Still have little to do with the original post Razor.
Did you read it?
...ergo being off-topic!
The OP talks about the MA system, and it being 'fixed' it can be assumed the OP referred to it as broken due to the alledged farming, and exploits disscussion going on surrounding it.
Ergo, my post is relevant.
I disagree! I think you're interpreting what the OP was saying, and misinterpreting it, leading up to a post that is almost totally off-topic. Don't put your words and thoughts into the OPs text.
also, you're not even arguing about that, you're arguing about farming, so even by your own standards you're off-topic. Why not start your own thread about what you wanna say, or maybe a blog?
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I disagree! I think you're interpreting what the OP was saying, and misinterpreting it, leading up to a post that is almost totally off-topic. Don't put your words and thoughts into the OPs text.
also, you're not even arguing about that, you're arguing about farming, so even by your own standards you're off-topic. Why not start your own thread about what you wanna say, or maybe a blog?
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Threads here don't always stay on topic - the discussion evolves as people give their opinions, and new thoughts come up.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I disagree! I think you're interpreting what the OP was saying, and misinterpreting it, leading up to a post that is almost totally off-topic. Don't put your words and thoughts into the OPs text.
also, you're not even arguing about that, you're arguing about farming, so even by your own standards you're off-topic. Why not start your own thread about what you wanna say, or maybe a blog?
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Threads here don't always stay on topic - the discussion evolves as people give their opinions, and new thoughts come up.
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Also off-topic!
regardless of what you call offtopic SingStar, i am going to continue to follow the pace the topic has evolved into.
Also, singstar, stop PMing me. Keep your complaints public.
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I disagree! I think you're interpreting what the OP was saying, and misinterpreting it, leading up to a post that is almost totally off-topic. Don't put your words and thoughts into the OPs text.
also, you're not even arguing about that, you're arguing about farming, so even by your own standards you're off-topic. Why not start your own thread about what you wanna say, or maybe a blog?
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Threads here don't always stay on topic - the discussion evolves as people give their opinions, and new thoughts come up.
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Also off-topic!
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Sort of - but it can be traced back to the opening post 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Complaining in a thread ruins it imho, if the two of us have a problem we sort it out.
Can we get back on-topic?
Yes, let's.
Just like every other time the NCsoft staff have attempted to introduce rules which reduce farming, i think this one will end up with people leaving COV, which is the last thing we need.
My point/starting point was that the general agreement on this forum has to be that they've got things wrong, they just differ on why:
1) It's wrong because they created the MA in the first place which allows powerlevelling, farming and grinding at a pace never seen before (what is street sweeping if on grinding, farming or even power levelling when on a double XP weekend)? It also allows them to get out of creating new mission content, as we can do it just fine ourselves now
or
2) It's wrong because they give us a tool, knowing the problems that would arise with it, then wait an entire month before announcing vague threats over 'abusers' of the system.
MA itself is the pandora's box. I think it's a brilliant feature, one that I had no idea would ever happen in an MMO. Proper user-created content is like our own, global yet personal, mission-generating holodeck. In itself it's given me the idea for my main's backstory as well as the Peacebringer I'll create when he finally hits 50.
MA made it fun to team and blast things in the face until it stopped being funny, but it's also created real powerlevellers with little to no understanding of the game itself, never mind their own toons. The effects on the Invention/Enhancement/Salvage market economy has yet to be seen, though is suggested one way or the other.
Somewhere between the two is the way to keep the best of both worlds and not totally lose the people who hate PLing and not alienate the people who have found a new enjoyment of the game because of it.
My thoughts on how to fix it, addressing most of the problems would be:
1) Move the AE buildings away from the starting zones - don't expose toons to it until at least level ten, not an auto-contact at level, what, five? Shouldn't even enter people's minds, as the opening missions and a decent sewer run can get any toon to at least level six.
2) Lower the XP and particularly the Inf from the MA. It's fake fighting, and in that world any hero who boasted 'I've defeated a virtual Lord Recluse' would be laughed out of Pocket D. Why do you get full influence for beating up holograms? Do someone explain that to me. Risk/reward? Rubbish.
3) The ticket reward issues such as recipes, salvage and DOs, SOs and TOs that can be gained in huge numbers also needs addressing. For solo and team play, it's not much of an issue, but for PvPing and the billion-influence recipe market (that I have no knowledge or intention to use thereof) there are evidently some problems.
Blueside Union: Starblayde (Blaster), Pax Imperia (Tanker), Pax Britannia (Defender)
Redside Union: Natasha Redshade (Stalker)
I totally agree... The xp on custom mob groups could be taken out as well, or cut in 10ths so they're still a fun and/or useful part of your story, but not farmable.
From a "story" standpoint it's pretty rediculous you earn "real" things from the MA. I understand we need something to keep us playing it and it has to be good enough for enough of us to keep using it. If not it would be dead today.
Basically it's a balancing issue and that's for datamining and devs to sort out. Of course it can be done, just like the merits, power balancing etc. They'll get it right in due time if they consider it important enough.
I was surprisingly interested in the MA when it hit live servers. Stupid badges, and then the lag/dc killed it off pretty fast, but I'm still looking forward to testing more inside SG jokes, crafting arcs myself etc, and in time I'm sure there'll be some fabulous stuff there.
I really liked the first space patrol arc and a few others that was genuinely original and well crafted.
The problem is of course that we really can't afford mistakes and problems right now. It used to be fairly ok, we'd know they'd fix it, and there was no other temptations, so we waited, and waited...
...CoP anyone?
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Yes, let's.
Just like every other time the NCsoft staff have attempted to introduce rules which reduce farming, i think this one will end up with people leaving COV, which is the last thing we need.
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Nope i think i could quite happily see some people leave.
Particularly those that think it is ok to invite me to a team within a second of me logging on before i even toggle on some powers. Going "come on mate got a good farm going".
If i was a new player or one who did not have friends who over the years i now pretty semi-exclusively team with then i would be driven off by all that nonsense, The question is will they lose more or less with the curb on exploits.
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2) Lower the XP and particularly the Inf from the MA. It's fake fighting, and in that world any hero who boasted 'I've defeated a virtual Lord Recluse' would be laughed out of Pocket D. Why do you get full influence for beating up holograms? Do someone explain that to me. Risk/reward? Rubbish.
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Err, that's an argument from realism, which is generally a hint that you're chasing down a blind alley. In terms of gameplay, they're the same. The risks are in principle the same. All that's necessary is to get the rewards straight.
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2) Lower the XP and particularly the Inf from the MA. It's fake fighting, and in that world any hero who boasted 'I've defeated a virtual Lord Recluse' would be laughed out of Pocket D. Why do you get full influence for beating up holograms? Do someone explain that to me. Risk/reward? Rubbish.
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Err, that's an argument from realism, which is generally a hint that you're chasing down a blind alley. In terms of gameplay, they're the same. The risks are in principle the same. All that's necessary is to get the rewards straight.
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Yeah, in practice, LR dropped into an MA mission'll be just as tough as the real thing unless on Heroic, I think. Same risk.
Not sure who made the suggestion, but the suggestion that'd fit most thematically is that for XP, you can only get so many bars worth from MA. It'd reduce powerlevelling, and represents that while virtual training does lead to some self-improvement, it'll only get you so far and you'll need field experience as well.
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2) Lower the XP and particularly the Inf from the MA. It's fake fighting, and in that world any hero who boasted 'I've defeated a virtual Lord Recluse' would be laughed out of Pocket D. Why do you get full influence for beating up holograms? Do someone explain that to me. Risk/reward? Rubbish.
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Err, that's an argument from realism, which is generally a hint that you're chasing down a blind alley. In terms of gameplay, they're the same. The risks are in principle the same. All that's necessary is to get the rewards straight.
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Yeah, in practice, LR dropped into an MA mission'll be just as tough as the real thing unless on Heroic, I think. Same risk.
Not sure who made the suggestion, but the suggestion that'd fit most thematically is that for XP, you can only get so many bars worth from MA. It'd reduce powerlevelling, and represents that while virtual training does lead to some self-improvement, it'll only get you so far and you'll need field experience as well.
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Paragon have already 'biged up' the MA's ability to allow a player to play from 1-50 on player created content alone.
Removing that ability would be a PR disaster.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Paragon have already 'biged up' the MA's ability to allow a player to play from 1-50 on player created content alone.
Removing that ability would be a PR disaster.
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But just don't do it too fast - naughty naughty!
To be fair, any MA levelling - even on story arcs - would be at a higher pace than regular content levelling as there's no travelling involved from contact to contact, and every five missions or so you get an arc-ending boss.
Blueside Union: Starblayde (Blaster), Pax Imperia (Tanker), Pax Britannia (Defender)
Redside Union: Natasha Redshade (Stalker)
Now, I'm not a role player, but if I where, I'd probably go insane about how the story's gone belly up totally.
I personally definitively thing MA play should be rewarded to get people to actually use it, problem is that will always leave people looking for the next so-called exploit and from an RP stance it makes very little sense. "Who's paying for the rewards, how can I get loot in a virtual world" etc.
You can get around parts of it by claiming LR and the government/longbow/whoever's paying because they consider it "training" and important, or by saying inf really isn't a currency, but actual "influence" over people, and "infamy" scaring people, so they "give" you what you ask for/demand.
...but let's face it, it's not like noone before paragon studios had the idea of something MA'ish is it. It's just that other MMO studios descided it was not doable for several important reasons, of which we've obviously seen a few. The good thing is, if they actually end up getting it right, this might open doors in future MMOs that might be really, really interesting.
Just imagine if you brought some MA'ish into a new MMO from the beginning (of the coding/conceptualization, all that happens 2 years before the game is launched, not necessarily leaving it "on" from the launch). Oh, that's a bit OT, soz! 
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1) It's wrong because they created the MA in the first place which allows powerlevelling, farming and grinding at a pace never seen before (what is street sweeping if on grinding, farming or even power levelling when on a double XP weekend)? It also allows them to get out of creating new mission content, as we can do it just fine ourselves now
or
2) It's wrong because they give us a tool, knowing the problems that would arise with it, then wait an entire month before announcing vague threats over 'abusers' of the system.
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Actually, I'd say "both". MA is a superb tool, but given an increasingly large section of the games population wants everything "now" rather than enjoy the journey in getting it, anyone that thought it'd be used for much other than farming in an environment like that clearly lives in cloud cuckoo land.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
(QR)
Should the devs fix the issue? Yes, it's amazing they left it run for so long. However then declaring people may have their toons culled / dropped back to their original levels without defining it properly is just silly. Plus the nature of posting about it just on the forums means Chinese Whispers are now running around the servers and the majority of people, who don't visit the forums, are now hearing second hand, distorted information about the "massive nerf" Posi is going to introduce which does them no favours and just riles up people with misinformation.
Did they reap what they sowed? Again yes. Comms Officers were changed in the past specifically to avoid farming issues. Someone, as part of the development, should have flagged critters they thought may cause issues. The fact that Comms Officers have needed adjusting in the past they should have had a red flag beside them and been one things checked as ripe for abuse. The Devs claiming they didn't expect it means they're awfully short-sighted in terms of balancing the game. It certainly doesn't instill confidence in their continued ability to maintain the game and game balance.
Incredibly badly thought out in terms of implementation and in terms of managing and containing the resulting situation.
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Donna~Why don't they just remove Xp from the AE system and be done with it. Finally you have lvl 50 content, make it lvl 50's only. Could keep the ticket system but perhaps tone it down a little. Farming AE problems solved.
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ReclusesPhantom~I can see where you're going with this, Donna_, but then players (especially ones with altitus and new players) might be outraged that access to taking the wheel and creating their own story is denied to them. It would stop the problem, but loads of people lacking 50's won't like it.
Donna~Players shouldn't be outraged at not being able to access lvl 50 content on their lvl 1's,
already people understand it as general practise that you don't get a travel power til 14, no cape til 20, no aura til 30, and no epic powers til 41, this simply would beciome that way it is.
Removing xp won't help either because as someone said on another post (can't remember who) that people like to see progression, even if they are just in it for the story.
In theory it could work but sadly it would possibly make things worse 
Donna~[ If it was lvl 50 content then there would be no use for xp... and then people would have something to do after reaching 50. By then they may also know what their powers are for, how to use them and what makes a good map/mission
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Moghedien~Hm maybe change it so only vets with 6+ months badges get XP in the missions? They most likely played most dev made content already
Donna~[ Wouldn't solve it, count how many farmers you would discount with that and how many wouldn't be effected at all...
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To be honest I am pro farming, but the MA system needs looking at, and making it the lvl 50 contect a.k.a Endgame would make the most sense.
p.s. - Rollback PvP and I wouldn't spend my time farming!
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
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While we have accomplished some of those goals with the initial launch of Mission Architect, some have found ways to abuse the system we put in place. We are not blind to this happening, nor did we not expect it.
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On the subject of Chinese Whispers, may be worth re-reading the bolded line.
Yea that really is quite silly, it sounds like an awful defence of "We wanted to release it supah early but it was bugged with tonnes of XP, but meh." We'll just warn you with a very vague policy.
Fury
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While we have accomplished some of those goals with the initial launch of Mission Architect, some have found ways to abuse the system we put in place. We are not blind to this happening, nor did we not expect it.
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On the subject of Chinese Whispers, may be worth re-reading the bolded line.
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Ack, double negative hurt brain.
Given that I read the original and still managed to misread it my point about miscommunication still stands. What chance do those hearing about it 3rd or 4th hand have?
So they expected it and still let it go forward? That's probably even worse.
as one poster already pointed out, remove the ability to play missions above your level.
This wont stop farming, but it will cut down the amount of it and will cut down the number of all level 1 toons playing level 50 content.
This will also force players to wait to fight the better mobs. Hellions/skulls = lowbie, rikti/DE/nemesis=high level.
Players can still go from level 1 to level 50 through MA but just like any Task Force, you cannot play content above your level (SK'd or not). The Arc minimum level becomes the minimum level for entry. An arc that has level 1 mobs followed by level 50 mobs would then just be badly designed as the level 1 player that starts and then enters mission 2 would get wiped repeatedly.
PS: I agree with the remove INF idea: its a virtual stage so where's the fame coming from? no-one else sees what you do (how many civilians have you seen inside the arcs? how many civillians outside the MA building comment on what you have achieved? "Hey I heard Hero played video games while Skyway city got stomped by an invasion of giant monsters! what a git..")
Without INF: the farmers can only earn Tickets. They sell these on the market for inf to buy what they want ==> the market still benefits from supply but the amount of "currency" in circulation is brough tunder control which should help reduce the current inflation of even the lowest Proc. I forget which one I was looking at but it was 80 million for a level 10 recipe... there goes my hopes of having the set...unless i farm for inf in the architect missions... wait! forget everything I just said!
yes, although that is essentially correct, within city of villains, i feel, and have found significant evidence for the existence of farming being a good thing.
For example, in other games, (100% pvp games) for example, exteel, exploiting developed systems will lead to an advantage OF ONE PLAYER OVER ANOTHER.
However, since PVP in COV is voluntary, farming is different under these cirumstances and thus has a different effect on gameplay. as i stated before, i have found significant evidence for farming having an impact on this game, i.e it creates supply and demand on the market.