My first PB, and confused, help please

Hey i just got the epics tday (woo)
i started a PB, but i got really confused on how to build it.

I want to go mainly for a Form based PB as i really like shape shifts, but with all the other poers i dont know what to take, as i dont think ill be using the human form very much at all.

does anyone have any advice of how i could choose, maybe a sort of backup type human form or something??

pluss the inability to use other powers in the forms, does that include everything appart from the powers you get when shifted, so it would be better to choose power set powers for the human form.

so pleease help, because i dont like playing unless ive planned out my build before, or i always much it up loads =S

thanx


Ps: if anyone has an exemplar nova/dwarf PB build i would be thrilled to see it =)

---

If you're not intending to use human form a lot then ignore stamina as it won't carry over to the forms, instead ensure you slot the forms for end mod, also generally avoid toggles for the same reason - click powers will carry over however so can buff you in the forms for a short time.

---

Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant

so click powers, which ones is it all the click powers you can get from the 2 powersets minus the attacks, or does it include pool powers as well??

---

You will want Hasten from the pools, a nice long duration click power.

Otherwise, choose powers that will be useful without additional slotting, so you can use the slots in human and dwarf form powers.

Grab the two self heals, the self rez, Conserve power, Build Up, the heal other power and Photon Seekers.

---

I really should do something about this signature.

First of all congrats on gaining the epics

To be honest you will find the tri form very fun at early levels, in my experience however, the human form is quite useful at later levels.

I know you said you like to plan your builds before hand, but bear in mind issue 13 is coming with the dual build option, so you could possibly have your tri form on one and all human on another.

Just experiment and have fun, if you want anymore help/advice pm me in game @stryke...there are three guys on our sg who are very experienced on the Kheld AT and we would be happy to help.

---

Art of War Co-Leader - Union *Global@Warscythe*



"The box said Windows Vista or better - so I installed Linux"

Let me add my congratulations to Stryke's. You may notice I haven't bothered to register on here before now, but I do browse... mostly the US forums, but they don't let me register there. *chuckles* Still, there're good folk here, so I'm glad to join the throng.

That being said, I DO have a bit of experience playing a Peacebringer (Warshade having proven to be a bit less "my style.")

I play all-human, and have done since I respec'd around level 12. I found my survivability increased, and while my damage dropped somewhat, the availability of slots in shields and human-form attacks softened the blow drastically. Moreover on a nicely-arranged team I can deal massive damage and have massive resists, thanks to our inherent. I really feel the difference when I solo. A teamed Kheldian can be a mighty and awesome thing indeed...

As it stands I now have a level 44 PB, humanform, who can tank, blast, and scrap like a beast. Throw in bonuses from team-mates, and I'm potentially all but unstoppable, with massive damage. The slots and powers that being human-only freed up made all the difference, late-game. I even have a fun and fancy (not to mention effective) heal! It's Incandescent Strike and Radiant Strike that really sell a human-form PB mid-game, and it's those two with Stamina, Hasten, Swift, the heals, the shields, Light Form, Photon Seekers, Dawn Strike, Build Up, Solar Flare... etc. that sell it late game.

I love my Peacebringer. Solarius is easily my favourite toon so far, and with a team, he's just a natural disaster. In a good way.

But hey, just my two cents. It just always nettled me somewhat when over on the US forums several of the more vocal Kheldian players were always implying (when they weren't saying it flat-out) that tri-form was the only "proper" way to play a Kheldian up to their potential. From what I hear, that may be the case for a Warshade, but for a PB it's far from true.

So aye, just my two cents.

Sol

---

[ QUOTE ]
Solar Flare

[/ QUOTE ]Ewwwwww

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Solar Flare

[/ QUOTE ]Ewwwwww

[/ QUOTE ]

*shakes head* May you be forgiven, sir...

---

[ QUOTE ]
It just always nettled me somewhat when over on the US forums several of the more vocal Kheldian players were always implying (when they weren't saying it flat-out) that tri-form was the only "proper" way to play a Kheldian up to their potential.

[/ QUOTE ]
I hate not being allowed on the US forums, there is so much I want to correct them on!

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Solar Flare

[/ QUOTE ]Ewwwwww

[/ QUOTE ]

My (slotted) solar flare does 114pt of energy damage PBAoE, with the about 100% minimum damage buff i get from a combination of Assault + Cosmic balance im up in over 200pts to everything around me.
A team with members that can damage buff im up in 200% buff, and sometimes im even running around at my cap at 300%.
What you think of as "knockback to lts and bosses" im thinking of "killing of minions" pretty damn quick.
The KB is 4-5 seconds damage mitigation where the survivors cant hurt the members of the team.
And then we can start discussing the defense debuff..

---

UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender

Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz

"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.

KB is mitigation with overall team damage output decrease because radial KB ruins AoEs. And, well, if that damage was meant to impress me... I have a Warshade.

But, well, I'm known to be a vehement anti-knockback nazi anyway, so it might just be me. I'd just prefer the PB did something else other than scatter the spawn for some 200 damage.

---

Sadly I have to agree with Col_Blitzkrieger on this one, especially when you consider that 200 damage is what you could be doing in Nova form without scattering them all over the map, and then 1 seconds later could be following up with another 150 damage.

KB is great mitigation when solo, but on any half good team it just tends to slow things down.

Just be careful the first time you solar flare around a footstomping brute and knock everything out of his footstomp range

---

*chuckles* While I take your points, I still find that when it comes to damage, I'll take all the AoE I can eat, particularly on big teams. If I'm ever tanking, it serves as a good way of grabbing aggro, and it's also good mitigation... and with a bit of care and positioning, KB becomes a very useful tool indeed.

Of course, this is no different to many powers in the game; use it right and it's awesome, use it wrong and it's either useless or disastrous. KB just happens to be one of the tougher ones to use right, and it's VERY obvious when you get it wrong. *chuckles*

Concept-wise, nothing screams "RAW POWER" to me like sending my enemies pinwheeling around the room with a blow.

Just my two cents.

---

[ QUOTE ]
KB is mitigation with overall team damage output decrease because radial KB ruins AoEs. And, well, if that damage was meant to impress me... I have a Warshade.


[/ QUOTE ]Wasnt meant to impress you, just wanted to add some statistical evidence as to why after a Solar flare, there might be no NEED for those AoEs. Or do you consider a 200 damage plus a "weak" AoE?
For the Dwarf form, Its Flare is its most useful tool for gathering aggro in bigger mobs while waiting for Antagonize to cycle.
[ QUOTE ]

But, well, I'm known to be a vehement anti-knockback nazi anyway, so it might just be me. I'd just prefer the PB did something else other than scatter the spawn for some 200 damage.

[/ QUOTE ]

YOu make it sound like a bad thing. That spawn will have its defense debuffed, unable to do any damage for several seconds, and assuming the tank has any aggro creating tools like an aura or have used taunt, will run straight back towards the tank as theyre still aggroed to him.

to say "DO something better" just shows ignorance as Solar Flare IS one of the better attacks. The alternatives (for my build) are the two ranged attacks it shares with the Nova. One of which does KB as well, and less damage, the other a pathetic cone attack.

---

UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender

Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz

"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, this is no different to many powers in the game; use it right and it's awesome, use it wrong and it's either useless or disastrous. KB just happens to be one of the tougher ones to use right, and it's VERY obvious when you get it wrong. *chuckles*

[/ QUOTE ]This is the real key. Used right, with due consideration for the powers of your team mates KB can be great.
KB isn't bad, it's the n00bs who use it without consideration for their team that give it a bad name.

---

[ QUOTE ]
That spawn will have its defense debuffed, unable to do any damage for several seconds, and assuming the tank has any aggro creating tools like an aura or have used taunt, will run straight back towards the tank as theyre still aggroed to him.

[/ QUOTE ]
The point you have missed though is that if you did that in the middle of a spawn you would be preventing those with the really big damage AoE's from killing them for the few seconds it takes to get up and go back to the tank.

Mitigation is good on low damage teams or where you have lots of people with only single target attacks, but if you had say a fire blaster and a WS in Nova form behind you then you would have cost your team speed by picking that attack over another attack (And I won't mention that if you have a tank you would be better off in nova form).

If you use that KB on a side mob or avoid the main cluster then thats fine, but you seem to be claiming that using it in the middle of a mob isn't a bad thing.

---

[ QUOTE ]
For the Dwarf form, Its Flare is its most useful tool for gathering aggro in bigger mobs while waiting for Antagonize to cycle.

[/ QUOTE ]I never said White Dwarf Flare is bad.

200 damage will not kill an even con minion, so my point still stands that you -will- need more blastyness to kill the spawn after a Solar Flare. It'll deal about half its HP worth of damage if it has zero resistance to Energy. I suppose since you're not the only one dealing damage, if the other team members manage to throw in some AoEs before you stomp, you might just finish them off with it, depending on timing. But then there's a bunch of Lieutenants and Bosses scattered to the four winds, outside of the tank's taunt aura (which, depending on powerset, may reduce his survivability versus any ranged attacks the mobs could use - and there are almost no mobs in the game without ranged attacks). This is even worse in PUGs where you lack the subconcious combat choreography you would have with people who you team with regularly, which may result in the melee toons getting downright confused, which further slows things down. Honestly, it's not even the damage which I'm putting down, it's the radial knockback. Sure, it's fun for soloing, but on teams it's a nightmare. Why do you think nobody* takes Hand Clap or Lightning Clap? Or why nobody* slots Foot Stomp for Knockback?

I'll probably get jumped for saying this by someone who thinks otherwise, but with proper slotting, the -Defense in the attacks is negligible for the team unless you're fighting mobs with significant defense buffs, such as Nemesis soldiers or Paragon Protectors.

You say Solar Flare is "one of the better attacks"; some people, including myself, would state the opposite. In the end, this is another pro-KB versus anti-KB debate, which can never be solved. At least the ranged blasts don't do radial knockback, so they aren't as bad. And yes, KB in general is bad on a PUG.

Haven't I seen this debate in another thread, though? Ah, right here it is: Clicky



*(I'm well aware that somebody out there has done these things, but somebody out there has probably also gotten a petless Ninja/Poison Blastermind to 50, so what can you say.)

---

As I said in another thread, I dislike Solar Flare. Used to have it, respeced it out for the ranged aoe power, since issue 13 buffed it's damage to be near the level of Solar Flare. The KB can be useful solo, but it is a liability in teams, but my real problem was the need to be on the ground to use it, I found I was doing a lot of hover fighting on my human for PB.

---

I really should do something about this signature.

[ QUOTE ]

KB is great mitigation when solo, but on any half good team it just tends to slow things down.

Just be careful the first time you solar flare around a footstomping brute and knock everything out of his footstomp range

[/ QUOTE ]
And any really good team will have learnt to cope with it and to react accordingly. Storm defenders and controllers might have a hard time getting a PuG of newbies because they are so strongly associated with knockback. Experienced players dont mind, because they know how to handle the chaos and to use it in their own favor.

This might sound arrogant, but if there are team leaders out there who would kick you for using Knockbacks, I would counter with if they cant handle a little knockback, then theyre clearly not up to my standards and I'd kick them in return.

Gale is a completely different animal however and anyone using it after level 10 should not only be kicked but taken out and shot.

But the colonel is right, this has taken a turn into a "KB" "anti KB" debate.

---

UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender

Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz

"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

KB is great mitigation when solo, but on any half good team it just tends to slow things down.

Just be careful the first time you solar flare around a footstomping brute and knock everything out of his footstomp range

[/ QUOTE ]
And any really good team will have learnt to cope with it and to react accordingly. Storm defenders and controllers might have a hard time getting a PuG of newbies because they are so strongly associated with knockback. Experienced players dont mind, because they know how to handle the chaos and to use it in their own favor.

This might sound arrogant, but if there are team leaders out there who would kick you for using Knockbacks, I would counter with if they cant handle a little knockback, then theyre clearly not up to my standards and I'd kick them in return.

Gale is a completely different animal however and anyone using it after level 10 should not only be kicked but taken out and shot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thou shalt not take the name of Gale in vain (seriously, it can be really handy)

I struggle to see a situation where a PBAOE Knockback damaging power is consistantly useful. Even in Hurricane the knockback isn't handy at all even if you are playing Meatgrinder (ie pushing the enemies back into the center for the tank), its the Repel that's more useful.

Even on my Warshades nuke the knockback is a pain since although everything will be dead their lovely Endurance filled corpses are now scattered around the place making it difficult to feed off them.

At least with Nova form blasts you can make the knockback useful by floating above them and turning it into knockdown.

---

[ QUOTE ]

If you use that KB on a side mob or avoid the main cluster then thats fine, but you seem to be claiming that using it in the middle of a mob isn't a bad thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

in the middle, thats where the tank/brute hangs out, so naturally i flare from a slightly "off" position.

indoors where the mobs becomes nice wall ornaments, positioning is less of an issue and being more center will not mess it up to bad.

---

UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender

Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz

"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.

[ QUOTE ]
At least with Nova form blasts you can make the knockback useful by floating above them and turning it into knockdown.

[/ QUOTE ]Human Form Peacebringers can (and, in my grumpy elitist opinion, should!) do this with Combat Flight, too.

Gale is a different argument entirely because knockback/repel is one of the reasons you'd pick Storm Summoning for. Half of the powerset is based around positional management of mobs, herdicaning them into corners before laying on the freezing rain and Galing them back in there if they slowly start creeping out of the 'cane repel; or, hovering above the battle using Gale as a ghetto knockdown. It's a ranged cone, it's not radial. I used to hate all KB with a passion, but now it's just things like Solar Flare, Hand Clap and Lightning Clap that irk me.
And some nukes. But only if it's a badly used nuke. You know the ones. Run into full-HP spawn, nuke, often even forgetting Aim/BU. Result is a scattered spawn. Sigh.

I'm gonna go troll another thread for a while before I derail this thread, sorry. <.< >.>;

Warshades ftw!




(As you may notice from my sig, I have... good reasons for hating scattered mobs. My main is a Brute - melee, and with a damage aura and lots of AoE. Then there's my Crab, another toon based on killing tightly-packed spawns with AoEs and cones. Thugs MM, lots of cone DoTs... Scrapper built around being a PBAoE machine... And a Warshade, half of whose powers require a tight cluster of enemies next to him to work well. Others who like different characters and playstyles might love the KB, but be considerate of people like us! )

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At least with Nova form blasts you can make the knockback useful by floating above them and turning it into knockdown.

[/ QUOTE ]Human Form peacebringers can (and, in my grumpy elitist opinion, should!) do this with Combat Flight, too.


[/ QUOTE ]

edited for.. like.. you know.. 'shades dont get combat flight..

---

UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender

Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz

"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.

D'oh, I need my coffee.

Though I do the same with Dark Nova's Detonation in Nova Form anyway. >>

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At least with Nova form blasts you can make the knockback useful by floating above them and turning it into knockdown.

[/ QUOTE ]Human Form peacebringers can (and, in my grumpy elitist opinion, should!) do this with Combat Flight, too.


[/ QUOTE ]

edited for.. like.. you know.. 'shades dont get combat flight..

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, which is why I never take Dark Detenation on a Shade, and by the same token would avoid the PBAOE of Solar Flare. Hell I avoid using Grav Emittion on most teams because of the knockback. Even when it's into walls they'll tend to end up in a long line against the wall. When I do use it it's generally to knock stragglers back into the middle of the ruck (or add a fresh spawn in if I'm going through Eclipselock ).

I'd feel cheated if I could only use my AOE Damaging power in such a way that it will only hit some of the enemies, to keep from scattering them all around the shop.

---