I am sorry, am I irritating you?
If he said he was always the team leader of his team and perhaps someone who decides on a team dynamic would it be different?
The "healer" in question is probably not even bothered (got to 50 quick) and happy to be acknowledged as "there".
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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If he said he was always the team leader of his team and perhaps someone who decides on a team dynamic would it be different?
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Some team dynamic to kamikaze a room of 30 or more CoT on a stalker, bring on a teamwipe, then boast "THERE!! AT LEAST I DID SOMETHING INSTEAD OF TALKING!!!!". All this while blaming the guy who said "wow thats a lot! Do you think we should pull them, i have a very long range attack".
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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If he said he was always the team leader of his team and perhaps someone who decides on a team dynamic would it be different?
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Some team dynamic to kamikaze a room of 30 or more CoT on a stalker, bring on a teamwipe, then boast "THERE!! AT LEAST I DID SOMETHING INSTEAD OF TALKING!!!!". All this while blaming the guy who said "wow thats a lot! Do you think we should pull them, i have a very long range attack".
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Last night's short lived team:
After doing one mission, where the aforementioned individual stood around chatting during it, but not taking part (apparently afk still means you can chat, but not take part; must have missed that one), we entered the next mission where the TL said "Everyone be careful."
I responded, "Careful's my middle name " and his immediate response was "No, your middle name is coward."
Not wanting to put up with this, I quickly leave the team and he follows me out the mission, private telling me how much fun he's going to have putting this up on the forums and that I was now on his ignore list, "along with all the Paragon Defenders...?! Yeah, because I care who else you've got on your ignore list, why?
Given that I did nothing more than I've stated here, I found this attitude nothing short of dreadful.
If he can lead a successful team then I suspect we have a different criteria of what "success" is.
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
Im sorry you had to suffer such ludicrous behaviour, MA
Also to anyone else on that team.
I prob would have left as soon as he said that. Good team spirt plays a good part in any team.
Well it was a rhetorical question, i think if its the same guy after being invited to the team I was on one day someone said pass star pls and kicked him before he even made it to the mission. I havent met him.
If its the same person its the one who grieved on a defiant hami raid. I dont do alot on Defiant and so am not that knowledgeable of Defiant players. Union and Vigilance are more me.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I have seen something similar to this before. On one occasion playing my tank I was invited to a team by a granite tank, who thought he was the be all and end all of the team. He was constantly ordering people around and consequently I felt I was only there to give him more enemies to herd as I haden't been able to 'tank'. When I asked if I could try and tank for a while he ignored me so I went ahead and tested the water. After a successful herd, he sent tells to the rest of the team and told them to stop playing and stand around, as he felt I wasen't cooperating. After completing the mission (single handedly ) I left.
I'm not comparing you to this tank, but I understand the general feeling of uselessness that the Scrapper may have been going through.
Having played a granite tank myself, I found that because they are so strong (and overpowered IMO), there is little need for adaptation because the herd and kill tactic works so well, so naturally the barking of orders to team mates becomes almost subconscious. It's this aspect that made me get rid of my granite tank as once the novelty of being 'uber' goes away, your left with a boring, one- power- wonder.
I can relate to both you and the scrapper, on this one.
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After a successful herd, he sent tells to the rest of the team and told them to stop playing and stand around, as he felt I wasen't cooperating.
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Huh? I can't believe anyone would do such a thing. Thats really sad.
I have a stoner tank, I'm basing it around my brothers - which he gets a lot of praise for. When I play mine (which I haven't in ages) I try to tank as best I can but anyone can help. 2 heads are better then 1 right?
I've not incounterd such things as whats been said on here and some amaze me. Its only a game but it seems like some get a 'power trip' just from playing it.
I dont tank with other tanks so might i just say it wasnt me . Although i have duo'd with freedom as shan (whose inuln anyway) against malta with carnie mish as he was lovely enough to show me how to do a safeguard mission.
People can take turns on herding but it is better if the other tank knows whats going on first imo. If a lvl 45 Granite tank brought all he could handle to a even more tauntful lvl 45 firetank then there could be problems. So auras are best not crossing for a start. Its really good if both tanks know what the other one is doing and they cooperate with eachother fairly and allow eachother to tank on their own terms. You make a tank and so ya may aswell tank with it.
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so naturally the barking of orders to team mates becomes almost subconscious.
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Barking orders? I thought it was letting the team know of your intentions. I as my blaster am only interested in what angle i can best use my cones from mainly. I am not looking for any nearby nems with their high perception as I am keen to keep the fight duration down and so i too need to be aware some of the time. An obvious herdpoint to me may not be the one chosen. Alot of people may not understand from not having tanks, taunt control or certain methods and why they are used.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Oh dear, I always get reminded why I dont do much pick-up-groups or people..
Sorry to hear you had to experience that sort of behaviour Aardy.
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Oh dear, I always get reminded why I dont do much pick-up-groups or people..
Sorry to hear you had to experience that sort of behaviour Aardy.
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I can hear you there. Sometimes a pick-up group can be the worst thing you do, to yourself or your team-mates. Some people often forgets what's the mean of being a team. As some of you know i am fairly new to this game, actually to the online games. I find myself thinking if i am wasting my time and money over this [censored], after the payed period ends maybe i should give up. But than a person come with a pick up group. A team player, one that knows what he or she is doing. It is frustrating i know but there are still very good persons out there. While using pick up groups you often team up with same persons also. So you became kinda unofficial SG.
Okay here's a conffession. When i first started to play this game i was thinking all the low level characters are newbies. But in time i learned that they can be veterans. But amazingly they listen me without question. Of course they give their opinions (Actually the first duo that scold me is my best and beloved friends now). In a times like that i always remind myself that. What if i came a cross with a jerk, there are plenty of good people to hang out with.
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If he said he was always the team leader of his team and perhaps someone who decides on a team dynamic would it be different?
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Some team dynamic to kamikaze a room of 30 or more CoT on a stalker, bring on a teamwipe, then boast "THERE!! AT LEAST I DID SOMETHING INSTEAD OF TALKING!!!!". All this while blaming the guy who said "wow thats a lot! Do you think we should pull them, i have a very long range attack".
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Last night's short lived team:
After doing one mission, where the aforementioned individual stood around chatting during it, but not taking part (apparently afk still means you can chat, but not take part; must have missed that one), we entered the next mission where the TL said "Everyone be careful."
I responded, "Careful's my middle name " and his immediate response was "No, your middle name is coward."
Not wanting to put up with this, I quickly leave the team and he follows me out the mission, private telling me how much fun he's going to have putting this up on the forums and that I was now on his ignore list, "along with all the Paragon Defenders...?! Yeah, because I care who else you've got on your ignore list, why?
Given that I did nothing more than I've stated here, I found this attitude nothing short of dreadful.
If he can lead a successful team then I suspect we have a different criteria of what "success" is.
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How can anyone really behave like that?!
what server is he on, in case i need to watch myself
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Having played a granite tank myself, I found that because they are so strong (and overpowered IMO), there is little need for adaptation because the herd and kill tactic works so well, so naturally the barking of orders to team mates becomes almost subconscious. It's this aspect that made me get rid of my granite tank as once the novelty of being 'uber' goes away, your left with a boring, one- power- wonder.
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See, that's where you went wrong. It's a stone tank - not a granite tank. They have plenty of other (underpowered) armours that make them interesting to play. Well, for me anyway.
Personally I never herd. Strategically pull sometimes but never herd. TP to centre of spawn - jobs a good'un.
Uh oh i missed that one. Holy [censored]. I totally agree with Lost Samurai and the MA.
Here's an example from my last nite adventuring session. Most of you know there's mish "Inflirate the Arachnos Base". In mish details and by the contact it is mentioned well that you must act secretly. I told it to the leader (i already did this mission before) he agreed. But before he say something others rushed in. Than big bang they started dying constantly. I jumped in and start yelling everyone out while i am invisibile and running for the complete the mish. But their aggro hit me as well i died two times but manage to get two codes. Than while they are wasting their lives as i understood they need action i said "everyone stay close to door" this time but they didn't listen as well. While they are fighting still i've got other codes and mission completed. Was it cowardish? or is a bit of know what to do and using mind instead of powers.
Maybe through my carreer people will think i am a coward or boring because of my leading or playing style. Yeah it's hurt most of the time but as i mentioned time and time again, when heroes get into my team my first and most important mission is keeping them alive. When i say it people don't care. I know what they are thinking but being a defender (a bubbler and with PFF, Invisibility and TP i am hard to hurt) thought me that.
And one more thing about team ups. I don't know if it ever happen to you, when people in team dies they leave the team. This is the biggest hit to the leaders ego. Firstly me or they feel quilty. Incapable, shamed and sorry. When you signed on a team if the leader doing the best he can do, leaving the team to its own fate is the real cowardly behavior. Maybe i am wrong but we are playing heroes out there and heroism means sacrifice. And when a hard mission completed with many deaths it will make me feel more proud. I feel like we beat the impossible odds and win the day.
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But amazingly they listen me without question. Of course they give their opinions (Actually the first duo that scold me is my best and beloved friends now). In a times like that i always remind myself that. What if i came a cross with a jerk, there are plenty of good people to hang out with.
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Yes, that is why I still do pick up groups occasionally ^^ Just not all the time.
Well things have changed (yet again) now that my granite tank is lvl 43. I have both taunt and provoke (thanks freak for your lessons in tanking!!!) in my arsenal and my team comments have gone from verbose to one simple sentence: pulling to this corner. I dont consider this herding, since I always only bring one spawn (unless by team request they all feel the need to blow their novas and see who lives).
Last night I was running with a team that did 3 large missions on a crey arc (large as in 8 man team, huge mob spawns). After the first few pulls to a corner and people seeing how effective it was, we fell into a rythm. Blasters and scrappers and Khelds would wait till the mobs were all on top of me, tightly packed at the corner before killing them all. Soon they saw that it allowed me to taunt and provoke mobs running at them out of the mass since I could easily react quick enough before they took a hit.
On the 4th mission a ill/storm troller joins up and starts running ahead and trying to be mr invincible. After a few deaths while we all watched he stopped. Next up, he stayed close to the pulling action with his little army and as soon as the mobs came in range they would of course be intercepted by the see through army and scatter the tight pack before even getting to the corner. This obviously lead to some deaths and close deaths as reaction time on taunts and provokes was severly slowed down when people were fighting mobs all over the place. As creative as I think I am with TP and can bounce around a room like a travelling taunt show, it still is slow and one hit from a caped paragon protector means a dead squishy.
Next thing I asked nicely that he stand back and keep his army till the mobs were all on me. Of course this gets me the following comment: "Why dont you just TP into the middle of a spawn and tank them there? No need to group them close like you do."
Of course my answer was (while everyone waited patiently) most of the crey mobs were preferring ranged attacks, this meant that TPing into them would just make them scatter. I also told him that both my taunts were cones and taunting spread mobs was very difficult.
This didnt solve the problem, as he didnt seem to listen. He left after dying more than a few more times, he found out that pets aggroing incoming mobs made the mobs aggro him when the pets went down, something he didnt believe until it happened to him a few times.
So now the only irritating thing I say to a team is "pulling to corner", if people dont see how effective that is, then they end up being kicked by the team leader (not me) for causing others to die, or they leave because of their own deaths.
To also make another point: I believe that most stone tanks get a little bored with the power that is granite and the frustration that is the slowly growing taunt button. I find creative uses of TP a great reliever of this boredom. While my taunt and provoke buttons are still growing (especially when you walk on a carpet of Artemis caltrops), I port around the room, taunting with my mud pots. One interesting trick I learned from a friend (thanks Lucy Shine!) is that you can cue TP locations, 2 of them at least. This means that once you have clicked on a port location, you have some time before the animation finishes to click on your next location. This means that you can pull off seemingly impossible ports. Example, (using shift click bind), click in the middle of a mob, then click next to you behind the corner and sit back. BAMF (sorry marvel) you pop into the mob, your pots does some damage, BAMF you pop behind the corner, which is out of line of sight of your first port point. Now most people go: WOW, how did you do that? Technically it is impossible to see behind that corner from there you first appear. Now imagine the creative uses for this little trick. Room of death: pop into mob, pop under walkway and wait, Boxes: pop into mob, pop behind a box. Awesome fun! I hear it is possible to cue a taunt as you land and before you pop out again, my connection is 500ms and have rarely gotten this one right.
As you can see, I have had a good ride so far as a GA tank, listening to people and their suggestions, this has given me so much to use. I would never have gotten all these tricks if I was close minded and thought I was a granite god.
Thanks to all mentioned above for your awesome help!
@Boerewors
Great tactic that you gave there for the porters. Maybe i'll try it tonite. Of course i am not a tanker but a FF defender, very close to it.
I love the idea of that tactic - think the next time I roll a tank, I'll give it a try.
Thanks for the heads up.
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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but back to the original question: i do understand why some people are a bit wary of stone tanks, with my kin def it does get irritating when a tank shouts for speedy, mid battle whilst you're in the process of doing other equally useful things... like healing or buff/debuffing.
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as long as your in range and have line of sight you should be able to speed boost a individual in under 2 seconds and be straight back to your buffing. if your having problems with this then you may want to consider setting up some binds. i use the num pad to select the character and then numpad 0 to speed boost. if you want a copy of the bind fil send me a pm
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they wouldnt make awakens if you werent supposed to faceplant occasionally, would they?
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exactly
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So now the only irritating thing I say to a team is "pulling to corner", if people dont see how effective that is, then they end up being kicked by the team leader (not me) for causing others to die, or they leave because of their own deaths.
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I'm going to play Devils Advocate here. I understand that your method is both effective and efficient, as well as being necessary when up against particularly tough foes. However, some people like to have some element of chaos in missions. I, for one, would get very bored, very fast if my team only did the exact same thing over and over again.
Of course, there are many different play styles, some better than others; but efficiency and effectiveness doesn't necessarily equate to fun.
Maybe it's just me, or it could be the fact that I play predominantly on villains - where the team has to keep going at a constant pace in order to keep up a head of steam (making full use of Fury and Domination etc); But unless the mission is especially tough I find this method of play rather dull.
Of course, and as is ever true, the above is only my opinion
I agree with Blind here. When I'm tanking I really hate corner pulling on every mob... it bores my teammates, slows us down and is usually an unnecessary amount of caution. I much prefer either teleporting or jumping into the mob and working with it "pre-herded". It's much faster, and the scrappers will love you for it.
However if I get into a situation where doing that with a mob would pose a danger to my team (another mob very nearby, linking AV, "room of death", etc.) then by all means I'd pull it around a corner and anyone who complained would be heading for a kicking (either figuratively or literally...)
Your methods and experience is similar to mine. I would of wanted to kick the controller quite frankly as i dont put up with people who wont try to assist others for too long.
There is a good use of a power and good positioning and then there is misuse of a power and bad positioning (unless getting ppl done in is your intention).
I think people should talk in teams especially PuGs and establish tactics. I am a part RPer, if its non chaotic then as a hero i love it as we are putting the safety of the team first due to caring and looking out for eachother.
Leave a team if it the dynamics dont go anywhere near conceptually suiting you because if you arent enjoying it then thats a good reason to leave.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I would rather faceplant once in every 5-6 missions than complete 20 missions with 0 deaths using boring tactics.
Gimme a good old fasioned slap on the wrist over God Complex anyday.
I'm really going to have to get around to levelling that Fire blaster with 6-slotted Rise-of-the-Pheonix...
Yeah, I find it's much less fun if there's no risk involved and no variety in your attacking methods.
I get bored senseless waiting for another tanker to perma-herd even when *I'M* playing a tanker.
My INV played much more along the lines of "Hit Rage, jump in and Footstomp... then taunt what gets up".
A more mobile team is cracking fun, and it keeps you on your toes...
[u]Disclaimer[u]: I've played a variety of toons, including a defender and a very squishy Human-form PB.
It's not just when I'm on a tank/scrapper that I get bored out of my skull with herding tactics.
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I dont tank with other tanks so might i just say it wasnt me . Although i have duo'd with freedom as shan (whose inuln anyway) against malta with carnie mish as he was lovely enough to show me how to do a safeguard mission.
People can take turns on herding but it is better if the other tank knows whats going on first imo. If a lvl 45 Granite tank brought all he could handle to a even more tauntful lvl 45 firetank then there could be problems. So auras are best not crossing for a start. Its really good if both tanks know what the other one is doing and they cooperate with eachother fairly and allow eachother to tank on their own terms. You make a tank and so ya may aswell tank with it.
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so naturally the barking of orders to team mates becomes almost subconscious.
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Barking orders? I thought it was letting the team know of your intentions. I as my blaster am only interested in what angle i can best use my cones from mainly. I am not looking for any nearby nems with their high perception as I am keen to keep the fight duration down and so i too need to be aware some of the time. An obvious herdpoint to me may not be the one chosen. Alot of people may not understand from not having tanks, taunt control or certain methods and why they are used.
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I'm not disputing the tactic as a whole.. as it's very good and can do wonders for any team. It is, however, boring and repetetive. That's what I mean by barking. As someone has already stated, I would also rather faceplant a few times in the midst of chaos rather than have these boring, deviate- and- die tactics.
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Sorry, you are teaching someone how to play to YOUR rules. your rules seem to consist of the following:
1, Defender Must == Healer. If Defender =\= Healer then said Defender < Empath.
2, Tanks and Scrappers And Blasters > Defenders and Controllers.
3, Everyone on the team must listen to you and your word is final.
All three of the above are... Incorrect.
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Having teamed with this person I believe you are right on the bullseye.
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Having also had this same misfortune recently, I'd just like to agree.
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter