Warshade blasting as a human vs. a nova

Post-Kheldian retooling, I've been wondering if I could avoid using Nova form entirely.

Mind you, I like the squiddy thingy of doom, but it takes too damn long to flip into it sometimes. Dwarf Mire -> Human -> Mire -> Nova results in the dwarf mire being gone by the time I'm done flipping, and exposes me to a lot of incoming hostility.

I'm wondering if Dwarf Mire -> Human -> Mire -> Blasting might be a tad more efficient. What does Nova have that the Post-I13 humans don't? (Besides flight of course).

I totally forgot to actually check the numbers...

I've found that numbers on paper and actual battle-numbers, depending on the type of enemy you fight and what powers they have are quite different. I've found when soloing 8-man mobs that my human form is waaay more likely to survive and continue to put out numbers than my nova form is, therefore making the human form numbers higher in the long run, because the nova form winds up dying after a very short period of time. That, and the fact that there are only 4 attacks compared to the 6 or 7 I have in human form....ehhh... On top of that, there's no form switch time in human form--you just keep going with no stop... Numbers on paper aside... It's a no-brainer to me. I'd rather stay alive and continue to put out numbers. Don't get me wrong... I love nova form.... But, only in a situation where I have full and complete team support... If there's a controller holding the whole mob, yeah, nova is going to be the obvious choice... But, if I'm by myself taking on an 8-man mob with no help/no support? The form that's the most survivable AND puts out a heck of a lot of damage? Human form all the way. Dwarf may be more survivable, but it doesn't compare to my human form damage. Therefore, human form wins the "balanced" (survivability/damage output) equasion.

That said, I can't WAIT until i16 is released and I can scale mobs, so I can actually show videos of both in action, so you can see what I'm talking about.

"The One"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

You know... I also keep forgetting I've got Chance for +Damage IO's slotted in my Nova attacks, and I also switch forms like a raving lunatic, laughing maniacally after mobs who chase me in my Nova form meet the business end of my claws in Dwarf form. For a TriFormShade™ no Form is the end-all be-all, you have to combine form-attacks to be as effective as you can be.

You can't expect to play in Dark Nova like you'd play a Human-only WS.

Exactly... That's the point I was trying to make... I'd agree that numbers-wise, the nova form would be higher than human, but trying to compare the two in battle by themselves is sort of a joke... Nova is best when combined with the powers from the other forms as well...

"The One"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

If you factor in an "Eclipsed" Warshade...then I'll take Nova blasting over human every single time. You don't really lose any of the survivability and spawns will drop much more quickly.

I'd almost say I'd take "Dwarf Blasting" over human blasting just by being able to repeat Dwarf Mire over and over and over again when your WS is slotted correctly.

Yea you could easily avoid using nova. I sometimes to when I feel the mobs are going down so fast I don't need it anyways. But, a WS seems to have it easier using nova form than a PB because of all the stuns. So when I'm playing solo, if I get the whole mob stunned then I go nova and put out some sick AOE damage.

As a side note: When I want to double mire I do Human Mire -> Dwarf -> Dwarf Mire -> Nova -> AOEs

this gives you enough time to get off both AOEs and another attack. I'm not sure if this is the way you do it or not. Your way sounded different and I was wondering why. If it's to take the alpha then I could understand, although inky aspect and gravitic emenation usually make sure that The mob isn't gonna hit me while I'm in nova and then most of them are wiped afterwards so I can do a Stygian Circle after I drop nova to recover the health from the alpha.

Dwarf Mire -> Human -> Human Mire -> Nova -> Nova Detonation takes 0.73+0+2.37+2.03+2.5 sec, since the change to human form takes no time. (Although timing it so you drop out of human form without queueing could add about a second to that)

Human Mire -> Dwarf -> Dwarf Mire -> Nova -> Nova Detonation takes 2.37+2.03+0.73+2.03+2.5 sec.

So that's 7.63 seconds total for the first, and 9.66 for the second. However, for the first only 6.9 seconds pass from the Dwarf Mire, while with the second only 4.53 seconds pass. Both are well within the 10 second duration of Dwarf Mire, but at best you will be able to fire Emanation and then maybe one or two blasts more for the second chain.

Likely the OP used the Dwarf->Human->Nova order because the entire chain was shorter, allowing him to take less damage before the Detonation went off. However, the Human->Dwarf->Nova order probably is better because less of the duration of the Dwarf Mire is wasted. Personally, though, if I go Human->Dwarf I'm going to stay Dwarf unless I see an opportunity to switch forms.

It is true, though, that just after a Dwarf Mire in Dwarf form, you have enough time to go Nova, drop a Detonation, and then return to Dwarf form to continue attacking and even renew your Mire.

Sorry if this is a mini-rant.

The Warshade (Kheldian) forums are the only place where people argue that the numbers aren't important.

My Warshade has been my main character for over a year but I have recently been playing a scrapper and when you hit the scrapper boards there are loads of people willing to help out with attack chains and reaching defence caps etc in order to give people the best possible advice, while still understanding that fun and playstyle come into it.

Yet on these boards I see people talking more about fun, which although an incredibly valid point (Who wants a character they don't enjoy playing?) it doesn't make the numbers any less important and if someone asks 'how can I cause the most damage' they really shouldn't be given a wide range of opinions, they should be told facts like 'get 57.4% global recharge and 6 slot the nova attacks as follows for the best damage'.

I made that 57.4% global recharge figure up, but on my Warshade I have exactly perma-hasten and can easily string together a nova attack chain with just the 4 powers (Or just the two ST powers) and although in human form there is Gravity Well which causes a shed load of damage even at my level of recharge it isn't up enough to count as part of a useful attack chain, and the rest of the human attacks are frankly rubbish.

To say to anyone that Nova isn't the most efficient method of dealing large amounts of damage is wrong, especially when AoE is king in this game.

In a large team with enough mobs Dwarf is probably the 2nd most effective damage form, Black Dwarf Mire can be made to permanently double stack, which is a ~200 damage AoE every 5 seconds, add to that the attack chain can be made with just the two attacks, one of which is actually very good and I think they are at least a match for the ST damage of Nova.

Human can only match that damage for a few seconds at a time, even with perma-Sunless Mire.

Yes causing that damage in human might be quite good fun, but it just isn't as effective, even factoring in the ~5 seconds out of every 90 that you need to switch to human for Eclipse when blasting in Nova.

I think at some point I will try and run the numbers because I am getting better at that with help from the scrapper section, but I am 100% sure they will prove me right, even discounting that you can have ~25 seconds in Nova with mire every time you drop to eclipse up again.

Of course all this is with a build that has enough recharge to string together attack chains in Nova/Dwarf, I actually can't remember if they have full chains with normal IO slotting or not because it has been so long (But I would assume they do, or very close to). If they don't then human form 'might' be better, but only by virtue of having enough attacks to form a full chain.

The final disclaimer on this is that I know damage isn't necessarily the only priority on a Warshade, but it is always good to be able to answer with facts when people ask questions. This section of the forum is very heavy on opinion, and very low on hard facts.

The lack of facts is also one reason people still think Kheldians are weak, and as a community I wish we could pull out some hard facts to prove otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

*High fives Princess Darkstar*

I might not always agree with some of your stuff but this is as spot on of a "rant" as I have ever seen on these forums.

We are NOT gimp because we lack power we are gimp because the Kheldians have become the "concept character build" due to not having hard fast and heavy numbers proving what is and is not the most efficient builds/slotting/whatever to make the Kheldian AT the scary ***** contender it should be.

Tsk tsk tsk... DPS Snobs!

You say that like it's a bad thing. :P

Honestly though without getting into my usual heavy longwinded rants.

If all the other AT sections handled builds and slotting the same way the Kheldian section is, we would be playing alot different game, most of the strong power builds would never have been found and things like the hammi raids and the hard Tf's and challenge missions would still be uncompletable.

It in my mind is why the Kheldians are lagging behind the other AT's in popularity and desirablity on teams.

I couldn't agree more.

I don't post much, but lurk constantly and my WS is my "main" and favorite character to play. I've tried a number of different IO'd builds, looking at numbers until my eyes bleed and posted a few times on these forums. The end result? More people are more interested in discussing the "funniest things ever said to a kheldian" or "how do I make the best void hunter costume" than talking about specifics about builds or how to min/max a kheld. I'm not saying this type of discussion never happens but generally speaking this forums tends to be the happy land of "kheldians are perfect" just the way they are. (Not trying to insult anyone, just making an observation)

Honestly Kheldians are about perfect, mainly the Warshades, Peacers could use a small buff/tweak.

Were (Warshades) like sharks we have all the tools to be a nearly perfect predator so long as we keep moving, attacking, shifting and healing/buffing.

The problem is in my opinion people make a Kheld because it's different, it's cute, and their content to treat them as the keitch/concept characters of the AT's and not the potential predator they were designed to be.

I find the whole "It doesnt matter how you build your Kheldian because it's not like their ever gonna be REALLY good anyways." mentality so frustrating that it actually sends me into board rants.

I am usually the first person into every group of mobs on an ITF and our support will generaly ignore me to keep the blasters healed and buffed because they know I dont need to be helped. I am "The Squid" and they would rather I bring squiddy than my kinetic or my scrapper or my blaster because they know the squid is more usefull.

Since the game is still balanced around SO's, I personally consider min/maxing things above and beyond an SO build, luxury. So when someone asks me how to min/max a build, I usually won't even bother with a reply unless the person demonstrates they understand how to create a useful SO build, then we have something to start a discussion from.

I also dislike min/maxing my characters because it's very easy to get into those shiny purple sets with Mids and then realize how long it's going to take me to gather the resources to actually accomplish the goal, so I just fall back on having fun with my character of choice at the time and playing the game.

It's not that I won't or don't min/max, I simply do not obssess about it like some others do, and that's why I emphasize gameplay skills over building-skills such as min/maxing, they're simply not that fun for me and it's a personal preference.