Update on possible changes for Dominators

While browsing the U.S forums i came across a rather nifty post by castle in regards to the possible changes for dominators to make them more viable for teams when compared to controllers

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Just so folks know what the goals for Dominator changes, if/when they eventually happen, here's a list.

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Overall Goals:

* Eliminate Jeckyll and Hyde feeling.
* Improve "feel" of low level play.
* Have minimal impact on "Perma-dom" players.
* Increase Dominator vs. Controller viability.



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I my self was a bit unnerved about upcoming changes to dom's since it would mean all the money i spent perma-doming up my character would be mostly ruined, but after reading the goals list i am definitely more in favor of some extra upgrades

Darn! I quite like being Jeckyll and Hyde.

They just need to make Jeckyll suck less without nerfing Hyde.

They need to remove the perma-mag 4 hold from domination and replace it with a 'chance for +1 mag' like controllers have (Dom's having more control than a controller is stupid) and take the damage out and make 75% of whatever bonus it is work even out of dom. I don't care about the mez prot, let them keep that.

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Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

My inclination would be to remove the +damage from Domination, and increase base damage, say to 1.1 melee, 1.0 ranged. But ymmv.

Or just swap Domination with containment.

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Or just swap Domination with containment.

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Well that would sort of go against what Castle said about not screwing with perma-doms. It'd also be a massive nerf to Dominators control inside Domination (since Containment doesn't do anything for Control)

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My inclination would be to remove the +damage from Domination, and increase base damage, say to 1.1 melee, 1.0 ranged. But ymmv.


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This will be what they end up doing, shifting most of the damage bonus from Domination into the AT damage modifiers so that Domination gives Control & End top-up & Mez Protection but no/little additional damage.

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It'd also be a massive nerf to Dominators control inside Domination (since Containment doesn't do anything for Control)


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Just give doms the duration and critical mezzes that controllers currently get to go with it.

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It'd also be a massive nerf to Dominators control inside Domination (since Containment doesn't do anything for Control)


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Just give doms the duration and critical mezzes that controllers currently get to go with it.

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So just turn them into controllers with an Assult set secondary?

Urrgh. Horrible idea. Removes most of the uniqueness of the AT. You'd end up alienating most of the current Dominator population in one fell stroke as well.

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Removes most of the overpoweredness of the AT

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Corrected for you

I know what you are trying to say (And agree, containment isn't a good idea [2 x damage on a damage capped PSW! - no thanks]), but at the moment dominators that have any amount spent on them can out control controllers AND outdamage pretty much anything. The damage I am not so bothered about (Aside from PSW, which is another matter) but needs to be balanced between in and out of dom, but the control is the thing that really gets me, why even have a controller on a co-op team when a perma-dom can out-hold them, no matter how much the controller spends on his build.

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Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

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Removes most of the overpoweredness of the AT

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Corrected for you

I know what you are trying to say (And agree, containment isn't a good idea [2 x damage on a damage capped PSW! - no thanks]), but at the moment dominators that have any amount spent on them can out control controllers AND outdamage pretty much anything. The damage I am not so bothered about (Aside from PSW, which is another matter) but needs to be balanced between in and out of dom, but the control is the thing that really gets me, why even have a controller on a co-op team when a perma-dom can out-hold them, no matter how much the controller spends on his build.

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1) Perma-Doms are not the base-line to determine the strenght of the AT. I'd strongly disagree with "but at the moment dominators that have any amount spent on them can out control controllers". It's not "any amount", it's the 100s of mill needed to get permadom. (and Controllers can get things like perma-PAs or perma AM or whatever with the same investment, which brings me to...)

2) Controllers also get a full support set. Support sets buff you AND your entire team. A Psi perma-dom might be able to outdamage a Fire/Kin controller but you're then not taking into account what the Controller does for the rest of the team too (like raising their damage to the max), or what debuffs the Controller brings to tackle that AV.

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I'd strongly disagree with "but at the moment dominators that have any amount spent on them can out control controllers"

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I think it can be done on about 100mil (For certain sets), and with merits is even easier than ever before.

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Perma-Doms are not the base-line to determine the strenght of the AT

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No but they need to be taken into account on a more than 'lets not hurt their feelings' level. A perma-dom is almost an AT by itself and it is a broken one at that.

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Controllers also get a full support set. Support sets buff you AND your entire team

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And dominators get a whole damage secondary that at perma-dom levels can do more than a blaster! Which is much more than was intended.

I never said hit them with a massive nerf, and do agree that a standard dominator needs a buff. Hence I say transfer most of (Not all) the damage buff from domination to be an always on effect (Through increasing base damage probably) and make all holds mag 3 as standard (Not sure if this is the case or not currently). Then domination should give the mez protection and a chance for +1 mag. Being able to hold a whole mob full of bosses every time is crazy! And the only thing I actually care about.

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Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

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And dominators get a whole damage secondary that at perma-dom levels can do more than a blaster! Which is much more than was intended.


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Actually given this I decided to have a quick look at level 50 blaster powers vs level 50 Doms. Not counting Defiance (so levering things towards the Domi even further) blaster for ranged a Blaster does 173% of the damage of the domi. Even counting the 50% damage boost in Domination the Blaster is ahead, even before he starts using Defiance.

There is the oddball case of Psi Domi's PSW which has always seemed grossly overpowered to me compared to other Dominator assult powers but that's a power imbalance, not an AT one IMO.

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Being able to hold a whole mob full of bosses every time is crazy! And the only thing I actually care about.


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Reducing the AOE mezzes in some way that they'd have a chance for +mag instead would be reasonable alright.

Gonna conced that one actually Carnifax, I think the over abundance of PSW is skewing my vision of doms.

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Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

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Gonna conced that one actually Carnifax, I think the over abundance of PSW is skewing my vision of doms.

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Heh, and here's me ninja-editing my post to conceed you too have a point on Domination powered AOE mezzes

Just ignore Princess Darkstar. He is just annoyed that my Perma-Domi can out perform his uber-build Warshade.

Personally I'de say change the damage modifiers on Domi attacks to be better all around, or make domination a sort of mini fury. Get to a full domi bar and you get at your most twisted, and therefore able to hold bosses and do way more damage. Therefore perma-doms remain unchanged, and normal domies still get a building damage buff and do more damage. A much better idea.

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I think the over abundance of PSW is skewing my vision of doms.

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And the rest of the set?

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I think the over abundance of PSW is skewing my vision of doms.

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And the rest of the set?

[/ QUOTE ]Drain Psyche is hilariously powerful. Mind Probe is good. Psyhcic Scream is debatable. The rest kind of stinks.
I recall BAB* mentioning that it's likely Psionic Assault will get rebalanced a bit to make the rest of the powerset better while shaving some power off PSW. Currently the set pretty much -is- DP and PSW.

*(BAB may not be the powers guy but I'm assuming he didn't pull this out of his rear end, and has heard it being discussed. Either that or I'm mixing up my red names.)

Why fix what isnt broken. If the devs have a problem with perma dom then look at that in isolation, dont break an excellent AT. Why spend the last 3 years buffing what was easily the runt of the litter only to break it now? Doms are far from the overpowered AT some people seem to think they are, even perma doms. And now with PVP being an insignificance why tinker with their PVE performance??

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Why fix what isnt broken. If the devs have a problem with perma dom then look at that in isolation, dont break an excellent AT. Why spend the last 3 years buffing what was easily the runt of the litter only to break it now? Doms are far from the overpowered AT some people seem to think they are, even perma doms. And now with PVP being an insignificance why tinker with their PVE performance??

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They're looking to buff Doms, especially non-Perma Doms. Castle is looking at making the runt a little less runty, without affecting Permadom.

So long as the changes don't mess up perma-doms too much, then people will be fine. Personally, if they made a toon i've spent a massive amount of inf and time on worthless, i'de probs be looking for another game.

One thing I do have about buffing doms though, is that i LIKE the fact they are hard to get into and play. It takes a certain type of player to play them well and get the most out of them, and I'm quite happy with having an AT that doesn't appeal to all cos its and easy farming toon.

That said, they do need buffing so that being perma isn't the only way to make Domies good.

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One thing I do have about buffing doms though, is that i LIKE the fact they are hard to get into and play. It takes a certain type of player to play them well and get the most out of them

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Same for my Warshade so I understand that logic, I would hate the devs to have suddenly done something drastic to make the forms less important.

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make domination a sort of mini fury. Get to a full domi bar and you get at your most twisted, and therefore able to hold bosses and do way more damage. Therefore perma-doms remain unchanged, and normal domies still get a building damage buff and do more damage

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I have heard this before (probably from you) and while I think it is a good way the damage can work I still dislike seeing mag 4 holds with any kind of regularity, it makes things too easy and is the only thing I begrudge perma-doms. I guess having a high threshold like 80 or 90% could be ok for the mag 4 hold which means pretty much every opening hold would be mag 3 then you build up to mag 4 in the middle of the fights.

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I think the over abundance of PSW is skewing my vision of doms.
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And the rest of the set?

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Would need balancing of course because aside from a few very good powers most of the set is a bit meh, but that still doesn't mean it is good to have a set based around one power. Also I am pretty sure at least one Domi just puts PSW on auto and lets that fire every 2.5ish seconds while not doing much else attack wise, it's wrong to let a set work that way.
PSW needs it recharge upping and its range lowering to put it level with a lot of the other PBAoE's, and obviously the other powers need upping to compensate. It is a good set now and still needs to remain a good set, but because of 9 powers not because of 1.

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Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

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It is a good set now and still needs to remain a good set, but because of 9 powers not because of 1.

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(...also extends to the Foot Stomp powerset. Er, I mean Super Strength powerset. But that's another story for another thread.)

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So long as the changes don't mess up perma-doms too much, then people will be fine. Personally, if they made a toon i've spent a massive amount of inf and time on worthless, i'de probs be looking for another game.

One thing I do have about buffing doms though, is that i LIKE the fact they are hard to get into and play. It takes a certain type of player to play them well and get the most out of them, and I'm quite happy with having an AT that doesn't appeal to all cos its and easy farming toon.

That said, they do need buffing so that being perma isn't the only way to make Domies good.

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You see, I totally appreciate that people who have invested a lot of energy in making perma-doms do not want it trifled with.

however, that doesnt really take away from the opinion that a perma-dom is broken.

Ultimately, given enough influence, a perma-dom is just head and shoulders above anything else in the game.

Mag 4 holds? Mez resistance? (Effectively) unlimited endurance? And a damage bonus on top?

If the game popped up an AT that could do that out of the box, CoX would laugh itself to death.

I appreciate that perma-doms need a lot of work to get perma, but the fact is that they can reach heights above any other AT eventually.

Im not even factoring the huge +recharge global bonus that a perma dom would have that would be quite magnificent in its own right - because every AT can have that.

Personally, whilst being sympathetic to people who have invested a lot in perma-doms, I think they need nerfing. They should still be super-awesome, but only as super-awesome as any other AT that has invested that amount of IO'ing.

Im all for buffing the "baseline" dominator, however.

What's all this mag 4 hold business anyway? Domination doubles magnitude, so a standard hold would go from mag 3 to mag 6.

Standard holds are 2, enough to hold a lt in one hit. Domination is Mag 4 (2x2) and is enough to hold a Boss in one hit, as I think they have mag 3 hold resistance. An EB has Mag 8, and takes 4 normal holds to overpower it (I think)