Comments: Phalanx Fighting is still of dubious value, but it fits concept better. Realistically, you are only going to get 3% out of it, by finding a non-squishy friend and following them around. Overall, the set still looks weak, but at least it is changing in the right direction.
The changes to Shield Charge where probably the only way to make it work. It's pretty much a clone of Lightning Rod now. It's less fun, but probably easier to use.
I really should do something about this signature.
I imagine that there is going to be a few tanks with no grant cover. I would take it. If for any reason it keeps someone out of trouble and able to do their job it can have a positive impact on the team. If without it someone is in trouble a negative ripple can happen meaning the deck of cards fall. I do think that, especially as I think its going to be on the weak side leveling up its going to matter slightly.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I'm wondering if Against All Odds might use the new diminishing returns code from new PvP.
This would fool the real numbers display:
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It is important to note that the Real Numbers tool will not always report the results of diminishing returns accurately, at least initially. This is specifically true of Damage Buffs, which always display the Pre-Diminished value.
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I really should do something about this signature.
I am like "Who gives a [censored]" now. After spending time in the costume creator, I'd play it anyway. I just wish I13 will hurry up.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
The set is terrible simply put too many holes to plug
1 Endurance at lower levels , means soloing is going to be a hell . and 0.21 endurance toggles doesn´t leave much attack options endurance till very late .(since 2 slotting for endurance is a must already , so let alone def slotting)
2 no self heal combination with lower defense number early on again means every mission is a hell
So forced again into aidself for some survivability .
So again its another electricity set cool graphics gaping holes that means you are forced to be powerleveled .
While Electricity was doable cause of aidself early on and conserve power later on , i can´t imagine to be able to take down EB solo with shields on anything above heroics till 20 . no endurance for a good enough attack chain , not enough slots for attacks cause defense eats up all the slots
So hurray one of those i want to be PL sets again .
If they are serious about fixing it first step is make One with the Shield tier 1 , so like WP you can solo without toggles till a certain stamina level .
The 0.61 endurance is simply suicidal cause eating up 9 slots just for endurance slotting early on .
The last biggest downfall is the mezz toggle , while understandable , cause no way in hell 0.81 endurance is playable without stamina if its a toggle.
Its again one of those if people forget to apply it .
A death trap .
Well like said before in brutes , the set looks terrible other then concept ideas , and only starts to rock when powerleveled .
Ah well guess thats what they want people to do.
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1 Endurance at lower levels , means soloing is going to be a hell . and 0.21 endurance toggles doesn´t leave much attack options endurance till very late .(since 2 slotting for endurance is a must already , so let alone def slotting)
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!!!!
.21 end toggle shield is low. .26 is standard, and in this case you are only running 2 (and a click, which works out at 0.087 end/s when perma) for protection from everything. Most defense sets need 3 or 4 toggles to achieve equal levels of protection. Shields is a low end use set.
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2 no self heal combination with lower defense number early on again means every mission is a hell
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LTP.
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i can´t imagine to be able to take down EB solo with shields on anything above heroics till 20 .
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I've news for you. You are not meant to. And this set is clearly not desigened for solo players. Niether is the tanker AT for that matter.
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The 0.61 endurance is simply suicidal cause eating up 9 slots just for endurance slotting early on .
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It's .42. That's less than almost any other defense set for such a broad spectrum protection. If you can't cope with that level of end use: LTP.
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The last biggest downfall is the mezz toggle
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It's not a toggle, it's a click. You might try getting your facts right before ranting.
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only starts to rock when powerleveled
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It doesn't "rock" at any level. It still looks rather weak at high level, but there is still plenty of time to decide what is the right level of trade off for the team buffs.
I really should do something about this signature.
Visit too many wow forums praf ?
Gee that you are passionate about the shields doesnt mean there are flaws.
Sorry to say i play the way i want !! why cause i pay for it . if i want to solo play that i can in almost any mmo .
Thats what i pay for . if you dont like it dont force your what you think is your fun idea on others.
So unlees you want to pay my 2 accounts , you dont tell how to play the way i want .
Now unless COX bans soloing , then every AT should be able to solo , every mmo that forced team play onto others at LOW LEVELS has been a failure so far .
DDO had to be rewritten to accompany soloist .
That shields is weak is obvious no matter how much you break it down in a silly wow style reply
but lets get to discussion 0.63 endurance a second on a 1.67 endurance return leaves how much for attacks.
A standard minion needs how much epd to kill (epd endurance per damage ) .
Sorry there is a reason why stamina miracle quickrecovery numinance convinience are so godly .
Or any IOset that gives + total endurance .
Endurance equels Damage , no damage is no fun .
You can stand there for hours with your granite armor .
If you can´t kil anything you get bored .
And i dont consider it fun to run around not able to click buttons after 3 mob spawn and hitting rest .
ENDURANCE management is not a fun style to play .
Sure its no fun either to have unlimited endurance . but between running out of endurance and unlimited endurance .
Which style is more fun to play .
Sorry how much you love that set its one full of flaws .
And yes in the end somebody will say its great .. but sadly everybody got there own opnion so do I
And it wasn´t even a rant post like yours .
Do read your post and check your real numbers the first paragraph already contains a error .. but i am happy kind dont even want to rule argue .
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Now unless COX bans soloing , then every AT should be able to solo , every mmo that forced team play onto others at LOW LEVELS has been a failure so far.
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It's funny that most people have end problems in the lower levels and have done for as long as I've been playing, which is since we got servers in europe during Issue 3.
Moat people get round it by teaming, others by using only the shields they need for the damage that the mobs they are fighting do, and some just grit their teeth and think of what it'll be like in 10 levels or so with Stamina and SOs. You're only forced to team in the low levels if that's the only option that you can get along with.
Everyone can solo, how well is another matter, depending on how you like to play and the AT and power sets you play.
Lonelyshade, toggle powers in general have trivial costs compared to attacks, which can cost above 1 end per second each!
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Gee that you are passionate about the shields doesnt mean there are flaws.
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I'm not passionate about Shields, I'm passionate about people not making unfounded declarations that fly in the face of the available facts. Shields certainly have flaws.Excessive end use is not one of them.
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every AT should be able to solo
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That was never part of the devs design policy.
However, as it happens, pretty much any AT can solo, with generous use of insps and temp powers, and a Shield tanker, scrapper or brute will find it easier than many ATs to solo, even though thier defences are weaker than others of the same AT.
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but lets get to discussion 0.63 endurance a second
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Why? That's not what Shield uses. It looks to me like you are ranting without even reading the information available on shields. Basic protection = 2x0.21 end/s toggles, a click, and an auto-power. works out at about 0.25 end/s when slotted. That is less than any other defense set for the same level of protection.
Also, if you had actually played a tanker, rather than a brute (and these are the tanker forums), you would know that if a tanker runs low on end they can simply stop attacking for a bit. Since their job is to soak damage, rather than do it, it doesn't matter if they stop attacking for a breather. Not really an option for a brutes, they need to rely on blues or detoggle a shield or two. However, since Shield uses less end/s than any other brute set, it is still a good option.
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Do read your post and check your real numbers the first paragraph already contains a error
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Really? Be so kind as to point it out then, because your post appears to be so riddled with errors it looks to me like you are looking at a completly different set.
I really should do something about this signature.
why should everything be able to solo in an MMO?
All ATs should be versatile enough to still provide entertainment when the servers are quiet, or you are unable to find a team, or if you just fancy a quiet few missions yourself. Yes it's a MMO, but that doesn't mean your toons should be cripples without a team and bereft of activity.
Which is the case now, unless you deliberatly build yourself a "pure healer" or somesuch.
I think LS is confusing "works better in team" with "incapable of soloing".
I really should do something about this signature.
Looks that way to me. Not a single build on the game that I wouldn't feel confident soloing with.
What is SR without powersets like Broadsword, Katana and Dark Melee? Its alright with Aid Self or fight pool but without any of that it has limitations. Too much in the way of limitations in areas that a Tanker shouldn't have. Let it come and let it play, if I can't do as much with this Tanker as I can with others someway, somehow, then I will say something. I am prepared to be wrong. A powerset developer has to be able to outbox the entire customer base anyway in terms of making something that can hold up, someway, somehow, without being too fussy about whose in team imo.
If Portal Corps is riddled with set A and set B then there is a fail. Anyone been to Freedom Portal Corps and counted the kins by any chance?
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I for one am looking forward to Shields I don't expect to be the apex of defence but definately won't be at the bottom of the scrum.
As for soloing some AT's more suited to teaming than others this is the way things are if certain players prefer to solo thats fine just leave them be but don't put down a set thats not even live yet because it conflicts with your personal playstyle.
Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.
Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.
Co-Leader of The Echelon
Visit us at http://www.theechelon.eu
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but don't put down a set thats not even live yet because it conflicts with your personal playstyle.
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"My" personal playstyle? How many playstyles does a tanker have? You should have a choice of getting attacked and getting attacked.
Teaming with certain people with certain powersets and then thinking its okay don't cut it nor count as a playstyle.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
ok praf since you ask me so kindly to point it out for you
turn on your real values in power called endurance consumption and endurance recovery .
you have a endurance recovery of 1.67 on a base of 100 endurance .
Shield works with 2 toggles for defense 0.42 , the third toggle is that nice damage toggle you definetly want to use .
Coming to a total of 0.63 endurace usage persecond , now that isn´t bad with stamina.
But since basice tanker hp without shields is nothing but a pile of hp something icetanks found out .
and at lower levels they infact use hoarfrost more then anything else .
Now factor in a attack of 7 endurance divided by recharge time .
You get your nice endurance per second use for your power.
Now you bring a shield defense set that cost 0.42 endurance with lousy defense on the market . without a selfheal.
And expect it to tank in lower levels ?
Yes it can tank if a defender yes it can tank if this and that , but if it can´t even solo well , how the heck do you think it can tank well . there is no panic button once you hit +2 or +3 mobs the basic value is already too low .
(now listed on the test realm forums us are the scrappers value so value for tankers are higher )
Now we have a similair two sets with the same value already early on Stone armour , Ice Armour , both have a selfheal .
Heck remove those self heal and see how well they tank early levels , infact ask any of those players when they really start to invest into the toggle powers .
Instead of the heal portion .
So when do you see when you activate a toggle that you only use 0.083 endurance ?? when real numbers are out there .
done happy now ?
How the heck do you know DEV design policy ?
What is now DEV design policy changes next week .
What was past DEV design policy doesn´t apply anymore .
So keeping onto old stuff is what kills the game faster then ever .
Infact i am happy they changed there DESIGN policy that its possible to have unlimited Endurance cause of IO .
That its possible to reach pre ED nerfs or powerlevel .
Sad is that the pre ED mobs are no longer there and zones are being changed .
But that alone proofs you cannot speak for the DEV neither can I ,
So step of the high mighty throne cause you are like the rest a subsriber that you might have invested more heart into it , doesn´t make you more more right , maybe a bit more special but not more right .
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you have a endurance recovery of 1.67 on a base of 100 endurance .
Shield works with 2 toggles for defense 0.42 , the third toggle is that nice damage toggle you definetly want to use .
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Why would you want to use a damage aura when solo? The effect is in most cases not even noticeable, especially with tanker damage modifiers and lack of slots (C'mon, you're going to slot your shields and attacks before this, right? Right..? 
). Also with only 2 to 3 targets around you usually in most of the cases you're actually better off just using ST attacks to defeat them. If you like, we could just go on with this. Dark armor has 4 toggles before lvl 10, you'll want them all of course (by your own words). That's 3x 0.26 + 1x 0.52 totalling up to 1.3 end/s before stamina. Also their heal is pretty much useless before stamina and enhancers, it uses 33 endurance per use. Shield is far less gimped for solo play imo... Back on topic ->
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Coming to a total of 0.63 endurace usage persecond , now that isn´t bad with stamina.
But since basice tanker hp without shields is nothing but a pile of hp something icetanks found out .
and at lower levels they infact use hoarfrost more then anything else .
Now factor in a attack of 7 endurance divided by recharge time .
You get your nice endurance per second use for your power.
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Going uber-endurance-management might not be fun but there are some very, VERY simple means of increasing your endurance efficiency. First: dont run damage auras against 5 or fewer targets or when you're not keeping aggro for someone else (no, you yourself dont count for someone else when soloing). Second: dont use high damage (usually also high-end usage) powers when a target is low on HP, wait for your low damage attack to recharge. Most tier 1 attacks recharge in 3 seconds (for tankers). I dont find that kind of endurance management crippling the game.
Also the hoarfrost/dull pain/earth's embrace thingy isnt all that valid. They recharge 4 minutes which lets you use them once or twice in a solo mish. Most of the time when playing my tank on low lvls I relied on insps rather than hoarfrost for healing.
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How the heck do you know DEV design policy ?
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I could be wrong but they've said that on the forums a few times.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
I have to concur that when it comes to AoEs or PBAoEs. Any less than 4 and it's normally poor effect per end. With cones its better to hit 2 and up.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Shield works with 2 toggles for defense 0.42 , the third toggle is that nice damage toggle you definetly want to use .
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I agree with the other posters. The damage toggle is certainly not a toggle you are going to use all the time. Especially not if you are solo and low on end.
As for end costs, compare to other tanks:
Ice: 0.78 End/per sec (without CE), for marginly higher protection from S/L/C/E/N, but with great gaps for Psi and Fire.
Dark: 0.63 for equivelent levels of protection, but with a weakness for energy, and mez holes.
Fire: 0.52 for lower levels of protection, with vunerability to psi and cold, and huge mez holes. Gets a good self heal, but that doesn't come end free.
Invunerability: 0.71, and is only really good against S/L
Stone: 1.25!!! for about the same level of protection, but added regen. Makes up for it by getting GA.
WP: 0.84, also high, but gives probably the best all round protection, and has QR (it needs it)
I could go on, but by your definition, every tanker set (and scrappers, brutes and stalkers) are unplayable.
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But since basice tanker hp without shields is nothing but a pile of hp something icetanks found out .
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I've been playing an Ice Tanker for 4 years. It is far more than just a pile of hp. It sounds like you are one of those people who doesn't understand def, and so dismisses it as useless.
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And expect it to tank in lower levels ?
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Not really, tankers don't come really into there own (as in take all th aggro for an 8 man invincible team) until SO levels, but that has pretty much always been the case, and applies to pretty much any set.
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Now factor in a attack of 7 endurance divided by recharge time .
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Which is why brutes (who have ltp) slot attacks with end reduction before shields. As I said earlier, doesn't matter on a tanker, since you don't need to keep attacking.
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How the heck do you know DEV design policy ?
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Because I read what the say on the US forums. It ain't rocket science.
I really should do something about this signature.
Is that -60 end drain still in the tier 9? (No time to look today as I got to shoot in a sec). That's definitely pants. No excuse for that. I can see the maths behind that part but just think that somewhere in it all, its going to be hard enough.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
It has a pretty chunky end recovery too, so there is really no reason why you shouldn't be on 100 end when the -60 is applied.
And is does have +20% max hp as well as the resistance.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Shield works with 2 toggles for defense 0.42 , the third toggle is that nice damage toggle you definetly want to use .
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I agree with the other posters. The damage toggle is certainly not a toggle you are going to use all the time. Especially not if you are solo and low on end.
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Lets play lawyer quote game cause seems you want to play it.
Who the heck you are not going to use a +damage toggle and taunt aura ?? what are you smoking
You want to not use a -damage to oppenents and -damage to you toggle ?
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As for end costs, compare to other tanks:
Ice: 0.78 End/per sec (without CE), for marginly higher protection from S/L/C/E/N, but with great gaps for Psi and Fire.
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Pardon you taking all those toggles at what level ? 50 ??
Oh and ice doesn´t have a nice Endurance recovery power does it ?? .
And dullpain doesn´t cover much does it at all ?
Increase HP Selfheal and increase regen rate is not some kind of damage prevention or soaking ?
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Dark: 0.63 for equivelent levels of protection, but with a weakness for energy, and mez holes.
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Pardon dark has energy weakness ?
What are you talkin about ?
Dark is the perfect set unless in your opnion you skip stuff , dark is more then 0.63 endurance set thats only complaint about dark its very heavy toggle set .
Again your view is too limited .
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Fire: 0.52 for lower levels of protection, with vunerability to psi and cold, and huge mez holes. Gets a good self heal, but that doesn't come end free.
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What does the selfheal cost for a halfbar of life ,
Healing Flames is terrific and you say its expensive its damn cheap to use . and guess what it heals up all damage .
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Invunerability: 0.71, and is only really good against S/L
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Want to make me laugh its only good for S/L
Then it makes shield globaly dung pile ..
God that the set gave the idea of WP .. DEF RES and REGEN .
You really talking trash here invunerability is good especially with the -5 base def soon removed its one of the beter set out there , that stacks up DEF then hits the RES .
and the resistance number aren´t even so low to cry about.
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Stone: 1.25!!! for about the same level of protection, but added regen. Makes up for it by getting GA.
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What the hell are you talking about so on some of your set you skip important stuff like cloak of darkness .
But in stone armor you take all the junk pile ?
Sure double moral ?
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WP: 0.84, also high, but gives probably the best all round protection, and has QR (it needs it)
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Where in god name do you get 0.84 with only 3 toggles
And one of the toggle you can skip till very late .
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I could go on, but by your definition, every tanker set (and scrappers, brutes and stalkers) are unplayable.
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You beter stop , causse i suggest you read your own anwsers first , but i was polite enough to not go into the [censored] Quote REPLY garbage , but since you need to have a trade mark here you got it .
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But since basice tanker hp without shields is nothing but a pile of hp something icetanks found out .
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I've been playing an Ice Tanker for 4 years. It is far more than just a pile of hp. It sounds like you are one of those people who doesn't understand def, and so dismisses it as useless.
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really then you sure dont sound like that at all .
When DEF was worthless and you know what , if you were ICE in I2 you were dung of hp when we were fighting +6
There wasn´t no artificial DEF calculations
There was no DEF resistance debuff .
So i wonder what the heck you are saying ..
Glacial didn´t even had that nice -10% damage .
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And expect it to tank in lower levels ?
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Not really, tankers don't come really into there own (as in take all th aggro for an 8 man invincible team) until SO levels, but that has pretty much always been the case, and applies to pretty much any set.
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Pftt skipper sorry tanked for 8 man in the hollows , tanked for 8 man at tsoo with a fire tanker getting knocked around that i had to use breaks free .. thats even pre 20 .
I gues you were one of those stone tanker hiding in a corner waiting for the group to wipe ? with rock armour.
And just waiting for granite ?
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Now factor in a attack of 7 endurance divided by recharge time .
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Which is why brutes (who have ltp) slot attacks with end reduction before shields. As I said earlier, doesn't matter on a tanker, since you don't need to keep attacking.
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Sorry since see you own post section one paragraph before.
Tankers dont come into there own till SO ...
Is it so hard to remember what you said a couple one sentence back ...
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How the heck do you know DEV design policy ?
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Because I read what the say on the US forums. It ain't rocket science.
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Oh i read it too , so guess what you have a different interpertation then mean so let keep to that different opnions.
Thats it now can you stop this quote and post garbage .
Cause been very polite , either post your whole opnion in one post .
Or at least read your own post .
Changes to Shields in latest patch:
Deflection: No change for all ATs
Battle Agility: No change for all ATs
Phalanx Fighting: Target cap now 3, now provides scale 0.3 defense(3% tanker, 2.25% scrapper/brute) still 8'
Active Defense: No change for all ATs
Against All Odds: No changes that I can see - it's still listing anambiguous 10% damage buff for tankers/brutes, 12.5% for scrappers,no indication if that's the first enemy or not, no indication of debuff.
Grant Cover: No changes for scrapper/brute, now provides scale 1.73defense (ranged buff def modifier - 11.25%) for tanks.
Shield Charge: Now does scale 3.4 + scale 1.4 ranged smashing damage(94.54+38.93 at level 50 for all ATs), now has an 80% chance forknockdown, effect area listing is now 'Location' instead of cone.
True Grit: No change for all ATs
One With The Shield: No change for all ATs
Credit to Muon_Neutrino
I really should do something about this signature.