If you thought the Ahs rates are bad now
By
CactusBrawler,
Posted on: 2008-11-25 08:25 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
That has to be the dumbest, most ill-thought-out article I've seen on the subject.
It's quite obvious how you tax such income, and it would only affect people stupid enough to become involved in Real Money Transactions.
Would make the Asian market squirm, I guess, and make some aspects of some more Western games an issue.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Nah, this opens great opportunities 
Yet, he's rather stupid making Second Life as example, as that game is based on RL <-> virtual exchanges, virtual items represent a reallife value, unlike any other MMO.
If you tax gold-buying, you basicly legalise this. (a service or item exchange is base for taxing). Now it is not allowed, ban is result. Leave it that way, simple.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
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That has to be the dumbest, most ill-thought-out article I've seen on the subject.
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How do we know this isn't some lame Jack Thompson plot for revenge? By notifying our local government that there could be a potential gold mine in virtual(/imaginary) currency? :P
If this goes wrong, and we get taxed for simply playing games....well, lets jsut say Parliament will be getting a cricket bat to the head in the forseeable future...
That said, it would be nice not to ever have to get those annoying emails offering Inf for cash. Ever again =]
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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That has to be the dumbest, most ill-thought-out article I've seen on the subject.
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That's the BBC for you these days though. Read it earlier and burst out laughing, then tried to explain what was so funny to my non games playing colleagues (who, just to make things worse, completely agreed with the article - "We should tax those saddos playing games" etc. etc.)
So it was probably tailored well for its intended audience then 
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
Well, taxing actual, real-world transactions (money for gold) isn't really a problem. That's ok with me, just like any other service or product. I'm actually FOR it. It's a service like any other, so pay up gold farmers!
Selling gold in wow isn't really illegal, it's against the game rules (e.g. EULA) so that's not really a problem either.
If they, however where to put taxes on what you earn in-game according to some "current average real money prices" that would be indeed hilarious. I think I'd get away by saying I don't really earn the inf, I'm after all a villain, so f'coz I'm stealing it, not really earning it. Would still be rather bad for that last inf badge...
Still strange how many hillarous, stupid ideas get past the "dumb" filter before they're stopped. In Sweden they're currently outsourcing some of the work the police is supposed to do to private companies. Orwell, roll over!
Hmmm... do you think they'll start taxing Monopoly games?
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Hmmm... do you think they'll start taxing Monopoly games?
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No, because that would require someone with rational thought implementing the plan.
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
I can't really see why people are getting on the high horse about this. If I read correctly, then it won't affect you unless you do real money trading.
Also, RMT prices are insane, IMHO. As I like to say, if you trade with real money and virtuall money, the only loser is yourself. The seller just gets his cold, hard cash ready to spend it on whatever he likes, probably another MMO, then rack up the cash on that, buy another until he has dominated all the MMOs and now decides to buy a mansion.
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I can't really see why people are getting on the high horse about this. If I read correctly, then it won't affect you unless you do real money trading.
Also, RMT prices are insane, IMHO. As I like to say, if you trade with real money and virtuall money, the only loser is yourself. The seller just gets his cold, hard cash ready to spend it on whatever he likes, probably another MMO, then rack up the cash on that, buy another until he has dominated all the MMOs and now decides to buy a mansion.
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Neither of those statements are true.
The article stated that it's difficult to track virtual <-> real world transactions so therefore tax all transactions is the simplest and most effective way to deal with that problem. So to take Second Life as an example, you currently buy something for $L100 ( 100 Linden Dollars ) but in the future you might have to buy it for $L125 because of a governmental tax. Those of us who play Second Life in the EU already pay VAT on our subscriptions.
As for existing in many virtual worlds with Real World Economies, (Entropia, Second Life etc) although they are notionally "free" to play to play, to get the best out of them does require some level of financial input to get the best out of them. It's comparable in some ways to your subscription to CoX but fluctuates depending on how much "stuff" you have. Such transactions from £Sterling to $Lindens are already taxed - several times over if you think about it. I pay VAT on my transactions, I also pay PayPal or my bank to transfer funds to and from my account - and those funds are taxable too. If I make a vast fortune (it is theoretically possible and some people do make a comfortable living from virtual environments) in world, translate those funds into £ in my bank, I then would need to declare those funds as taxable income and pay whatever the going taxable rate is.
However with closed systems such as CoX etc I cannot see how those transactions can be taxed. Even if they were taxed the revenue collected couldn't actually be redeemed in any way.
Thelonious Monk
I don't understand. You declare all money you make and the government taxes these earnings. A company (or person) selling virtual items for large overall sums is making money, which should be declared. And then taxed. And if you don't tell your government where this big pile of money is coming from, it's tax evasion, and they take all your big pile.
Why do we need different and special rules? We've got them already. Get cracking on catching the people earning and not declaring instead. Like they said, it's easy to track it. Easier than a small army of rogue builders who when questioned all didn't see nuffin' guv'nor, anyway.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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I can't really see why people are getting on the high horse about this. If I read correctly, then it won't affect you unless you do real money trading.
Also, RMT prices are insane, IMHO. As I like to say, if you trade with real money and virtuall money, the only loser is yourself. The seller just gets his cold, hard cash ready to spend it on whatever he likes, probably another MMO, then rack up the cash on that, buy another until he has dominated all the MMOs and now decides to buy a mansion.
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I don't RMT as I play games to have fun, but I if I worked full time and didn't have the time to play as much I probably would though not I might stress in CoH which due to the ease of gaining Inf (earned 50 million in a couple of hours the other night). There is a new 'must have' mount in WoW that costs 20,000 Gold...
And that means that some people will do the RMT thing because they want to fit in. To that extent its no different from buying a flash car... though robbing the bank first is perhaps more in line...
Anyway if the government tries to tax virtual economies only real way of doing it will be to charge the economy owner, eg the games owner who will pass said tax onto the gamer through subs.
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How do we know this isn't some lame Jack Thompson plot for revenge?
[/ QUOTE ]Because not everything is a Jack Thompson plot 
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
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I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Because not everything is a Jack Thompson plot
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That's right. It's all a Nemesis plot.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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Because not everything is a Jack Thompson plot
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That's right. It's all a Nemesis plot.
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Jack Thompson is Nemesis?
...does explain that hairstyle, mind, but he looks a lot more like Dr. Aeon.
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
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I don't understand. You declare all money you make and the government taxes these earnings. A company (or person) selling virtual items for large overall sums is making money, which should be declared. And then taxed. And if you don't tell your government where this big pile of money is coming from, it's tax evasion, and they take all your big pile.
Why do we need different and special rules? We've got them already. Get cracking on catching the people earning and not declaring instead. Like they said, it's easy to track it. Easier than a small army of rogue builders who when questioned all didn't see nuffin' guv'nor, anyway.
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I think that's the point, people haven't been declaring the money they make from games.
Average Joe Blogs as well as the companies.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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There is a new 'must have' mount in WoW that costs 20,000 Gold...
And that means that some people will do the RMT thing because they want to fit in.
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Considering the relative value of gold (ie; how much you earn for doing stuff) in WoW at that level, not many.
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I think that's the point, people haven't been declaring the money they make from games.
Average Joe Blogs as well as the companies.
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So like I said. What's all the claptrap about special treatment? How about instead the government does does its ******* job and catches people evading tax. It shouldn't even be newsworthy.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
To the BBC, it's newsworthy if it makes gamers look bad.
Try this one on for size: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7746471.stm
Apparently, I'm a gaming addict. I spend more than 4 hours a day playing. And I need to blame my parents because I'm not social enough.
Some people need to look at private clinics and consider how they make their money before filing reports based on their input...
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Try this one on for size: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7746471.stm
Apparently, I'm a gaming addict.
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Umm... That article actually says you're not an addict.
Try again. The article says that traditional methods of dealing with gameing 'addiction' don't work for most gamers because the habit is not linked to a traditional model for addiction. It says that I have a 'social problem,' and that I am a 'compulsive gamer.'
If also says that it's a problem that I spend my evenings playing a computer game, otherwise they would not be talking about 'finding solutions'
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By offering compulsive gamers a place where they feel accepted and where their voice will be heard, the clinic has found that the vast majority have been able to leave gaming behind and rebuild their lives.
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I don't need my life rebuilding. I don't compulisvely game. And I find roleplaying in an MMO rather more social than going down the pub, drinking too excess and throwing up in the gutter on the way home.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
I'd be interested to know what these people do in their evenings. I'm willing to be 90% of them would be watching TV. Personally I find playing a computer game much more interesting than most of the [censored] on TV, which is why I play on the computer rather than watch TV.
I spend my evenings chatting to friends on my IRC server or MSN, Roleplaying in CoH, and chatting to the wife. I don't actually watch TV anymore, except for Top Gear on Sunday evening...
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Read this
Taxing online Games (from BBC)
What will they do with all that INF?