Need Advice on my 1st Tank Plz :- - - -
Hi Flush,
Not that sure about fire melee as my fire tank is not that far along yet, it does seem to do nice damage. A lot of the attacks are AoE however so you may be most effective against packed groups.
Invincibility is a nice armour it's best against smashing/lethal damage and has good defence when your packed into the middle of a group.
It will certainly be an unusual choice but would be very effective against massed mobs I think.
I'm only an occasional PvPer, but I can tell you that Energy Melee is generally considered to be the PvP melee set for Tankers - it has a lot of high-damage single-target attacks with a great secondary effect (stun), and is of a damage type that is not so easily resisted.
Although Fire damage is hard to resist, Fire Melee has no useful PvP secondary effect, and lacks major punch in its single-target attacks. IMO it's a great PvE set, but not what you want for serious PvP.
Super Strength seems to be reasonable for PvP too - Rage and KO blow are both very good, but it's all smashing damage which is very commonly resisted.
I can't really say too much about armours, except that I don't rate Fiery Aura for PvP (not enough overall defensive capacity for PvP, nor anything much else to really sell it, other than effectively stacked build up), nor really Invulnerability (not the best defensive set, and Invincibility relies on having multiple enemies very close, which simply doesn't happen in PvP).
Stone has a good rep in PvP in that it's very challenging to kill a Granite-Formed tanker (usually requiring good debuffs and multiple attackers); however Granite does lower offensive capability.
I hope that medley of comments helps you somewhat.
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1 - Is Fire on Tanker's still Badly Nerfed??
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Fire Melee was never nerfed . . well more than any other because of ED. Fire Sword Circle and Combustion are awesome in PvE and Greater Fire Sword has the same damage as Total Focus and Knockout blow but generally fire is less resisted.
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2 - Was Invincability a good choise??
(I Want to be a DMG Dealer Mainly, who can PvP)
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If you want to damage chose Fire Aura but Invul can PvP just fine.
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3 - If i made the wrong choise which should i choose??
As i stated above I Want to be a DMG Dealer who can PvP & is able to solo without worrying about End to much.
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Invul/Fire wouldnt work in sirens at all but could be workable in Warburg and RV although you would make it hard for yourself. If you still want Fire Melee to be serious in PvP you have to take Fire Aura, but if you want to be a damage dealing tank that can solo Fire/SS would be a better bet if you ask me (Fire/Energy Melee is awesome although practially impossible to solo until 35+ at least)
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4 - If Fire/Invincable is a good Build, could any 1 plz post any tip's, Sugestions & Build's if it's not to much trouble & You can spare the time.
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Nothing wrong with it in PvE but nothing special in PvP and awful in Sirens.
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
Firstly, there is little in this game thats nerfed (Jump Kick, Im looking at you), so dont fret. However, different sets are good for different things.
If you want to PvP or Solo a lot, you want single target attacks (Superstrength and Energy great for this, Fire is probably the worst).
If you want to PvE in teams, AoE damage is king (especially for a tank). Fire is the best, SS/Energy the worst.
So if you want to be a "Damage Dealer" there is no real answer. You will do the MOST damage by taking Fire attacks and being in an 8 man PvE group.
Its worth mentioning /Ice attacks are probably the lowest damage in the lot, but will make you MUCH tougher to kill, due to ice patch.
With regards to primary:
FIre armour will give you the most damage of the lot, but is probably the least tough of the lot too. Its a good choice for solo/small teams as you wont need to be super tough and the extra damage comes in handy. Its good in big teams too (AoE damage), but you will need more support to survive than the other sets.
Stone is solid protection, good for PvE. Your handicap is making you less mobile which is tough in PvP. Granite armour, the teir 9 power is special: You will be the toughest tank around at the penalty of vastly decreased mobility and significant damage output penalties. /Granite in PvP is a bit of a waste of time. Nobody will attack you, because it takes so flipping long to take you down, but on the other hand, you wont be able to attack anyone either being so slow (and even if you do its at a penalty). A bit pointless in PvP is my opinion, because you wont actually be fighting anyone.
/INvun is a pretty solid set. It gets more powerful (in terms of defence and accuracy) the more enemies you are facing, so its a good set for PvE and biggish teams.
/Ice is another solid set. It has some damage potential (in Icicles) but rather weak. Like invun, it gets stronger the more enemies you face, although not to quite the extent that invun does (this is the energy absorbtion power). It is also the best aggro grabber in the game. Its final power, Hibernate is rather rubbish in PvE, but fantastic in PvP. The ability of ice tanks to slow enemies and to resist slows is attractive in PvP.
...anyways....
For PvP, I understand Ice/Energy is considered one of the strongest, combining mobility, slows, resilance, single target effects, and Hibernate. It wont shine until the late 30's however when you get Hibernate, Energy Transfer and Total Focus.
For PvE, if you want to be a damage dealer, it depends: in Big groups you probably want Fire/Fire, although anything/Fire is probably good. If in smaller teams, I would probably say Fire/EM, or Fire/SS.
As a Invun/Fire, Id say you would be a solid tank, with very good damage potential, but needing Big PvE teams to shine.
All pointers, mind. Good luck with tanking, and dont miss taunt!
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As i stated above I Want to be a DMG Dealer who can PvP & is able to solo without worrying about End to much.
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Oh, and with regards to endurance, Ice and Fire both have inbuilt end recovery powers (Energy absorbtion and Comsume), which may make them more attractive to you. They dont work particularly well solo or PvP, however (the more enemies near you, the more you get).
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Hi Guyz, I just made my 1st Tanker, the Build i picked was :-
Fire Melee/Invincability. I have a couple of questions before i continue to lvlup.
1 - Is Fire on Tanker's still Badly Nerfed??
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Not really. In fact Tank's Burn is getting a slight recharge buff soon (is on test atm).
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2 - Was Invincability a good choise??
(I Want to be a DMG Dealer Mainly, who can PvP)
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INV does nothing for damage, in PvP it's ok but nothing special (Fire and Ice are generally better).
Invunerability's main PvP selling point would be repel protection in Unyielding.
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3 - If i made the wrong choise which should i choose??
As i stated above I Want to be a DMG Dealer who can PvP & is able to solo without worrying about End to much.
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As stated INV will do nothing for damage, Fire is the best damage-orientated primary. INV has no recovery powers or endurance drains, so some builds can be very heavy on endurance. Fire is the best AoE damage secondary, but it's not very solo friendly and is not great in PvP.
To be honest a "soloer with good endurance, good damage output and decent at PvP" suggests you'd have better luck trying a Regen scrapper. If you're dead set on a tanker, a Fire/Ice Primary with a SS/EM Secondary will be much more solo-friendly builds and will generally fare better in PvP.
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4 - If Fire/Invincable is a good Build, could any 1 plz post any tip's, Sugestions & Build's if it's not to much trouble & You can spare the time.
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INV/Fire is a good combo, but it will be quite heavy on endurance and is best suited to team PvE.
INV is a solid resistance set, making you very tough against the most common forms of damage (smashing and lethal) and granting good evasion to other damage types (except psionic). INV works best in the middle of a tightly packed group of enemies because of the evasion bonuses from "Invincibility".
Fire is a AoE damage set, allowing you to cause large amounts of damage to groups of tightly-packed enemies. It is less effective against single targets, making it harder to take down a Boss than several minions.
The advantage of Fire is AoE damage, and INV works best in the middle of big groups of enemies... therefore you'll thrive in the middle of mobs on big PvE teams. It's really not that great a toon for PvP though...
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Not really. In fact Tank's Burn is getting a slight recharge buff soon (is on test atm).
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Thats true but theres still no change to fear factor and therefor unless your fire/ice or on a team with someone who can lock down mobs its still not the power it was soon as you drop it the mobs will run a mile away from you.
Fire/inv or fire/ice would be the best way to go imo
Thx for the great advice every 1, so far i have settled for Fire/inv imo its a pretty good PvE combo, iv yet to try & PvP though.
I am still also considering trying out Fire/Ice (Coz im an Altaholic). Because from what i gather that would be a good PvP combo T.B.C. . . .>
only pvp's a little bit on my fire tank in sirens and vs 2 dominators and 2 masterminds CJ was being overpowered, burn was very very useful here.
also what is amusing is mastermnd pets will just stand in the burn patch without running away
@ExtraGonk
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Thx for the great advice every 1, so far i have settled for Fire/inv imo its a pretty good PvE combo, iv yet to try & PvP though.
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I think you mean Inv/Fire Inv is a pretty alrounder in PvP, fire has lesser potential, even lesser resisted it has no 'big power' to use.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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I am still also considering trying out Fire/Ice (Coz im an Altaholic). Because from what i gather that would be a good PvP combo T.B.C. . . .>
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If you mean Fire Aura/Ice Melee... /Ice is the worst secondary for PvP because it lacks damage.
If you mean Ice Armor/Fire Melee... /Fire still suffers from a lack of burst damage. Super Strength and Energy Melee are generally thought of as the "best choices" for PvP, with SS being better at 30 (Sirens call) and EM being better at 38+ (Warburg/RV/Arena).
LOL ! Yes Sry Inv/Fire.
Would you guy's Sugest - Inv/EnergyMelee??
Or is there a better PvE-PvP Build??
Sorry for all the questions guys but i need to know before i decide to delete or not.
PS.> I DONT Want to me Granite, Too Slow & Vey Bulky, it doesnt suit my style of play.
TY For every Post so far, lol plz keep them coming .
To be honest Ice/EM is pretty much the cookie cutter in PvP, and Ice tanks can do very well in PvE.
It's somewhat FOTM ("Flavour of the Month") though, so you might want to look at a different Primary.
Super Strength and Energy Melee are the two "PvP secondaries". You should be able to make any primary apart from Stone work decently in both PvE and PvP: INV has repel protection, Ice has slow/recharge protection, Fire has the regular self heal and a "second Build Up".
How about; FA/SS?
Nice quick attacks from SS, KO'Blow is great, Handclap a real lifesaver and Rage. Mainly single target but what the hey you got FA.
FA gives you healing flames (now wonderful with the reduced recharge), Flaming Aura (great for PvE), Consume for end replenishment and Fiery Embrace for even more damage!
Rage+Firey Embrace+KO'Blow = bliss.
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How about; FA/SS?
Nice quick attacks from SS, KO'Blow is great, Handclap a real lifesaver and Rage. Mainly single target but what the hey you got FA.
FA gives you healing flames (now wonderful with the reduced recharge), Flaming Aura (great for PvE), Consume for end replenishment and Fiery Embrace for even more damage!
Rage+Firey Embrace+KO'Blow = bliss.
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OMG! I never thaught of that 1, TY!
But instead on SS, (mainly because it is slow animation time) would Energy Melee be better, or about the same as they are both PvP Secondary's from what i gather??
Also Ice/EM Sound's awsome BUT! also is there much of a difference in the Primary's?? I know Obviously that Fire would do more Dmg potential, but Ice can slow powers (or can they?).
TYVM EVRY 1
Ice has Chilling Embrace which will slow and -recharge enemies nearby. But more importantly it also resists slows and -recharge, as well as being defence based which means that other debuffs can miss you completely... and it has one of the best panic buttons in "Hibernate".
You could think of it as: Ice/ is more survivable, Fire/ is more damaging.
Hi Flush,
My thoughts are thus:
I know you like PvP... Fire is pretty awesome in PvE as it is great at aggro/control of bad guys. That's not so useful in PvP.
Also, what with all the toggles (you'll NEED to take Acrobatics in addition to your inherent toggles and you'll more than likely want Toughness, as without, you're not much of a tank), you'll run out of End fairly quickly if you have an end-heavy offensive set (like EM). Consume is a good power, sure, but its only really any good when you are tackling multiple mobs and that's not normally the case in PvP.
IMO, Inv or Ice is the way to go for PvP tankers. Inv is good against everything and I would recommend it. Ice has some great tweaks to it and is also a good set.
As for attack...Energy is amazing and currently flavour of the month, specifically for the Stuns. It doesn't really come in to its own as a truly great set until level 35 and 38, whereupon you get TWO Extreme Damage attacks (Energy Transfer being the earlier and better power).
I'm not particularly enarmored of Fire or Ice or even Stone, but the latter or Super Strength might be an option.
Definitely, Inv or Ice + Energy or Super Strength seems the way to go for more PvP orientated builds.
But with PvP in mind, Rage is awesome and FA is the only primary with a +Damage power in it.
To get maximum burst damage go FA. To be more survivable go Ice.
Chilling Embrace also gives a -13% to incoming damage as well as the slow and for that alone is awesome.
Ok . . . . Since i cant make up my mind yet PLUS I'm an altacolic, i have made 2, a Ice Aura/Super Strength & Fire Aura/ Energy Melee.
So far they are pretty balanced, but i find with the Fire Aura/Energy Melee so far runs out of end quicker but does a little more damage, how they do in PvP i will keep you updated because they are both only lvl 16 atm.
thx for the tip's guyz!!!
If your willing to be an oldschool tank, I'd suggest Inv/Ice. You'll be doing crappy damage but your survivability will be outstanding thanks to Ice Patch. I'm starting one myself whenever I feel in the mood to tank again.
@False Fiction - Virtue / Defiant
Current projects - [Glaciologist - Ill/Cold Troller] [Cloudshaper - Storm/Dark Def] [Harald Wartooth - Elec/Psi Domi]
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I know you like PvP... Fire is pretty awesome in PvE as it is great at aggro/control of bad guys. That's not so useful in PvP.
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This isnt quite true. After the healing flames change Fiery aura's usefulness in PVP went up like an order of magnitude. I dont think its far from being considered the best PVP tank primary.. Ice still has useful stuff like chilling embrace to interrupt stalkers etc, but fire might be even more unkillable..
It is however true that Fiery aura will require leaping pool and acrobatics but thats not much of a hindrance in pvp, as leaping is good.
I wonder how useful Burn would be in PvP...
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I wonder how useful Burn would be in PvP...
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It works way better on FA Brutes. However, any good PvPer will just walk away from that deadly patch right after it is activated.
@False Fiction - Virtue / Defiant
Current projects - [Glaciologist - Ill/Cold Troller] [Cloudshaper - Storm/Dark Def] [Harald Wartooth - Elec/Psi Domi]
Just a mention about Burn... it's in the Firey Aura set, not Firey Melee.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
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Hi Guyz, I just made my 1st Tanker, the Build i picked was :-
Fire Melee/Invincability. I have a couple of questions before i continue to lvlup.
1 - Is Fire on Tanker's still Badly Nerfed??
2 - Was Invincability a good choise??
(I Want to be a DMG Dealer Mainly, who can PvP)
3 - If i made the wrong choise which should i choose??
As i stated above I Want to be a DMG Dealer who can PvP & is able to solo without worrying about End to much.
4 - If Fire/Invincable is a good Build, could any 1 plz post any tip's, Sugestions & Build's if it's not to much trouble & You can spare the time.
TY Every 1
I'll Check back soon .