Sync issue not our ISPs
By
Archie Gremlin,
Posted on: 2009-02-08 10:42 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
It is a bug, and that's why they put in the /sync command, but EU side they're completely refusing to admit that.
The bug IS related to lag though and that MIGHT be your ISP, but usually it happens to a lot of players at the same time, no matter what ISP they have.
I had some serious arguments with the tech's and even GR about it about a year ago (methink) edning up in discussions about the ISPs using cheap/free services themselves even though it was confirmed my ISP most definitely didn't fall into that category making me wonder if it's actually NC using a cheap ISP that's using cheap services themselves.
I'm just glad they put in the /sync command, knowing that internet is internet and it's pretty (cencored) at times. The problems usually goes away after a week or two, so there's just one choise: Hang in there, grind your teeth, keep breathing and... wait...
Just out of curiosity, what sort of patterns do you get from the in game network monitor (/netgraph 1) when you're suffering from sync problems and when you're not.
(I apologise if this seems like a stupid question.)
Yes i find very hard to believe it's our ISPs, as i have chars who both have sync bug and those who don't.
It is related to lag, as i experienced it on a new char over on union during the dxp event where union was suffering from long loads and etc.
But what i think is odd is that even tho the lag is gone, the sync bug remains. For me the problem doesn't go away in a week or two, if a char gets the sync bug it persists on that char indefinatly.
I also find that sometimes it seems to be certain places too. I find it is horrible in Steel Canyon, and the same in Cimerora, in fact it can take up to 5 attempts to get out of the cave sometimes,lol.
Ur right Sapphic, it also seems to be more on certain alts, my main especially at the top of my character list.
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966
I never have any problems with having to retype /sync.
i do it once when i finished zoning and then i don't have to use it again until i zone again.
Saying it's the ISP's is kind of disingenuous, How ever, it is likely to be intermediate hardware, as this isuee has cropped up in other games who's servers are in totally different countries.
It ain't lag, it's packet loss. Somewhere between your PC and the CoH servers, data is being dropped. For some reason, at least SOME packet loss always goes hand in hand with lag on CoH, which technically shouldn't happen.
Causes for packet loss can be anything. Your router may not be able to multitask very well, like if it's a Speedtouch. Your ISP may be getting full up. The CoH servers may be getting hammered, causing it to drop old packets.
It's alright for some packets to be dropped, 'cause usually the game has gone on since your PC tried to send that packet. But the stuff related to the /sync bug should NEVER drop, it should be resent if it breaks. Yet it doesn't.
Loads of things cause packet loss, but CoH is also at fault for not handling it very well. Leastwise, that's how I see it.
Necrobond - 50 BS/Inv Scrapper made in I1
Rickar - 50 Bots/FF Mastermind
Anti-Muon - 42 Warshade
Ivory Sicarius - 45 Crab Spider
Aber ja, nat�rlich Hans nass ist, er steht unter einem Wasserfall.
Yup, Necrotron is right. the problem is caused by packet loss, but some games are designed in such a way as not to be so badly effected by packet loss.
Unfortunatly, this is a flaw in initial game design, that cannot easily be patched.
I really should do something about this signature.
Was gonna say, although I know their servers are in different places, it doesn't happen on other on-line games I play.
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966
Packet loss explains some out of sync events but not others. I can't see how it explains the situation where some toons belonging to a player are affected and others aren't. It also doesn't explain OOS problems on good connections. (Which is why I asked the OP what the network monitor graph looks like.)
Perhaps the out of sync problem has multiple causes. e.g. packet loss, a bug with some toons, a zoning bug etc
[ QUOTE ]
It is a bug, and that's why they put in the /sync command, but EU side they're completely refusing to admit that.
The bug IS related to lag though and that MIGHT be your ISP, but usually it happens to a lot of players at the same time, no matter what ISP they have.
[/ QUOTE ]
We did not refuse to admit anything. The sync issue is quite clearly not an ISP specific issue (which we have admitted in the past), as it affects customers on a variety of ISP's and both here and in North America.
What was said, at one point, is that based on evidence we had available a specific ISP within the UK accounted for the vast majority of UK customers affected, and that the severity for those customers might be related to something that ISP was doing. Further, we also had evidence that for some customers, configuration changes within their home network helped stabilise the issue for them.
[ QUOTE ]
I had some serious arguments with the tech's and even GR about it about a year ago (methink) edning up in discussions about the ISPs using cheap/free services themselves even though it was confirmed my ISP most definitely didn't fall into that category making me wonder if it's actually NC using a cheap ISP that's using cheap services themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]
This was, I believe, about lag in general that was being experienced at the time. What I explained on the forums at the time had nothing to do with ISPs using cheap/free services (???). I explained that the response received from the CS team was being misinterpreted due to the way it was phrased. Further, I explained what the message was meant to say: that the problem was outside our network and beyond our direct control, but that if you spoke to your ISP they may be able to assist. Whether they do or not, and how they handle your request, is up to them.
Remember here that between you and your ISP, and our servers, there will generally be a few other ISPs through which your traffic will pass. Should any one of those have a problem (eg faulty hardware, a software mis-configuration) that could cause you to receive lag or rubberbanding due to packet loss. The closer the problem ISP is to our servers, the more people who will have their data pass through that ISP and thus be affected.
wasnt the /sync command released to resolve the "ghost town" glitch in the first place? General lag yes, is annoying, but having dealt with technical issues myself in the past, it's very difficult to find the root of these issues.
Yes all the traffic goes through the zone servers, but additionally there have to be common nodes between the ISP and the clients that could be causing issues. My advice is that if the game is unplayable, contact support and make use of the various network connect tools availiable to make sure your computer isn't the source of the issues 
In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide
Wouldn't it be possible to make the game automatically force a /sync each time you load a new area?
Or would it create alot of extra lag. I mean hitting the command on a char who is not out of sync doesn't seem to do anything at all. Would just be a nice quality of life for those of us who have chars affected by it.
Perhaps a toggle command, /synconload 1 which would make that character sync each time they load a zone.
Upgrade the servers so we can be more thatn 100 person in KR without npc´s teleporting and getting 3 minute powerlag please.
[ QUOTE ]
Upgrade the servers so we can be more thatn 100 person in KR without npc´s teleporting and getting 3 minute powerlag please.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's not a server issue, that's a Design issue.
Each zone is designed to host a maximum capacity of player characters. For most zones the hard limit is (I believe) around 100. There is also a soft-cap around the 75 mark, at which point the server automatically creates a second instance of the zone.
Given that the game itself is hard-wired to only have around 100 player characters in a single zone, I don't find it even remotely surprising that inconsequential entities (NPCs) jump around, and it's not a great shock to me that there is power-lag - I remember Old Hami-raids, where the only entities on the entire map were Hami, the DE monsters and the PCs, and that was a NIGHTMARE of lag. Add in NPC entities, inconsequential particulates (those floating paper bags, letters out of mailboxes, falling leaves and the billion and one other things in the zone), and you have a recipe for lag.
The best hint I can give for a situation like that is switch off all names. It helps.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.* we were over 200 in kr so your info is false
I remember in the 1st year of CoX being live and the Paragon Dance Parties that there were on occasions 2 copies of POcket D... one with around 200 people in it, and another with 50 or so.
[ QUOTE ]
we were over 200 in kr so your info is false
[/ QUOTE ]
Right, so... because I don't happen to know the precise numbers involved, the rest of my information is false?
Fact 1) Zones have a hard cap, over which the number of player characters in the zone may not increase. This number can vary between zones. (If you don't believe me, try taking 200 heroes into the Hive.)
Fact 2) Zones have a soft cap, over which the server creates a new instance of the zone. This soft cap can vary between zones.
Fact 3) The more entities the server has to control or keep track of, the more likely lag is to become an issue.
Fact 4) City zones have a number of extraneous entities that do not exist in some zones that are specifically designed to have large numbers of Player Characters in them.
Fact 5) One of the most significant causes of image-lag is that the client-side graphics card is trying to do too many things at once. Switching off all names actually makes a huge difference to this.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
[ QUOTE ]
I remember in the 1st year of CoX being live and the Paragon Dance Parties that there were on occasions 2 copies of POcket D... one with around 200 people in it, and another with 50 or so.
[/ QUOTE ]
When CoX released in US 2004, we had over 10 Atlas Park instances and 8 galaxy city ones
[ QUOTE ]
I remember in the 1st year of CoX being live and the Paragon Dance Parties that there were on occasions 2 copies of POcket D... one with around 200 people in it, and another with 50 or so.
[/ QUOTE ]
I presume you mean 2 copies of PDP and not Pocket D as the latter didn't exist for a couple of years after that at which point PDP became inaccessible. I believe it does still exist howevever and if you are logged out in it you will still be able to admire the carnage of the morning after the night before.
I think the hard cap may have been about 500 originally but got reduced later.
Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant
[ QUOTE ]
wasnt the /sync command released to resolve the "ghost town" glitch in the first place?
[/ QUOTE ]
It was indeed.
[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't it be possible to make the game automatically force a /sync each time you load a new area?
[/ QUOTE ]
It does, however for some people it doesn't appear to work properly.
guess i am some people then!
[ QUOTE ]
guess i am some people then!
[/ QUOTE ]
Always knew you were different
Happy to be on Defiant.
Global name @mereman
Member of P.E.R.C. Representing Defiant
Alts http://cit.cohtitan.com/profile/4488
CoH faces http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/mereman
Never had a problem that /sync couldn't fix... 'til last night. Just about DID MY HEAD IN. Rubberbanding, powerlag, "ghost towning"... you name it, I had it. Internet was chugging along nicely, and I have a quadcore processor, 4 gig of RAM, XP and an 8800 GTX. Fumin', so I was.
And then I switched to CoV, after trying umpteen different toons blueside, and all was well.
NOT AMUSED. My teammates had no such issues. I was most perplexed.
I have been having really bad issues with syncing lately, and had to actually bind /sync as it happens so much.i.e. it can take me 5 or 6 attempts to get off a boat, leave the station etc.
Now the US has this http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....v=#Post13032545 so I fail to see how it can be my ISP as the tech support guys said after numerous tests.
That and it never happens on other games either.
I presume the US has different routing to us so maybe something should be sorted out as it never used to do this.
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966