - I've got a series of Crey armor prototypes with a designator and name (CTI Dreamer, for instance - Crey Tank - Illusion.) Much like military hardware, especially aircraft (see "F6F Hellcat, F-14 Tomcat, F-22 Raptor.") Want a reasoning for "Boxcar artichoke?" OK. Arthur - or Arti to his friends - was down on his luck. Losing his job, his home, everything he owned, he started riding the rails, hopping on cars when they could to get from place to place. One of the places they passed through, though, was a research facility - one that had had been leaking radioactive compounds and chemicals into the ground for years. The chemicals changed him, though he didn't know it at the time. The way it reacted in him caused him to influence the growth of plants. He found out when, unable to find food, he hopped back onto the next available boxcar. His needs and his hunger influenced the agricultural goods he was among, and he found himself blessed... with an abundance of artichokes. He sees them as a symbol of hope, now. Though nobody else seems to understand what he means, his oft-repeated comment of something being as "welcome (or lucky, or blessed, depending on the situation) as a boxcar artichoke" led to his nickname, one he wears with pride as a hero of Paragon. |
But I am the leading, and sole, authority on what is an acceptable name for my characters. I want the change for my sake, not for the sake of what I see on other characters in the game. That appears to be other peoples' beef.
Not every combination of words is suitable. Can't you admit even that small fact? Its not an issue of how creative you are that you can make anything fit - that may be your game, but it isn't necessarily mine.
And you can't just tell folks to "be more creative." That's like telling someone to compose better or paint better. Not everyone is a writer, musician, or artist.
Some folks just want more common everyday names that say "superhero." What is so hard to understand about that? And why is it such a burr up peoples' butt if it happens? It may be unappealing to some peoples' eye, but by Krypton! there are enough filtering options in this game that it shouldn't be a big problem for anyone (except the selfish "I gotta be the only one" people, who either haven't sounded in yet or have the good sense not to).
All I was saying is, in the VAST majority of situations where more than one person has a name in comic book lore, there is a reason for it.
To use your Wildcat example: There have been at least 4 Wildcats in the DC universe. The original Golden Age one. Then there was the Silver Age Wildcat, who happened to be the original's protege. Then you get down to the current Wildcats (of which there are 2). The part you glossed over is that BOTH of the current Wildcats have a connection to the original Golden Age Wildcat.
John Henry Irons was the Man of Steel, he never claimed to BE Superman, just that he felt it was his mission in life to continue his work. Superboy was a clone of Superman, he knew he wasn't the original, though he had similar traits. The 2 that were claiming to be the original were the one that actually WAS inhabiting his body, and the Cyborg Superman.
There were 2 people claiming to be Spider-Man at one point. One was a clone of Peter Parker who had the exact same abilities and they were impossible to conclusively tell apart.
Yes, there ARE cases of characters that had the same name as another, without having a connection. In almost every single case, they were villains who were in a major character's series for 2 or 3 issues and were never seen again. And they were never seen at the same time (that I'm aware of)
I understand perfectly that some folks just want common names that say "superhero".
What I don't understand is people's refusal to accept "first come, first served". Yes, you wanted that name, but someone else beat you to it. Think of something else.
And your repeated use of the name in this thread makes me think you are just pissed off because you can't name your new Rad/Fire blaster "Meltdown".
And, you've been around long enough, why didn't you snag it then when it was still available?
Edit: My point above was pointing out that you were using a bad example as far as naming conventions are concerned. You mentioned a bunch of characters with the same name and completely glossed over the fact that in every single case you mentioned there is a significant amount of story supporting why they have the same name.
A) They are related. The son takes the name of his father (in CoH lore, Manticore)
B) The new one was trained by or is the protege of the old one, and they take over when the old one is no longer active. (Bucky taking over for Captain America, Silver Age Wildcat)
C) Both characters are claiming to be the "real" one. (Spider-Man clone, Reign of the Supermen)
Jay Garrick was not active at the same time as Barry Allen (barring time travel), Barry Allen picked up the mantle and became The Flash when he gained super speed, apparently LONG after Jay Garrick was no longer active. I also just searched and found out something I didn't know, Barry Allen named himself after the Jay Garrick Flash from a comic book.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Then the only name restriction in your game is with *you,* and that's the one you've got to deal with. The devs can't do anything about that. It'd be like me refusing to eat at any restaraunt that doesn't have the word "Red" in the name. |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Velocity
Go for it, Memphis Bill!
But I am the leading, and sole, authority on what is an acceptable name for my characters. I want the change for my sake, not for the sake of what I see on other characters in the game. That appears to be other peoples' beef. Not every combination of words is suitable. Can't you admit even that small fact? Its not an issue of how creative you are that you can make anything fit - that may be your game, but it isn't necessarily mine. And you can't just tell folks to "be more creative." That's like telling someone to compose better or paint better. Not everyone is a writer, musician, or artist. Some folks just want more common everyday names that say "superhero." What is so hard to understand about that? And why is it such a burr up peoples' butt if it happens? It may be unappealing to some peoples' eye, but by Krypton! there are enough filtering options in this game that it shouldn't be a big problem for anyone (except the selfish "I gotta be the only one" people, who either haven't sounded in yet or have the good sense not to). |
The argument is not that "every combination of words is (or is not) suitable" - yes, I can probably come up with some interesting backstories for quite a few out-there names. But quite often it seems the people complaining about "how hard" it is to find names, or how there are "none available" don't want to venture very far afield. Even ignoring things like foreign words, mythology, etc. you can just go from, say, one to *two* words. "The Tornado" isn't available? How about the Red Tornado? Scarlet Tornado? Tornado Red? Crimson Whirlwind? It's not a difficult mental exercise - heck, it doesn't have to be a mental exercise at all. (See also thesaurus.com, wikipedia.org and other reference sites.) Heck, with this issue, you're not even tied in to the powerset's default colors ("Why would I call myself the Green Tornado when it's grey/pink?")
Color, of course, is only one option. Pretty much *any* descriptor can be added. Place names (state, city, country or other locale.) Those that hint at time, or at generation, or purpose.
But if you (generic you) only want - say - one word names, well, the limitation is completely self imposed.
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Probably because it never was. It's a Marvel character from 1985.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
And your repeated use of the name in this thread makes me think you are just pissed off because you can't name your new Rad/Fire blaster "Meltdown".
And, you've been around long enough, why didn't you snag it then when it was still available? |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Okay, that's actually another good point. |
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Probably because it never was. It's a Marvel character from 1985.
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How many classic, one word superhero names are unavailable because of copyrights or trademarks from one of the many comic book publishers out there?
I can't be "Chamber" because it is a Marvel character, even though I can think of literally dozens of possibilities for that name that have nothing to do with Marvel's Chamber.
I look at names in-game the same way. Someone else has the name, whether or not they can sue me for using it is completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the name is unavailable because it is trademarked, or because another player already has it. The result is the same.
I actually should have known Meltdown was blocked, I tried it myself a couple years ago and it came up "unavailable" rather than "already in use". Which means the name is blocked from ANYONE using it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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That's why the Commissioner always says "Let's get one of the Batmen here to help." That's why the crowd says, "Look, it's a Superman."
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Velocity
The poster I was responding to stated "there is only one," which is demonstrably wrong.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
"Meltdown" was someone else's example. For simplicity's sake, I just continued to use it. Actually, I'm reasonably happy with my current names, with almost 2 columns full. But that 3rd column of potential alts? Unlikely to be filled at this point.
Jay Garrick has been active during Wally West's, Bart Allen's, and Barry Allen's runs. (I'm not currently reading JSA or the new Flash title, but I think both Garrick and Allen are active right now.)
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Because we don't have to settle for that. Another competing company has demonstrated that alternatives are available. This a feedback board. Oddly enough, we are actually encouraged to speak out on features we might like to see in this game. I also think it would be positive for the game in terms of subscriptions and subscription retention.| What I don't understand is people's refusal to accept "first come, first served". Yes, you wanted that name, but someone else beat you to it. Think of something else. |
This idea would be especially a good for the casual player who doesn't spend all day at the console, alternating between the forums and his/her dual box. People who live this game are all about first come, first served. But people with other life priorities might see things a little differently.
Now that I've explained that to you, can someone answer my question - why the hate against the idea? Is it just asthetics, or is something else in play?
Memphis Bill:
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| Then the only name restriction in your game is with *you,* and that's the one you've got to deal with. |
But why would you advocate for any limitations? Why vehemently oppose the change? The thesaurus club can continue to be witty and clever and unique, but more ordinary mortals can also be happy. It would appear that much of the tech is already in place - we have invisible globals already.
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That's all it would take for you to stop playing the game permanently? That's not very much...
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Originally Posted by Bounder
The main reason I'll not play Champions is the no unique names feature they have. If they do that here, instant uninstall. Just one person's personal preference, but thought I'd cast my vote anyway, as seeing the suggestion to remove the restriction gave me a gross feeling, ick.
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First, how does the amount of time one has to play in have ANYTHING to do with their ability to name their character? |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Velocity
This idea would be especially a good for the casual player who doesn't spend all day at the console, alternating between the forums and his/her dual box. People who live this game are all about first come, first served. But people with other life priorities might see things a little differently.
Now that I've explained that to you, can someone answer my question - why the hate against the idea? Is it just aesthetics, or is something else in play? |
That's just a silly argument there. Whether someone plays for an hour or for 12 hours has NOTHING to do with whether or not a name is taken when they try it. Spending more time in the game doesn't mean you get preferential treatment on names.
My hate for the idea is partially aesthetics. I don't want to see a thousand Pyroguys running around.
The second reason is it would be easy to grief someone by creating a character that looks exactly like their main, with the same name, and spouting all kinds of vitriol in broadcast.
My main's name is Claws and Effect. Everyone on Pinnacle knows that is ME. If someone I pissed off decides to grief me by sending tells and spouting off in broadcast it damages how people will react to me, because I can't prove it WASN'T me.
Yes, I know the global name won't match. But what's to stop me from opening a second account and being a jerk on it, hoping no one catches me? Nothing. I can say I'm innocent until I'm blue in the face, but I'll NEVER be able to prove it.
I don't mind being disliked for something I'm guilty of, you can't please everyone, and not everyone is going to like you. But I really don't want the potential for something where someone could pretend to be me and have people hating me for something I didn't do.
As it is now, if someone dislikes me because of something I said, at least it was actually me saying it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
By the same token, ie. our characters being the stars of their own stories, I do however find they deserve quality names. PK makes a nice argument, which is utterly utterly flawed. Because, as has been pointed out, not all of his ideas are valid. Sure, we could just set up a name generator that mixes and adjective or title with a noun, but don't come running to me if you're stuck with the Flatulent Reaper, Leprosy Lad or Mr. Sister.
Of all those words and letters, there are only so many valid heroic or villainous or even just dramatic combination. And only a given percentage will actually both fit my tastes and wants, and the character concept. Granted, I once had a Fire/Fire Blaster called Empathy Healer, but you know what I'm talking about.
As such, I don't see anything wrong with freeing up names that haven't been on paid accounts for years now. Staggering should take care of most worries. Hasn't been paid for since before 2nd Anniversary? Free up. Hasn't been paid for since before 3rd Anniversary? Free up anything but 50s. Just for fun, have the crawler that does the freeing compile a list and post it up somewhere.
Winston Churchill