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Well, how is this set really that different from the current Leaping pool? If the main power of the set functions the same way, and the 2nd and 4th power in the set are basically the same (the 4th tier power is actually weaker than Acrobatics), and the first tier power is basically about the same as Combat Jumping, what is in this set that is actually different?|
Originally Posted by McBoo
Yes the idea of swinging as a travel power has been discussed before. After 5+ years most of the suggestions on the forums have already been made and discussed. With the release of CO alot of things that were considered too much work or low priority will more than likely be reassessed in light of the looming competition. As such I present the following.
Swinging Gymnastics - You have honed your body to the peak of perfection allowing you to race across the rooftops with amazing speed and agility. Almost no obstacle exists that you cannot overcome or bypass with relative ease. (Maybe even add in somersault animation in if the player hits jump again while in mid air, just for flavor) +5 Def buff, improved jump (50% Hurdle) and improved speed (50%Swift) Spin Kick - You put the momentum of your entire body behind this ferocious kick. The sheer power of this attack is such that it will bring even the strongest man to his knees. 32 smashing damage, KD, melee range Swinging - When the rooftops run out there is only one thing to do, take to the air! With a grapnel and a stout cable you fly without wings and the canyons of concrete and glass are now your playground. similar to Super Jump in speed and operation Equilibrium - You have attained perfect balance allowing you to keep your feet no matter what is thrown your way. [i]+4 mag KB protection[i/] > |
I'm not bashing your idea here, I just want to know what you think would set this power pool apart.
Also to keep in mind: AT modifiers. While the +5% Defense on Gymnastics might be on Tankers, Blasters are only going to get around 2.5%. If Blasters get the 5%, Tankers are going to get around 10%. This is due to AT modifiers on DefBuffs. Tankers get higher values than Blasters.
Also, for Spin Kick, is that 32 Damage for a Defender or a Scrapper? Things like that can change the set balance-wise. Better in these stages to keep things like damage in the minor, moderate, extreme-type range instead of putting down specific numbers.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Yes, CO has swinging. And yes, it looks exactly as stupid as the devs have pointed out more than once if you use it in an area where there isn't anything above you to swing from.
My characters - all on Virtue.
Gabe's Internet [censored] Theory
RMT spammers WILL steal your credit card.
Thanks for the input Aett!
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Hmm, you may have a point here. I was looking to stick with same general format used by Super Speed and Leaping and may have hit a little too close to the mark. I'll work on that.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well, how is this set really that different from the current Leaping pool? If the main power of the set functions the same way, and the 2nd and 4th power in the set are basically the same (the 4th tier power is actually weaker than Acrobatics), and the first tier power is basically about the same as Combat Jumping, what is in this set that is actually different?
I'm not bashing your idea here, I just want to know what you think would set this power pool apart. |
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Also to keep in mind: AT modifiers. While the +5% Defense on Gymnastics might be on Tankers, Blasters are only going to get around 2.5%. If Blasters get the 5%, Tankers are going to get around 10%. This is due to AT modifiers on DefBuffs. Tankers get higher values than Blasters. Also, for Spin Kick, is that 32 Damage for a Defender or a Scrapper? Things like that can change the set balance-wise. Better in these stages to keep things like damage in the minor, moderate, extreme-type range instead of putting down specific numbers. |
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
Also, how would you swing over the vast tracts of ocean between islands in some place like Nerva?
It would look ridiculous to have ropes going off into nowhere above you. Would you be unable to use that travel power in that situation? And if THAT'S the case, who would take a travel power that can't be used somewhere?
The devs could easily add swinging as a travel power if they were inclined to, I can't imagine the coding would be that difficult. In all likelyhood, they didn't add it in the beginning because of how dumb it would look in certain situations, and they didn't want to add a travel power that had limited use in order for it to make sense.
Think about it, outside of Manhattan or another large urban area Spider-Man has no travel power, he relies on Hurdle and Combat Jumping (he doesn't have Super Jump, he can jump far, but not THAT far)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I'm sorry but Dev team has made very clear that engine of COX cannot support any type of swinging or wall climbing powers at all. 
Prunejuice is warriors drink.
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Like stated before, that is up to the players to clarify for themselves. How can you clarify superspeed in water or superjump in water? Yet that doesn't stop people from doing exactly that.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Also, how would you swing over the vast tracts of ocean between islands in some place like Nerva?
It would look ridiculous to have ropes going off into nowhere above you. Would you be unable to use that travel power in that situation? And if THAT'S the case, who would take a travel power that can't be used somewhere? |
The M.A.D. Files - Me talking about games, films, games, life, games, internet and games
I'm not good at giving advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?
@Lyrik
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Originally Posted by Lyrik
Like stated before, that is up to the players to clarify for themselves. How can you clarify superspeed in water or superjump in water? Yet that doesn't stop people from doing exactly that.
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As a player, I clairfy:
Superspeed in water - you just swim really fast
Superjump on water - you are so strong that you can hurl yourself anywhere
Swinging over water - you...what? I can't come up with anything that doesn't sound really stupid.
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Originally Posted by EmpYou
As a player, I clairfy:
Superspeed in water - you just swim really fast Superjump on water - you are so strong that you can hurl yourself anywhere Swinging over water - you...what? I can't come up with anything that doesn't sound really stupid. |
Well to be honest, there are spiders that can glide using their webbing for quite a long distance...
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See this never worked for me, in my mind Super Jump should stop working when you hit the water because super strong legs or the ability to leap great distances doesn't change the surface of the water to a solid. This would mean that your downward momentum would actually drive you fairly deep under water. Instead you just splash in and splash out as if the middle of the ocean is no deeper than a kiddie pool so there is a level of suspension of disbelief required there.|
Originally Posted by EmpYou
As a player, I clairfy:
Superjump on water - you are so strong that you can hurl yourself anywhere |
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| Swinging over water - you...what? I can't come up with anything that doesn't sound really stupid. |
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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IIRC, it was never stated that the engine would not support wall crawling only that it would require a herculean amount of work to implement. As far as a swinging travel power was concerned here was a brief discussion about coding it so that players would have to target buildings to swing from and that would also require a herculean amount of work to implement. So if you take away the need for target buildings/structures it shouldn't require as much work. |
Originally Posted by zachary_EU
I'm sorry but Dev team has made very clear that engine of COX cannot support any type of swinging or wall climbing powers at all.
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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If you hit the surface of water hard enough, it'll act pretty damn similar to to a solid for a brief moment (ever heard of surface tension?). That's the reason why if you're diving into water from a good distance up, you want to enter the water at a point (feet pointed down, or hands first) to pierce the surface... hitting the water flat on would cause the water to act similar to a brick wall (as in, it'll hurt a hell of a lot if you're lucky).
| See this never worked for me, in my mind Super Jump should stop working when you hit the water because super strong legs or the ability to leap great distances doesn't change the surface of the water to a solid. This would mean that your downward momentum would actually drive you fairly deep under water. Instead you just splash in and splash out as if the middle of the ocean is no deeper than a kiddie pool so there is a level of suspension of disbelief required there. |
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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The main difference between SJ and swinging is SJ is already in the game. Does it work thematically for everyone? No, not really - but if you take Kitsunes analysis, it makes more sense then "Sky hooks"
And yes, spiderman could travel anywhere with his web in the cartoons and comics, but its a question everyone asks "Where does his web go when he shoots it into the air?"
Perhaps we could see a youtube video of how it looks from CO - if it looks as bad as it sounds I wouldn't want it anywhere near this game.
As stated before swinging over vast areas with nothing to swing from would not be logical.
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They also made it very clear that power customization would not be possible, and would not happen. But look what happened...
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Originally Posted by zachary_EU
I'm sorry but Dev team has made very clear that engine of COX cannot support any type of swinging or wall climbing powers at all.
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Nor is super jumping in water. Logic has nothing to do whether or not they can add it.
Server limitations or other reasons do.
And the devs never said Power customization was never possible, they said it would take long time
The M.A.D. Files - Me talking about games, films, games, life, games, internet and games
I'm not good at giving advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?
@Lyrik
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Have you noticed the water in the game is maybe 3 feet deep? Logic has a lot to do with it, why else would they go out of the way to explain things? If logic didn't matter they would throw things in the game and tell us to roleplay it ourselves.
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Originally Posted by Lyrik
Nor is super jumping in water. Logic has nothing to do whether or not they can add it.
Server limitations or other reasons do. And the devs never said Power customization was never possible, they said it would take long time |
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Actually if you are willing to accept surface tension as an explanation for why a human sized or larger object can be thrown at terminal velocity onto the surface of a large body of water and bounce back off I don't know why you would have a problem with anti-gravity "sky hooks". I'm sure there are folks in the game that already use anti-gravity boots, belts, suits, etc. as explanation for flight.|
Originally Posted by EmpYou
The main difference between SJ and swinging is SJ is already in the game. Does it work thematically for everyone? No, not really - but if you take Kitsunes analysis, it makes more sense then "Sky hooks".
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| Perhaps we could see a youtube video of how it looks from CO - if it looks as bad as it sounds I wouldn't want it anywhere near this game. |
The video has been available on gaming sites and the main site for quite a while.
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
I'd personally not mind a 'swinging' set (or a swing set, for that matter 
) being in this game. But I do not want a new travel power that's just a clone of an already existing one with just different names and animations.
A swinging travel power should have pros and cons compared to the other travel powers. Maybe it doesn't have suppression in the normal sense, but while it's in use you can't really stop moving and you keep swinging around with poor-ish control. Also, when first activating before you can actually move the hook has to shoot out to the target (whatever that is), and then you start swinging forward (you can curve, and rotate your character, but no sudden movements... i.e. kinda like you're on a real swing).
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A short while ago the devs (IIRC, Positron) mentioned that they have toyed with the idea of adding new travel powers, but its been rejected each time. Can't remember the specifics of why, but if anyone can find the article (should be somewhat circa when i16/powercustomization was being announced) I believe it gave a reason.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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They never said it wouldn't be possible. They just said that it would take more manpower and man-hours than they could afford. When that changed, it happened.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Wonka
They also made it very clear that power customization would not be possible, and would not happen. But look what happened...
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My characters - all on Virtue.
Gabe's Internet [censored] Theory
RMT spammers WILL steal your credit card.
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And if you pay close attention you'll note that you're not actually swinging /from/ anything. The arc is identical each time and unrelated to the proximity of anything you might be hooking that grapple on to. |
Originally Posted by McBoo
http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/24470 The video has been available on gaming sites and the main site for quite a while. > |
It's less 'swinging' than 'flying with a constant bob in your motion' and the only reason it looks even halfway decent is because they chose the camera angle in that video to make you focus on the shiny swinging in the hopes people wouldn't pay attention to the fact that they're "swinging" several meters /above/ the treetops in the forest area...
Take a few steps back and try to imagine what it'd look like to someone else watching you 'swing' from a distance.
My characters - all on Virtue.
Gabe's Internet [censored] Theory
RMT spammers WILL steal your credit card.
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All I need to know about jumping over water I learned from Soul Reaver's Raziel. His ability to be swimming one moment and then leap 50 feet out of the water the next is explanation enough.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
If you hit the surface of water hard enough, it'll act pretty damn similar to to a solid for a brief moment (ever heard of surface tension?). That's the reason why if you're diving into water from a good distance up, you want to enter the water at a point (feet pointed down, or hands first) to pierce the surface... hitting the water flat on would cause the water to act similar to a brick wall (as in, it'll hurt a hell of a lot if you're lucky).
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And, guys, let's forget that there's explanation and then there's visualisation. Yes, you can EXPLAIN grappling hooks flying into the air and blowing up into balloons, but have you ANY concept how ridiculous such a thing would look? I've seen Swinging in Champions Online, and it looks cool only if you turn off your brain and never leave the city limits. There it looks good because you can't see where the grappling hook is going, but you CAN assume it's grappling to a building overhead. But swinging over the taiga of Canada where you're a fair distance above the tallest object? It looks like you're grappling clouds. And it looks just as patently ridiculous in the Spider Man game during the fight with the Green Goblin which takes place over a large open park with no buildings close by.
Personally, I'd rather see a borrow from DC Universe Online, allowing Super Speeders to run up buildings and jumpers to cling to walls. That'd put an end to climbing buildings by the GOD DAMN WINDOW SILLS! That, however, is an engine addition which most likely isn't trivial to make.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Sorry, no point of reference here.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
All I need to know about jumping over water I learned from Soul Reaver's Raziel. His ability to be swimming one moment and then leap 50 feet out of the water the next is explanation enough.
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| And, guys, let's forget that there's explanation and then there's visualisation. Yes, you can EXPLAIN grappling hooks flying into the air and blowing up into balloons, but have you ANY concept how ridiculous such a thing would look? I've seen Swinging in Champions Online, and it looks cool only if you turn off your brain and never leave the city limits. There it looks good because you can't see where the grappling hook is going, but you CAN assume it's grappling to a building overhead. But swinging over the taiga of Canada where you're a fair distance above the tallest object? It looks like you're grappling clouds. And it looks just as patently ridiculous in the Spider Man game during the fight with the Green Goblin which takes place over a large open park with no buildings close by. |
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| Personally, I'd rather see a borrow from DC Universe Online, allowing Super Speeders to run up buildings and jumpers to cling to walls. That'd put an end to climbing buildings by the GOD DAMN WINDOW SILLS! That, however, is an engine addition which most likely isn't trivial to make. |
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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| Still I think that CO, DCUO and even the vaporware that is the Marvel MMO is going to cause Paragon Studios to do a lot of things that they didn't have the time, manpower or money for in the past. Vive la concurrence! |
Taking Castle's post as being still serious with some humor mixed in, it would sound to me that this would be something he would like to see but knows what it would take to get added which makes it unlikely.
Personally, I am not sure I would ever use swinging as a travel power, but not opposed to it being added if people let their imaginations go free.
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As logical as that is, players wouldn't pick a travel power that didn't include a way to precisely change course. I assume that's the reason you can change direction in midair with Super Jump even though you simply shouldn't be able to.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Maybe it doesn't have suppression in the normal sense, but while it's in use you can't really stop moving and you keep swinging around with poor-ish control.
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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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They wouldn't pick it if it was a clone of super jump with just that change. They would if it was its own travel power, with its own pros and cons, with that being one of the cons. The less control would make it more like Teleport in that respect, as it doesn't have very good control and is practically useless for short distances, but for macro movements (not micro), it should work rather well.
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Originally Posted by Sardan
As logical as that is, players wouldn't pick a travel power that didn't include a way to precisely change course. I assume that's the reason you can change direction in midair with Super Jump even though you simply shouldn't be able to.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Yes the idea of swinging as a travel power has been discussed before. After 5+ years most of the suggestions on the forums have already been made and discussed. With the release of CO alot of things that were considered too much work or low priority will more than likely be reassessed in light of the looming competition. As such I present the following.
Swinging
Gymnastics - You have honed your body to the peak of perfection allowing you to race across the rooftops with amazing speed and agility. Almost no obstacle exists that you cannot overcome or bypass with relative ease. (Maybe even add in somersault animation in if the player hits jump again while in mid air, just for flavor)
+5 Def buff, improved jump (50% Hurdle) and improved speed (50%Swift)
Spin Kick - You put the momentum of your entire body behind this ferocious kick. The sheer power of this attack is such that it will bring even the strongest man to his knees.
32 smashing damage, KD, melee range
Swinging - When the rooftops run out there is only one thing to do, take to the air! With a grapnel and a stout cable you fly without wings and the canyons of concrete and glass are now your playground.
similar to Super Jump in speed and operation
Equilibrium - You have attained perfect balance allowing you to keep your feet no matter what is thrown your way.
+4 mag KB protection
>
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat