It's like Ice Armour Tanks and Energy Armour Brutes - while I'd agree that defense on these ATs doesn't fit *my* concepts for them, I'm sure plenty of others love the idea.
I think the best example of an SR Brute I've heard is Riddick and you wouldn't mess with him, would you?
As far as building fury - having hails of bullets come towards you and having great big weapons swung at you will annoy most people, even if they *do* miss.
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
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ok so heres wot my problem is with this, now usual i am all for whatever the DEVs plan and how it can only make the game better, but with this i think they have made a huge blunder.
1st problem the main idea behind having super reflexes is that you are able to dodge everything that come your way now thats all go and well with scrappers and stalkers but a brute is suppose to be the ultimate smash machine and to me dodging things doesn't semm very... GARHH im a brute smash, it seem more... im a stalker hide and wait.
2nd problem brute reli on being able to take damage and deal it in order to build up fury but if you are dodging everything that comes your way it doesn't seem like your getting mad it seems like your making your enemy made. and so i don't see how you can theoretically build fury.
does anyone else see my point here or am i being stupid??
i think it would have been a smarter idea to have gone with regeneration for brutes thats my personal opinion.
so what do you think??
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The same ^^
I really don't like the concept of a sr brute, as I didn't like the concept of a db brute.
But regen is maybe not powerful enough at the beginning to take a lot of damages.
Regen on Brutes would be broken because of higher base health than Scrappers/Stalkers as far as I know. Same reason why Tankers don't have it.
SR could pass as feral instincts for all you werewolf-type brutes out there.
You don't have to take the damage for Fury, you gain Fury from dodging attacks too.
One of the things that might feel a bit icky is the fact that this is going to be the second Brute secondary with no taunt aura.
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One of the things that might feel a bit icky is the fact that this is going to be the second Brute secondary with no taunt aura.
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Bof... The very high end cost of taunt auras make them very hard to use by brutes (who have to constantly attack to maintain their fury), anyway (except maybe by the /elec).
Dude those taunt auras help cause the enemy to hit you and build fury. You can more than reap back the end cost in running them from the additional damage per end.
I struggle to think why I would even want a SR brute tbh. Mine would fly I know that much 
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I do see your point but its very resricted
1st personally I've always seen brutes at there most basic as some one who likes to fight they don't shy away from it they don't stand at range and shoot or send others to do there work there in your face types this doesnt mean they take every hit tho. maybe they can see 5 seconds into the future and so can avoid incoming blows but the ability also stimulates certain portions of there brain meaning the more they use there ability the madder they get (yes im using that as my back story) what im saying is just cause your a brute dosent mean you need to/want to get hit
2nd its not the giving and tacking damage that builds fury but the tacking and giving of attacks weather they hit or not so it doesn't matter weather every hit your foe throws at you fury still builds
Well, they've changed SR for Brutes a little, not the Evasion toggle includes a taunt aura. That should help with Fury generation a bit.
I'm going to be making a SR Brute when I12 goes Live. I've always liked the look of the powerset (especially Elude) but compared to the RRAAAR FURY SMASH gameplay of Brutes I've always found Scrappers a bit bland. Such a Brute is not likely to be able to take a lead tank role on a villain team, but as a scrapper/supporting secondary tank alternative, I'm looking forward to it.
Inventions can easily take you to the soft defence cap on an SR. If you do that I cant see why you cant tank with one (as Ice Tanks normally do fine and all)
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Aside from defence, Ice tanks also have a self heal, HP boost, slows, -damage debuffs and Hibernate to keep them alive.
Not to say I wouldn't be happy to tank with an SR Brute. I'm just keeping my expectations low and see how it goes. If the SR Brute turns out to be stronger than expected, then even better. 
Just figuring SR with higher HPs and Aid Self would actually be very survivable, adding quickness to fury I'd think a Fire/SR would work great. But I'm not really up for a third SR character or a third fire melee
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
[ QUOTE ]
2nd problem brute reli on being able to take damage and deal it in order to build up fury but if you are dodging everything that comes your way it doesn't seem like your getting mad it seems like your making your enemy made. and so i don't see how you can theoretically build fury.
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Absolutely, I remeber a few months ago it was suggested that Brutes should get Ice armor, which to be honest would be pretty cool. but the Devs insisted it wouldnt work as fury would not build up fast enough because of teh high defence. Which is fair enough.. now i'm not sure about you but i think SR is a defence based set? hence less hits and lower fury. one of the devs bad desicions i must say...
Frostbourne: lvl 50 Scrapper Katana/Regen
Energenica: lvl 50 Tanker Invuln/Energy
Ionised: lvl 50 Defender Empathy/Electrical Blast
Avalonica: lvl 50 Controller Ice/Storm
SunSphere: lvl 50 PeaceBringer
No Ice Armour was thrown aside because of the slows. Fury builds on attacks not hits. It matters not if you dodge the attack you still build fury. Ice slowed foes down which stopped them being able to hit you............ the fact Dark fears them and stuns them means I really dont get the rejection of ice but there you go.
Oh and proof defence works for a brute can be seen in Invul (which other than S&L is a defence based set) and Energy Armour (which is also def based)
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
i can see how a /ice brute would build less fury tho so i understand why we got sr instead of ice.
on another note i think sr will be awesome once you get past the obvious endurance issues.
Well if your coming from Willpower to SR you trade +end for +rechg and so just need to alter how you slot.
Evasion is a now made into a Taunt Aura I believe. Which is good.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I do see your point but its very resricted
1st personally I've always seen brutes at there most basic as some one who likes to fight they don't shy away from it they don't stand at range and shoot or send others to do there work there in your face types this doesnt mean they take every hit tho. maybe they can see 5 seconds into the future and so can avoid incoming blows but the ability also stimulates certain portions of there brain meaning the more they use there ability the madder they get (yes im using that as my back story) what im saying is just cause your a brute dosent mean you need to/want to get hit
2nd its not the giving and tacking damage that builds fury but the tacking and giving of attacks weather they hit or not so it doesn't matter weather every hit your foe throws at you fury still builds
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Having enemies attack you and and attacking them is what builds fury, and brutes are the villainous tanks. So to speak.
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Having enemies attack you and and attacking them is what builds fury, and brutes are the villainous tanks. So to speak.
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Actually, a redname posted to say that MMs were the Tank "equivalent" which makes Brutes the Scrappers...
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
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Having enemies attack you and and attacking them is what builds fury, and brutes are the villainous tanks. So to speak.
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Actually, a redname posted to say that MMs were the Tank "equivalent" which makes Brutes the Scrappers...
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Yeah cos MMs can have better taunt control and no Brutes can't get their hp as high as tanks nor reach the res cap of 90% etc ...
I don't think I agree on what was actually meant by "equivalent". Brutes are Brutes, they will vary, or be made to vary in what they can do. Its just that one can more generally suggest that with most peoples basic idea of play and that Brutes aren't either Tank nor Scrapper; its a better idea to see MMs do the running in first...although so many are at the back preferring players to die rather than have to get pets back out 
Some types of Brutes can, through buffs, be made into Tankers whereas MMs are actually far too limited in the taunt control department to become as close.
I don't see a real need for tanks in CoV as much as CoH so what Brutes do is down to the player...mine will object to not being the most feared and therefore the one everyone has to try to defeat whilst their numbers are still high. 
I see super reflexes as more scrappery but then Brute SRs have an aura to attract aggro. I do reckon one can tank the LRSF. The method however may differ from the norm.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
It wasn't a debatable point, it was a statement of factual intent MMs relative HP surpasses Tanker HP anyway and I'm sure their resistance/defense values come close (ala Bodyguard mode)
While I'll add that my brutes are played to be more tanker-like than my MMs, they're also significantly more scrapper-like (read: they can kill things with speed regardless of which primary) than tanker-like.
It was intended that MMs = Tanks as stated by a redname so there's no arguing it
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
at the end of the day im going to make a sr brute despite what people think, so why not make one to 50 ur selfs?.
have a challenge, have fun, go kik some a$$
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It wasn't a debatable point, it was a statement of factual intent MMs relative HP surpasses Tanker HP anyway and I'm sure their resistance/defense values come close (ala Bodyguard mode)
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I'll check that out later, I very much doubt an MM adds up to a tanks hp total. MMs are easily taken down with aoes and I call that a bit of a weakness..like khelds tanking when in the mob there is a...and what about taunt control and mezz protection? MMs are bleak at tanking except in terms of sending in the expendible first.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I'll check that out later, I very much doubt an MM adds up to a tanks hp total.
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Mathematically speaking it does. A MM with six pets takes only a quarter of the damage directed at him, which equals "virtual HP" of 3212,68 at level 50 with the tanker HP cap being 3212,69.
But that's only if the MM has his pets out at all times. Mez effects can prevent that as does massive AoE damage, felling pets and with them the virtual HP bonus faster than it can be restored.
On the other side we have the brute who has the same HP cap as a tanker, but starts with 374,81 HP less (at level 50) and lower armour totals (difference between having armours as a primary or as a secondary).
So, what does this tell us? Don't pretend to be a tanker when you are no tanker. Villain ATs are different. Villain team mechanics are different. Simply put red-side "tanking" comes down to this: Take your share of aggro and kill.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Trust it to be you to fall into my wording trap XD.
Iirc I get in the region of 5000 hp on my bots and then there might be me to add. Way past totaling to the tankers hp.
The flexibility in taunt control tells me "don't expect to Tank as well as a MM as you would a Tank or Brute". ...I know, I had been trying this morning..
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Im confused what has taunt control got to do with tanking?
as i see it a tank(in general not the AT) is veiwed as somthing that can take the lions share of the damage with the least risk so while blue side a Tank (the AT) is the best option villian side the MM is a far beter choice as a MM you have 6 disposable pets that can die without incuring det surly this is better than sending in a brute who can get det?
You say not the AT and I don't come from other games so my idea of a Tanker does not come from other games. What I would be capable of as a Tank and as a MM differ. Tne MM is a better choice depending on different factors like powersets etc. Can the MM keep aggro in a long fight? I do see MMs as a good choice for the "first in there" bit but then after that comes the Brute. The Tank is a good choice for both. I can't guarantee a MM holding aggro like a Brute or Tank and I can't see an MM redirecting placement and line of fire as well or even when it comes to limiting what the AVs can attack with and by not having those flexibilities makes the MM in "general" fall short for me. When I speak of MMs or Brutes I don't assume certain powersets as I have a Ninja/TA
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
ok so heres wot my problem is with this, now usual i am all for whatever the DEVs plan and how it can only make the game better, but with this i think they have made a huge blunder.
1st problem the main idea behind having super reflexes is that you are able to dodge everything that come your way now thats all go and well with scrappers and stalkers but a brute is suppose to be the ultimate smash machine and to me dodging things doesn't semm very... GARHH im a brute smash, it seem more... im a stalker hide and wait.
2nd problem brute reli on being able to take damage and deal it in order to build up fury but if you are dodging everything that comes your way it doesn't seem like your getting mad it seems like your making your enemy made. and so i don't see how you can theoretically build fury.
does anyone else see my point here or am i being stupid??
i think it would have been a smarter idea to have gone with regeneration for brutes thats my personal opinion.
so what do you think??