Final Descision: Ice/Cold Corr or BS/Regen Scrap
By
Alvan,
Posted on: 2007-08-14 20:13 in Everything about PvP
an ice/cold is a killer build that can harrang just about everything while the scrapper can be easily countered.
Regen is nice obvious mitigation but with no defence every single incoming debuff will land and cripple you. People cry that regen is overpowered and needs nerfing but thats just not the case, its easily counterable by so much its not even funny. Thats not to say its weak, far from it, its just not the uber toon people think it is.
/cold isnt endurance intensive anymore, just slot the right IOs
An ice/cold should destroy a bs/regen really and IMO is a better toon but the regen will be easier to get into and have more inbuilt survivability
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As a new player you are much better off playing a bs/regen to get a feel of the game. Its a good starting toon and in team matches you can see what is going on and learn without getting ganked every 20 seconds. If after you finished the Bs/Regen you like the pvp then move onto a squishy (such as an ice/cold) which is probably more effective but much harder to play.
From reading your posts though you seem to have a good understanding and will probably be able to move onto the ice/cold pretty quickly.
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
I have to agree with 100% Stalk says. Also i agree with Phil that the BS/Regen will be easier to get into and learn the PvP tricks and get the hang of zones.Ice/cold will be easy to move on from there.
Imho you could swing either way but i would advise you on starting with the BS/Regen
EDIT: Let us know which server you are on and in case you need any chat or help drop me a tell @Tainted Greek.
What they said.
BS/Regen for beginner. Has survivability and allows you to actually live long enough to learn how to move around. Downside is that you lack in ranged combat (so if someone actually has a way to keep you in range, you're pretty screwed) and are quite vulnerable to holds and other sorts of nasty mezes (except stuns).
Ice/Cold is a powerful toon, but pretty worthless if you keep getting killed before you have a shot in using your powers. Thus, get to learn the difference between PvP and PvE with a toon that can live a bit longer like the BS/Regen, and then move to a more challenging/rewarding character like ice/cold.
Just remember to try and figure out why you get killed when you do, so you can learn from the experience. You'll be dying a lot in the beginning, but that's part of the learning procedure here. And if you play Zone PvP, don't be embaraced to ask "what the heck just happened" when you get killed and have no idea why. Most people that PvP a lot are more than happy to explain to you what they did to you and if there is a remedy for it. But only if you bother to ask and don't spout abusive language at them. (Insulting one's mother is not the best way to get in good graces with someone)
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And lets not forget that a BS/SR with elude or a BS/invul with unstoppable will kill more times than you'll kill them after their last power runs off.
Or that being regen, you're screwed when meeting a debuffer with slows and recharge reduction such as cold.
But regen is good to take for your 1st pvp toon (talking from experience). But don't expect to rule in pvp.And talking about that I remember the good old times before ED when regens ruled.
Heres a thought: create both toons 
having both of them myself and pvped with both myself (scrapper is 50, corr is 30 atm) I would agree with the rest and start with the scrapper. BS/regen is pretty powerful and can most of times get a few kills in, especially when you use buildup and then land a critical headsplitter on a squishy.. they aint amused 
(in WB with 3 dmg SOs i believe it was roughly round 900 dmg)
however, bs/regen got a few downfalls as well which you have to counter:
1) slooooooooooooooooooooooooooow, can be countered with +recharge set bonuses etc, but still broadsword is really slow. Also aside from the recharge times, you're always stuck in animation for a while cause i found the animations pretty slow as well. Few times i've died cause i couldnt use reconstruction cause i was stuck in animation.
2) weapon redrawal, doesnt look like much, but after each regen move, or basically any non-sword move, you have to redraw your weapon. In pvp that 1 second of drawing your weapon could be enough for your opponent to run away.
3) lack of range or mez (aside from knockdown, which i dont really class as mez), coupled with your slow recharges and being stuck in animation for a while so its slower to use a followup, you need some way to prevent your opponent from running after the first hit. Without a mez power, you can get that critical headsplitter in, but they'll just run off and heal after. It's worth investing in the presence pool for fear or getting the weapons epic to prevent this.
4) endurance, yes.. regen has ace endurance recovery, yes, recovery bonuses are nice.. but even so, broadsword is pretty endurance heavy i found. In long fights without stamina to support you, you got a decent chance of running out of endurance.
5) regen has NO damage mitigation. Sure, you heal back fast, but as said earlier, so many sets negate regeneration by now it aint funny anymore. You rely solely on your heals coming back in time. If people hit you with slows and/or -regen powers, you're screwed. Whereas sets like SR, inv or dark got damage mitigation in the form of defense/resistance. Also anything with high burst damage (defiance blasters, anyone?) will rip you to pieces faster than you realize whats hitting you. Because of this i also found out timing is crucial with regens (when to use that reconstruction for optimum efficiency) and lag is even more deadly to em than any other AT imo.
Btw, regen's lack of damage mitigation can be kinda negated by slotting parry right and spam it. However parry interrupts your attack chain and doesnt offer defense for every type of attack.
In the end a few of these cons are easily negated by sets (+recharge, +recov for instance), still you need to get in melee and make sure your opponent stays there, thats the biggest challenge for a bs scrapper.
About ice/cold, theyre nice, they rip melee chars to shreds. Regens got no chance against em with the -regen and all the slows. About no real burst damage.. ice has imo the best single target burst damage of all corr sets. Especially with cold's debuffs. Trick is to debuff em to hell and back first, and then help em out of their misery by pelting em with ice till theyre down.
However, they are alot squishier than regens. 2/3 good hits and theyre down. This can be partially compensated by taking aid self of course. Another problem i found is that its hard to get all the powers you want, when you want, cause its a pretty tight build (you want almost all /cold powers, but also want aid self, acro and ss for pvp...).
Combining these i'd say ice/colds are more for some more experienced players that know what theyre doing. Hence i'd say try bs/regen first see how you like it, get a hang of pvp first, learn the pros/cons of EVERY set out there (you need to know what your priority targets are, or what targets you just shouldnt bother attacking..) and get the ice/cold after as i think the ice/cold is alot stronger than the bs/regen, but also a lot harder to play and easier to get pummeled.
btw if you need any advice, just drop me a tell on global. My scrapper's on defiant (though its a pve build till i get enough inf to fully slot the pvp build, however hes still pretty good in pvp) and corr on union (pve as well cause he needs to get to 50 ) if you want to see how they work
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
I see multiple referances to the BS/SR scrapper and after hecking Super Reflexes options it seems it is quite fitting a melee character with passive slow resistances and passive/active speed boosts to help with kiting. It also seems to have quite multiple mitigation toggles for just about everything but psi... and Elude seems to be much stronger than MoG.
Maybe I should actually try BS/SR then? Any experienced opinions on BS/SR here?
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I see multiple referances to the BS/SR scrapper and after hecking Super Reflexes options it seems it is quite fitting a melee character with passive slow resistances and passive/active speed boosts to help with kiting. It also seems to have quite multiple mitigation toggles for just about everything but psi... and Elude seems to be much stronger than MoG.
Maybe I should actually try BS/SR then? Any experienced opinions on BS/SR here?
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yes
Its not what I would call a beginners tool as defence based sets kinda suck till 22 and you will need to integrate aid self into the build.
quickness helps resolve the slow recharge of broadsword (as do IOs)
Using Parry with SR allows you to attain elude levels of defence in melee combat
Elude can theoretically be brought down to a mere 20 second downtime with IO slotting
SR is positional defence not typed so avoids psi attacks for the most part, the exception being the untyped psi powers that work on the "mind" like dominate which totally ignore your defences (but still need a tohit roll)
Its not as easy to level as a regen but I love mine far more than my regens
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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Its not as easy to level as a regen but I love mine far more than my regens
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Yeah, that makes sense
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Its not as easy to level as a regen but I love mine far more than my regens
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Yeah, that makes sense
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What are you trying to say? People cant enjoy other sets than regen?
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
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Sorry but if you want to PvP dont take SR. Im not even that good at PvP and my blaster will own and SR scrapper. Build Up and Aim will just tear through your defence, even Elude, and as the set is all defence based you will take ALOT of damage when you do get hit.
having SR as DM/SR combo i'd say SR is a pretty good powerset as well. As said with parry you attain high lvls of defense already. However as parry only defends against melee/lethal, it wont save you from ranged blasts (well.. aside from AR and archery.. but you dont really see those in pvp ). However it will help for the majority of blappers out there that use melee attacks on you.
That said, remember parry interrupts your attack chain, with a blaster storming at you, its better to just launch a counterattack, bu-headsplitter-disembowel = 1 very unhappy squishy. It can kill em or bring em significantly down to health so you can finish em off with hack. However when fighting multiple foes, you can just do the attack-parry-attack-parry-etc.. trick.
BU+aim indeed does negate quite a bit of SR, however it doesn't last forever. Who says you cant just run and jump around like crazy when you see those red/yellow pops coming (its what i do on my regen sometimes as well.. cause it hurts you BAD)
Also even if you do get hit, thats why you got aid self, to heal that damage dealt to you back. And seeing you are defense based, its hard to interrupt you.
btw... i dont think bu/aim is enough for elude unless both are slotted 3x tohit. Always thought you needed powerboost to add to the mix, but i could be wrong.
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
I can hit through Elude with no real trouble, Power Boost is not really needed. The problem I see with with SR is, on my blaster I will BU,Aim,TF which as an SR has no real mez protection, they are left stunned and at about half health. Then its BS and another stun, to keep the toggles from coming back up. Then just kite until dead. Or another TF if it has come back quick enough. I know people are going to say that SR as practiced brawler, but Im sorry thats not real mez protection, a clicky that cant be used to BF is just silly in my opinion.
if they arent running practised brawler perma then they need shooting
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I can hit through Elude with no real trouble, Power Boost is not really needed. The problem I see with with SR is, on my blaster I will BU,Aim,TF which as an SR has no real mez protection, they are left stunned and at about half health. Then its BS and another stun, to keep the toggles from coming back up. Then just kite until dead. Or another TF if it has come back quick enough. I know people are going to say that SR as practiced brawler, but Im sorry thats not real mez protection, a clicky that cant be used to BF is just silly in my opinion.
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oh please, you have already stated that you are not good at PvP and your total lack of knowledge on SR clearly illustrates this.
Heres practiced brawler - you get held over your mez protection your mez protection is STILL ON and you will break free FAR faster than with a toggle as once held your mez protection is OFF. Practiced Brawler is the BEST mez protection type in the game for PvP. You really dont have a clue about the game dynamics.
I have a BS/SR and it will devour your blaster, its not remotely difficult to avoid a blaster for the 10 seconds when aim and BU is popped, neither is it hard to see or to fire off aid self when you see the TF icon land in your buff bar and heal back all the damage that TF is going to do before it even lands.
I could write plenty more but I will become far less diplomatic than I am now, it kinda annoys me when people state something as fact when they are not in command of the facts.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
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Its not as easy to level as a regen but I love mine far more than my regens
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Yeah, that makes sense
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What are you trying to say? People cant enjoy other sets than regen?
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Nope, didn't mean to say that at all. I just misread your phrase, so let's pretend I didn't write that
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I can hit through Elude with no real trouble, Power Boost is not really needed. The problem I see with with SR is, on my blaster I will BU, Aim, TF which as an SR has no real mez protection, they are left stunned and at about half health. Then its BS and another stun, to keep the toggles from coming back up. Then just kite until dead. Or another TF if it has come back quick enough. I know people are going to say that SR as practiced brawler, but Im sorry thats not real mez protection, a clicky that cant be used to BF is just silly in my opinion.
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oh please, you have already stated that you are not good at PvP and your total lack of knowledge on SR clearly illustrates this.
Heres practiced brawler - you get held over your mez protection your mez protection is STILL ON and you will break free FAR faster than with a toggle as once held your mez protection is OFF. Practiced Brawler is the BEST mez protection type in the game for PvP. You really dont have a clue about the game dynamics.
I have a BS/SR and it will devour your blaster, its not remotely difficult to avoid a blaster for the 10 seconds when aim and BU is popped, neither is it hard to see or to fire off aid self when you see the TF icon land in your buff bar and heal back all the damage that TF is going to do before it even lands.
I could write plenty more but I will become far less diplomatic than I am now, it kinda annoys me when people state something as fact when they are not in command of the facts.
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I am a competent PvPer, I dont pretend to be able to fight along side the best, but I can hold my own. And when did a knowledge of SR make a good PvPer?
Given a regen or an SR to fight, I would take the SR every time. I apologise if I have upset you by my comments on SR and your right I don't have a full knowledge of it. I was only saying how I see it.
Saying I don't have s clue about game mechanics is total [censored]. In fact the only thing you have to disagree with is over this issue of PB. which your getting just a little bit over excited about. Come on my comments didn't warrant such an annoyed response from you. Oh and you saying PB is the best mez protection for PvP, was that an opinion stated as fact? Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black?
Ill happily meet you in the arena any time you want?
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I can hit through Elude with no real trouble, Power Boost is not really needed. The problem I see with with SR is, on my blaster I will BU,Aim,TF which as an SR has no real mez protection, they are left stunned and at about half health. Then its BS and another stun, to keep the toggles from coming back up. Then just kite until dead. Or another TF if it has come back quick enough. I know people are going to say that SR as practiced brawler, but Im sorry thats not real mez protection, a clicky that cant be used to BF is just silly in my opinion.
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I can safely say i havnt stunned a SR scrapper once through PB with Total focus and Bonesmasher :S stunned a few after they died and PB hasnt recharged tho, maybe thats why it seems like your stunning them...
Spag
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I can hit through Elude with no real trouble, Power Boost is not really needed. The problem I see with with SR is, on my blaster I will BU, Aim, TF which as an SR has no real mez protection, they are left stunned and at about half health. Then its BS and another stun, to keep the toggles from coming back up. Then just kite until dead. Or another TF if it has come back quick enough. I know people are going to say that SR as practiced brawler, but Im sorry thats not real mez protection, a clicky that cant be used to BF is just silly in my opinion.
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oh please, you have already stated that you are not good at PvP and your total lack of knowledge on SR clearly illustrates this.
Heres practiced brawler - you get held over your mez protection your mez protection is STILL ON and you will break free FAR faster than with a toggle as once held your mez protection is OFF. Practiced Brawler is the BEST mez protection type in the game for PvP. You really dont have a clue about the game dynamics.
I have a BS/SR and it will devour your blaster, its not remotely difficult to avoid a blaster for the 10 seconds when aim and BU is popped, neither is it hard to see or to fire off aid self when you see the TF icon land in your buff bar and heal back all the damage that TF is going to do before it even lands.
I could write plenty more but I will become far less diplomatic than I am now, it kinda annoys me when people state something as fact when they are not in command of the facts.
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I am a competent PvPer, I dont pretend to be able to fight along side the best, but I can hold my own. And when did a knowledge of SR make a good PvPer?
Given a regen or an SR to fight, I would take the SR every time. I apologise if I have upset you by my comments on SR and your right I don't have a full knowledge of it. I was only saying how I see it.
Saying I don't have s clue about game mechanics is total [censored]. In fact the only thing you have to disagree with is over this issue of PB. which your getting just a little bit over excited about. Come on my comments didn't warrant such an annoyed response from you. Oh and you saying PB is the best mez protection for PvP, was that an opinion stated as fact? Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black?
Ill happily meet you in the arena any time you want?
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your mindset is totally vanila PvP and your comments contradictory, first you say you are not a good pvper and then you claim to be competant. Not having knowledge of powersets means you are what I would term a less than competant pvper, simply because you dont know how to deal with a changing environment, you dont approach A in the same way as you approach B.
My comment on practiced brawler is fact backed up by facts as illustrated by my earlier example, letme try again for you.
Toggle mez protection, holds stack over the mez protection level the toggle falls, user has no mez protection fighting the hold effects and has only suppression to look forward too.
Clicky mez protection (ala PB), always on, 100% of the time, often overlapping giving further protection, the past drawback of this form of mez protection was rooting but that has now been removed. Holds stack over click mez protection the protection is still on even when held allowing the player to break free much more effectively than a toggle mez player.
The best way to think of PB is as an auto mez protection, tell me a pvper who doesnt want that.
It greatly annoys me when a person is asking about powersets and people who dont know anything about them make all sorts of erroneous comments as the OP wont know that its total bullcrap. Talk about what you know.
And yeah, I will happily fight you in arena
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can hit through Elude with no real trouble, Power Boost is not really needed. The problem I see with with SR is, on my blaster I will BU,Aim,TF which as an SR has no real mez protection, they are left stunned and at about half health. Then its BS and another stun, to keep the toggles from coming back up. Then just kite until dead. Or another TF if it has come back quick enough. I know people are going to say that SR as practiced brawler, but Im sorry thats not real mez protection, a clicky that cant be used to BF is just silly in my opinion.
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I can safely say i havnt stunned a SR scrapper once through PB with Total focus and Bonesmasher :S stunned a few after they died and PB hasnt recharged tho, maybe thats why it seems like your stunning them...
Spag
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You would imagine your right, I didnt mean to say I could stun through it, merely that as its not a toggle many people forget to leave it on auto.
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I can hit through Elude with no real trouble, Power Boost is not really needed. The problem I see with with SR is, on my blaster I will BU, Aim, TF which as an SR has no real mez protection, they are left stunned and at about half health. Then its BS and another stun, to keep the toggles from coming back up. Then just kite until dead. Or another TF if it has come back quick enough. I know people are going to say that SR as practiced brawler, but Im sorry thats not real mez protection, a clicky that cant be used to BF is just silly in my opinion.
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oh please, you have already stated that you are not good at PvP and your total lack of knowledge on SR clearly illustrates this.
Heres practiced brawler - you get held over your mez protection your mez protection is STILL ON and you will break free FAR faster than with a toggle as once held your mez protection is OFF. Practiced Brawler is the BEST mez protection type in the game for PvP. You really dont have a clue about the game dynamics.
I have a BS/SR and it will devour your blaster, its not remotely difficult to avoid a blaster for the 10 seconds when aim and BU is popped, neither is it hard to see or to fire off aid self when you see the TF icon land in your buff bar and heal back all the damage that TF is going to do before it even lands.
I could write plenty more but I will become far less diplomatic than I am now, it kinda annoys me when people state something as fact when they are not in command of the facts.
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I am a competent PvPer, I dont pretend to be able to fight along side the best, but I can hold my own. And when did a knowledge of SR make a good PvPer?
Given a regen or an SR to fight, I would take the SR every time. I apologise if I have upset you by my comments on SR and your right I don't have a full knowledge of it. I was only saying how I see it.
Saying I don't have s clue about game mechanics is total [censored]. In fact the only thing you have to disagree with is over this issue of PB. which your getting just a little bit over excited about. Come on my comments didn't warrant such an annoyed response from you. Oh and you saying PB is the best mez protection for PvP, was that an opinion stated as fact? Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black?
Ill happily meet you in the arena any time you want?
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your mindset is totally vanila PvP and your comments contradictory, first you say you are not a good pvper and then you claim to be competant. Not having knowledge of powersets means you are what I would term a less than competant pvper, simply because you dont know how to deal with a changing environment, you dont approach A in the same way as you approach B.
My comment on practiced brawler is fact backed up by facts as illustrated by my earlier example, letme try again for you.
Toggle mez protection, holds stack over the mez protection level the toggle falls, user has no mez protection fighting the hold effects and has only suppression to look forward too.
Clicky mez protection (ala PB), always on, 100% of the time, often overlapping giving further protection, the past drawback of this form of mez protection was rooting but that has now been removed. Holds stack over click mez protection the protection is still on even when held allowing the player to break free much more effectively than a toggle mez player.
The best way to think of PB is as an auto mez protection, tell me a pvper who doesnt want that.
It greatly annoys me when a person is asking about powersets and people who dont know anything about them make all sorts of erroneous comments as the OP wont know that its total bullcrap. Talk about what you know.
And yeah, I will happily fight you in arena
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I see your point about PB and thinking about it, its does seem like a very good form of mez protection. But your still in no position to state that it is the best. Its all a matter of opinion. So I am right, it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
As far as your comments on my PvPing mindset, I feel its a little unfair to say over one comment I made about PB. But you are correct, I really shouldn't have put it that way.
As far as my own PvP ability does, I said it before, I don't pretend I'm on the same level as the better players but I can PvP to a reasonable level. When I said I wasn't good I was just trying to modest. When I PvP in zones there are people I know I just cant beat, but others I have no difficulty with. The first group are good. The rest of us are just competent or rubbish.
IMO:
SR>Regen in 1v1s
Regen>SR in teams
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I see your point about PB and thinking about it, its does seem like a very good form of mez protection. But your still in no position to state that it is the best. Its all a matter of opinion. So I am right, it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
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The thing about PB is that it can stack giving double mez prot. Only Kuji-In-Rin from ninjitsu is comparable in this sense, but PB has knockback protection, therefore its superior to Rin.
I need yet another advice from the time hardened veterans here.
I am a new player here and want to create a character with a PvP mindset.
After some careful selection I have came up with 2 AT combinations I want to play, but I have enough time for playing only one of them. So I need a help to decide, because I just fail to do that...
My choices are Ice/Cold Corruptor and BS/Regen Scrapper. I want to chose one of those.
My personal observation based off extensive forum reading and almost no game experience at all.
Ice/Cold Corruptor
Pros:
1. Ranged attacker with built in superior kiting ability with slows.
2. Ability to heavily debuff the critically important regen, speed and recharge rate of a foe.
3. Snow Storm can bring flyers down and has no accuracy check.
Cons:
1. Damage is not that great, no real burst whatsoever.
2. No self defense, except for debuffing an enemy, which might fail you, especially if there is more than 1 opponent.
3. Endurance intensive.
My overview: Ice/Cold corruptor looks like a really solid duelist and it has a very painful debuffs on speed and regen which can render many melee AT's useless and extremely easy to take out. Other than that - ranged fighting has a very obvious advantages over melee when it comes to mobility, combat movement and ease of damage applying. However with all that Ice/Cold seems to be very endurance heavy, has no inherent way of recovering HP and no self protection buffs, meaning that it is easy to catch at the wrong moment and waste fast while it is concentrated on taking on someone else.
BS/Regen Scrapper
Pros:
1. Great damage and burst ability.
2. Very good defense and endurance management.
3. Unresistable critical hits and defense reducing attacks give an ability to pierce some of the harder foes defenses and resistances.
Cons:
1. Pure melee with no significant ranged ablity. Screams: Kite me!
2. Almost no significant debuffs, which leaves enemies able to do whatever they want and need freely.
3. Slashing damage is resisted a lot.
BS/Regen Scrapper looks like a monster fighter, it has some crazy burst ability with sudden critical hits and it is not a squishie either with powerful heals and regeneration. It is also very simple to use with it's straight-forward playstyle. No major debuff ability is both a blesing and a curse, while havng no debuffs is bad, not needing those to finish off an enemy is a plus there. However, all of the damage done is Slashing which is heavily resisted and being a melee fighter places a huge restrictions on you, especially considering all the vertical mobility you can get in this game.
Basically - I will go scrapper, if it is not easily kitable/avoidable by majority of a PvP players and if it's damage is not resisted and deflected by everyone to rediculousness with simple basic skills.