Ok... NOW, what are the numbers for Traps (with i16 now open)
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-08-26 15:47 in Defenders
FFG is 13.3% DEF
Acid is 26.6% -RES
Poison Gas Trap... I don't recall.
Seeker Drones got boosted to 6.65% -ToHit and 26.6% -DMG, I believe.
And though you didn't ask:
Triage Beacon and Caltrops are unchanged.
Web Grenade is boosted for Immob (Defender mods)
Trip Mine and Time Bomb both do less damage for Defenders than for Corrs (and Blasters).
NOTE: These numbers were as of the 8/19 closed beta patch. They may have changed since.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
Time Bomb? Time Bomb is still in Traps!?
Ugh... -=FAIL!!=-
Seriously... that's probably THE most worthless power in the game, especially on a Corruptor, or now a Defender. Can we please get that thing changed? To something that someone might actually use at some point?
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
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Those are still correct. Poison Gas Trap is unchanged. Personally I'm fine with PGT being unchanged, it was Acid Mortar and FFG I most wanted to see updated.|
Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
FFG is 13.3% DEF
Acid is 26.6% -RES Poison Gas Trap... I don't recall. Seeker Drones got boosted to 6.65% -ToHit and 26.6% -DMG, I believe. |
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
Time Bomb? Time Bomb is still in Traps!?
Ugh... -=FAIL!!=- Seriously... that's probably THE most worthless power in the game, especially on a Corruptor, or now a Defender. Can we please get that thing changed? To something that someone might actually use at some point? |
Yeah, I think it's a bit of a slap in the face that the top tier powers of our primary are less effective than their counterparts, which are found in secondary sets.
I don't care that Defenders aren't supposed to do as much damage.
Primary > Secondary > Pool
You can't say "well you're good at buffing, not damage" and then give us damage powers in our primary set, a set that are supposed to be full of what we're good at.
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And you can easily get two of them out at the same time if you are using Hasten.
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Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
Acid is 26.6% -RES
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Out of curiosity, does Corruptor Lightning Storm hit for more or less than Defender Lightning Storm?
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Originally Posted by MrQuizzles
Yeah, I think it's a bit of a slap in the face that the top tier powers of our primary are less effective than their counterparts, which are found in secondary sets.
I don't care that Defenders aren't supposed to do as much damage. Primary > Secondary > Pool You can't say "well you're good at buffing, not damage" and then give us damage powers in our primary set, a set that are supposed to be full of what we're good at. |
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
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Less I think. Corrupters get the Controller version which does about 10% less.|
Originally Posted by Silas
Out of curiosity, does Corruptor Lightning Storm hit for more or less than Defender Lightning Storm?
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The defender version is also slightly better in it's End Draining abilities
Consistancy is a great thing really
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Are you sure that Defender's Acid Mortar and Seeker Drones debuffs more than Corruptor's version? Are you positive on this?
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Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
FFG is 13.3% DEF
Acid is 26.6% -RES Poison Gas Trap... I don't recall. Seeker Drones got boosted to 6.65% -ToHit and 26.6% -DMG, I believe. NOTE: These numbers were as of the 8/19 closed beta patch. They may have changed since. |
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I haven't checked it using a power analyzer but the in game description for the powers says that the debuffs are better for Acid Mortar, Seeker Drones and the defense buff for Force Field Generator (which I have checked since it's a buff not a debuff) are better for defenders.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Are you sure that Defender's Acid Mortar and Seeker Drones debuffs more than Corruptor's version? Are you positive on this?
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I was absolutely, without a doubt, positive as of 8/19/2009.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Are you sure that Defender's Acid Mortar and Seeker Drones debuffs more than Corruptor's version? Are you positive on this?
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If those numbers have not changed since, then I remain completely sure.
IOW: YES
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
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This is completely and blatantly false. While it's generally true that primary powers on a given AT are more powerful than the same set as a secondary on another AT, that's not how things work behind the scenes. For example, why doesn't a Corruptor do as much damage as a Blaster? They both have blast sets as their primary (the answer is AT modifiers, which is also the answer to your statment - see below).|
Originally Posted by MrQuizzles
Primary > Secondary > Pool
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For a more realistic example, let's look at Entangling Arrow. For Defenders it's a primary, but for Controllers it's a secondary. That means it should be better for Defenders, right? Wrong - well, kind of. The immobilize duration is longer for a Controller because of their AT modifiers, but the slow is better for Defenders, because of their AT modifiers. Same deal with Ice Arrow. Power effectiveness isn't based off whether a power is in a primary or secondary, but rather off an AT's modifiers for the specific attributes of that power.
EDIT: You are more or less correct about pool powers being weaker than in-set versions of powers, though there are some exceptions.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Bad choice of example... maybe.|
Originally Posted by macskull
For a more realistic example, let's look at Entangling Arrow. For Defenders it's a primary, but for Controllers it's a secondary. That means it should be better for Defenders, right? Wrong - well, kind of. The immobilize duration is longer for a Controller because of their AT modifiers, but the slow is better for Defenders, because of their AT modifiers. Same deal with Ice Arrow. Power effectiveness isn't based off whether a power is in a primary or secondary, but rather off an AT's modifiers for the specific attributes of that power.
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Defenders and Controllers have the same mods for Slows. Originally, Controllers had a higher Slow mod. This was discovered to be an error in that Conts were using the Defender mod and Defs were using the Cont mod. Instead of actually changing things to how they "should" be, the Devs just increased the lower mod so that they were equal. The only difference between Cont Entangling Arrow and Def Entangling Arrow is the Immob time.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
Hm, didn't know about that one. At any rate, my point stands - power attributes are based on AT modifiers, not whether they're in a primary or secondary.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Def traps looks decent. Very solo viable set and very very easy to soft cap (35% with just FF gen, weave, 3% IO, and 1 slotted cj) and still retains a resistance based shield in the epic for a very tough Trapper. (comparatively, cheap soft capped *s/l corr trappers are stuck with a def epic).
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Unless you're talking about any power which summons a pseudo-pet. Then it's all up to how the Devs implemented it and if they created different pets for different versions or not.|
Originally Posted by macskull
Hm, didn't know about that one. At any rate, my point stands - power attributes are based on AT modifiers, not whether they're in a primary or secondary.
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Hence the weirdness with Corrupter Lightning Storm, MMs in general and the various versions of Shield Charge, all of which do the same damage regardless of what AT is using it.
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Tell that to Lightning Storm. And Repulsion Bomb.|
Originally Posted by MrQuizzles
You can't say "well you're good at buffing, not damage" and then give us damage powers in our primary set, a set that are supposed to be full of what we're good at.
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I think for the Defender the main attribute is supposed to be the knockback, not the damage. It's Traps, though, it's derived from Devices. It's been this way since CoV launch, it's not going to be changed now.
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I think it's decent but never going to be FotM. I been leveling one up a bit on the test server and the set has some severe weaknesses at low levels due to lack of recharge. Even at high levels I think it's going to have positional and speed problems on a team but we'll see. It doesn't help that the Tier 9 is basically useless and the Tier 8 is of limited utility. As you say it's got good options for softcapping although overall I'd rate it a bit below Trick Arrow as a utility set. Still, I'll definitely be making one for real once I16 goes live.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Def traps looks decent. Very solo viable set and very very easy to soft cap (35% with just FF gen, weave, 3% IO, and 1 slotted cj) and still retains a resistance based shield in the epic for a very tough Trapper. (comparatively, cheap soft capped *s/l corr trappers are stuck with a def epic).
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Repulsion Bomb is not really intended as a damage power, it's a control power that happens to do damage. Lightning storm I'll concede is primarily a damage power. You're right they aren't going to change it although personally I think all versions of Time Bomb should be changed.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Tell that to Lightning Storm. And Repulsion Bomb.
I think for the Defender the main attribute is supposed to be the knockback, not the damage. It's Traps, though, it's derived from Devices. It's been this way since CoV launch, it's not going to be changed now. |
time bomb is great, gives me something i can skip
I'm of the opinion that traps shouldn't have made it's way to defenders in it's current state.
Why the hate on Time Bomb? I've never played a traps or devices character before but it seems pretty good in writing.
I was originally Medic Man, but I needed a change and wanted to be able to keep my monogrammed towels.
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Because time bomb requires planning to use properly. Planning is a rare commodity on pug teams. |
Originally Posted by Monster_Mash
Why the hate on Time Bomb? I've never played a traps or devices character before but it seems pretty good in writing.
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I will not rest until we have in-game throwable pies!
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Well, it takes more than planning. It takes both planning and the team to stop for 20-some seconds while you use the thing. It's more productive to simply not stop for 20-some seconds and continue killing things as usual than it is to use Time Bomb.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Wacky
Because time bomb requires planning to use properly. Planning is a rare commodity on pug teams.
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As I recall, the typical argument I've heard ( from Corrs ) is that it's better to simply use Trip Mine which has a much better chance of actually going off when the target is in range. And which can be laid down in multiples to make them stronger than Time Bomb by far. So no, with or without planning Time Bomb isn't useful.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Wacky
Because time bomb requires planning to use properly. Planning is a rare commodity on pug teams.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
Title says it all, mostly I'm interested in:
FFG
Acid Trap
Poison Gas Trap
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)