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its still 12,5%, read up the maths 
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I'm reading this from Maelwys:
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12.5% + (12,5% * 100%) = 25%
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I'm confused now.
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its still 12,5%, read up the maths
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I'm reading this from Maelwys:
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12.5% + (12,5% * 100%) = 25%
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I'm confused now.
[/ QUOTE ]It's a 25% boost of base damage when you have 100% bonus from enhancements. So 12.5% boost to the enhanced damage.
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I had my burst from 20dmg eventualy up to 39dmg on a rikti boss while mezzed, i'm happy 
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did you kill him?
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eventualy yes, they do pretty pants damage at range. Its when they grab that blade i serious start running... or trying to.
Btw, the base is increase, thus the enhance comes after. 50 dmg + 12.5% = 56.25, enhanced 112,5 dmg. remains 12,5% dmg buff.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Ok, than that's pretty damn [censored] then.
Ayes, we're getting confusing again here...
Assume you have an attack on Live that does 100 Damage Base. When enhanced with 3x SOs that's a little less than 200 Damage (when enhanced) due to ED.
If we buff the base damage by 12.5% (New Defiance) we get 112.5 Base damage, 225 enhanced. So you'll end up getting an extra 25 damage when you use the attack- and 25 damage is 25% of the normal base damage.
In the game extra damage buffs always work off the base damage not the enhanced damage... so if you, on live, pop a small red insp (The "+25% Damage" ones) then that's almost exactly what you should see on test.
...and if my maths is wrong again here then I definately need my beauty sleep...
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Ayes, we're getting confusing again here...
Assume you have an attack on Live that does 100 Damage Base. When enhanced with 3x SOs that's a little less than 200 Damage (when enhanced) due to ED.
If we buff the base damage by 12.5% (New Defiance) we get 112.5 Base damage, 225 enhanced. So you'll end up getting an extra 25 damage when you use the attack- and 25 damage is 25% of the normal base damage.
In the game extra damage buffs always work off the base damage not the enhanced damage... so if you, on live, pop a small red insp (The "+25% Damage" ones) then that's almost exactly what you should see on test.
[/ QUOTE ]Assuming not buffs other than the enhancements 
The really nice thing about the base damage increase is that even at the damage buff cap, it still gives a 12.5% increase to the damage dealt.
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Assuming not buffs other than the enhancements
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Good point that.
Blaster "Aim" and "Build Up" combined are +162.5% Damage, so if we apply typical slotting (95.5% IIRC) + those to the above 100-damage attack we'd get 358 Damage. With a 12.5% base damage buff, that rises to 402.75.
The difference here is the equivilant of a "44.75% damage buff", or slightly less than one "Huge" red insp.
but that would the relative damage buff, but its funny people keep saying 12,5% base dmg buff is so little while it scale up massive with more enhance/bonus you have 
Tier1/2 mez-shoot-through is actualy really nice, as long u dont have high dmg mobs its really nice to use.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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Ayes, we're getting confusing again here...
Assume you have an attack on Live that does 100 Damage Base. When enhanced with 3x SOs that's a little less than 200 Damage (when enhanced) due to ED.
If we buff the base damage by 12.5% (New Defiance) we get 112.5 Base damage, 225 enhanced. So you'll end up getting an extra 25 damage when you use the attack- and 25 damage is 25% of the normal base damage.
In the game extra damage buffs always work off the base damage not the enhanced damage... so if you, on live, pop a small red insp (The "+25% Damage" ones) then that's almost exactly what you should see on test.
...and if my maths is wrong again here then I definately need my beauty sleep...
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Well you got it right this time, heh. However, I doubt that anybody at all will be comparing their new experiences on test server to base damage, they will compare it to the old enhanced damage, which is still improved only by the 12,5%.
Quite frankly, I didnt pay any attention to the supposed to incremental "fury" buff. It might have helped to visualize it if there was a bar for it like Brutes have, but as it is it was pretty lame. If the devs will be only "following closely" pvp to see whether blasters will be overpowered, I doubt they will notice any change in pvp from these buffs. If anything, the removal of the old defiance might make them slightly weaker.
Edit: frack it, I might notice this more once I get more testing hours. I just cant be arsed to spend time on test server right now, expecially since theres noone to fight in pvp there.
ps. Mael remind me, what was the old maximum defiance damage buff?
pps. Im not saying that blasters damage isnt improved, but so far I havent seen anything that would make my cry "nerf".
LOL the amount of math that went on here was enough to make me need a couple aspirins 
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ps. Mael remind me, what was the old maximum defiance damage buff?
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From http://www.cityofheroes.com/feature_update6.html:
=>50% Health: +18% damage buff
< 40% Health: +35% damage buff
< 30% Health: +70% damage buff
< 20% Health: +140% damage buff
< 10% Health: +280% damage buff
< 5% Health: +400% (this is the damage cap for Blasters as of Issue 5)
So the new defiance on the test server should be giving you roughly the same damage output that you'd be getting on live when hovering between 20%-40% HP... Anywhere from 25%-45% damage buff from the base damage increase, plus anywhere between 0% and 50% from stacked "Fury" attacks.
This'd tie in with what Castle was apparently aiming for - "70% to 100% extra damage on an aggressive but non-optimised build".
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However, I doubt that anybody at all will be comparing their new experiences on test server to base damage, they will compare it to the old enhanced damage, which is still improved only by the 12,5%.
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That'd be a 12.5% increase in raw damage output rather than a "+12.5% damage" buff though. Personally I'd be comparing it to the number of red inspirations I needed to chugg in order to hit the new (test) numbers on live.
I think it's safe to say that Castle's talking about a "+damage buff" (the equivilant to "damage enhancement" outside ED) rather than an overall damage output increase. So you could think of this extra "+70-100% damage" as your attacks getting an extra 2-3 damage SOs in them (+66% to +99%). Which is pre-ED numbers.
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LOL the amount of math that went on here was enough to make me need a couple aspirins
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You think *you* had a headache?
If people compare the new stuff to what their old character was playing like, then they WILL compare new enhanced damage to the old enhanced damage no matter what you say. I do this, so does everyone else. What you see ingame is what matters and what will influence player opinions. Therefore statements like "25% increase to old base damage" are pointless.
And if you didnt get what I meant then dont bother. 
Shoot while mez'd is nice some of the time but hey, when fighting higher con mobs or mobs with res to your attacks meaning you do piddly damage really, there's not a huge amount you can do.
Also hard numbers on the stacking Fury style buff plz.
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I doubt they will notice any change in pvp from these buffs. If anything, the removal of the old defiance might make them slightly weaker.
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Agreed. On the other hand I'm not worried about them nerfing unresistable damage. There is no way blasters will perform better with this in PVP.
Ehh... as an aside.
Defiance really doesn't seem fitting name wise with what we've got now on Test. Determination is closer. :\
Also, I don't like the Icons at all. Doesn't tell me anything. I want the defiance bar back. Or the Fury bar in this case.
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Also, I don't like the Icons at all. Doesn't tell me anything. I want the defiance bar back. Or the Fury bar in this case.
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Actually yeah, I agree with this completely.
I don't want to be second guessing whether they're my attacks buffing me or enemy attacks hittin' me.
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If people compare the new stuff to what their old character was playing like, then they WILL compare new enhanced damage to the old enhanced damage no matter what you say. I do this, so does everyone else. What you see ingame is what matters and what will influence player opinions. Therefore statements like "25% increase to old base damage" are pointless.
And if you didnt get what I meant then dont bother.
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I get what you're saying Hammer.
But treating the overall damage increase figures Castle has given as actual "end result damage output increase" simply isn't correct. "+Damage buff == Actual damage output increase" is not how it works in the game because when damage buffs like Inspirations, Fortitude and Enhancements combine they don't multiply, but add.
You can have an attack unslotted (say, Energy Thrust), you could have an attack two-slotted with +2 Damage SOs, you could have an attack 6-slotted with different levels of Set IOs.... a "12.5% base damage increase" will ramp up what you're used to seeing on that attack by 12.5% every time, but the "Fury" numbers will be added onto that rather than multiplied by the enhancement figures.
In order to combine the base damage increase with the Fury "+damage" buff and produce a meaningful figure that shows how much an attack's damage output has actually increased, you need to represent it in such a way that it doesn't depend on enhancements.
If you've an attack unslotted, the output damage will rise up from 100% (Normal) to 112.5% (With Base Buff) to 132.5% (With Base Buff and 20% Fury). The output increase for that attack is "32.5% of the original value".
If you've that attack 3-SLOTTED WITH DAMAGE SOs, the output damage will rise from 199.5% (Slotted) to 112.5*1.995=224.4375% (With Base Buff) to 244.4375% (With Base buff and 20% Fury). The output increase is now ((244.4375-199.5)/199.5)*100 = "22.525% of the original value".
Comparing the new damage output to the original damage output (enhanced/buffed or otherwise) is fine, and it's probably the easiest way for players to get a feel for the changes, but in order to apply the changes across different enhancement/buff combinations, you *have* to work off the base numbers.
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Also, I don't like the Icons at all. Doesn't tell me anything. I want the defiance bar back. Or the Fury bar in this case.
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Actually yeah, I agree with this completely.
I don't want to be second guessing whether they're my attacks buffing me or enemy attacks hittin' me.
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Agreed, there's talk on the US boards about bringing the defiance bar back as a slider to show how much of a buff the "Fury" is granting you at any given time.
I for one don't want to have to break out a sodding calculator every time I fire a shot...
Am i the only one having the annoying thing that each defiance buff is shown as a power that i do? I'm AR, if i do a snipe, i see the snipe shot in my buff icons, FA, same.
Added i have that +100% recharge proc (wich shows that hand) with a annoying darkarmor rez-icon often poping up.
Then AR also have the bug that slug always shows the effect icon on yourself, giving me the most moving buff bar i've seen thus far.
I join the group 'fury bar', would make it alot better to see your performance. (outside defender, believe every AT has a direct looking effect of their powers - even the chance to).
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Castle's already said that a homogenous bar won't work with Newfiance.
But I sure as hell want something other than blast icons, hell, give them a UNIQUE icon at least.
I wouldn't mind just having a bar that'd show your total damage buffs.
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Castle's already said that a homogenous bar won't work with Newfiance.
But I sure as hell want something other than blast icons, hell, give them a UNIQUE icon at least.
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Or at least different groups of icons, one for enemy debuffs, one for your own buffs. Currently theres far too many icons to give any sort of comprehensive info.
I know how it works very much thank you. no need ot say it for the umpteenth time.
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you need to represent it in such a way that it doesn't depend on enhancements.
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Yet you mention enhancements in basically every post you make on the subject
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Also, I don't like the Icons at all. Doesn't tell me anything. I want the defiance bar back. Or the Fury bar in this case.
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This.
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I had my burst from 20dmg eventualy up to 39dmg on a rikti boss while mezzed, i'm happy
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did you kill him?