Wow, when did the Vanguard Rogue's get stupid hard?
By
Anaxagoras,
Posted on: 2009-09-02 20:42 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Vanguard and Cimerorans are some of the nastiest fleshlings around.
Cimerorans I have a real grudge against, mind. Seriously, some guy with a sword, shield and a spear? Can beat my high-tech armour plated characters? Thematically that's so much tripe. Now, if they were mediocre but there were so many they mobbed you to death...that I could live with...Ah well, they all die to our SG teams anyway ^^
Vanguard, though...hoo boy. I love Vanguard. And I mean no sarcasm. They are IMO, one the finer creations of the Devs. Kickass costume stuff, awesome arcs and whatnot, actual mob unlockables (the armour, etc)...and the Rogues. These guys are meant to be equipped to cut Rikti down like grass, how much chance do people think Earth tech would stand against them?
Gamewise, it's satisfying beating the snot out of something trickier. I remember testing one of my arcs which used them (Now lost due to laptop dying) with my Tanker, thinking 'What the heck is happening to my health? ... Oh, you did NOT just debuff me that much!' Much pummeling ensued ^^
Also, for an added challenge; Someone try and fight one of the Vanguard HVAS's. Stick one in an AE mish as a foe, and see how you fair. Seriously, my tanker had stood toe to toe with Bile, Requiem, Hro' Dotz and some of the nastier foes in game and still been alive at the end, but the HVAS trampled him into a mechanical smear on the ground.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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My Kat/WP doesn't have too many problems with Vanguard (barring the bosses - they frustrate meh so). But, I'm pretty sure that doesn't really surprise anyone. :/ She glides through a lot of content, especially if I can get and keep Divine Avalanche up.
They're probably one of my favorite groups in the game to fight, right up there with Rularuu around the Storm Palace.
..I really should get some of my other characters up to 45 and try them out with different combinations.
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Me.|
Originally Posted by Zekiran_Immortal
I wonder if anyone's ever survived their first whole encounter with them? They are tough, indeed.
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Oppressive Gloom for the win, as they say.
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If you have some way to aoe stun, you should be fine. Or fear, or hold, or whatever.|
Originally Posted by Willowpaw
So that pretty much locks out Scrappers, Tankers, and Brutes then? Not a whole lot those three ATs can do outside melee range.
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If you have no control, then it sucks a lot.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Imagine if you came across a two-three sapper spawn.|
Originally Posted by Smurch
You know, I've never had any trouble with Malta (nor any of those other groups) on any of my characters. The only ones you have to worry about are the Sappers and those are squishy. The Vanguard are much, much harder. They are easily the hardest group I've faced in the game.
I only play villain side, so there may be a fundamental AT difference there. |
Ah, the good old days.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Been fighting a lot of malta the last few nights as I close in on 50 with my brute, and it's been very weird to see how few sappers show up these days.|
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
Imagine if you came across a two-three sapper spawn.
Ah, the good old days. |
I had one mission last night that was a HUGE base map with multiple levels: 2 sappers the entire mission. We used to get them every spawn.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I see you run with suppress close GFX.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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My MA/SR scrapper solo'd most of the arc without to much problem. If they can't hit you, they can't debuff you. |
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
What others said. Vanguard Sword are only painful when they're in melee. Keep them at range, and they're cheesepuffs.
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I am under the impression that they were specifically designed to be more challenging for 'crunchies' than they are for 'squishies'.
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Originally Posted by Protonic_Flux
Been awhile since I ran thru the old RWZ story arcs so I thought I would give them a pass again on a dark/dark brute. Now at level 45 there arnt too many villain or hero groups that I dread fighting. But after doing 3 missions of Gaussian's arc I had to wonder, WTH is wrong with my toon.
I've had no problems fighting against Malta, or Carnies, Circle or anything else. But these guys were nearly killing me on every turn. A even conning group of 2 rogue vanguard were wiping out nearly all of my hitpoints in a matter of seconds. All my enhancements are in the green. So is it this power combo or does this group maybe need to be looked at and nerfed. Hell, they've done enough nerfing to regen that maybe that arc should get a pass by the devs. On a special note, while I was griping and grumbling about it in the chat room someone who was playing a high end WP tanker chimed in with a here here! Meaning that they had problems on that arc too. So were the devs feeling particularly @#!$y that day when they designed them? |
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Yeah, I've been noticing the same thing. Malta tend to be less diverse than usual these days. I've run a few missions that had nothing but Operations Engineers in it.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Been fighting a lot of malta the last few nights as I close in on 50 with my brute, and it's been very weird to see how few sappers show up these days.
I had one mission last night that was a HUGE base map with multiple levels: 2 sappers the entire mission. We used to get them every spawn. |
Really, though, I don't find anything in this game more challenging than a Master Illusionist. This is on my Rad/Dark Corr and Dark/Rad Defender.
I remember running this arc the first time on my Energy Melee/Electric Brute when Issue 10 (IIRC) was first introduced. This same brute soloed a few AVs and made general PvE content a joke.
However, I was soon face down, looking at the lovely linoleum that populated the wharehouse where these devilish Vanguard stood. It was pretty awesome to find something in this game that made me actually take pause and think about tactics...ON A BRUTE. WTH?!?! 
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My Gravity/Ice Dominator (back before the buff) did fine, mainly because I had read about them ahead of time here on the forums and knew to keep them the heck out of melee. Some people like to say that a Dom HAS to be in melee, but she's always tended to stay at range, so she didn't have much problem. Hold 'em all, pick them off, spamming holds as necessary. If all else fails, hide in the Singularity. I saved Domination for the Wizard (purple-conned), and he never got off a shot.|
Originally Posted by Zekiran_Immortal
I wonder if anyone's ever survived their first whole encounter with them? They are tough, indeed.
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There's one mission where you're not only facing Vanguard, but a prior ally as well (details omitted to avoid spoilers), and he had a bugged habit at the time of spawning as a full-on Hero, the 32k+ hp high-damage type, no matter what difficulty or team size. He is hostile to the Vanguard. The three Vanguard he was facing took him down to HALF HIS HEALTH before he won. Sadly I knew I wasn't prepared for a Hero fight even with "only" that much hp, so I had to reset the mission.
I hated Rogue Vanguard on most of my characters until I did those arcs with my Bane Spider, Night Widow and /SR Brute - being able to avoid most of their debuffs/damage mitigates most of their nastiness.
Actually one of the things I love about CoH/V is the fact that just because an enemy group was difficult with one character doesn't mean they'll be difficult with another, and ditto for those you find easy with some characters. It gives the game a lot of replay value.
1 out of so many villain groups give you trouble and your going to stop SMASH! and run off like "Little Baby"?
Try fighting Malta as a Kin/Energy Defender... even 1 Minion is enough to give you some trouble at times with their crazy stun duration.
Everybody has their weaknesses. Invul Tanks stay away from Rularuu, Defenders stay away from Malta (Like eveybody else almost) and you stay away fom Vanguard Sword.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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I ran with them a few times on various toons. From Zombie/Dark; Ninja Blade/regen and Dark Melee/Willpower. They have all rocked them pretty go without any problems. The only time I felt the pinch was against a wizard who was hiding in the corner....still it is not that bad.
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Originally Posted by Zekiran_Immortal
I wonder if anyone's ever survived their first whole encounter with them? They are tough, indeed.
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Yeah, they turned Malta spawns weird at some point when they drastically cut down on Sapper spawns.
| Yeah, I've been noticing the same thing. Malta tend to be less diverse than usual these days. I've run a few missions that had nothing but Operations Engineers in it. |
Wow, definently alot more responses then I ever expected from a midnight rant about Vanguard.
I think I'll go grab my overly IO'd Electric blaster and seek some revenge.
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