Ice for brutes


Amber_V

 

Posted

was gona keep this going in this thread but in a attempt not to send it of topic ill create a new one.

Ok ice for brute we had it and it was taken from us before the end of beta the general consensus being that -recharge that it imposed on enemies was bad for fury generation (i don't agree but never mind that)

Ice Armour

taking ice armour first as its only real problem is the ordering of the powers i would suggest they re order the powers as follows

1.Frozen Armour
2.Hoarfrost
3.Icicles
4.Wet Ice
5.Permafrost
6.Energy Absorption
7.Glacial Armour
8.Chilling Embrace
9.Hibernate

all the original powers are there and would require no new powers to be created

Icicles: moves to tier 3 making it available at lvl 4

Energy Absorption: moves to tier 6 making it available at 20 so offering a choice between strait up stamina or a endurance recover power it will also add a small amount of defence so increasing survivability

finally we get to Chilling Embrace which has moved to tier 8 normally considered the fly in the ointment for moving ice armour to brutes moving it to tier 8 makes it available at 35 a pouting it within the realms of cloak of fear(28) and oppressive gloom (35).
Now consider the following these 3 powers work pretty much in the same way they reduce incoming damage by reducing the number of attacks that come your way in a given period of time.
Also many dark armour brutes will pick up and use either CoF or OG and some will even use both there for i would say at this lvl CE would fit in perfectly, further as its now much higher up the power tree the player has already more than likely got a good handle on what they can survive with ice armour and so could easily choose to skip it if they so desired.

Ice Melee

Now onto Ice melee which is more problematic as many of its attacks cause slow and its this stacking of slow that causes problems first of i would reduce the -recharge done by all the attacks in the ice melee set by at least half maybe even 3/4.

I would also reorder and change the powers as follows.

1. frozen fists
2. ice sword
3. frost
4. Build up
5. ice sword circle
6. taunt
7. freezing touch
8. greater ice sword
9. frozen aura

Most power would remain as is (tho with reduced -recharge) frost would be alter to front load a portion of its damage other than that it would remain unchanged*

Build up moves to tier 4 to stay in line with the general layout of brute power.

Ice sword circle replaces ice patch.

Taunt moves to tier 6 again to stay in line with general brute powerset lay out.

I've left freezing touch in however as it should be a decent attack on a brute however it could be changed for immobilise instead of a hold in a similar vain to dark melees midnight grasp.

Greater ice sword again is unchanged it could have its damage raised to superior tho if ice was lacking damage

and finally frozen aura i left it in my list as it could work damage seems good and as its a sleep a simple AoE attack or damage aura would brake it however i was originally tempted to replace this with a foot stomp like attack that caused ice shards to explode from the ground as it would be both visually impressive and serve to give a cool looking set defining power.

*I was suprised to see that according to mids teh damage domne by frost and fire breath are very similar


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
and finally frozen aura i left it in my list as it could work damage seems good and as its a sleep a simple AoE attack or damage aura would brake it however i was originally tempted to replace this with a foot stomp like attack that caused ice shards to explode from the ground as it would be both visually impressive and serve to give a cool looking set defining power.

[/ QUOTE ]Isn't this exactly what Frozen Aura already looks like?

Also, just pointing out: Comparing Ice Armor to Dark Armor for Brutes isn't really a good example of anything, because Dark Armor already rapes Fury income for Brutes that don't have a speedy primary, if you choose to run the set-defining toggles (without which you might as well go for another secondary).



I think we're getting these powersets for Brutes someday anyway. As the game progresses, Brutes keep getting access to more powers with -rech in them; recently even an ice-themed one in the form of Arctic Breath. So, I'd guess it'll just become one of the poorer powerset combos for Fury generation, similar to Dark Armor. Unless they change stuff a lot. And if they do, they really ought to do something about Dark's mez toggles, otherwise it's just not justified.


 

Posted

Was the Ice Armor on brutes not changed to Energy Amour?

Though I agree that -recharge not being to bad for fury, well at least not any worse then all the knockdown and stun done by Super Strength and War Mace, Axe...
However, how about replacing the -recharge with -regain or just a regular slow effect. Both in the primary and secondary, that would solve any perceived fury problems.


 

Posted

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recharge that it imposed on enemies was bad for fury generation

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That was only one of the reasons. There was also the desire at the time to keep some sets unique to certain ATs, and the fact that ice melee was a fairly low agression - high control set, not really appropiate for a SMASH AT.


Personally, I don't think brutes need Ice, but it would be a good set to port to stalkers.


I really should do something about this signature.

 

Posted

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Was the Ice Armor on brutes not changed to Energy Amour?

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In effect, yes, Energy Aura was created from Ice Armor to try and make a more brute friendly set.


I really should do something about this signature.

 

Posted

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[ QUOTE ]
and finally frozen aura i left it in my list as it could work damage seems good and as its a sleep a simple AoE attack or damage aura would brake it however i was originally tempted to replace this with a foot stomp like attack that caused ice shards to explode from the ground as it would be both visually impressive and serve to give a cool looking set defining power.

[/ QUOTE ]Isn't this exactly what Frozen Aura already looks like?

Also, just pointing out: Comparing Ice Armor to Dark Armor for Brutes isn't really a good example of anything, because Dark Armor already rapes Fury income for Brutes that don't have a speedy primary, if you choose to run the set-defining toggles (without which you might as well go for another secondary).



I think we're getting these powersets for Brutes someday anyway. As the game progresses, Brutes keep getting access to more powers with -rech in them; recently even an ice-themed one in the form of Arctic Breath. So, I'd guess it'll just become one of the poorer powerset combos for Fury generation, similar to Dark Armor. Unless they change stuff a lot. And if they do, they really ought to do something about Dark's mez toggles, otherwise it's just not justified.

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Im not sure my ice melee toons not high anuff to have it yet so i've yet to see it in action if it is them all the better

i compaired ice to dark for exactly that reason if anything dark has a greater effect of fury generation than ice armour would which i feel makes the portion of the argument pretty void.

as to darks mez toggles they only become a problem really if you run them constantly i find they can be pretty effective if you run them selectivly.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Was the Ice Armor on brutes not changed to Energy Amour?

Though I agree that -recharge not being to bad for fury, well at least not any worse then all the knockdown and stun done by Super Strength and War Mace, Axe...
However, how about replacing the -recharge with -regain or just a regular slow effect. Both in the primary and secondary, that would solve any perceived fury problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup changing the -recharge to just plain old slow would work well and could even be benificial to the brute at its harder for his prey to run away when he starts smashing them.


 

Posted

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recharge that it imposed on enemies was bad for fury generation

[/ QUOTE ]

That was only one of the reasons. There was also the desire at the time to keep some sets unique to certain ATs, and the fact that ice melee was a fairly low agression - high control set, not really appropiate for a SMASH AT.


Personally, I don't think brutes need Ice, but it would be a good set to port to stalkers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea i remember the unique reason but that's pretty much been blown out the water so only really leave the bad for fury argument

and while brutes don't need ice the same could be said for any new power set its not like we really need more but more are nice and give variety plus ice has a pretty distinctive look which may suit some people concepts.

and yes ice would be good for stalkers tho with all that hold and sleep and KD it could be argued that it would be to good.


 

Posted

Brutes need Spines, Claws and Katana!


 

Posted

ill /sign that more power sets means i can roll more brutes without feeling I'm repeating my self


 

Posted

Yeah, I think all three of those would bring more to brutes than Ice.


I really should do something about this signature.

 

Posted

well yet but theres three of them so thats more choice than 2

on a some what related note given the devs love of doing sets in pairs what would they transport across armour wise ro go with them, ninja reflexes? / regen?


 

Posted

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well yet but theres three of them so thats more choice than 2

on a some what related note given the devs love of doing sets in pairs what would they transport across armour wise ro go with them, ninja reflexes? / regen?

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With those sets they wouldn't need to.


 

Posted

I would love to see Ice Armor and Ice Melee for Brute's, 2 great sets.
Now Ice Armor i see no problem porting it to Brute's except for Chilling EMbrace's slow effect( Change the Slow into -Resistance or keep as is, but remove the -Recharge of it).

Now with Ice Melee, what if they change all the -Recharge into -Slow or -Resistance(SOmething whats frozen will break quicker, theme wise).
that way Brute''s can get Ice Melee to.

Saying that Ice is only for tankers specific i find that nonsense, look at Corrupters we had Thermal and Cold Domination, that where specific Corrupters only powers, but then they ported it over to Defenders and Controllers.
Dominators had Plant Control for their AT, but then ported over to Controllers also, and there a few more example's but get my point.

Please give us Brute's Ice Armor and Melee.

And YES to Katana Brute's or Broadsword , hence we even have Dual Blades, so no reason to not give us BS or Katana :P


49 level 50's(CoH/V), cant be arsed to list em all :P

 

Posted

Maybe make Ice melee -def. Seeing as someone who is frozen can't move so fast?


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Posted

I dont understand this obscession with Ice for brutes, it was tried and judged not to work. I would much much rather have a set that actually works good for brutes.

And changing the Ice attacks to -def or something like that would mean it would not really be ya know ice anymore...


 

Posted

The Devs at the time judged it not to work based on the fact that it could potentially slow down fury generation they also wanted to at the time keep certain power sets for certain ATs.

All these things have now changed fury has been altered since closed beta and now build differently and they no longer intend to keep specific power sets with specific ATs

In my first post a suggest that they could reduce the -recharge effect from ice not remove it which would keep the general theme of ice doing slow but would reduce the slow that it inflicts on a target.


 

Posted

I think Enkil's point is "why Ice" when there are lots of other good powersets that could be ported over to brutes (and brutes already have more options than any other melee AT).


Ice Melee, there is precidence for making it -dmg, but even then, it is still a slow attacking set.


I really should do something about this signature.

 

Posted

Ah in that case my response is why not yes there are other good power sets but why should that stop me suggesting ice?

I just happened to pick ice to suggest doesn't mean i wouldn't love to see claws or spines be moved over or even something new like radiation or something created


 

Posted

Hmm, not regarding Ice, but Dark... has it been considered to make the mez-toggles like Oppressive Gloom generate Fury like an attack when they hit? Pseudo-thematically, it's not too out there. After all, for each you hit you are getting hurt slightly.


 

Posted

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The Devs at the time judged it not to work based on the fact that it could potentially slow down fury generation they also wanted to at the time keep certain power sets for certain ATs.

All these things have now changed fury has been altered since closed beta and now build differently and they no longer intend to keep specific power sets with specific ATs


[/ QUOTE ]

I was not aware that fury worked differently in the past, but i can still see a Ice brute having trouble building fury with it.

You use Dark armor as an example of "working set" that also slows down fury building by having damage mitigation that prevents mobs from attacking you. I used to have a Dark brute and solo i never used CoF or OG since it slowed down my fury to much, in teams it was less of an issue. In the end i deleted him because Elec armor worked so much better for a brute.

I would rather use Dark Armor as an example of how not to do it with future brute sets.


 

Posted

Fury has only had minor alterations since closed beta.

The only thing that has really changed since then is the devs aren't so worried about dishing out gimped powersets.


I really should do something about this signature.

 

Posted

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Ah in that case my response is why not yes there are other good power sets but why should that stop me suggesting ice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok.

Suggestion: proliferate all powers to all ATs.

Right, now that's done we can shut down the Suggestions forum.


I really should do something about this signature.

 

Posted

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Fury has only had minor alterations since closed beta.

The only thing that has really changed since then is the devs aren't so worried about dishing out gimped powersets.

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fury changed a fair bit since closed beta originally you built fury from everything including damage auras and you got the same value of fury no matter what attacked you.


 

Posted

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Ah in that case my response is why not yes there are other good power sets but why should that stop me suggesting ice?

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Ok.

Suggestion: proliferate all powers to all ATs.

Right, now that's done we can shut down the Suggestions forum.

[/ QUOTE ]


Pfft once they've done that they can move on to making more new power sets there can never be to many sets IMO