S4 discussion about rules and stuff
By
Antibiotical_EU,
Posted on: 2008-07-25 11:41 in Everything about PvP
I tried to do that little box thing, but it didnt work so my reply is to globey by the way 
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Would you rather an uneven playing ground?
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Its only uneven if youve been to lazy to get the IOs.
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Would you rather an uneven playing ground?
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Its only uneven if youve been to lazy to get the IOs.
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Not everyone has purples and im not saying no to this or yes to that, my main has purples but is no where near the lvl of P1mpage that some other peoples toons are at
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I assume that although S4 is more attractive to hardcore PvPers than anyone else, that it will still be open to casual PvPers and maybe even novices. To that end I feel that it will be hard to give everyone an advantage of a level playing field if rares or uniques are used. Hardcore players probably/possibly maxed out their builds by raising their influence income in the usual methods (no need to mention which in the hopes of preventing another off topic debate that has no relevance here ).
Unfortunately not everyone uses these methods. I had 80 million with my influence earner before the salvage invention system came into affect and mainly just to get the influence badge as there wasn't much to spend influence on back then. Even now I'm still sub 300 million and probably due to playing alts a lot and not spending as much time on the one character as I used to, but even with all that influence I couldn't easily if ever get the same amount of uniques and rares in my build as maybe the least well off hardcore PvPer.
I think if someone like me had solely standard Invention origins and was playing someone with uniques and rares, it would feel like Gary Linnekar versus Dwayne Chambers (Mr Clean v Mr Performance Enhanced), to the effect that if I were to lose I could say that I only lost because I hadn't got any uniques or rares. Not true of course as I would lose even if it was the other way round probably hehe.
I think I'd like it to be the basic IOs only allowed, if this was to take part on the test server everyone could do a respec and maybe there would be a supply of free or very inexpensive IOs for everyone and judges could check each characters info to make sure there weren't any bonuses listed.
I suppose as long as everyone playing were happy with purple sets etc. being used then it's of course fine but I feel it makes it, certainly the heavyweight category, open just to hardcore pvp and perhaps defeats some of the object of making the whole S4 open to anybody. Maybe a way around it is to have an open event outside the standard competition events where there's no limits on enhancement types,but this should perhaps be classed as a exhibition event and not a competitive one.
As I don't know a great deal about this event as I wasn't involved in the last one, and perhaps won't be this time (I'm not a competitive person), I may be overlooking something and seeing it all wrong but this is how I feel at this point in time.
Any thoughts ?
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This is an interesting point of view but i will stand by my opinions for simple reasons.
I consider (without knowing anything) that the event is open to all but this is a PvP event and in fact a competitive one.Its not radom zonal pvp or mixed people matches.
Locking Purples/Sets etc out of the competition is against the spirit so far of PvP where no power is cheating (against popular belief that insps,TK,phase etc are in fact major hax). Locking purples or set IO's outside the competition hell even tiered insps is first step to locking out specific powers as well one by one.
Everyone has access to these insps/enhancements/powers and point is its all down to dedication and "training" just like in any competitve sport.Of course some will come better prepared due to being dedicated PvPers.
The best solution i can see into this is separating heavyweight into Pro and Semi Pro categories.Where in semi pro casual teams only will participate and of course there has to be a really distinct separation in rewarding these categories because the pro category wont be a walk in the park and cookies exchange like the casual one.
Besides i will put it in a more evil way.There is a general attitude that PvP is the devil around here.So considering this is a PvP event some people will have to take a trip into hell and not turn it into heaven.
A tournament that will not support the current state of the game is going to be a farse and will not represent the current state of PvP in zones and day to day activities but will rather represent memories of the past.
For the record i repeat again this is still my opinion only and my personal views only and not related to the official organisation of the event.(Just so i wont put KS and GR in trouble 
)
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Would you rather an uneven playing ground?
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I want a playing ground that represents the current state of the game.I dont spend countless hours on builds,team training,tactics and practise in order to be sent back into i10 or i4.
And also i am not be prepared to spend a gazillion inf to respec toons that will be in the availability of my SG to take out IO's and even erasing some due to the dumb respec enhancement slot system.
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Would you rather an uneven playing ground?
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I want a playing ground that represents the current state of the game.I dont spend countless hours on builds,team training,tactics and practise in order to be sent back into i10 or i4.
And also i am not be prepared to spend a gazillion inf to respec toons that will be in the availability of my SG to take out IO's and even erasing some due to the dumb respec enhancement slot system.
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So if a one team has 20 purples between them, and the other team has 100 between them you think thats all fair, and they should just deal with it? If you want a tournament based purely on the skill of the player and not on the hours they have spent farming inf etc to purple there toons then there has to be some sort of guidelines to insure that the player skills is what making the team "ub0r" and not how many pretty purples they have in there build. Also got to remember that if they are taken out or restricted in some way, it effects everyone i have purples id love to hit you with 129.9 Negative Dmg proc! :P
In a team situation purples do very little - its all about +hp
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
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So if a one team has 20 purples between them, and the other team has 100 between them you think thats all fair, and they should just deal with it? If you want a tournament based purely on the skill of the player and not on the hours they have spent farming inf etc to purple there toons then there has to be some sort of guidelines to insure that the player skills is what making the team "ub0r" and not how many pretty purples they have in there build. Also got to remember that if they are taken out or restricted in some way, it effects everyone i have purples id love to hit you with 129.9 Negative Dmg proc! :P
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I will put it as simple as possible.
Considering
a)i dont want to see restrictions that will simply wont reflect the true state of the game that we play on a daily basis
b)purple sets make NO difference in some of the most vital parts when it comes to PvP one of them being tactics. A fully purped team and a team with just set bonuses IO's are on an even playfield and skill prevails.
which brings me to my next point
c)Despite popular belief our SG has very few purped toons and
d) we will rip to pieces any purped team
which brings me to my conclusion
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So if a one team has 20 purples between them, and the other team has 100 between them you think thats all fair
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Yes its absolutely fair considering only skill makes the difference in such fights.I am waiting to fight SG's that will come fully purped against out teams and make my point even more clear.Not that we havent been making it clear so far 
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So if a one team has 20 purples between them, and the other team has 100 between them you think thats all fair, and they should just deal with it? If you want a tournament based purely on the skill of the player and not on the hours they have spent farming inf etc to purple there toons then there has to be some sort of guidelines to insure that the player skills is what making the team "ub0r" and not how many pretty purples they have in there build. Also got to remember that if they are taken out or restricted in some way, it effects everyone i have purples id love to hit you with 129.9 Negative Dmg proc! :P
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I will put it as simple as possible.
Considering
a)i dont want to see restrictions that will simply wont reflect the true state of the game that we play on a daily basis
b)purple sets make NO difference in some of the most vital parts when it comes to PvP one of them being tactics. A fully purped team and a team with just set bonuses IO's are on an even playfield and skill prevails.
which brings me to my next point
c)Despite popular belief our SG has very few purped toons and
d) we will rip to pieces any purped team
which brings me to my conclusion
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So if a one team has 20 purples between them, and the other team has 100 between them you think thats all fair
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Yes its absolutely fair considering only skill makes the difference in such fights.I am waiting to fight SG's that will come fully purped against out teams and make my point even more clear.Not that we havent been making it clear so far
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If there really not important, why do you spend hours farming for them, or why do you care if there not allowed in the competition if there not a big impacting thing?
And you need to calm down on your bigging yourself up were gonna have to open up a new thread just for your head :P
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If there really not important, why do you spend hours farming for them, or why do you care if there not allowed in the competition if there not a big impacting thing?
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Nobody is going to waste hours and millions of inf respeccing them out just to do this.
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If there really not important, why do you spend hours farming for them, or why do you care if there not allowed in the competition if there not a big impacting thing?
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I didnt say sets are not important i said they dont make difference between teams with purple sets and teams with just set IO's in terms of predetermining the outcome.I spend time because that is current game reward for investing time on your toons.
And i care of course because the moment something that is part of the game is placed out of contest its all downhill from there.
Also i am not prepared to spend inf as i explained to remove sets to go back in time.Even on test server respecing all our toons currently available is a drag considering a lot of the dedicated PvPers have a dedicate PvP roster of 5 toons and upwards.
Bottomline is that is my opinion only and i am of course waiting GR and KS what they come up with and we will determine accordingly our participation like most PvPers out there.
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And you need to calm down on your bigging yourself up were gonna have to open up a new thread just for your head
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Its all part of the PvP jibberish and muscle flexing the psychological warfare has begun
The key thing in my opinion is the fact some people would have to use 2/3 respecs to remove purples of something that is allowed in the game, just like people rightly say insps arent cheating why should purples be any different. The game evolves SOs, HOs, IOs, it has added so much depth and by not embracing this would be a great shame.
If the argument over purples is the cost and need to farm shouldnt LOTG +Rec, Health Uniques, KB IOs be banned too? What about sleep and confuse sets? These are very cheap and dont require farming.
I still maintain a well built toon with cheap IOs and accolades still holds their own in team matches - 10% recharge from each purple set doesnt seem like alot when AB grants 50% recharge and AB grants 100%. I only have one purpled toon and I hardly play it and accross all my other toons i have 8 so I wouldnt be effected too badly but its just unfair to expect people to change their builds for something they have earnt. Also like to add if people can play the market well you can make a lot more inf than any farmer.
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
You do have to remember i never said i dont want them lol, i just said that i could see why you wouldnt have them
IOs have made PvP really fast and ye it would be a shame not to have them. I can just understand both sides of arguemnts thats all.
<3
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And you need to calm down on your bigging yourself up were gonna have to open up a new thread just for your head :P
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Try pl0x, I haven't seen any comedy for a while.
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
What about if it was on test? Then there is an opportunity for even casual pvpers to purple up and respec into a more refined build purely for the comp... All they would need a is a little time and effort. Ask around for someone with the goodies you need to transfer their character and strip it.
It's just an idea... don't shoot meh.
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What about if it was on test?
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I wouldnt mind this and is easy like you said to get anything with little effort.
Only drawback is the amount of coordination this will need to do the server regional matches.
S4 allowed Hami-Os, some teams had more than others but it wasn't the reason why some lost and some didn't. The same can be said about Purples and IOs.
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Would you rather an uneven playing ground?
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Yes, it's a competitive tourney, I see no reason why some people should be penalised for having spent the time to make their characters better. They could make a division for non IO set builds however.
I should point out that I have Zero purple IOs, but then I think most people should enter the tourney to have fun and not because they expect to "WIN!", you try your best and that's the cool bit.
Shadowplay - Scrapper DM/DA SL 50
Doctor Storm- Brute SS/Elec SL 50
"speed boosts someone in the face" - Cognito
Whenever I try to stab Greek, two out of three he punches me in the face. They must be hacking anyway
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S4 allowed Hami-Os, some teams had more than others but it wasn't the reason why some lost and some didn't. The same can be said about Purples and IOs.
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Exactly
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
Just a note, s4 had a limit on the number of hami-o's allowed per toon on test server fights (i.e. the finals).
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Just a note, s4 had a limit on the number of hami-o's allowed per toon on test server fights (i.e. the finals).
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That was because neither of the servers was doing them on a regular basis and duplicating them on Test was a possible issue. Test should somewhat resemble Live build wise.
I just think that all toons should be on par with each other in some way so its more interesting
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I just think that all toons should be on par with each other in some way so its more interesting
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Some need to start IOing then and purpling up.PvP is about stepping up your game rather than degrading it.
Would you rather an uneven playing ground?