Merits for Story Arcs
By
CactusBrawler,
Posted on: 2008-11-10 06:45 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Probably very wise.
Pretty soon, purples will be what is farmed for, so the farmers will be after inf, and killing as many level 50 mobs as possible, not merits.
I really should do something about this signature.
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It should level the prices out. At least that's the theory. Whatver is expensive in the AH, people will choose with merits, and demand will dry up.
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Sorry, still unclear what they will be achieving with that. As I said, I'd understand the change for several reasons, such as encourage teaming or making someone's desired build achieved in less time (without farming that is), but can't see what will they achieve by raising prices on recipes such as Trap of the Hunter (just as an example). No doubt Trap of the Hunter or Pacing of the Turtle may have amazing set bonuses and all that, but I think most people with Immobilize powers will go for a cheaper set rather than paying 10 - 15 mill by a Trap of the Hunter (just my opinion btw).
It won't equilise at that.
They will probably level at 10-100 thousand per pop.
With purples from 50 million upwards.
I really should do something about this signature.
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It won't equilise at that.
They will probably level at 10-100 thousand per pop.
With purples from 50 million upwards.
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Well, thats jsut fething idiotic, in my opinion... Rare is one thing, ludicrous is just too far.
And the idea above of soloing for gain, teaming for fun..well, yes, teams should be fun, but that seems far too skewed, and a bit unfair in places. What about ATs that struggle to solo? Did they 'make a wrong choice', if they can't solo? That then is surely dictating how people will have to play, if they want to get anywhere the rarer stuff.
Humm 
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Soloing for gain will only be worthwhile at level 50, and then you will still need 7 people to fill, so as to max out the number of mobs in the mission. Purple IOs will be the only thing of significant value to the market.
I really should do something about this signature.
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They will probably level at 10-100 thousand per pop.
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That would be good, really good but, that will kill Purples as a mean to get some desired Pool C and D recipes, which was another way, you are PuGing doing some lvl 50 foe missions, get a lucky purple and voilà, suddenly you can purchase (or close to) your Numina's Convalescence Unique.
Now, once the current supply of them in AH runs off because people get them through merits, by selling a purple you will be able to purchase a good percenteage of your planned build which had non C/D Pool recipes, now all you have to do is 3 Quarterfield TF's or 36 Katie Hannon TF's (or whatever in between) to get your C/D Pool recipe, make it times as many C/D Pool recipes you need (depending of course of their value, not all them are 250 merits)...
Question is, does this system make achieving your desired build a longer or a shorter grind?
Also, the amount of merits gained through Story Arcs might be unconsequential to a certain extent, if you finish a LGTF and end up with 35 merits and let's say you had 11 from completing a few story arcs, next move to get your Karma KB (sorry for recurring to examples all the time) next time you team you'll prefer your story arc done or solo it until you get the remaining merits, so back to square one, many things might be achieved with this system, encouraging or facilitating teaming seems not to be one of them as wasn't the recipe/salvage drop rate in teams, this goes one step forward on same way.
The best way in my opinion to really make Story Arc Merits almost totally meaningless to the point where nobody will care on a team whose story arc is being done, would be making C and D pool recipes available by less merits, let's say 5 or 6 mixed TF's being able to grant you any recipe you wish.
I don't think 5 Katie Hannon runs should grant you any recipe, but 36 are also too many and my personal opinion is that taking down the merits required for recipes would not only help everyone (specially casual players) to achieve their build less painfully but would also make the issues that may arise on teams from story arc merits totally meaningless.
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Can you see many people grinding merits for a, let's say LotG 7.5% for selling it afterwards at a low price?
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No, people will tend to buy what just want they want for themselves with merits, killing demand for the rare recipes.
At which point, if you want something to sell, you are better off taking a 25 merit gamble, since the resale value of other pool C/D recipes, like trap of the hunter, will have gone up.
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I think you got that completely wrong, i dont think merits will effect prices 1 jot. Especially the expensive ones.
Because people will always want things now, and i doubt anyones saving merrits to get recipes to sell so supply aint going up.
I think things will sail along as they are with this whole merrit thing just collecting away in the background, its an add on, not a complete change.
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They were supposed to make it easier to get Special recipes. Yes, they are meant to be rarer than most, but that SHOULDNT mean having to spend a stupidly long time simply grinding jsut to get one part of a set that you want. And then you need to do it again.
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Why should'nt they be hard to get? You dont NEED them, if you want them, put in the effort.
See, I disagree with that, they might not be needed for certain things/people, in my case some chars need them for several reasons, some of them for concept, some of them to do things they couldn't do with certain enhancements.
If the Invention System not being needed at all is still a valid argument for the devs, they should start thinking about removing it. For good or bad they gave us an ingame economy and a grind on a game where the end content is start anew with a different character, add now dual builds to the equation, the grind can be massive.
Let's put it this way, if you want a high end car you have to be ready to spend more money and maybe do far more overtime than if you want a medium range one, but this is a game, getting upgrades should not be too easy to make people lose interest fast, but within this particular game's features, devs shouldn't either go too far on that.
Now i think inventions gave lvl 50s a well needed something to do, because after 20 odd lvl 50s not everyone can be arsed to keep rolling new chars.
And new power sets are not new content, its still the same old grind.
Obviously not all your chars are going to be high end, but at least its a goal for the ones that are.
As for concept reasons, well adapt your concept or get grinding 
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As for concept reasons, well adapt your concept or get grinding
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Indeed, I just find annoying Positron saying grind is being reduced to find out later that it's not true, in fact the opposite
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I just find annoying Positron saying grins is being reduced to find out later that it's not true, in fact the opposite
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That's good - grinning is better than frowning.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Awesome, where is an oxygen policeman when you need one?
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Awesome, where is an oxygen policeman when you need one?
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Taking a breather, perhaps?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Awesome, where is an oxygen policeman when you need one?
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Taking a breather, perhaps?
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*Badum-tish*
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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As for concept reasons, well adapt your concept or get grinding
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Indeed, I just find annoying Positron saying grind is being reduced to find out later that it's not true, in fact the opposite
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It does feel like a huge letdown, even before testing (which, yes, might prove all of us wrong). If it was meant to make builds a bit less impossible, then does the opposite...well.
...
I blame Nemesis -nods-
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I for one see the Auction house as something of a gambling venue and believe that there should be many ways of avoiding without waiting a lifetime for some particular recipe to come along.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I think you got that completely wrong, i dont think merits will effect prices 1 jot. Especially the expensive ones.
Because people will always want things now, and i doubt anyones saving merrits to get recipes to sell so supply aint going up.
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That's exactly why prices will fall. Most players don't go around with 50 million inf in thier back pockets, so "now" simply isn't an option. It becomes "as quickly as possible", and it is a lot quicker (and possibly more fun) to do a couple of Task Forces than to grind 50 million inf.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Question is, does this system make achieving your desired build a longer or a shorter grind?
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The recipes for you build should be much quicker, if you don't include any Purples. a Purpled build will take a lot longer.
However, the thing you really need to worry about is the price of salvage.
The changes to bases mean salvage racks can now hold 30 pieces of invention salvage. This means a lot of players will dump excess salvage in thier base, rather than on the market. There will also be a proliferation of single player bases containing nothing but salvage racks.
I really should do something about this signature.
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The recipes for you build should be much quicker, if you don't include any Purples. a Purpled build will take a lot longer.
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Can't see how but I really hope so since I play as if purple sets didn't exist (one has to draw a line somewhere).
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However, the thing you really need to worry about is the price of salvage.
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Hmmm didn't rare salvage cost 30 merits? I'm sure I've read it somewhere, will try to get a link when I wake up.
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Question is, does this system make achieving your desired build a longer or a shorter grind?
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The recipes for you build should be much quicker, if you don't include any Purples. a Purpled build will take a lot longer.
However, the thing you really need to worry about is the price of salvage.
The changes to bases mean salvage racks can now hold 30 pieces of invention salvage. This means a lot of players will dump excess salvage in thier base, rather than on the market. There will also be a proliferation of single player bases containing nothing but salvage racks.
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God knows how you came to that conclusion. People will still sell salvage the way they do now.
And if they do dump 30 pieces of common salvage (cos lets be honest, no one is dumping rare salvage in the base for it to be stolen) that is going to effect salvage prices how?
Something to consider is that, before the Merit system, you could only get pool C/D recipes doing trials and TFs. But now... you are theoretically able to get them without doing TFs (yeah, I know...)
All this talk about Arc completing Merit bonus has made me remember reading somewhere that you can also get Merits defeating GMs and doing raids. Maybe this will make the Rikti Ship Raid even more popular and raiding Hamidon a thing to consider again.
And if they give us Merits for defeating AVs (which I think they don't) I can see the Statesman TF becoming even more popular...
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I think you got that completely wrong, i dont think merits will effect prices 1 jot. Especially the expensive ones.
Because people will always want things now, and i doubt anyones saving merrits to get recipes to sell so supply aint going up.
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That's exactly why prices will fall. Most players don't go around with 50 million inf in thier back pockets, so "now" simply isn't an option. It becomes "as quickly as possible", and it is a lot quicker (and possibly more fun) to do a couple of Task Forces than to grind 50 million inf.
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Oh well we will have to agree to disagree there, i think you got that completely wrong.
All these merrits will be is an added bonus that eventually add up to a decent recipe, people will carry on buying recipes the same way they do now in my opinion.
These merrits are not going to cause a sudden glut of rares on the market. People will just sell drops as usual, i cant see many saving merrits to sell a recipe, and if they do it will be so few as wont matter.
Again just my guess that of course.
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Something to consider is that, before the Merit system, you could only get pool C/D recipes doing trials and TFs. But now... you are theoretically able to get them without doing TFs (yeah, I know...)
All this talk about Arc completing Merit bonus has made me remember reading somewhere that you can also get Merits defeating GMs and doing raids. Maybe this will make the Rikti Ship Raid even more popular and raiding Hamidon a thing to consider again.
And if they give us Merits for defeating AVs (which I think they don't) I can see the Statesman TF becoming even more popular...
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Agreed on the rikti raids, not sure on Hamidon, seems a lot of work to tackle by raid leader and rikti ship raids allow more people in and can be done much easier.
STF will be probably the main HO supply in the market.
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All these merrits will be is an added bonus that eventually add up to a decent recipe, people will carry on buying recipes the same way they do now in my opinion.
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Not sure on taht one once the existing C/D Pool recipe supply dries out in AH, unless most people prefer to go the random way and sell what they don't need. Can't see many people grinding TF's for a LoTG to sell it afterwards.
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The thing for me is that I don't know what the devs are exactly trying to achieve by the merit system overall. Positron's initial announcement mentioned something along the lines of avoiding to grind a huge number of TF's to get a recipe. The way this is going to be implemented, that statement has gone the opposite extreme, you need to do quite a few more TF's to get the desired recipe (or fewer TF's but same amount of hours, time is what I count here since I don't mind doing as many TF's as possible, but I don't have all the time I'd like to have to do so).
If they wanted to encourage players to do other things than radio missions, Story Arc Merits just for Story Arc owner are not the best solution. If they wanted some kind of help to casual players who can't dedicate two hours for a TF (not that I'd pay monthly for a game if I can't sit at it two hours at least once or twice a week), they have failed miserably since such players who have, let's say 1 hour tops, they could get a rare recipe via Katie Hannon / Hess / Moonfire and now they won't be able to. I also suspect a casual player who can't dedicate time enough to do a TF won't probably be much fussed about the invention system overall.
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^ This. This is what has been bugging me and yet I haven't been abel to put onto paper (thanks for the words, or close as)
They were supposed to make it easier to get Special recipes. Yes, they are meant to be rarer than most, but that SHOULDNT mean having to spend a stupidly long time simply grinding jsut to get one part of a set that you want. And then you need to do it again.
I dont agree with the opinion on casual players. Compared to some, im a fairly casual player. And I would LIKE to be able to put together the builds that I work out on Mids. Hells, id like to just be able to afford the Impervious KB resistance IO for my two Spiders, jsut to stop them getting dumped on the floor over and over.
But I cant afford those prices. Now, afaik, the Merits were supposed to make things fairer and a bit less 'elite gamers only', (thats what it seems like). Yes, I havent seen how they work yet, and I wont until the finalised Issue goes live. But Im just hoping that it does work out better, as was promised. Otherwise it will be a bit of a black mark on what looks like quite a nice Issue.