Hardest one life to live combination


Ahmon

 

Posted

Recently, I've been playing a character that I've role played as a normal human in a world full of super powered beings. Any defeat I suffer I've taken to mean as a character death. Essentially, I'm mimicking the hardcore mode in games like Diablo, where if your character dies, that's it.

I realize that you can play solo and really carefully and you won't die (though, it may take you hundreds of hours to make it to 50); however, I reasoned that as a registered super hero, my characters will seek to team up, so I teamed most of my way until I died.

My latest experiment was a Trick Arrow/Archery Defender which made it one bar away from level 22 before suffering her first defeat. A cargo boat full of +3 Council was just too much to handle. Fairly proud of that accomplishment since she teamed all the way up (no AE) and stayed alive on some pretty sketchy PUGs.

I'm thinking of doing this again, and wanted to solicit your opinion as to what would be the hardest "hardcore" combination you can think of, assuming that you're teaming your way to 50.

My initial thoughts are:

* Sonic/Radiation Blast Defender (no self heal, low damage)
* Fire/Fire Blaster (lots of damage, no mitigation, lots of unwanted aggro)
* Peacebringer (technically wouldn't be a "normal" human, but same rules apply; would have to watch it around quantums)

Generally, I don't think most tankers, scrappers, stalkers, MMs or brutes fit my criteria. Most combinations of them, once they get mez protection, shields or self heals are pretty hard to take down. I want something that will make me fear for my life every time I join a team.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fury_Flechette View Post
Recently, I've been playing a character that I've role played as a normal human in a world full of super powered beings. Any defeat I suffer I've taken to mean as a character death. Essentially, I'm mimicking the hardcore mode in games like Diablo, where if your character dies, that's it.

I realize that you can play solo and really carefully and you won't die (though, it may take you hundreds of hours to make it to 50); however, I reasoned that as a registered super hero, my characters will seek to team up, so I teamed most of my way until I died.

My latest experiment was a Trick Arrow/Archery Defender which made it one bar away from level 22 before suffering her first defeat. A cargo boat full of +3 Council was just too much to handle. Fairly proud of that accomplishment since she teamed all the way up (no AE) and stayed alive on some pretty sketchy PUGs.

I'm thinking of doing this again, and wanted to solicit your opinion as to what would be the hardest "hardcore" combination you can think of, assuming that you're teaming your way to 50.

My initial thoughts are:

* Sonic/Radiation Blast Defender (no self heal, low damage)
* Fire/Fire Blaster (lots of damage, no mitigation, lots of unwanted aggro)
* Peacebringer (technically wouldn't be a "normal" human, but same rules apply; would have to watch it around quantums)

Generally, I don't think most tankers, scrappers, stalkers, MMs or brutes fit my criteria. Most combinations of them, once they get mez protection, shields or self heals are pretty hard to take down. I want something that will make me fear for my life every time I join a team.

You should look at joining Smurphy's Iron Eagles. They do the same thing.


 

Posted

I will say that as a sonic/ defender, the biggest thing will be how you've no need or even reason to join in on the fight. It makes sense for a proper "one death only" character, since you shield everyone, turn on the donut, then go sit within max range of dispersion. If you want a real challenge, play an empath that heals with Absorb Pain as opposed to Heal Other or just flat out refuses the latter (Aura + AP + Buffs = skirting death at every turn). If you manage to reach your auras and AB, you stand a substantially larger chance at not dying.

Melee wise, I can actually tell you a fire/shield scrapper/brute would be fairly dangerous to level, as they tend to get no real mitigation until 22 (True Grit notwithstanding) and survive by simply pumping out as much aggro as they can possibly get, which gets them massive amounts of aggro they usually can't handle. Defense in general suffers extensively until SOs, so you may suffer some early game casualties because of it. Even at end game, an ITF will make a tombstone for any defense based melee that aren't soft capped from buffs/sets.

If you -really- want to make a near impossible to get to 50 character without dying, I'd suggest a petless mastermind primary matched with Force Field secondary. You'll contribute a good amount from your shields (albeit, nothing like a defender) and can make use of your secondary. If you go thugs, you get dual pistols (so you can act like a proper thug) and can even get gangs of war. You also have zero defenses and the lowest HP in the game. Definitely, a great challenge.


 

Posted

I think Kinetics would probably be pretty hard for a death = delete character. It's only available on squishy ATs, and mostly requires you to be in melee. The heal is small compensation.

For anyone considering death = delete and doesn't want a super hard core challenge, Mind/FF controller is extremely safe


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

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Originally Posted by Kenteko View Post
Melee wise, I can actually tell you a fire/shield scrapper/brute would be fairly dangerous to level
I like your suggestions but disagree with that one. I leveled a fire/shield scrapper to 50 a while ago and remember very few deaths on her. Shield isn't that great until IO'ed but fire melee makes up for it by pumping out a lot of damage. It is a dangerous build, but not as dangerous as the others you suggested.


 

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I totally agree with your choice of Sonic/Rad Defender.

You have very little in the way of "get out of my face" emergency powers - 25% knockback chance in Electron Haze, and maybe Sonic Cage, if you take it.

If your health starts falling on this character, there's pretty much nothing you can do about it except cross your fingers and fight, or run.

You could always buy the Ethereal Shift temporary power and totally defeat the point of this exercise..


 

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Sounds like a good albeit masochistic idea to do with pistols.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fury_Flechette View Post
I like your suggestions but disagree with that one. I leveled a fire/shield scrapper to 50 a while ago and remember very few deaths on her. Shield isn't that great until IO'ed but fire melee makes up for it by pumping out a lot of damage. It is a dangerous build, but not as dangerous as the others you suggested.
Yea, in all fairness it comes down to the groups you get and your general luck. Joining a group with zero support when you're a somewhat average mitigation wise character and a glass cannon equivalent can be rough. SR and Elec are other options because neither has a heal and the former doesn't kick off until late to early 30s while the latter can be...spotty.

I'm not trying to say that melee would suit your goals fine, but if you plan on doing quite a bit of teaming or the like, support tends to have a higher lifespan than melee (especially early on) while it changes substantially later on when everything either gets an aoe or the melee in question have protection.


 

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Assault Rifle/Electric Blapper would seem quite difficult to keep alive.


 

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Petless thug/traps or ninja/traps MM must be a very painful experience. Or you could just go ahead and roll a toggle man if you are really suicidal. toggle man = spine/dark scrapper with only one click power and the rest being toggels.


 

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Originally Posted by Fleeting_Whisper View Post
I think Kinetics would probably be pretty hard for a death = delete character. It's only available on squishy ATs, and mostly requires you to be in melee. The heal is small compensation.
Hmm...that's interesting, though if you wanted to min/max it, you'd pair kinetics with electric and build a sapper. You'd have to take something like energy blast, because I think kin/electric, once you got to short circuit, you'd be pretty survivable.

It's definitely worth thinking about.


 

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Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Archery / Fire Blaster

Elec / Fire Blaster (although Tesla Cage comes at 18, it should be tough getting that high)
I think archery/fire would be easier than the TA/A Defender, mostly because you have damage and ranged stun. Sort of the same for the electric/fre.

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Cold / Archery Defender
Now that's intriguing...that build may play similarly to the TA/A that made it to 21.


 

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Originally Posted by Ahmon View Post
Assault Rifle/Electric Blapper would seem quite difficult to keep alive.
I'm pretty good with assault rifle. I can get a lot mileage out of the knockback from slug, buckshot and M30.


 

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Originally Posted by Fury_Flechette View Post
Hmm...that's interesting, though if you wanted to min/max it, you'd pair kinetics with electric and build a sapper. You'd have to take something like energy blast, because I think kin/electric, once you got to short circuit, you'd be pretty survivable.

It's definitely worth thinking about.
Think again. I've played a Kin/Elec to 50, and you tend to pull a lot of aggro and soak a lot of hurt before you manage to sap anything to a notable degree. It is indeed one of the weakest Defender builds in terms of mitigation.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

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I'm with Lemur here.

My Kin/Elec lived on a knife's edge from one Transfusion to the next. You could sap a single target like a boss using Transference and Short Circuit if you got the drop on them, but you'd be waiting for the second Short Circuit to be up before sapping his buddies. And until then all it took was a single mez to ruin your day.

It was fun, definitely, but it wasnt safe.

On top of that, your best damage mitigation kicks in at 26 (Transference) and 28 (Tesla Cage). You'd be lucky to get there without dying in this "one life" challenge.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Cold / Archery Defender
Hrm, from experience with my Cold/Arc Defender, they are pretty safe if you use the tools at your disposal.

From low-level, you can empower your team-mates -significantly- with shields and Frostwork, and your only debuffs at that time are Infrigidate and Snow Storm. With the latter being an AoE slow, you can fire it while jumping away from the mob at it's max range, or to behind cover, and mitigate damage simply by not being firable upon while the better-suited of the team make with the punchies.

Arctic Fog at 12 also provides you with defense and stealth, and Leadership: Maneuvers comes recommended for providing defense to yourself as well as stacking even more with the defense you provide to the team. Also a place to slot Steadfast: Res/Def, as the start of alleviating your own lack of defense compared to your cohorts.

Once you have Sleet at 26, can also use it in a safer fashion by making use of the ability to apply Snow Storm while jumping out of line-of-sight, then hitting Sleet from there. This is assuming, however, that no-one on the team's generating aggro that readily. If they are, can afford to be more direct.

At 30, can start building up ranged defense via cheap IO sets. 6 Red Fortunes in Ice and Glacial Shields, along with Maneuvers, comes recommended, and Thunderstrike in Blazing Arrow, getting you +11.25% ranged defense. Can also have Blessing of the Zephyr in your travel power and combat-movement power (If went the CJ+SJ or Hover+Fly) route, leading to either +3.13% or +6.26% more depending on which route you went, on top of CJ or Hover's base +2.5% defense if taken. In any case, through a combination of these can have respectable defense to complement the debuffs allowing you to keep threats at bay.

This does of course beg the question of whether you'd be unwilling to go into IO slotting for one-shot survival characters because of their status as such, or even more willing to because of it. In any case, I don't think any of those IOs are especially expensive if you don't use the KB IO of the Zephyr. Red Fortunes I know to be dirt-cheap, though.

Cold/ is a set that people either love or hate to play, though. It might be apparent I fall in the former. Chief thing is it'll keep you busy, you've got bubble-buffs to keep up, PBAoE blanket-buff(s), AoE debuffs and single-target debuffs to dispense, a long-recharge fulcrum-like -Res/+End/+Recovery power and a moderate-recharge buff in Frostwork. And, post-38 with Cold/Arc, the potential for some real nice AoE damage considering you have the -Res to support it. And, once again, it's firable from behind cover.


 

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Energy/Fire Blasting was a tough combo, but it was my first toon and I didn't know how to really play/slot or do anything right in the game.


"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill

"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."

-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp

 

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Electric/Fire Blaster. Lots of PBAoE 2 of which animate in 3 seconds, giving you plenty of time to faceplant at the worst possible moment.


 

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Doesn't exist yet.

Electric/Fire tank.

No heal, nothing but resistance, and zero mitigation from your secondary. On top of that, you attract more hate than anything else in the game just by existing. And you HAVE to enter melee range, you have no choice in the matter.

I suppose you could survive by street hunting greens, but that would take forever. On a bad PuG your life expectancy would be measured in seconds.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
On a bad PuG your life expectancy would be measured in seconds.
After, of course, the 10-minute wait while people stood around not replying to chat or tells and one guy zoned through Atlas, KR, Steel Canyon, Boomtown, Steel Canyon again, Oroborous, Peregrine Island, and Talos before finally asking "where is train mish?"


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

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Originally Posted by Fury_Flechette View Post
I think archery/fire would be easier than the TA/A Defender, mostly because you have damage and ranged stun. Sort of the same for the electric/fre.
Arch / Fire - Damage yes. Especially, if you use the secondary. Jumping into melee to do that can be hazardous. You could play a ranger and under utilize /Fire, but that would seem to defeat the purpose of looking for a challenging build (I assume you want a build that even built well might be difficult to keep upright, not a MAN type build). Ranged stun doesn't come until level 26. That is past the level of your TA/A, but maybe you normally make it higher than that in these trials.

Elec/Fire, built to maximize its potential, would also spend a lot of time in melee range of dangerous foes. Its control comes at level 18 though.

Sure, solo those builds might be easy to keep alive. If you plan on teaming, as I implied from your original post, and attempting to use the obscene damage of FSC and FS, it should be more difficult.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

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Originally Posted by Fleeting_Whisper View Post
I think Kinetics would probably be pretty hard for a death = delete character. It's only available on squishy ATs, and mostly requires you to be in melee. The heal is small compensation.

For anyone considering death = delete and doesn't want a super hard core challenge, Mind/FF controller is extremely safe
I don't think Kin would be that bad depending on the other powerset. Kin/sonic would stay more at range compared to Kin/rad.

Anything that has range, damage, and control will be very safe as a hardcore character. My Grav/rad was so easy in hardcore mode until it got punked by a Rikti drop shipped in the initial seconds after I logged in. Cold/ice was similar, but the mob got close enough and the melee attacks hurt like hell. If I had Sleet, I think I could have survived that fight. Tanks are hell to do hardcore early, but become really good later on.

P.S. And yes, I've done Iron Eagle teams, but my work schedule for some time has been hell to do it consistently.


 

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Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
I was going with the Fire/Fire blaster until someone mentioned Elec/Fire blaster.

I think the Elec/Fire has it. Not only do you have three seconds of animation in stabbing range, but then you do nice slow damage over time so they have plenty of time to remember that they hate you.
Elec has the single-target hold though, which is extremely useful mitigation while soloing.

I've got a Sonic/Rad Defender...and...yeah, can't think of a better choice than that. So many powers that are team-dependent.