PvP and waste of time on it from the Devs
By
Dark_Blasphemy_EU,
Posted on: 2007-03-28 09:14 in Everything about PvP
Tbh totally if they had rearranged the servers to PvP and PvE and open up factional PvP allowing all PvPers from all 4 EU servers to move there that would be great.
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Tbh totally if they had rearranged the servers to PvP and PvE and open up factional PvP allowing all PvPers from all 4 EU servers to move there that would be great.
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Ill go with you on that one 
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Tbh totally if they had rearranged the servers to PvP and PvE and open up factional PvP allowing all PvPers from all 4 EU servers to move there that would be great.
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Ill go with you on that one
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Worldwide test server FTW. Any name problems could be sorted with server tags after name. Bitter Ice(UN)=union etc
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Do you feel that the Devs have wasted effort on PvP?Do you feel it is a waste that PvP exists? Do you feel that the majority defines that everything but PvE is a waste?
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Personally, I think PvP is a ton'o fun, heck, I'll even go so far as to say pvp in wow was dead funny. Problem for me, with pvp in CoH is that the state it's in is a waste of effort. To clarify; It should be there, but it should have been implemented in a completely different way.
Also, the type of combat coh sports lends a lot more to pve than pvp. In wow it is the other way, where the combat is so slow it just gets boring pve, but is just right for pvp. CoH has WAY too many powers, they cover much too big an aspect of a character's build and they have entirely too short recharge.
And the travel powers probably ruin pvp in coh the most for me.
Anyway. This is my opinion, and if *someone* doesn't agree, then Go You! 
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Top-tier large-team Arena fighting - which I presume is what you're talking about given the content of your post, but correct me if I've misunderstood - is a pretty specialised form of PvP that pretty much requires a "perfect" make-up with regard to powersets. Melee types are pretty much overlooked completely, MMs are unwieldy in all but very small teams, and Doms are a bit of a wildcard that most people don't want to risk playing - when it all boils down to a question of highest (ranged) damage and best buffers/debuffers, it's not really surprising that you end up with teams of Blasters, Defenders, Controllers (overwhelmingly Ill/* at that) and the odd Corruptor.
That's not to say that Villains are any weaker in (more casual) zonal PvP, which I'd tender is where the majority of PvP takes place in CoX - they just don't provide the best buffs, so they often don't get a look-in for Arena (at that level). Fact is, most Zonal PvP tends to see a swing in the balance of power between Heroes and Villains, which says to me that whilst things are not and will not ever be perfectly balanced (because that would be [censored] impossible), they're balanced enough for the purpose.
$.02
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Same teams can play in either arena or zones, so there is nothing to stop an arena, or arenaish team from coming in to wipe the zones. On top of that I dont see why other AT's can be left unwanted in the arena if the game is really all that balanced.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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PVP was here in CoH back in the Alpha stages, there is a video on youtube somewhere
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Could you back that up with a link, please? I can't find anything.
I'm not going to reply to the OP. It's such an obvious straw man rant that there's no valid reply.
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PVP was here in CoH back in the Alpha stages, there is a video on youtube somewhere
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Could you back that up with a link, please? I can't find anything.
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I don't know the link, but I can confirm seeing it - it was posted here sometime last year, I think - it was a video presentation by Jack Emmert, showcasing features of Cryptic's new game - it had quite a bit of weird stuff in it, like when you opened doors, you'd see what was behind them, instead of just going into a black square like we do now - it also had a targeting system for different areas of the enemy's body, which would have been fun if they'd kept it 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
So, basically, a totally different game had PvP in it?
Would this be the same one with no AT system which was scrapped because everyone made tank/mages?
Be an interesting video to see though.
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I remember the thread about that vid. It was interesting. The conclusion was that PvP had been planned for since the start of CoH.
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I remember the thread about that vid. It was interesting. The conclusion was that PvP had been planned for since the start of CoH.
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Didnt someone post that like a few days ago? I think its on the suggestions board somewhere.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
The Search system on these forums sucks big time. I tried finding it, but I think I'll be happier if someone knows which thread it was in and I can go hunt it down, or the original guy can give me a link on YouTube.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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The Search system on these forums sucks big time. I tried finding it, but I think I'll be happier if someone knows which thread it was in and I can go hunt it down, or the original guy can give me a link on YouTube.
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Check the post above you.
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The Search system on these forums sucks big time. I tried finding it, but I think I'll be happier if someone knows which thread it was in and I can go hunt it down, or the original guy can give me a link on YouTube.
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Check the post above you.
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Your ninja-stealth-posting-fu is strong, young one. 
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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I remember the thread about that vid. It was interesting. The conclusion was that PvP had been planned for since the start of CoH.
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Okay, I watched it.
I wish I was playing that instead of what we have. Wow that looks like a really stunning game! Unfortunately most of the really amazing ideas got chucked out before implementation, and saying that PvP 'was designed for' based on that is failing to understand either the software industry or marketing. You'll notice there isn't actually a demo of PvP in there? PvP was on the features list, the very way it has been implemented suggests it wasn't designed into the game.
Another way of looking at it is, yes, PvP was designed in from scratch. However, it was designed into an RPG with FPS elements which had gadgets, seven origins, etc. PvP was actually implemented in a totally different game so it might as well not have been thought of in the original version.
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Get a thermal in there and you won't hold your own against a few villains :P
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lrn2readkthx
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'cel and I have held our own as a villain duo numerous times
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@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
I think the Dev's chose to work on PvE first but always intended putting PvP in. Probably due to limited resources they couldn't do both at the same time without delaying the release of the game.
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I think the Dev's chose to work on PvE first but always intended putting PvP in. Probably due to limited resources they couldn't do both at the same time without delaying the release of the game.
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Two ways of looking at it:
1. Yes, the 'intended to put it in', but that isn't the same as 'it was designed in'. That's what I said in my last post.
2. Actually, considering what they say about the game in the video, the whole design philosophy changed between then and the game's release. The game in that video was massively more complex than CoH was on release, and even more complex than CoX now is, or will be after I9. The original design may have had PvP in it, but that isn't the game they implemented, so saying it was 'intended to be there from the start' isn't relevent.
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Inventions and Villains weren't designed into the game. They brought in ED to prepare for them though. Even ED wasn't in the game on release. They intended to balance the game at some point and planned it for over half a year. They are in now, same as PvP so they must have designed them all at some point. I get the impression they didn't have much clue how effective some powers would be as they are to this day monitoring and balancing them based on data and player feedback.
Humbly, PvP is more suited to the more FPS-style system we see in the video. PvP in a game with the gameplay style we see here in the live system is never going to satisfy real PvPers because there's no real player skill in the combat. The best the player can do is make up for deficiencies in his build by knowing when to do X, or how to move well in combat.
On the other hand, it is an excellent environment for PKers since it's quite possible to have a toon or team of toons which can gank just about anything without having any real skill.
You can always change the design of software to reflect changes in what it is required to do. However, some things are best if they are taken into account in the core design. I honestly believe that PvP could have been a huge amount better, if it had been designed into the core functionality. As it is, I don't think that's the case, and the video does not prove in any way that I'm wrong. It simply states that PvP was on a very, very big feature list, most of which got left on the shelf.
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Yet strangely there is still skill involved in PvP or you would be good at it Build and knowledge on how things work only get you so far.
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Yet strangely there is still skill involved in PvP or you would be good at it
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I don't deny that, point of fact, I said that. Now tell me there's any skill required to hit anything in PvP... Oh, and I've never been in a PvP ZOne with a build a PvPer would even consider taking in against a PvP build. I know, they've all told me how sucky my build is.
Player skill is possible to get into a game like this. I worked something out last night when I was thinking about something else. But in reality, it would be unrealistic if skill did play much of a part. How could you possibly be as skilled as your character? S/He is supposed to be superhuman!
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CoX requires less mouse clicking or targetting skills than most games. The skills that i'd say you need, is good reaction times in pressing buttons. Being able to follow what is happening on screen. Team work/communication and coordination. Making split second decisions and finally thinking ahead.
Just wondering - have you ever played with a PvPer that was good at PvP and bad at PvE?
They dont put a lot of time in PVP they haven't even fixed the arena yet.