Why can't we send ourselves money yet???
By
Adam_Alpha,
Posted on: 2009-08-20 24:31 in Suggestions and Ideas
The whole "Your characters don't know each other" or "they should be self sufficient" are just hollow excuses.
Here's the following 2 scenarios featuring Super Steve, Super Tim, and Random Guy. The two supers are on the same account.
SS: Hey Super Tim, how's it going?
ST: Oh, hey Super Steve, could be better actually, I need a whole lot of influence to buy the last for invention recipies I need to optimise my powers.
Scenario 1
SS: Well as it happens, I have some spare Influence. Here, have some!
SS gives ST lots of inf.
ST: Thanks man, I owe you!
Scenario 2
SS: As it so happens I have some spare Influence. Wait here whilst I find sombody to give it to you.
ST: ...um ...ok?
SS: Hey there, Random Guy. I need your assistance with something.
RG: Oh, Hi there Super Steve. Sup?
SS: I need you to give this Influence to Super Tim over there.
SS gives RG lots of Inf.
RG: ...um ...sure ...question. Why couldn't you just give it him yourself?
SS: That, Random Guy, is an excellent question. off you go now!
RG gives ST lots of Inf.
The only real difference between these two scenarios is the middle man. Can we please cut him out, for convenience's sake. ¬.¬
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Congratulations on your mind-reading ability. Must come in handy. More seriously, I believe at one time the devs were really against inf xfers, as could be seen from the extremely low cap. But raising the trade cap to its current value could be interpreted as a change of heart. That was a quick fix. Adding the ability to send items via email isn't. |
Originally Posted by stever
Number one reason: Because the devs still never intend to let us do this.
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To get back to her original suggestion: my own guess is that the devs probably aren't vehemently against being able to email inf. But it's just not a priority. Just like they're not against the ability to invite or promote someone to an SG who is offline, or a thousand other reasonable suggestions that have been made. Even with the new larger staff they have only so many hours in a day, and have to devote them mostly to big features that will help them stay profitable.
One tiny example: a while back I got annoyed at having to constantly type /loc to find out where I was so I could hunt for exploration badges. I suggested to Pohsyb that it'd be great if we could toggle on a constantly-updated location display on the map via a slash command. He replied that he saw how that could be useful but that idea would be verrrrry far down the to-do list. He didn't say "cold day in hell" but that was my take.
Many other MMOs have the ability to email items, so it's not like this is some wild new concept that might dooooom the game. I hope it's added some day and I strongly second P_P's suggestion. (Good Lord, I've been agreeing and defending P_P in several threads lately.
) Although my own personal pet peeve item I want to see revamped is the lame, frustrating, archaic teammate search window. Grrrr. 
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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All characters are self sufficient. It's a simple fact. The devs have bent over backwards to give us the tools to make them financially independant from each other. It's not the devs fault or responsibility that any random player chooses not to use those tools.|
Originally Posted by Imoba Strife
The whole "Your characters don't know each other" or "they should be self sufficient" are just hollow excuses.
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A global bank is at best a minor qol convenience which has never had a high priority with the devs. Would it be nice if they changed their minds? You bet it would. It's one of thousands of ideas we'd like to see added.
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Actually if you think about it RP can easily explain why heros and villains would never share infamy/influence.| I hate RP-style justifications for this stuff. If you want to get all RP about it, then explain how influence or infamy can be traded at all. It's NOT money, it's in-game reputation. Or explain how you can buy something at the auction house that's for sale in another friggin' universe (i.e. a different server). Let's please leave off this line of "reasoning" okay? |
Batman walks into a store and says, "I'm a friend of Superman's. You should give me stuff because he's famous."
Supervillains are even bigger egomaniacs than heroes. They are feared for their own criminal actions, not because they are the second cousin of the woman that married the nephew of Lord Recluse's half brother.
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That was really my point. You can come to all sorts of completely invalid conclusions if you start using RP to justify them. You can already trade inf, send global tells, buy items at the auction house that are for sale in another universe (server), and trade inspirations: none of which should be possible from an RP perspective. Thus it makes no sense to argue against being able to email inf due to RP objections. Even the separation of markets isn't done for RP reasons. Posi cited infamy/influence disparity as his reason for not merging markets, not RP.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Actually if you think about it RP can easily explain why heros and villains would never share infamy/influence.
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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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I never said they weren't self sufficient, I said (albiet a little unclearly) that saying they should be self sufficient is a poor excuse for not allowing same account transfers.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
All characters are self sufficient. It's a simple fact.
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I'm curious to see how they are going to handle the economy when GR goes live. While we will see heroes becoming villains, will it be enough to compensate for the number of villains that head heroside. A lot of players on have villains because they like the AT's, they aren't really fond of the redside content. |
Originally Posted by Sardan
That was really my point. You can come to all sorts of completely invalid conclusions if you start using RP to justify them. You can already trade inf, send global tells, buy items at the auction house that are for sale in another universe (server), and trade inspirations: none of which should be possible from an RP perspective. Thus it makes no sense to argue against being able to email inf due to RP objections. Even the separation of markets isn't done for RP reasons. Posi cited infamy/influence disparity as his reason for not merging markets, not RP.
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Of course that assumes the devs don't have any changes in plan for the economy.
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Sorry for misunderstanding Imoba.
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Originally Posted by Imoba Strife
I never said they weren't self sufficient, I said (albiet a little unclearly) that saying they should be self sufficient is a poor excuse for not allowing same account transfers.
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I don't give a flying **** about any RP considerations, I just want a better way to sort inf around my characters when they need it.
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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On those points our thoughts are in line. I know I have a bunch of red-siders that'll be going blue and very few blue-siders that are going red.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I'm curious to see how they are going to handle the economy when GR goes live. While we will see heroes becoming villains, will it be enough to compensate for the number of villains that head heroside. A lot of players on have villains because they like the AT's, they aren't really fond of the redside content.
Of course that assumes the devs don't have any changes in plan for the economy. |
I would like to see the devs overhaul the economy in some drastic way but I'm pretty sure that's incredibly unlikely. They keep making minor changes by adding new forms of currency, none of which are easily interchanged, which keeps aggravating the problem. I'm really starting to think someone needs to send posi to read www.mises.org...
Robin
--If we can have huge sig images, why can we have only five lines of text?
--...faceplanting like a Defender pulling an AV (Nalrok_AthZim)
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
...I have the patience of a coffee-fueled flea...
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I think GR will require changes. We know that it'll introduce a bunch of new zones that are neither red nor blue. They could decide to stick with the existing currencies but you'll need a way to access auction houses in Praetoria, and that would be awkward unless they merge the markets. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I'm curious to see how they are going to handle the economy when GR goes live. While we will see heroes becoming villains, will it be enough to compensate for the number of villains that head heroside. A lot of players on have villains because they like the AT's, they aren't really fond of the redside content.
Of course that assumes the devs don't have any changes in plan for the economy. |
I think the best option would be to just merge all influence and infamy into a single currency. This would also allow not only a market merger but mixed teams of heroes and villains could finally trade items. I can't stand that I can't give inspirations to teammates of the opposing faction.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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That really is simply ridiculous.
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Originally Posted by Sardan
I can't stand that I can't give inspirations to teammates of the opposing faction.
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--If we can have huge sig images, why can we have only five lines of text?
--...faceplanting like a Defender pulling an AV (Nalrok_AthZim)
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
...I have the patience of a coffee-fueled flea...
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The naysayers can say what they will, but CoH remains the ONLY MMO I have played that does NOT allow someone to easily transfer money and/or items to their own characters. People are not asking for some pie in the sky ground-breaking functionality. They are asking for what is a standard feature of the majority of MMO's.
When CoH had no economy or crafting system I could see it. Those days are over. The Devs added an economy and loot. In for a penny, in for a pound.
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I would love an account storage feature but an email feature would lack the ability (as it is now) for cross server transfers. So I guess one hurdle is would it be a cross server feature or not.|
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
The naysayers can say what they will, but CoH remains the ONLY MMO I have played that does NOT allow someone to easily transfer money and/or items to their own characters. People are not asking for some pie in the sky ground-breaking functionality. They are asking for what is a standard feature of the majority of MMO's.
When CoH had no economy or crafting system I could see it. Those days are over. The Devs added an economy and loot. In for a penny, in for a pound. |
But I believe the devs are steadfastly opposed to us being able to do it so I shall continue to have each of my characters go it alone which isn't too hard in this game.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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And this is the part that utterly mystifies me. Why are they so opposed to it? All they are doing is causing an inconvenience. They are not stopping money sharing between characters on the same account. Just last night I moved funds over to a lowbie Brute I am leveling. It was annoying and a hassel and reduced the amount of time I had to actually play the game.|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
But I believe the devs are steadfastly opposed to us being able to do it so I shall continue to have each of my characters go it alone which isn't too hard in this game.
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I'll say it again: The Devs aren't stopping same account transfers of funds from happening. They are just making it annoying. Obnoxiously so in my opinion, especially in light of the ease with which this can be accomplished in other games, some of which are as old or older than CoH.
PS: Swellguy, sorry if I come across like I'm jumping on you. I'm not, obviously, as you've expressed a desire to have this feature too. It's just that the Devs ridiculous stance on this has me riled, and I've had an annoying week at work.
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Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
And this is the part that utterly mystifies me. Why are they so opposed to it? All they are doing is causing an inconvenience. They are not stopping money sharing between characters on the same account. Just last night I moved funds over to a lowbie Brute I am leveling. It was annoying and a hassel and reduced the amount of time I had to actually play the game.
I'll say it again: The Devs aren't stopping same account transfers of funds from happening. They are just making it annoying. Obnoxiously so in my opinion, especially in light of the ease with which this can be accomplished in other games, some of which are as old or older than CoH. PS: Swellguy, sorry if I come across like I'm jumping on you. I'm not, obviously, as you've expressed a desire to have this feature too. It's just that the Devs ridiculous stance on this has me riled, and I've had an annoying week at work. |
This is my theory on why it is dev opposed but I cannot prove it and no one will convince me I am wrong either*.
The devs have an idea of the game, canon, of how things ought to be. Part of that is no trading between heroes and villains. I expect this is so ingrained that even Going Rogue will not change that. *If I turn out to be wrong I will happily eat crow though I hope someone will provide fries and ketchup to go with it.
Another part of that is no twinking.
The root concept of these positions really goes to a particular opinion on how to roleplay our characters. I will always believe the markets between heroes and villains were not merged due to that consideration not the inf discrepancy. I'm weary of the debates on it but my characters got rich in the markets so my villains would have fared just as well as my heroes.
I do not mean to say this roleplaying concept is wrong in any way. But it is unassailable because you cannot argue with it. It is a win by fiat. As a comparable example, why can Kheldians not access the teleport and flight pools? While it may have once been due to some internal game constraints surely that could have been resolved by now or alternative powers could have been made for Khelds to access the powers they cannot just as Peacebringers have "hover" and "fly" why not human form teleport or an air superiority power?
I guess I would say if you have a PnP game background it is just something you have to accept and try to politely sway the GM about but ultimately we are stuck with the powers that be and what they decide. It's their world and we are just playing in it.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Hehe, yes, it is their world. But that doesn't stop me from making loud noises about the things I disagree with.
I'm just hoping that we can eventually sway them.
I agree but I have found only two things seem to sway them:
1. loud wailing (costume recipes)
2. money (character slots)
So how much are we willing to pay to get an account wide storage or email stuff function? (Wailing hasn't worked so I give up on that one.)
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
The answer to that one is easy for me: $14.99 per month. Not one cent more.
I just don't consider the ability to transfer items and money to my own characters to be an unreasonable request, and certainly not something deserving of a special in-game item pack or other micro-transaction to enable it.
If that is really the point we are at, then it's a lost cause. But I'd like to think there's still hope for the "wailing" approach.
/em clears throat to start wailing again
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Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
The answer to that one is easy for me: $14.99 per month. Not one cent more.
I just don't consider the ability to transfer items and money to my own characters to be an unreasonable request, and certainly not something deserving of a special in-game item pack or other micro-transaction to enable it. If that is really the point we are at, then it's a lost cause. But I'd like to think there's still hope for the "wailing" approach. /em clears throat to start wailing again |
Here's a little tip that took me a few years to figure out here .... your $14.99 a month doesn't matter. The dev's have their bias and they tend not to listen much. A little, but not enough.
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As you say, it's guesswork right now because Posi hasn't said anything one way or the other. But I stick with my "they're not opposed to it, they just haven't gotten around to it" theory. Actually I should expand on that: I think at one time Jack Emmert was probably firmly opposed to it. But he also opposed things like powerset proliferation. Once Posi took the reigns the official position changed. Similarly I think the dev view on twinking was once firmly anti, but once they relented and made it so you can bestow hundreds of millions of inf on a lowbie, I take that to mean that they rethought it.|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
This is my theory on why it is dev opposed but I cannot prove it and no one will convince me I am wrong either*.
The devs have an idea of the game, canon, of how things ought to be. Part of that is no trading between heroes and villains. I expect this is so ingrained that even Going Rogue will not change that. *If I turn out to be wrong I will happily eat crow though I hope someone will provide fries and ketchup to go with it. |
As has been mentioned countless times, this isn't a groundbreaking feature. Even NCSoft's new flagship MMO Aion has email xfer of goods and global account storage, so it's not like you can point to a corporate position that's against it either.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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I didn't mean to imply that my $14.99 made a huge deal to the Devs, I just used it as my way of stating this would not be something I would expect to pay an extra fee for.
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Originally Posted by Folonius
Here's a little tip that took me a few years to figure out here .... your $14.99 a month doesn't matter. The dev's have their bias and they tend not to listen much. A little, but not enough.
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The implementation of tickets would seem to indicate that they can give us access to rewards on an account level but do not wish to apply it on a larger scale than is absolutely necessary.
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Originally Posted by Sardan
As you say, it's guesswork right now because Posi hasn't said anything one way or the other. But I stick with my "they're not opposed to it, they just haven't gotten around to it" theory.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Reading comprehension Adam. You should try it sometime.
Explaining what the devs have told us about why we don't have a global bank does not mean we think the suggestion is bad. It also doesn't mean that the devs may not change their minds at some point and decide to put this feature in the game. As I said before the only thing I know the devs said we'd never see is the ability to respec out of our powersets. (they also said we were lucky they let us pull 10 enh during a respec) |
Who pissed in your cheerios, Forbin? I pointed out MY point of view just like you did. And for the record: I was not calling YOU out or insulting YOUR ability to read... But if you could read, then you may not have taken my post so personally.
So the Reading comprehension thing... maybe you should try it out bud.
I don't come here to put others down like some folks.
Explaining what the devs have told us about why we don't have a global bank does not mean we think the suggestion is bad. It also doesn't mean that the devs may not change their minds at some point and decide to put this feature in the game.
As I said before the only thing I know the devs said we'd never see is the ability to respec out of our powersets. (they also said we were lucky they let us pull 10 enh during a respec)