Final Descision: Ice/Cold Corr or BS/Regen Scrap
By
Alvan,
Posted on: 2007-08-14 20:13 in Everything about PvP
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I have a BS/SR and it will devour your blaster, its not remotely difficult to avoid a blaster for the 10 seconds when aim and BU is popped, neither is it hard to see or to fire off aid self when you see the TF icon land in your buff bar and heal back all the damage that TF is going to do before it even lands.
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While the statement is true, theres nothing there that a SR can do that Regen can't... Both toons need to run from BU animation, but regen will have more opportunities of going toe-to-toe with the blaster.
Well, thats my opinion, and I havent seen matches to convince me otherwise yet.
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powerboosted slows criple regen, elude can be up for 9 minutes of a 10 minute match
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I can hit through Elude with no real trouble, Power Boost is not really needed. The problem I see with with SR is, on my blaster I will BU, Aim, TF which as an SR has no real mez protection, they are left stunned and at about half health. Then its BS and another stun, to keep the toggles from coming back up. Then just kite until dead. Or another TF if it has come back quick enough. I know people are going to say that SR as practiced brawler, but Im sorry thats not real mez protection, a clicky that cant be used to BF is just silly in my opinion.
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oh please, you have already stated that you are not good at PvP and your total lack of knowledge on SR clearly illustrates this.
Heres practiced brawler - you get held over your mez protection your mez protection is STILL ON and you will break free FAR faster than with a toggle as once held your mez protection is OFF. Practiced Brawler is the BEST mez protection type in the game for PvP. You really dont have a clue about the game dynamics.
I have a BS/SR and it will devour your blaster, its not remotely difficult to avoid a blaster for the 10 seconds when aim and BU is popped, neither is it hard to see or to fire off aid self when you see the TF icon land in your buff bar and heal back all the damage that TF is going to do before it even lands.
I could write plenty more but I will become far less diplomatic than I am now, it kinda annoys me when people state something as fact when they are not in command of the facts.
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I am a competent PvPer, I dont pretend to be able to fight along side the best, but I can hold my own. And when did a knowledge of SR make a good PvPer?
Given a regen or an SR to fight, I would take the SR every time. I apologise if I have upset you by my comments on SR and your right I don't have a full knowledge of it. I was only saying how I see it.
Saying I don't have s clue about game mechanics is total [censored]. In fact the only thing you have to disagree with is over this issue of PB. which your getting just a little bit over excited about. Come on my comments didn't warrant such an annoyed response from you. Oh and you saying PB is the best mez protection for PvP, was that an opinion stated as fact? Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black?
Ill happily meet you in the arena any time you want?
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your mindset is totally vanila PvP and your comments contradictory, first you say you are not a good pvper and then you claim to be competant. Not having knowledge of powersets means you are what I would term a less than competant pvper, simply because you dont know how to deal with a changing environment, you dont approach A in the same way as you approach B.
My comment on practiced brawler is fact backed up by facts as illustrated by my earlier example, letme try again for you.
Toggle mez protection, holds stack over the mez protection level the toggle falls, user has no mez protection fighting the hold effects and has only suppression to look forward too.
Clicky mez protection (ala PB), always on, 100% of the time, often overlapping giving further protection, the past drawback of this form of mez protection was rooting but that has now been removed. Holds stack over click mez protection the protection is still on even when held allowing the player to break free much more effectively than a toggle mez player.
The best way to think of PB is as an auto mez protection, tell me a pvper who doesnt want that.
It greatly annoys me when a person is asking about powersets and people who dont know anything about them make all sorts of erroneous comments as the OP wont know that its total bullcrap. Talk about what you know.
And yeah, I will happily fight you in arena
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I see your point about PB and thinking about it, its does seem like a very good form of mez protection. But your still in no position to state that it is the best. Its all a matter of opinion. So I am right, it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
As far as your comments on my PvPing mindset, I feel its a little unfair to say over one comment I made about PB. But you are correct, I really shouldn't have put it that way.
As far as my own PvP ability does, I said it before, I don't pretend I'm on the same level as the better players but I can PvP to a reasonable level. When I said I wasn't good I was just trying to modest. When I PvP in zones there are people I know I just cant beat, but others I have no difficulty with. The first group are good. The rest of us are just competent or rubbish.
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Stalk knows more about builds, powers, slotting, IOs than anyone else on EU servers he knows what hes talking about.
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
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Stalk knows more about builds, powers, slotting, IOs than anyone else on EU servers he knows what hes talking about.
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he just doesnt no how to execute that knowledge 
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Stalk knows more about builds, powers, slotting, IOs than anyone else on EU servers he knows what hes talking about.
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he just doesnt no how to execute that knowledge
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Indeed 
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
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Stalk knows more about builds, powers, slotting, IOs than anyone else on EU servers he knows what hes talking about.
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stalk-obot ftw
So then let's update the question, stakes are high - you get to decide what I am going to do next several months!
BS/Regen is out of the game and replaced by BS/SR thanks to the feedback gathered here, yet still - not all hope is lost for the villain side as my delusioned mind is so easy to convince to go to the the darkside...
Overall PvP effectiveness - what is better? BS/SR scrapper or Ice/Cold Corruptor?
Reminder - I will go Corruptor if BS/SR by the opinion of the most will be found lacking in following parameters:
1) majorly kitable
2) it's damage output lacking due to resists
3) easily countered otherwise
1) I would not like people to get away from me too easly and expect me to get swift, quickness, super speed and super jump - take that into account when evaluating kitability. Of course I realise that this still will be an issue, but I want the kiter to have a serious run for it's money before he can safely keep me at distance. Question is: can /SR with dual travel powers and swift+quickness deliver that?
2) I enjoy doing some bursty damage that shows big numbers and makes my opponents shout out "[censored] nerf" scream of appreciation occasionally (not once in a blue moon though, but on quite a regular basis). Can BS deliver that or it will be suffering from resists badly?
3) I would not really love to see most of the players having some sort of a easily avaible and unexpected counter to my character (fly comes to mind) and if it is there - I want to have an easily avaible counter move to combat that. What kind of such abilities widely exist and can BS/SR can provide me with a viable counter to such abilities through epic or other avaible means there?
*I don't mean things like: "Certain X/Y AT combination has some power here which can absolutely waste you - BS/SR is worthless because of that" (refer to the post about of that blaster which claims to be hitting through elude, a good, yet uncalled feedback, which absolutely has nothing to do with a qustion asked). I mean: "Everyone nowadays runs around with power X which absolutely and hopelessly destroys you by *insert random way here*"
Thanks for your help, people! I really appreciate this, because you, guys, will save me a huge amount of valuable time, if your judgement will prove correct.
Oh another something I wish to clear up...
I don't expect my AT being a super powered, impossibly to kill doom machine which two-shots things right and left.
I just want my AT being fairily competitive in most cases and be a threat to consider. I am fully ok with having weaknesses and counters, I don't want these weaknesses and counters written in 10 size text cover two sides of a A4 sheet, though. That's why this thread is here.
Also please mind keeping the player "skillz" factor out of the descussion. I am well aware that player skill is a majorly deciding factor in the game and a skillful player with a weak AT combination can outplay a skilless player with FoTM build. However in this thread we decide for a base for a future skillful player , skill alone will not really help you when you come against established PvP'ers.
Like some poster said (I just love his comment) - "this is not some super mad kung-fu movie where a weakling main hero goes to train and hone skills in the mountains for years and then comes back and beats all the bad guys". It's just true - skill will come definately, but you need to have a decent basis (AT) as well!
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I see multiple referances to the BS/SR scrapper and after hecking Super Reflexes options it seems it is quite fitting a melee character with passive slow resistances and passive/active speed boosts to help with kiting. It also seems to have quite multiple mitigation toggles for just about everything but psi... and Elude seems to be much stronger than MoG.
Maybe I should actually try BS/SR then? Any experienced opinions on BS/SR here?
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Yeah extreme damage and endurance heavy. If you'll slot all your attacks with 3 acc / 3 dam, especially head splitter which eats 13.5 endurance/hit, in this case you'll have to take Body Mastery for end recovery. Also quickness and hasten cos your attacks are really slow.
SR has a downfall .. sometimes all the hits you dodged are hitting you after, so you'll have to take Aid Self also.
In PvE it's the team's tank when you don't have a real tank, even without elude you can tank mobs. With elude you can tanks some AVs.
For PvE it's a very nice, rewarding toon.
In PvP kinda sux without elude. I'm killing and I'm always calm in the middle of the battle, all trying to hit me and failing, when elude is on and I'm running like hell when I don't have it. Psi damage, fear and recharge redux aren't your friends :P
BS/SR is a awesome tool, when headsplitter crits you hit for more than Assassin Strike ever will, properly slotted you will have a chain of just Hack, Disembowel and Headsplitter with parry used periodically to annoy melee opponents. Its burst damage is massive, yes lethal is largely resisted but criticals are 100% irresistable so you will still churn out huge globs of damage, I have taken down Inv tanks through unstoppable before, SR resists debuffs, has slow resists, awesome god mode in elude and built in +perception for finding everyone in the zones as literally everyone has stealth IOs running. You can slot an insane amount of +recharge with all the defence powers and can run at 40%+ with ease with correct slotting that should make pve a breeze and pvp fun.
However defence can be bypassed and when hit you are hit for 100% damage, the build is restrictive as you need fitness and aid self for sure and conventional wisdom states that you need speed and leaping pools also.
Its not easy street though, lack of range can hurt, its more of an advanced toon, harder work but the rewards are there.
Ice/Cold is amazing strong in PvP, no +percept but with a stealth IO and artic fog you are invisible to normal players, your debuffs are crazy and you will annoy many many players with them, infridgidate is one of the best powers in the game unlike many other tier 1s.
You will die fast though and often but hey, thats just part of the game and you will hate kinetics as one SB ruins all of your slows and makes life that much harder.
Both are very good toons, both will serve you well, the BS/SR is harder to get into a great spec. SR is very fast moving so you can usually catch people (taking weapon mastery for web nade will help) and not much can escape from a /cold corr
It basically comes down to what you want
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i am responding from my cellphone, so the text may seem crude. anyways i decided to give reflex scrapper a try. will see how it goes... thanks for your help, everyone!
An update here...
I did a little thinking and research in attempt to find some good power mix of Ice/Cold Corruptor (I like the style, but hate the squishiness) and BS/SR or BS/Regen (Good burst and survivability, but so little utility - basically it has nothing special, becides pure damage... plus the sword is so slooooooow and boring and kiting is an issue) and I found an answer!
I will go for Spines/Regen scrapper... It has some nice anti-kiting abilities thanks to slows and ranged attack with -fly tied to it, it has a lot of nasty debuffs tied to attacks, it has some good damage, it is quick and is quite durable. Plus it looks unique and interesting (glowing fists are just everywheere and reek of some peasantry brawling, swords are just old - every mmo is crawling with them already, while all these firebolts, icebolts and whateverbolts are just unoriginal).
I decided to ditch SR as it is just too endurance heavy for my taste with all those toggles around (and I am horrified about the idea of losing those toggles mid-fight), while regen is a good all around way to keep yourself up and allows more room for mistakes with it's powerful healing and endurance management.
Opinions on Spines/Regen are welcome - I would love to hear some feedback from a veteran players here...
oh god not another spines/regen.....
Regen is easiest to level early game simply due to QR, SR as I said is a late bloomer but its pretty easy to get almost infinate endurance with IOs from the mid 20s. Regen is obvious mitigation but everyone rad/dark/cold/poison and others will tear you apart. Its pretty easy work though and you shouldnt have much of an issue getting used to pvp
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oh god not another spines/regen.....
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@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
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oh god not another spines/regen.....
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oh god not another spines/regen.....
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Somehow I find this wail rather reassuring...
So judging by that I believe spines/regen is at least viable in PvP?
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oh god not another spines/regen.....
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Somehow I find this wail rather reassuring...
So judging by that I believe spines/regen is at least viable in PvP?
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Its so common you wont gain any respect from doing well with it. Spines/Regen is/was the ultimate pvp fotm (flavour of the month) which is a tried and tested build proven in pvp. Its good to have variety in pvp (although not every build is viable there are plenty of builds that work and you shouldnt have to rely on fotms). Not that fotm automatically equals bad just spines/regen has been done to death.
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
Good enough for me...
It being FoTM is a bit disappointing, but I really love concept here... all those spines sticking out and piercing things and ranged attacks with tied slowing effects and poison, of course - just too sweet. And AoE effects, mmm...
With broadsword I was dead bored (well I got it to 11, so not much seen there, but still), with spines I already start loving the thing at level 8.
Personally I dont think spines/regen is any better than regens of other primaries, but for some reason it has become the most common fotm toon, or what is most commonly perceived as one. Of course its your choice what to play 
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Like others said, you wont get any respect playing one, propably the contrary cause its thought to be played by people who go for a fotm toon above anything else. PVP players who know where its at opt for some other kind of toon these days.
Impale is the best scrapper attack untill level 26 of any set AND is ranged (40ft, it used to be an incredible 80ft which was more than blasters top ST attack) Spines is a solid set, the slows do effect opponents significantly but the combination of spines and regen has been more than done to death, its got to be the most popular combination in the game. You will probably get more abuse for rolling a spines/regen in the pvp zones than if you were running a stalker, they are just that much of a fotm, simple solution is to turn off villain chat.
That said I love heroes with /regen, they are so easy to destroy
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That said I love heroes with /regen, they are so easy to destroy
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QFT
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
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oh god not another spines/regen.....
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Now that I have settled with the AT type... I wonder what kind of evil Epic powers should I take for my mean Spines/Regen...
I hovered around those power sets and I like the idea of Power Mastery... Adding another build up and Total Focus (with scrapper melee modifier ) seems to cover nice for some royal pain burst damage here and there...
Besides... I can already see how those EM stalkers will drop a load into their suits seeing a scrapper with Double build-up + some tasty red + 112.5% Total Focus nailing them... Maybe I should even take stealth for more comedy effect...
And some Lethal/Smashing resistance from there seems nice...
Sorry to burst your bubble but you cant take any epic unfortunately you need to take scrapper ones which for pvp you're looking at body or weapons. Body is generally chosen for PvP Focused Accuracy a very nice power some more decent ranged attacks and conserve power can be useful. Weapons is a -jump webnade, caltrops and 2 ranged attacks.
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
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Sorry to burst your bubble but you cant take any epic unfortunately you need to take scrapper ones which for pvp you're looking at body or weapons. Body is generally chosen for PvP Focused Accuracy a very nice power some more decent ranged attacks and conserve power can be useful. Weapons is a -jump webnade, caltrops and 2 ranged attacks.
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Aww that bursting bubble must be a big bang that!
P.S. I don't know where you were hovering gaidax, but it's really worth getting your hands on the excellent Mid's hero builder. Amongst many other things it makes you able to check exactly what powers (epics too) you can take on each AT and sets.
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I have a BS/SR and it will devour your blaster, its not remotely difficult to avoid a blaster for the 10 seconds when aim and BU is popped, neither is it hard to see or to fire off aid self when you see the TF icon land in your buff bar and heal back all the damage that TF is going to do before it even lands.
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While the statement is true, theres nothing there that a SR can do that Regen can't... Both toons need to run from BU animation, but regen will have more opportunities of going toe-to-toe with the blaster.
Well, thats my opinion, and I havent seen matches to convince me otherwise yet.