I think AE tickets are too good
By
EmperorSteele,
Posted on: 2009-09-07 16:55 in The Market and Inventions
Well, if you running a mission where you are getting tickets instead of drops, you will not have a chance of getting a purple. I'm not saying that this means that ticket farming still isn't worth it, but it is a factor to consider.
I'm Tealeaf, and I approve of this message.
See [URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=2134817#post2134817"]Useful Tagging for the good of the Forum[/URL], my guide to tags.
Both Fury Flechette and Tealeaf have valid points, so let me bring up my own recent experience with a level 9 toon.
I played a regular non-farm story arc in AE. There are some gems in there by the way, just hard to get anyone interested in them.
So I played through a 3-mission arc if I recall correctly. Got some 500 tickets all totaled. May seem like small change compared to the number of tickets dropped by a Boss Farm.
You can get a Bronze Recipe Random Roll for 60 tickets at the level 10-14 range. I received a Steadfast Protection (forget which one) and sold it at Wentworth's for 6,000,000+ INF. A few of the other recipes weren't as popular and haven't sold yet or went for low prices.
I can see where the OP is stating the AE Tickets are too good. I don't recall what the recipe drop rate was like for missions of this level, but for the most part, I don't recall being able to get 8 uncommon recipes from 3 missions in a row either.
Off-topic I know, but 47+ foes can drop purples? I thought it was 50s ONLY.
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It's anything that can drop a level 50 recipe, which is 47s and above.
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Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
Off-topic I know, but 47+ foes can drop purples? I thought it was 50s ONLY.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
yes, my beautiful Green zombies will be filling my inventory with purples in the brave new world of I16.
I do agree tickets are 'too good'- the distillation effect makes them substantially better than 'real' drops.
I'm expecting the lure of purples to counterbalance that efficiency.
we'll see what happens!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Well here's the deal from my perspective.
Merit rewards for story arcs are going up. IIRC correctly from their current 40% rate to a 60% rate.
Merits can also be used to specify a level range on a random roll but can also be used to specify an exact level on recipes which you can't do with tickets.
Oroing on level 50 story arcs set to -1 level, spawns set for 6-8 players, and no bosses will be exactly what you want to farm. You'll get salvage drops (uncommons will be plentiful and the prices on those will tank especially in the tier 3 range), chances for purples, and merits at the end to buy/roll pool Cs, plus mission complete bonuses and chances at Pool B recipes that can be greatly increased by day jobs. The Oro arcs you want to farm will now be the ones that are multiple defeat alls, and the merits awarded at the end are just a bonus paid to you for farming that Oro arc. Not only that but there's no DR on Oro merits for repeating Oros and you can hold lots more random rolls worth of merits than you can random rolls worth of tickets.
That makes Oro the perfect farming grounds in I16.
AE and tickets will only be useful for rolling lots of Bronzes or to buy the exact piece of rare salvage that you can't get to drop for you randomly. The 1500 ticket cap is what will move farming out of the AE.
The favored city farm map will have to be set up with bosses, lieuts, and minions for normal rewards and custom mobs will be more difficult than dev content for the same rewards. If you want to farm it and finish it you'll only be able to set it for 4 players or you'll risk exceeding the ticket cap.
Most people will realize early on in I16 Live that AE is pretty much dead for farming and will now only really be useful for the originally intended purpose, letting the players tell their own stories. That means that the AE buildings will be pretty much ghost towns frequented by only those who were all ready only using it for its intended purpose, which according to my empirical data is about 1% of the game's population.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Heck, it's been my favorite all week. I got 4 purples this past weekend. |
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
That makes Oro the perfect farming grounds in I16. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Yep...started thinking about this when they adjusted the Merit formula on Test. | Oroing on level 50 story arcs set to -1 level, spawns set for 6-8 players, and no bosses will be exactly what you want to farm. You'll get salvage drops (uncommons will be plentiful and the prices on those will tank especially in the tier 3 range), chances for purples, and merits at the end to buy/roll pool Cs, plus mission complete bonuses and chances at Pool B recipes that can be greatly increased by day jobs. The Oro arcs you want to farm will now be the ones that are multiple defeat alls, and the merits awarded at the end are just a bonus paid to you for farming that Oro arc. Not only that but there's no DR on Oro merits for repeating Oros and you can hold lots more random rolls worth of merits than you can random rolls worth of tickets. |
I'm looking forward to running in Ouroland again with my toons...and not just the 50s. Making a spreadsheet now that will tell me which toons (for efficiency sake) across which levels, should run which arcs (for max merits/hour).
Repeat Offenders
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I'd say it's dead if you're farming for profit, but it's still better than the alternative for farming for xp. No caves, no missing glowies, no hostages, no caves, no kill all on arachnos base maps, no caves.. it's a more streamlined and predictable experience. It's also more profitable at low levels - 540 tickets = 1m infamy, which is disproportionately higher than what you'd get on a toon pre-30.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Most people will realize early on in I16 Live that AE is pretty much dead for farming and will now only really be useful for the originally intended purpose, letting the players tell their own stories. That means that the AE buildings will be pretty much ghost towns frequented by only those who were all ready only using it for its intended purpose, which according to my empirical data is about 1% of the game's population.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but, can't you currently still tell your own story? AE's main and original intentions included an alternative way to level 1 to 50. Some just found a loophole to do it faster and people such as yourself [assumption] and devs did not care for that.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
originally intended purpose, letting the players tell their own stories.
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Muchly appreciated if you would share that informaiton| I'm looking forward to running in Ouroland again with my toons...and not just the 50s. Making a spreadsheet now that will tell me which toons (for efficiency sake) across which levels, should run which arcs (for max merits/hour). |
Made a Claws/Regen scrapper (Dont laugh) for the sake of soloing TF's arcs, but im now wondering if it would be better possibly using a blaster for solo works
Global: @NR
POHSYB: We've been in this meeting for six hours. Can I go back to my box?
BLUE STEEL: No.
Pohsyb sighs.
You can farm 1500 tickets in about 6 minutes with certain builds (HI BRUTES!).
Thats 9000 tickets every 30 minutes or 18 000 an hour.
Thats 4 Gold rolls an hour (takes to long to go through Bronze rolls with that amount of tickets).
Pretty decent money.
I'm soloing the freak madness end room mish on my fire.fire.fire blaster, mapped for 3
The inspiration drop is just so great you can always have capped res and softcapped defense along with good 200%+ dmg as long as you keep killing fast
get about 2,300,000 a run with 1500 tickets, 6-9 mins
Tis good stuff
N I find Silver MUCH better than Gold rolls
7400 tickets to get 2 35-39 gold rolls and it's a bummer to get 2 lame recipes
or
Thats 13 silver rolls 35-39 which will pretty much garantee you some good inf
I'm making around 30-60 Million every half hour on my solo blaster depending on what drops, not too bad
Global: @NR
POHSYB: We've been in this meeting for six hours. Can I go back to my box?
BLUE STEEL: No.
Pohsyb sighs.
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Racing between my four 50 scrappers my best times are 8, 9, 10, and 15 minutes for ticket cap. Any idea if ticket rewards are being reduced for "pure" (minion or LT or boss) maps as xp is in i16?
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Originally Posted by Max_zero
You can farm 1500 tickets in about 6 minutes with certain builds (HI BRUTES!).
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Because you were also getting drops of enhancers and salvage as well.|
Originally Posted by Kryhavoc
I don't recall being able to get 8 uncommon recipes from 3 missions in a row either.
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Tickets are merely a more concentratable form of wealth drop.
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I agree. |
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
... however, I think because AE tickets are [too] good, you won't see the end of AE farming in issue 16...
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For a system that was supposed to have no drops, AE tickets sure seem like a more than a drop equivalent. As you pointed out, you get a better shot of picking what you want (and regardless of the enemy type that you are fighting).
I would be glad if they were only good for purchasing unlockables - though I do think that they could be expanded with other things such as temp powers only-usable in the AE, etc.
The mission ticket-cap was a good idea, but that was only the first step. The DEVs have had to concern themselves with dealing with the power-leveling issue first.
I'm obviously anti-farming, so might as well put that out before I start on what I think will go in regards to farming with the i16 release.
I think that there will be a lot less farming of the nature that we have seen since the AE/MA's release.
I agree that if the AE tickets aren't nerfed quite a bit, that the systems will still draw some "normal" farmers (pre-AE farmers).
I wouldn't reduce the ticket drops any more, but I would scale an increase in the purchase of items other than the unlockabales. Lower level and common salvage (bronze) costs increasing 1.5x, (silver) mid level and uncommons cost increasing at least 2x, and (Gold) high level and rares costs increasing 3x.
And maybe those increase are too lenient.
This points to the fact that the AE isn't intended to be a farming tool. Hopefully, it would cut down on the farming arcs being created (which aren't supposed to be in the AE anyway).
Farmers farmed plenty before AE but it didn't have the kind of impact on the rest of the game that farming in the AE does now.
Part of the problem with the AE is the power-leveling aspect - which is being addressed.
The other part of the problem is the farming for superior rewards issue - which also needs to be addressed.
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Yeah, why not make them X10, X25 and X50.|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
I wouldn't reduce the ticket drops any more, but I would scale an increase in the purchase of items other than the unlockabales. Lower level and common salvage (bronze) costs increasing 1.5x, (silver) mid level and uncommons cost increasing at least 2x, and (Gold) high level and rares costs increasing 3x.
And maybe those increase are too lenient. |
Since nobody is going to waste their time in an MA that under-rewards anwyay, ya might as well swing for the fences!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I think my plan is to ticket cap a few toons before i16; and just use them to buy missing salvage as the need arises, with 15 storage bins I should be able to make those tickets last a few months.
I don't get a lot of time to farm these days but I am looking forward to seeing how well my Frad does on NetherGoat's zombie map set for 6 or 8 .... on a side note in the current system if you are set to setting 2 or 4 and have a full team isn't that spawning for 9 ?
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
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Tickets are roughly tied to XP and inf, so yes, you'll get less tickets. People also need to remember that tickets, like merits, are deterministic - since you're only getting those tickets, you aren't getting any random drops, one of which might've been what you need. Merits mean you no longer get that recipe at the end of every TF/SF, but you can save up for something you want (or a random roll).|
Originally Posted by Reptlbrain
Racing between my four 50 scrappers my best times are 8, 9, 10, and 15 minutes for ticket cap. Any idea if ticket rewards are being reduced for "pure" (minion or LT or boss) maps as xp is in i16?
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By bringing the high-end XP of MA arcs (see: farms) more in line with standard content (see: farmed dev-created missions) they're also effectively lowering the ticket rate.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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You can currently tell your own story and I have. The problem is that most of what is posted in the AE is either garbage or farms and once you've told your story the only way to get more story slots is to buy them (which I'm not interested in doing) or have your story get Dev Choiced or Hall of Famed.|
Originally Posted by Prez1
Correct me if I'm wrong but, can't you currently still tell your own story? AE's main and original intentions included an alternative way to level 1 to 50. Some just found a loophole to do it faster and people such as yourself [assumption] and devs did not care for that.
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My stories were published in the first week of live AE and are at 11 plays and 14 plays and both are at 5 stars and I know them to be good from the comments that I have gotten but since there is so much garbage out there the chances of a random player finding them are all most non-existant. That means that I won't be crafting any more stories even though I may have more ideas for some.
Even with the new tags it's still hard to find stories and harder still to find good ones.
I have no problem with farming in and of itself and there are times that I feel like rounding up large swarms of stuff and obliterating it but not to the exclusion of every thing else.
Even once this is done I won't be able to find decent stories unless the devs purge every thing and make folks repost their stories again which won't happen since folks have purchased story slots.
My opinion is, and the proof is in the execution of AE, that the AE was released prematurely, warnings from beta testers weren't heeded, the publishing black out from their marketing department, and all the unwarranted bans that took place after have all combined to make AE something it wasn't supposed to be and there's going to be far too much work required to fix it/return it to it's intended purpose.
So will I still be using it? I'm done telling my stories, I can't find good ones written by others because of all the chaff that's there, that chaff probably won't be getting purged.
With all those things to consider the answer is no, I won't be. I can go grab a story that I know I like and be half way done with it by the time I find one even half way worth running in the AE.
I'll be spending my time playing content that I know I'll enjoy rather than wasting time looking for content I "might" enjoy.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Alt, please don't take this question as an attack or a "you're completely wrong". It's not intended to be either. I am just curious about the answer.|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
I'm obviously anti-farming, so might as well put that out before I start on what I think will go in regards to farming with the i16 release.
I think that there will be a lot less farming of the nature that we have seen since the AE/MA's release. I agree that if the AE tickets aren't nerfed quite a bit, that the systems will still draw some "normal" farmers (pre-AE farmers). |
I can understand people's dislike of power leveling. I personally agree with putting a damper on power leveling. I am curious though why you dislike farming, which is not necessarily the same thing. If a person is running alone and not trying to powerlevel someone, and they are able to clear maps spawned for larger and/or higher level teams, what is the issue?
If your point is that the AE Tickets are not balanced with non-AE drops, that is one thing. If you are saying that farming, regardless of where and how, should be done way with, then I can't understand the logic.
- Garielle
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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My apologies to Alt, but I have been playing a few of the AE missions that I have been pulling up in my search.
My current search parameters are 'not completed, not voted, my level' then I sort by date. I am still on 04/08/2009 and I have found quite a few gems in these stories. I have actually, very rarely, come across a story arc that I have not enjoyed playing.
Since I, myself, have a lot of alts to play with, unless I get a mood to play a specific alt, I just alternate between them. How I do that is I will play one contact full of missions and one AE story arc and then move on to another alt. If a toon is level 25+, I add one Ouroboros mission to the mix as well, since all of my level 25+ alts outleveled their contacts before the Earn XP/No XP option was added.
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That's going to prove quite effective when I16 hits. You'll earn the same XP/kill rate with your Ouroboros missions that you earn with your current contact missions. |
Originally Posted by Kryhavoc
Since I, myself, have a lot of alts to play with, unless I get a mood to play a specific alt, I just alternate between them. How I do that is I will play one contact full of missions and one AE story arc and then move on to another alt. If a toon is level 25+, I add one Ouroboros mission to the mix as well, since all of my level 25+ alts outleveled their contacts before the Earn XP/No XP option was added.
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- Garielle
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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Certainly, I can share, but the toons in the spreadsheet will be my own 30 some-odd combos (with their respective build tweaks)...not all combos in the game.|
Originally Posted by Raccoon_
Muchly appreciated if you would share that informaiton
Made a Claws/Regen scrapper (Dont laugh) for the sake of soloing TF's arcs, but im now wondering if it would be better possibly using a blaster for solo works |
But where your stable and mine (WS, Son/EM blaster, Fire/Kin, Widow, SS/WP, etc.) intersect, there would certainly be value.
Repeat Offenders
Make no mistake, I love them, so I don't want them nerfed any time soon; however, I think because AE tickets are so good, you won't see the end of AE farming in issue 16.
Farming on a non-AE farm will yield you rare salvage drops, some very sellable uncommon salvage, common IO recipes, the occasional set IO, a small chance of a pool C/D on boss defeats and a very small chance of getting purples on mobs that are level 47+. While this seems on balance better than what you can get with AE tickets, I think the flexibility of AE tickets win out over traditional non-AE rewards.
With AE tickets you can:
* Select the level of the drop you wish, enabling you to get recipes you've outleveled
* Select the quality of the drop. While gold and silver roll prices are high, a good farming toon can make up tickets by the boatload, making such prices a non factor.
* Grab specific IO recipes, uncommon and rare salvage. You often end up pay a premium, but you get exactly what you want.
It's the ability to have more control over the rewards you receive that makes AE tickets so powerful. When issue 16 hits, I don't think you'll see a mass exodus out of the AE building, though you will see less padder requests. Farmers will probably keeping the rewards set for 8 to themselves...in both AE and out of AE.
Personally, I'd like to see traditional content get a boost in the rewards department such as allowing merits to be rewarded to all team members who help complete a story arc, or allow some customizability on the type of rewards given upon mission completion, etc. The way I see it now though, AE tickets will still be superior even after the release of issue 16.