Poison posion trap vs traps poison trap - grrr!
By
Axewrath,
Posted on: 2007-08-01 18:27 in Masterminds
Poison has Noxious gas 
Even with noxious gas, Poison poison trap is by default the power you can _always_ skip. Useless, lousy, interuptable, stupid, weak.. did i mention useless already?
Trap poison trap.. pwnz, rawks, uber, lovely, great, isnane, superb, strong, perfect usable, w00t.. 1 word, awsome!
If there ever will be a fix/update to this? Since release of CoV they been like this, i dont see it change anywhere soon.
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Yeah /poison poison trap is a sure skip power, but as someone said we have noxious gas instead.
Would like to see poison trap get a buff so its atleast useful, but not as good as the traps version.
Cm'on, ok that a trap guy can place a trap faster than a poison guy, but a poison guy should be able to make a better poison trap than a trap guy imho.
I play both a ninja/poison and a bots/traps and the huge difference is driving me mad. Sure - poison is a great debuffer, but we also get the rediculous "heal" power, the biggest joke in CoV history (but good against arachnids).
I was probably one of the first to go with poison on defiant (first alt I rolled a few minutes efter the game was released) and I'm also crazy enough to do, and stick with, some crazy builds. IMHO all powers have some use or *should* have some use.
Even with an interrupt time SO/IO however, poison trap is useless for everything except pulling/recall foe -> both strategies for chicken traps, not for a debuffer. I would buy it if I could at least run inside a group of foes with my invisibility on and place it, but...
I'd just like to hear someone explain WHY there's such a huge difference. Poison IS a great debuff, but I feel that with the worthless heal and the crappy poison trap it's a bit underpowered compared to the other MM secondaries(I refuse to say the others are overpowered) 
As I see it, it's the only team oriented secondary in the MM sets - and that I like - I am *the* support person! Other sets are either solo oriented or good for both. But sometimes I really wonder how the devs thougth when they did what they did.
(and btw, my "crazy" build usually turn out to be rather good once the nerfs sets in!)
Erm... poison heal is actualy very awsome. U just need proper slotting and its a spam power for sure. Added you have the mez-protection power, wich stacks greatly. I can debuff a EB to the bottom, put my big assault bot in front of him and put auto poisonheal on him.. Kinda a I-Win button.
Its the blaster /ice underdog style, 1 power is so useless nobody ever takes it. However, single target they are beyond any other set. Added that it compensate massive with having noxious gas, this beats EMP (TA) 10 times and back (or that intangle power of FF, dark servent is .. equal. Detonator is good, if u use it properly).
I cant remember if Poison trap interupts when u being hit? As Trap trap doesnt, bodyguard mode in, rush in and plant it, awsome tactics.
Perhaps a little buff (no-interupt if hit) would be nice, but once it get close to Trap trap, poison might get abit overpowered.
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Thats exactly they way i see it, i would love to have the traps poison trap, but with the rest of the poison set, it would be over powered.
Sinergy_X put it far better though 
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As I see it, it's the only team oriented secondary in the MM sets - and that I like - I am *the* support person! Other sets are either solo oriented or good for both. But sometimes I really wonder how the devs thougth when they did what they did.
(and btw, my "crazy" build usually turn out to be rather good once the nerfs sets in!)
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Aehm Poison is by far the least team oriented secondary of all MM secondaries cause almost all powers are single target.
That leaves Antidote and Elixir of life on the team oriented part, powers that most peaople skip anyways.
Poisons heal dont suck! It heals for less then heal other but recharges must faster so in any long fight it will easily out-heal heal other.
I would never skip antidote, its a great power for teaming and solo, the malta can stun my pets for quite some time.
I dont agree with the awful teaming set either, yes the two main debuffs are single target, but when i play my MM i can slow the whole mob (debuff with nox gas if necessary) while i tear the more tough targets down too size.... i have never seen paragon protecters fall as fast as when i bring my MM along
Since it is the best debuffer I find it to be a geat team player. I can't do much for my pets with it, but I can heal team members and do a lot of crowd control - so IMHO it's a team oriented relentless mish player, whereas it's "demanding" to play it solo on higher levels since there's no self protection or AoE heal. I love playing it in 8 man teams and they tend to love how I debuff everything.
I'm gonna put an interrupt IO in the poison trap once I hit 47 to see if it's acceptable, but that might take some time. More interested in my onion bots/traps at the moment, and pretty much all the other alts too!
But basically they've done what they usually do, the powers within one set hasn't been balanced so noone want's the poison trap once they realize how much it sucks compared to traps poison trap - and they feel cheated and waste a respec!
I hope they don't fix it, then I'd have to find room in my very tight Necro/Posion build for it.
Btw, interrupt IOs can't be placed in it, so it really sucks!
...and Yes, that MM has been placed in the retirement home even if I kind of liked it! I guess I'm just born to buff/debuff/heal/hold!
Isnt that the concept of the entire secondiary of MM? Buff, debuff, heal and hold? What would poison trap add to this?
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and Yes, that MM has been placed in the retirement home even if I kind of liked it!
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Stop being daft. Poison is still a really good set, overall its prolly a bit "better" than traps.
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Isnt that the concept of the entire secondiary of MM? Buff, debuff, heal and hold? What would poison trap add to this?
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Um, that's my point! I'm a 100% corr after this (and a dom that dinged 50 yday)! That's what I'm supposed to be, prolly! Poison FTW! And no #ยค" way poison is better than traps!
Imho it IS a good team power due to good debuffs, I just don't like any set to have any pointless power, and poison poison trap is rather pointless, but fools people to believe it's the same as traps poison trap and take it.
Personally I tend to do some rather "weird/wrong" builds because I like to be unusual and have powers people rarely see. It also makes me more immune to nerfs and the game is simple enough to enjoy even with a few stupid powers.
The first mastermind(and one of my first villains) I created was a Mercs/poison, and I still play him now.
Poison is an awesome set and it has everything a person needs except a self heal.
But that is no loss, as I have a gealing minion to keep an eye out on me if needed not that I get injured that much anyway.
Poison trap is perhaps one of the lease used powers I have, its not bad but as its name would suggest "trap" its very situational.
Would I drop it?
No It still gets use, so far the only power I have dropped has been "serum" in the Mercs set..Not that was a pants power.
If people want the power from the traps set, then play /traps. Dont expect a totaly different set to be the same.
When I can no longer walk up to an AV and plant the trap behind him while my minions are wailing in him/her, thats when I will drop it
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I just don't like any set to have any pointless power, and poison poison trap is rather pointless
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Triage beacon and detonator are hardly awesome powers. Thats 2 stinkers in traps vs only 1 stinker in poison. I think poison is more effective, traps is more in line with how I want to play, so I play traps more often.
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Detonator works lovely on necro however, free spirit ftw 
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Triage becaon is pretty darn awesome providing you have a ranged primary (works GREAT with 'Bots)
Detonator is a bit meh though. And Seeker Drones wins the "[Censored]est power award"...
IMO Poison is far better than Traps against single targets, but Traps is better for multiple targets.
Drones are imho best alpha takers of every set i've seen. Pop em in, let agro focus on the seekers, run in and drop the poison trap. Mayhem garanteed
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On a Corr, sure. Fine Alpha takers, no doubt.
On a MM, just tap your "Bodyguard" bind and run in and toebomb them with Poison Trap, or toss down 'trops.
Their tohit debuff is pants, in the order of 5%. Their perception debuff is pants since it gets overwritten as soon as you attack. Their AI is pants because they don't home in very reliably (utterly pants in PvP). Their -damage is about the only thing they have going for them, it's -40% if both hit (technically you can make this perma if you have some global +recharge set bonuses) but with Bodyguard plus FFG you don't need it in the slightest in PvE even up against AVs. And as already mentioned, the AI makes them completely pants in PvP.
If I'm in desperate need of an alpha-taker on my MM, I'll throw down an Acid Mortar. At least the Mortar inflicts a bit of -resistance while it's sitting there taking next to zero damage from a mob of +3s... 
Currently my /traps is sitting at about 45% Defence for both the MM and the pets though. So I rarely need to do anything in PvE apart from resummon FFG when it dies, use Web Envelope and hit my "attack" key. I still get a kick out of the Assault Bot's missile double-WHOOSH on every mob though...
When my pets DO start taking damage, throwing down a triage beacon keeps them all nicely topped up. I rarely need to worry about using "Aid Other" on them individually, even when I'm not bothering to use Poison Trap.
Personally I'd rate the /traps powers in descending order of uberness for a MM as: FFG, Poison Trap, Caltrops, Web Grenade, Trip Mine, Triage Beacon, Acid Mortar, Detonator, Seeker Drones. As a Bots/ I get more use out of Triage Beacon than Trip mines though...
I just use several alpha's all the time, detonator lich attack, acid mortar corner pull, calltrops-go-crazy, i noticed the FFG is sometimes quite slow on following, they mez me before the FFG catched up.
Variation makes it more 'fun' to continue wacking, sometimes i just lay down a carpet of trip mines and pull a group.
(funny how you can let pet attack -targeted- without them going out of defensive stance)
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Nothing wrong with it in pvp, or in pve.
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(funny how you can let pet attack -targeted- without them going out of defensive stance)
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Does that keep you in bodyguard mode? I wasnt sure about that?
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Ok! I bet ppl have loong threads about this already but..
GRRR! Why oh why can't posion poison trap be like traps poison trap. The huuuuuge interrupt time makes it worthless in any fight and it seem to hit waaayyy less than traps poison trap too. Cm'on devs, make them equal, make them both traps style!
...now!