This idea is brought up over and over again and shot down due to various reasons. below is some good reading for you that will give you explinations as to why vehicles won't work and also some quick tips on searching.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Disclaimer
Yes. This is a cut and paste reply that I keep handy, as well as a quick bit of instruction on how to search. Neither are meant to cause fights or to be insulting. The search instructions are in, not just because forum rules say flat out to search, but to help you and anyone else reading this use the search tool effectively. The body of the cut and paste reply is the way it is because we've seen these arguments numerous times before. They're a summary of the salient points that come up each time. They are not here to insult you, make you feel stupid or otherwise "bring you down a peg." Instead, they are meant as instruction and information. Please read through the points and the explanation behind them to see the issues that are commonly brought up in response. They may not always match your suggestion 100% - in fact, you may have explained around one or two of them - but they're there for consideration and refinement of your idea. Yes, I do look forward to the time, with some of these suggestions, that someone not only addresses all the points, but does so exceptionally well. It'll probably be added to the end of the cut/paste reply, with credit. For now, though, read and consider the points. They really are just there to help you, and move discussion along to help ideas evolve. If you're going to see this and say an "evil forum vet is just shooting down your idea," or "You think you're the last word because of your post count," you're wrong. Heck, if you say the second, you've just worried more about my post count than I have in the last four plus years. Tongue-in-cheek comments in here are meant as humor, not put downs. Searching Effectively 1. Click on "Search" up at the top of the forum. 2. On the left, under "Forum(s) to search," select "Suggestions and ideas." 3. On the right, Keyword Search Terms. This is probably where your problem was if you did search. Try the following, exactly as typed: +vehicle -"re: " This will search for anything with the string "vehicle" in the title.The -re: portion of it removes replies, so you'll see the root of every thread that comes up, letting you see just how many threads there are on this. (The last helps for other subjects, as well.) Be sure to put the space between the colon and last quote. 4. Click the "In subject" radio button. This is a search, not a cute blonde in a bikini. Here, you want to ignore the body. 5. Leave Username Search blank. 6. Date range, Newer Than, change the 1 to a 3, and the time to Months. 7. Result format doesn't matter. Click on "Submit." The subject at hand: Vehicles. Vehicles as travel powers. This gets brought up a lot. Short answer, don't expect it. Long answer: There are a lot of problems with the idea. 1. Movement. Forward and back,even turning - ok. But you can do things that a vehicle can't - such as strafe (direct side to side or angular movement.) It doesn't work with a vehicle. There are also issues such as drift and "realistic" handling. We can go side to side, as mentioned, and make immediate right angle turns. Cars... not so much. 2. Movement, part 2. Go stand in the road. No, not you personally. Take your character out and stand in the road, if you're heroside. Or even in the path of civilians. What happens? You get pushed. While not as big an issue with a motorcycle, perhaps, a car would have issues. What happens if two cars meet head on - yours and an NPC, or yours and another player's? Do you just pass through each other? Would you be satisfied with that very odd result? Or would you get stuck? How about those NPCs, can they walk and push your car, or are they walking through it? Neither answer is very satisfying, and intelligent, dynamic pathing is too computationally expensive. 3. Terrain. Not every place has roads, or even makes sense for "off roading." Go look at Founder's Falls. Go look at Crey's Folley. Or Eden. Try to get to the north islands in Talos. What, do you have a kubelwagen? Look at the Pit in Sharkshead. Try to use your travel power (car) to get up to some of the doorways in high caves. Cars and motorcycles would be more like Superspeed - horizontal movement, period. And look - I'll be blunt - flat out *stupid* tied with, say, Combat Jumping or Superjump. 4. Combat. You get ambushed on the way. How do you fight? Just have your powers blast out of the rolled up windows? How do you buff or debuff? EVERY power would need a new animation. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Then you want people with motorcycles instead of cars. Redo ALL the animations AGAIN. And they still wouldn't make sense - how do you use Footstomp in a car? Or Stalagmites? 5. Customizing. Yeah, it would come up. Not everyone would want a sports car, or a mid-70s Buick boat, or an exotic, or a minivan, or whatever else. 6. Making "sense." This was touched on in terrain - how do you get across water? How about the Shadow Shard? And if you want downright ridiculous looking, go do the heroside 25-34 Respec. Look at the Sky Skiffs inside of rooms or the reactor room. It makes no sense and looks *ridiculous.* Something that, yes, the devs try to avoid. That's just a quick overview of why vehicles as generally envisioned aren't a spectacular idea for a travel power. Further discussion This I think merits a bit of extra commentary, honestly. "Vehicles" covers a lot of different ground for different people. Some only consider cars/jets/motorcycles vehicles. Others add jetpacks, wings and the like. Much of the above considers cars and similar sized vehicles, with nods to motorcycle type vehicles. Jetpacks and such, I don't see happening as travel powers. As costume options for Flight? Or as invented pieces that interact with Fly, similar to wings? Absolutely - but they don't need to be a separate travel power for that. I'm all for more jetpack and wing (or combination) designs. Besides, there are so many "temp" jetpacks, I don't see introducing yet another one as really being feasable - just my opinion. But vehicles - cars, specifically - as a travel power, have issues. One way to have them "somewhat" work. For all that, I know some people *would* still like to pull up in front of a mission. So how do we do it? A temporary power, based on the same tech from the Mac/Valkyrie pack Mission Teleporter. The temporary power would: (a) be an invention - dropping from enemies. (A reward, because you saved... well, we'll get to that,) (b) be a single use each time - you can only hold one at a time, not one of each, one total. (c) use rarely used salvage, because... it's rarely used, and cheap. No Luck Charms here. (d) come in multiple varieties. How does this get around the various issues? Terrain - It doesn't pass terrain. It just arrives. It follows the same 'rules' as the mission teleporter - it's not indoors, doesn't go to contacts, etc. Just mission doors. Customizing - It's not "your" vehicle. It's a temp power. You've called a cab, limo, or other transport. Power animation - since you're skipping the space in between, no powers can be used 'til you arrive anyway. The varieties? - Limo: Stereotypical slightly stretched black limo. - Checker cab: The classic yellow cab. |
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
In response to broken prey...some of the points u make are interesting and have merit but some are also mute. Implementation of certain types of vehicles into the game is VERY possible to do and would work fine. A perfect example is World of warcraft. One of the "mounts" you get is an actual motorcycle and it works just fine in game, so obviously such a thing is possible to implement and CAN work. As for the new battle textures and such you said would have to be implemented, thats not really an issue either since the "vehicles" would be strictly for transportation purposes and character ambience. You wouldnt be able to fight while using them nor would u be able to use them in an indoor mission. They would simply be meant for travel, and something fun for people to have. As i said in my previous post, maybe not make it a "travel power" per say. maybe make it an invention type thing. You make one and you can pop it out if you want and ride or fly it around to get places, its not intended to fight on or in nor to use in missions. just for travel and fun. Just a little something extra to add ambience to your character. It can be done and its been done.
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Originally Posted by jd0113
In response to broken prey...some of the points u make are interesting and have merit but some are also mute. Implementation of certain types of vehicles into the game is VERY possible to do and would work fine. A perfect example is World of warcraft. One of the "mounts" you get is an actual motorcycle and it works just fine in game, so obviously such a thing is possible to implement and CAN work. As for the new battle textures and such you said would have to be implemented, thats not really an issue either since the "vehicles" would be strictly for transportation purposes and character ambience. You wouldnt be able to fight while using them nor would u be able to use them in an indoor mission. They would simply be meant for travel, and something fun for people to have. As i said in my previous post, maybe not make it a "travel power" per say. maybe make it an invention type thing. You make one and you can pop it out if you want and ride or fly it around to get places, its not intended to fight on or in nor to use in missions. just for travel and fun. Just a little something extra to add ambience to your character. It can be done and its been done.
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That's your counter argument? Another game does it. Sorry that isn't going to gut it.
/unsigned
yep thats my counter argument. If you want to call it that. its short, factual, to the point and the truth. no other "argument" is needed. besides im not here to argue ideas or suggestions. im here for this particular forums purpose, which is to post ideas and suggestions for the game and thats what i did. Nuff said.
And your suggestion was shot down. That's how it works around here.
I made the same suggestion a long time ago, and it was shot down for the same reasons. People are kinda edgy around here.
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Sorry, but you didn't provide any facts to counter anything that was presented in Memphis Bill's cut and paste.|
Originally Posted by jd0113
yep thats my counter argument. If you want to call it that. its short, factual, to the point and the truth. no other "argument" is needed. besides im not here to argue ideas or suggestions. im here for this particular forums purpose, which is to post ideas and suggestions for the game and thats what i did. Nuff said.
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And yes you are here to argue suggestions and ideas, or didn't you notice the title of this section of the forum?
Suggestions and Ideas Have an idea or suggestion? Talk about them here!
If you can't handle people giving you feedback then you should refrain from posting. Not everyone is going to blow sunshine up your backside and tell you how wonderful you are. People will disagree with you. You just have to accept that.
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Untill a Dev comes in and says it isn't going to happen the idea hasn't been shot down for the simple reason that players don't actually get a say in what is developed, no matter how elegant there arguement might be.|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
And your suggestion was shot down. That's how it works around here.
I made the same suggestion a long time ago, and it was shot down for the same reasons. People are kinda edgy around here. |
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Sorry, but you didn't provide any facts to counter anything that was presented in Memphis Bill's cut and paste.
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Points 1, 2, 3 and 6 are all technicly one point which would require the devs to code a new system that governs vehicle movement. AE has shown us that they aren't adverse to new systems if the effort is warrented, and only the devs can tell us if it is.
With power customization coming, theres no reason to think point 5 would be anything greater the just creating the art assets.
For point 4, the devs would just have to decide if they wanted full power use, limited power use or no power use, and could use either kheld powers or Only Effecting Self as a basis to get which ever result they choose.
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The devs have already shot it down, numerous times. They do not want the game to become City of Jetbikes.|
Originally Posted by Shadow_State
Untill a Dev comes in and says it isn't going to happen the idea hasn't been shot down for the simple reason that players don't actually get a say in what is developed, no matter how elegant there arguement might be.
Most of Memphis Bill's cut and paste response are out of date or are simply design decisions. Points 1, 2, 3 and 6 are all technicly one point which would require the devs to code a new system that governs vehicle movement. AE has shown us that they aren't adverse to new systems if the effort is warrented, and only the devs can tell us if it is. With power customization coming, theres no reason to think point 5 would be anything greater the just creating the art assets. For point 4, the devs would just have to decide if they wanted full power use, limited power use or no power use, and could use either kheld powers or Only Effecting Self as a basis to get which ever result they choose. |
All the information in the quoted post is still valid to whatever extent that it needs to be: this is a bad idea and will not be used in this game.
We do not need vehicles. We can run and jump and fly and teleport. We don't need something that would by its very nature be slower and visually clunkier.
The ONLY change I'd ask for in the game? Allow us to see inside the train cars.
*edit*
AE is not a new engine. It's a new interface for something that the devs use. It has nothing new in it that wasn't already in use somehow before.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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I couldn't of put it better Shadow State nor would i want to. And what is with the posts saying "WE" dont want vehicles or "WE" dont want this or that...i guess some individuals in humanity have become part of a greater collective now? And to Forbin project: <Suggestions and Ideas Have an idea or suggestion? Talk about them here!>
Dosen't say: <Suggestions and ideas Have an idea or suggestion? Argue about it here or place ur idea and have others tear it to shreads.>
A simple that wont work, its been tried, or i dont agree with or like that idea is sufficient if you dont agree with somethin someone says. thiers no need to try and go into all this detail and try to make urself seem "holier-then-thou" and make people that post their idea feel stupid or like a clueless a**.
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A collectivity against stupid, repetitive ideas? Sure, why not?|
Originally Posted by jd0113
I couldn't of put it better Shadow State nor would i want to. And what is with the posts saying "WE" dont want vehicles or "WE" dont want this or that...i guess some individuals in humanity have become part of a greater collective now?
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This idea has been suggested and shot-down before, and if your only argument is 'WoW does it!' then you're sorely mistaken. The mechanics behind mounts are so ungodly broken that I'd prefer running:
1. Things just 'appear'.
2. Things just 'disappear'.
3. There's no mounted combat.
4. Turning doesn't exist. You just 'change' that direction suddenly.
5. Animation.
6. Different game engines.
Not to mention, WoW operates on a game engine that leaves as little visible as possible; if your character can't get somewhere, then it probably isn't even textured. City of Heroes/Villains defies this with flight, allowing you to go anywhere.
"[This game] does it" is never a good argument because that game isn't CoX, and you can bet they don't operate on the same engine.
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I feel the need to point out - this is not *other MMOs.* Other MMOs also tend to have you walking everywhere, or at best moving at a sprint. We don't.|
Originally Posted by jd0113
If "mounts" can be done in other mmo's then something like this could be done in coh/cov.
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| This would also add more "realism" to the Natural origin heroes and villains since obvioulsy if ur making a Natural origin character it really dosent feel right or "natural" to be eventually using teleport, fly, super speed and such for a movement power. |
The other bits of the suggestion are covered in the cut-paste. This portion of your basis for the suggestion, though, needed to be replied to. (I have no problem with "I'd like to see," mind you. But the "it doesn't fit a natural" just doesn't... well, fly.)
This is a very simple thing...
It has been declared impossible or too much work since issue 1. So was power customisation...
I think it would be possible in a limited system... and yes... it would probably work much like WOW does.
BUT... this would be a huge amound of coding. It would involve tweaking and changing the engine and its interface. Therefore it will NOT be done very soon. And IF it is done that will become a whole issue on itself.
Let us just wait and see. It has been on the wanted list for ages. And the devs know about it for just as long.
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Memphis_Bill
[quote]Tell that to every Peacebringer around. Or Manticore (taps into the med teleportation system.) Or to a bird. Natural does not mean "Natural human." Nor does it preclude one from using other technological means (jet boots, piston boots,) magical (winged boots) or the like for "a little help" while the rest of their powers - the core of their abilities - are "natural."quote]
I always find it funny when people trot out the "Natural Origin" argument to try to justify their desire for vehicles.
Vehicles fall under Technology/Science. I've never heard of a woman giving birth to a car/jet/motorcycle. They don't grow on trees (despite the fact that they get manufactured in plants. 
) There's nothing "natural" about vehicles.
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Actually it was never, ever declared impossible by any redname. In fact, they said it could be done. I personally suspect with less effort than went into the power customization process.|
Originally Posted by Liz_Bathory_EU
This is a very simple thing...
It has been declared impossible or too much work since issue 1. So was power customisation... I think it would be possible in a limited system... and yes... it would probably work much like WOW does. BUT... this would be a huge amound of coding. It would involve tweaking and changing the engine and its interface. Therefore it will NOT be done very soon. And IF it is done that will become a whole issue on itself. Let us just wait and see. It has been on the wanted list for ages. And the devs know about it for just as long. |
HOWEVER, as I said before, they've directly said "we will not do this" because they don't want it to become City of Jetbikes. Pretty plain and simple: they do not WANT to do it. Just because a couple players (and certainly no majority, extrapolated by the lengthy and quantitative arguments against it, and the few successful retorts by those who DO want it) would like something, doesn't make it worth any dev's time.
And if they simply don't WANT to put it in the game because they don't feel the game would benefit in any way (which they do, and it wouldn't) then it's time to just accept that and move on. If you want to play a racing game, play something else online. this one won't be it.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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I am Kamen Rider Fan andwould love to be able to have cycle that would work with Kamen Rider like Hero or Villian style
If they added another flypose emote, you could have an invisible jet, like Wonder Woman.
Call me when "Invisible Boat-mobile" is available.
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All player vehicles are currently invisible. |
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
If they added another flypose emote, you could have an invisible jet, like Wonder Woman.
Call me when "Invisible Boat-mobile" is available. |
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
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Actually, OP, there *IS* a need to go into detail. M_B's "cut'n'paste" encapsulates the numerous other times the idea has been brought up and discussed to death in this forum. It is meant as a time saver, not a putdown. If you can't answer the points raised in it, then we aren't having a full discussion of the idea of adding vehicles into this game (not WoW, not any other game that may include mounts or vehicles).|
Originally Posted by jd0113
thiers no need to try and go into all this detail and try to make urself seem "holier-then-thou" and make people that post their idea feel stupid or like a clueless a**.
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S&I is for the purposes you have been told by Forbin & others. We do more than just proclaim "Wouldn't it be cool if..." - we try to make a realistic evaluation of whether it could work or could be modified from existing game engine tech, knowing what we do of the current design philosophy of the Devs.
However - if all you wanted was a simple "yea" or "nay", then here goes:
/unsigned.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
Vehicles again?
*looks at calender*
Yup, 'bout time for it this month.
Let me know if anyone comes up with anything new or if it's just the same old arguments back and forth.
Oh, I almost forgot.....
/unsigned
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I'm all for Spaceships, that will take the fight to a new zone!! The Rikti homeworld!! Muahaha, muahaha!!
TheHermit
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[sarcasm] Awesome, so I can make Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy rip-offs, then.|
Originally Posted by Zekiran_Immortal
All player vehicles are currently invisible.
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[/sarcasm]
<qr>
One thing to consider is how the game world is presented to us. It is a zoned game world. Having vehicles in the small zones we exist in doesn't work well. If the game was to transition to a completely seamless game world that is much more expansive than vehicles would work well and make some sense. Right now traveling between zones is so easy the NEED for a vehicle don't really make sense.
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Many super-heroes/villains have had or have a signature vehicle (batman+batmoblie, Fantastic-four+fantasticar, Ghost rider+his flaming motorcycle) and many mmo games offer the option of having a "mount" which seems to be a popular feature "option" among players. I thought it might be an interesting idea to add the feature ("option") to coh/cov of being able to obtain your very own super hero/villain signature customizable vehicle. If "mounts" can be done in other mmo's then something like this could be done in coh/cov. This could give players another option for a travel "power", or just be something extra they could work to earn or create through the invention system. This would also add more "realism" to the Natural origin heroes and villains since obvioulsy if ur making a Natural origin character it really dosent feel right or "natural" to be eventually using teleport, fly, super speed and such for a movement power. If this were implemented maybe a "base" vehicle (mount) could be made available either though invention system or a new more "natural" feeling power pools set. Options (like a motorcycle, jetpack, etc) could be offered and then allow it to be somewhat customizable, like with color, accessories, auras and what not to have the option of making it "your own". This would give Natural origin players the option for more of a "Natural" feel as well as give other players something more to strive for and make "their own" as well as add to thier characters persona. Ty for listening.