Meh.
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
Oh god, if they take unresistable damage, then what reason does anyone have to roll Blasters in PVP? Psy Defenders are already all over the place and this would make them even more popular.
*edit* also, can we have toggle drops back plz? thx
FINALY!! Woooooo!
A Blaster that solo can take down a granite without problems.. ya right 
Oh wait, stalkers have unersistable too in their AS..
DOOOM!!! NERF!!!! BOOOOOOH!!!
I dunno, dont really care about PvP anyway 
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
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Oh god, if they take unresistable damage, then what reason does anyone have to roll Blasters in PVP?
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1. Highest ranged damage multiplier in the game
2. Heavy ranged damage of various types
3. Extremely high self-tohit buffs
4. Extremely heavy melee damage
5. Power Boost/Boost Range.
6. The Nuke.
7. TP-Foe/Webnade/Caltrops/Tripmines combo in Sirens.
8. PFF/FoN/Snowstorm/Hibern00b in Arena.
Realistically, even if they take away ALL the unresisted damage (and at this point from what I see it's only a slight possiblility that they'll even scale it down) it won't make much difference IRL unless the other team has a few Sonic buffers or a Granite tauntbot.
The only way they'll strip it is if doing more damage normally (FrankenFury + 12.% base buff) vastly outstrips what the 30% unresisted damage would have let you get away with before... and unless you're an AR or Archery, how often do you currently depend on that 30% unresisted PvP damage, honestly? A Fire Blaster versus a Fire Tank/Brute or an Ice Blaster versus an Ice Tank is about all I can come up with...
Any large team fight is likely to include (and tactically should) +Res in my opinion simply because +Res is so stupidly usefull. It's not like Sonic or Thermal Rad are new sets and therefore in short supply, especially Therm's. I keep tripping over the buggers on CoV.
Res isn't as easy to counter as Def and having a Blasters damage halved or worse sucks, and that's with the unresistable damage portion we have now. Problem is with a reduction or removal of unresistables is that it's going to end up shafting sets like AR and Archery a hell of a lot more than sets like Ice, Fire and Sonic Blast. Fire probably being the least affected simply because of Blaze and Fire Blast being pure fire damage. Oh, and Flares, but that's still naff. It's a bit like the Controller APP change that was (we generally all assume) an attempt to curb Fire/Kin powerlevelling, especially stateside but left */Kin Controllers the least affected.
1v1 it can be a bit silly (as can controllers, scrappers bla bla bla) but PvP is and should be balanced towards Team fights, it's where this game's strength lies. I certainly can't kill a [u]good[u] tank on any of my Blasters, and if I actually do manage to get a kill, I'm probably going to drop at least one in the process - especially if I'm using my Ice Blaster as he's lacking a self heal. Besides, you can get what an extra 300-600 HP depending on AT with set bonus' and accolades now? That goes a long way to enhancing survivability.
However they can counter def way easier then other sets (except FA scrappers - although against elude even they also get a hard time) imho compensating their drop in damage versus high resist.
A 'good' tank is highly subjective, more related to set/setup then to player.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
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Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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[Realistically, even if they take away ALL the unresisted damage (and at this point from what I see it's only a slight possibility that they'll even scale it down) it won't make much difference IRL unless the other team has a few Sonic buffers or a Granite tauntbot.
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That's the thing though. Any decent team will be +res capped by having both a Sonic and a Thermal. Try fighting those without unresistable damage. It's one of the reasons a lot of teams now roll with Rad/Psi's. Those are the only ones that can hit through the res buffs and do anything resembling decent damage. Sonic Blast can also do this a bit, but not as effectively as Psi.
I agree that they probably won't remove unresistable damage, but IMO widening the already existing gap between Psi defenders and Blasters is not a good plan. +Res is too good in PVP for that at the moment and it doesn't have nearly as many counters as +Defense.
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However they can counter def way easier then other sets (except FA scrappers - although against elude even they also get a hard time) imho compensating their drop in damage versus high resist.
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This would only widen the gap that exist right now between +defense and +resistance. Blaster still have all their tools to negate +defense, but would maybe lose some of their tools that give them a chance against +resistance. That's a problem.
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However they can counter def way easier then other sets (except FA scrappers - although against elude even they also get a hard time) imho compensating their drop in damage versus high resist.
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What. Def is hilariously easy to negate now via IO's on any AT. My Scrapper without FA can get 37% Global Acc bonus and 13% Global ToHit Bonus quite easily. Throw in Build Up which when slotted is what, 30% ToHit ontop and oh hey look I'll just hit this guy at the soft Def cap a few times. Besides it's not just Buffs that counter Def easier, there's more -Def buffs ingame than -Res from my recollection.
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A 'good' tank is highly subjective, more related to set/setup then to player.
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[censored]. 1v1 I severely doubt I can kill a Fire, Invul or Willpower Tank especially if they have Aid Self. I sure as hell doubt I can kill an Ice or Stone Tank. This is assuming Tanks are /EM and actively fighting, but I figure that goes with the territory as we're talking high end Blasters.
as you say your self just now, its set/setup Funny, first you say its all about team play, now you take 1v1 examples. (take a granite/ice for example, 1 of the best pve, 1 of the weakest PvP).
Just admit, PvP always had a gimp-factor, first it was defence, then it was the new IO's, the TP, mez, toggledrop, now its resist.. Not to mention the 'elitism' of IO's making the 'gap' towards the casual players even worse.
I just wish they remove entire PvP from CoH, saves another possible powerfix is some PvE power gets way to powerfull in PvP and get nerfed due it.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
If this change go through devs will just prove that they are as dumb as a bunch of carrots when it comes to AT balancing.
first they initiate a change which is totally [censored] and the wrong way to go for the AT and after that they top it with a nerf that will make the AT in player versus player combat as useful as a screwdriver when you wanna put a nail in the wall,because they realise that change is [censored].
good call.
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I just wish they remove entire PvP from CoH, saves another possible powerfix is some PvE power gets way to powerfull in PvP and get nerfed due it.
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This is due to lazy game design. The lack of some critical game mechanics such as interruptability and buff striping that are major equalisers in balance are not present in this game screws a lot with the mechanics imho and off balances PvP.
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I just wish they remove entire PvP from CoH, saves another possible powerfix is some PvE power gets way to powerfull in PvP and get nerfed due it.
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This is due to lazy game design. The lack of some critical game mechanics such as interruptability and buff striping that are major equalisers in balance are not present in this game screws a lot with the mechanics imho and off balances PvP.
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Imho its better to have nothing, then a really gimped thing that supposed to be called 'pvp'. If only they could look at their other game for a moment, they have a far better balanced pvp aspect.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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as you say your self just now, its set/setup Funny, first you say its all about team play, now you take 1v1 examples. (take a granite/ice for example, 1 of the best pve, 1 of the weakest PvP).
Just admit, PvP always had a gimp-factor, first it was defence, then it was the new IO's, the TP, mez, toggledrop, now its resist.. Not to mention the 'elitism' of IO's making the 'gap' towards the casual players even worse.
I just wish they remove entire PvP from CoH, saves another possible powerfix is some PvE power gets way to powerfull in PvP and get nerfed due it.
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Here's the thing.
Name me a power that was nerfed in PvE because of PvP. And I want a good, solid PvP only nerf.
Regen was broken, no reason to take anything but so that's out. Besides, at the time SR was broken in the Arena and pretty much untouchable due to the way Def and Acc were calculated then. Infact, the IH change was a PvP buff at the time.
Controller changes to holds, nope, PvE change. A Controller could single handedly lock down pretty much every mob with ease and with Pets could easily walk through them.
GDN, well, Invul was broken in PvE, so that change is out.
ED - the game is arguably better now with ED in place.
APP Blasts... nope, that was a PvE nerf and a seperate PvP nerf so that's out.
Toggle Drops... oh wait, non-existant in PvE.
Mez Protection changes. Yeah, again, this was broken in PvE. You pretty much just weren't going to get held ever.
I think I covered the big ones.
You want PvP removed from the game? Sure, that's your decision to think that and I'm cool with it - I want [censored] combinations like AR/Ice to be buffed to the levels of something a bit meatier like Sonic/Elec or similar but some people seem content about nerf herding simply to moan, rather than ask for buffs constructively.
Infac,t if you don't care for PvP, why are you posting in this thread? This is about PvP changes, not PvE.
The reason I gave 1v1 examples is because you mentioned player/set up and also in relation to the fact that the game should be balanced for teams. In teams, unresistable damage is fine and IMO needed thanks to the prevalence of +Res buffs, especially ontop of APP/PPP shields at 44+. In the lower levels it can seem a bit overpowered, especially 1v1, but 1v1 a lot of the time Controllers will come out on top or something like a Tank or a Scrapper will simply because they have high survivability.
Finally, IO Elitism? What? OH NO SOME SETS ARE EXPENSIVE JESUS CHRIST!!! Well you know what, it's not hard to make money, even if you you just play casually at 50 chances are you'll pick something up that'll sell properly, hell Dmg recipes vendor for what, 110k? That's not bad. Anyone moaning about not having Influence Post-Inventions should have a think about what they're doing with their drops.
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Imho its better to have nothing, then a really gimped thing that supposed to be called 'pvp'. If only they could look at their other game for a moment, they have a far better balanced pvp aspect.
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sorry but i disagree.PvP is something the devs should capitalize a lot into since it represents a large market segment on its own.With IP acquisition one would think that NCSoft that knows this (GW,Exteel,Aion,L2,L1) would set course for some of that yummeh PvP market share that CoX could get due to its uniqueness as a game.
Now if you tell me that this game is better in PvE i wouldnt think so and the only thing that it wins atm is in being the best Superhero genre MMO. And guess what.Its alone in that category.
Also there is not a single PvE nerf that stems from PvP. Its actually vice versa.Starting with the recent crapfiance.
If anything PvP has brought some of the best changes to PvE in terms of game mechanics.
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Not to mention the 'elitism' of IO's making the 'gap' towards the casual players even worse.
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sorry for the double post just noticed this.This is seriously wrong imho.IO's are the equivelant of gear in any other MMO and the reward of players in high end game.There is not a single PvP mmo game out there that has gear and doesnt have such kind of categorisation.It reflects the work you put in your characters.
Casual players can make money easy as well.If you want full IOed builds though stop playing casual and put some effort into it thats what these things are there for.
Xanthus managed a full IO build, and he had maybe 30/40 million tops and that was from scratch near I9 going live.
So it's not exactly rocket science
Where exactly do i say PvE powers get nerfed itself? All powers are PvE initinaly designed, they worked eqauly in PvP. Get overpowered, PvP version get nerfed. So its a funny list, but not what i meant. (simple one, CE interupts anything PvE, but wont interupt AS anymore).
As for the elitism, i'm not talking about money or time spent to get such builds, i'm talking about playability in general. Casual def-based players that see the strength of defence in PvE but have no, to little, chance in PvP. (in terms, PvP is available from start off, unlike many other games you wont get easy acces untill you are quite far in the game).
So i think differently about PvP, free country free opinions. Bad wording? My mistake, my apologies. They could have made CoH PvP into such great and fun thing.. why they keep fooking up? (i am a high supporter of the dual-build option for example).
As you say about ED now being better then pre-ED, it applies equal to the new defiance. Sometimes there are big sacrefises for 'the better cause'. People who are expert with frankenfury will get hit hard, people who are unexperienced/new to the game, or hardly ever had benefit from old defiance, will only gain massive increase of output.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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Name me a power that was nerfed in PvE because of PvP. And I want a good, solid PvP only nerf.
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Whirlwind's about the only one I can come up with.
IIRC it was changed due to the non-rooting factor, which affects both PvE and PvP, but PvP moreso.
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In teams, unresistable damage is fine and IMO needed thanks to the prevalence of +Res buffs, especially ontop of APP/PPP shields at 44+.
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Thing here is that Blasters (and arguably Stalkers) are pretty much the only ATs that get unresisted damage worth talking about. I've always thought that was a bit unbalanced.
Now bear with me a minute here: Scrappers are pretty useless in high level pvp, apart from one or two exceptions in small team/solo situations. The criticals are also not guaranteed, and at best you're talking about a 10% chance to infict 50% unresisted damage, which works out at 5% unresisted damage on average. Corruptors Scourge kicks in when the target gets below 50% Health, which won't happen too often unless you're up against a tanker (IME your HP bar on larger teams is "binary", it's either full or empty), and even then a critical is not guaranteed unless the HP is *really* low. That leaves Stalkers, which have to be hidden and attacking a stationary target to get an unresisted AS.
The other "damage" ATs? EM Tankers, Brutes, Kheldians (Nova form or PB Human). None of them get any form of unresisted damage. Dominators? Defenders? Controllers? "Containment" is about the closest you can get, the target needs to be mezzed (so it won't happen on big teams) and Controller base damage is low.
Now since Blaster damage is ALREADY consistently the highest on the PvP side of the game even before factoring in unresisted damage, that strikes me as a little bit on the overpowered side. I'm not advocating a nerf, just highlighting discrepancies. I think that capped resistance is a bit too much of an "I win" factor on PvP teams, and I'd be considerably happier if ALL damage had a slight unresistable component to it... but given that Blasters are getting what amounts to a general damage output buff, I can see that it'd probably be easier for the devs to scale back on the overall damage they inflict **in PvP** than it would be to increase everyone else's overall damage infliction to compensate. It's a question of whether or not Blasters will be hideously unbalanced in PvP after the Defiance changes. Since they were already very strong in PvP (Disclaimer: when teamed/buffed) it really isn't much of a stretch to "unbalanced"... but I feel we'd be jumping the gun if we assume that they're going to actually nerf anything just yet.
Problem is even now a Blaster, solo, has trouble dropping a buffed Squishy even if they're only relying on a self heal from range.
If all the damage gets reduced via resistance, it makes it all the harder. This is bad for balanced team fights IMO as it'll lean even more to the single digit kill fights that can be seen. It's less about who can get the most kills and more about which team drops the ball first because Res is such a big safety net when you throw in the odd heal.
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If this change go through devs will just prove that they are as dumb as a bunch of carrots when it comes to AT balancing.
first they initiate a change which is totally [censored] and the wrong way to go for the AT and after that they top it with a nerf that will make the AT in player versus player combat as useful as a screwdriver when you wanna put a nail in the wall,because they realise that change is [censored].
good call.
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Of course, lots of people like the new Defiance and power changes, myself included. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but don't think you know what's best for everyone.
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
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Problem is even now a Blaster, solo, has trouble dropping a buffed Squishy even if they're only relying on a self heal from range.
If all the damage gets reduced via resistance, it makes it all the harder. This is bad for balanced team fights IMO as it'll lean even more to the single digit kill fights that can be seen. It's less about who can get the most kills and more about which team drops the ball first because Res is such a big safety net when you throw in the odd heal.
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But then you can also turn the story around, if you have the same buffs they cant take you down easy either. (ok most do have tricks to make it a living nightmare).
Valid point there though, in range of new defiance, dispite you can continue shooting while a troller locks you down, most of them can also cause a tremendous -recharge (rad, kin, ice, psi defender) wich makes it yet less usefull again.
I often watch the 'high guilds' fights in GW, it sometimes take over 10 minutes before even 1 goes down, while everyone is just jumping around in rather small rooms nonstop hitting eachother. Yet less comparable, as you can change your build/setup within seconds.
Then you get to the PvP-style people prefer, 1 hit wonders like instagib of Quake/CS/UT, or mass-massacre like errrm.. well FWO had, or a steel-mate style where it requires alot of effort to get down at least 1 of the other team. (TG, shine a light on AoC regarding PvP )
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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Castle regarding Newfiance in PvP:
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As I mentioned not too long ago, I'll be doing a big batch of datamine work soonish, and PvP is definitely one of the Red Flag items for the new Defiance. If it looks *too* good, then reducing or removing the Non-resistible damage and/or Toggle Drops would be the likely place for adjustment.
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Source
That'll suck RE: the unresistable damage in team fights when everyone has +Res buffs up the [censored]. As for Toggle Drops, hey, I don't think anyone's really counted on those since... ohh May '06.
(And no, I still don't like the animation changes to Fire and Ice).
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Remove the unresistable damage and blasters are dead and buried in PVP! Not only that but heroes in general! Then villaisn would be the ones with FAR better unresistable attacks (assassination and scourge. [censored] this. Just take whatever defiance the stupid idiots come up with, stuff it in your [censored] and leave the unresistability!
Not for a long time have I heard such absolute pile of steaming [censored] suggested.
It pains me to see that they even consider the toggledrops to BE ANYWHERE NEAR THE SAME USEFULNESS AS THE UNRESISTABLE PORTION OF DAMAGE. Proof that devs have absolutely no idea of pvp WHATSOEVER
So.. it isn't as funny now as when trollers became crippled for PvP huh? 
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Castle regarding Newfiance in PvP:
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As I mentioned not too long ago, I'll be doing a big batch of datamine work soonish, and PvP is definitely one of the Red Flag items for the new Defiance. If it looks *too* good, then reducing or removing the Non-resistible damage and/or Toggle Drops would be the likely place for adjustment.
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Source
That'll suck RE: the unresistable damage in team fights when everyone has +Res buffs up the [censored]. As for Toggle Drops, hey, I don't think anyone's really counted on those since... ohh May '06.
(And no, I still don't like the animation changes to Fire and Ice).