En/En Knockback - why is it so rubbish??
By
Blind_Minotaur,
Posted on: 2006-12-10 09:06 in Everything about PvP
as far as i know anything that gives knockback defence is 100% (or very close to) never been able to knockback harder targets in PvP myself but have had no problem with softer things like doms and masterminds
Just about everyone who seriously PvP's and doesn't have KB protection in their sets takes acrobatics. Against those who don't, it still works.
It could be classed as a problem as it does limit your effectiveness. Cant say its very great as almost every other blast set has something to offer.
I think the reason for not seeing much knockback in pvp is the fact that most people have protection in the form of acrobatics (or there own inbuilt version such as practise brawler, unyielding etc).
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
[ QUOTE ]
It could be classed as a problem as it does limit your effectiveness. Cant say its very great as almost every other blast set has something to offer.
[/ QUOTE ]
See, that's the part that ges me. The other blaster sets have something good about, Elec has the awesome drain, Ice has the holds and slow.....but the only thing Energy has gets stopped completely?
Hardly seems fair to us poor Energy blasters. Surely making it somthing like 75% protection instead of 100% is better?
We built this city on Rock and Roll!
At least En/En has a way (of sorts) to get around the ever-present menace of Acrobatics/Hover - lead with the melee attacks, knock Acro/Hover off with disorients, and then KB away to your heart's content. 
Granted, BFs do stop you from slapping Acro/Hover off quite so easily, but they don't last forever.
Bouncing around the zones, you'll always find the odd player without KB-protection, which makes the 3-slotted KB in Power Thrust all the more amusing. Then again, I don't PvP seriously with that character, as you might have guessed. 
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
I was talking more in the Arena, I avoid the PvP zones cos poor Coin is just [censored] for PvP,
but I do enjoy the odd Arena match with friends.
It's just frustrating that my one advantage, knockback, seems completely resisted in just about every defence!
Would adding more Accuracy enhancements help at all? At the moment I have the relevant powers two slotted, would moving it up to 3 help at all?
And maybe I need to change the order of my attack chain. I think Energy Punch seems to be the best one for dropping toggles. I know I fought a Regen Scrapper last night and dropped his toggles four times! but I wasn't sure what with
I just want a chance.....that's all....just one little chance.....sob
We built this city on Rock and Roll!
[ QUOTE ]
It's just frustrating that my one advantage, knockback, seems completely resisted in just about every defence!
[/ QUOTE ]
It's pretty difficult to get Knockback to work in a team Arena match, tbh.
[ QUOTE ]
Would adding more Accuracy enhancements help at all? At the moment I have the relevant powers two slotted, would moving it up to 3 help at all?
[/ QUOTE ]
You're probably better off slotting Aim and then Build Up with ToHit buffs if you're having difficulty hitting people - 2-slotted Accuracy should hit most targets with regularity.
[ QUOTE ]
And maybe I need to change the order of my attack chain. I think Energy Punch seems to be the best one for dropping toggles. I know I fought a Regen Scrapper last night and dropped his toggles four times! but I wasn't sure what with
[/ QUOTE ]
Statistically, Bonesmasher has the greatest chance to drop toggles (22%), then Energy Punch (5%) - but Energy Punch can be cycled much more quickly. Throw those out as often as you can, and hope you get the mez-toggle.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
Tbh my En/en blaster is so good in PvP I dont miss the knockback that much. I wouldnt mind if energy got another secondary effect added to its primary attacks though.
At worst KB can even be a hindrance.. I use power burst late in my attack chain cause otherwise there might be chance that it KBs the target away from my melee range and I'd need to move closer again wasting precious fractions of a second..
I still use knockback in the way, taht I manage to disorient my squishy targets, and instantly I see them stunned I power thrust them, hopefully gaining enough time to finish them off. Naturally this is pretty pointless against any melee toons except elec brutes who only have grounded (grounded not enough to protect from power thrust KB)
Im not moaning after KB too loudly because in essence its stronger form of control than even a hold. (you can break from hold with break frees but you cant do anything when knockbacked, not even pop insps)
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
Im not moaning after KB too loudly because in essence its stronger form of control than even a hold. (you can break from hold with break frees but you cant do anything when knockbacked, not even pop insps)
[/ QUOTE ]
QFT. I've won countless 1vs1 and 2vs2 because someone forgot to use a BF, you mez him and kb right away, and the 3-4 sec is enough to get the kill.
I've thrown a Granite Tanker across a room. I'm happy 
why is it so rubbish?? Thats just the thing its not rubbish. Its really good and forces people to take 3 powers out of the leaping pool to resist it. But then to be honest most take CJ and SJ anyway
To be honest although most of the powers in the set do kb, Zhaan onyl has power push and power thrust slotted for kb as they dont do damage.
Sure a lot of folks have the resistances but they still hit quite well sometimes and are a good way of getting someone off of you, but as said above, mainly after u hit them with something else to maybe detoggle.
Then again, I am other way round, I prefer the zones rather than arena.
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966
How about an improvement to attacks that have KB? If KB is resisted then the attack deals slightly more damage? This works conceptially but I'm not sure it would in practice. It does seem a little odd that acrobatics is taken by every man and his dog, but the other secondary effects of blasters can't be resisted by a pool power.
Well with fire getting buff to its DoT damage I wouldnt mind getting some buffs to energy primary which is more of a hindrance than useful..
IMO they wont buff it, instead they will nerf accro.
[ QUOTE ]
IMO they wont buff it, instead they will nerf accro.
[/ QUOTE ]
I mean to give it another secondary effect than KB. I don't want its KB increased.
Knockback should stack like holds. If you slap 2 blaster holds it will break acrobatics. Same should apply with knockback. Make it properly stackable and increase the knockback chance a bit. This would make it more usefull in pvp.
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
If knockback stacked... wouldn't that make storm quite powerful?
Yes it would but then again they already nerfed hurricane so that would give something back to storm. Anywats now knockback is completly useless agains anyone with accrobatics or better and in pvp thats pretty much everyone. Even fly or hover offer fairly good protection against it.
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
True. But with Hurricane, Tornado and to a lesser extent the cloud you are going to be fairly hard to resist. If this was then a defender with energy blast... that storm defender would be laughing
Id actually like to have energy do -dam instead. It could still have the dedicated KB attacks power push and thrust.
Thing is, Energy was sold to me in the instructions as being all about Knockback, how useful it was and that's what I loved in for in PvE (once I realised the best way to use it by flying/hovering above, so as not to annoy the hell out of the tanks and scrappers.....thanks Extragonk )
But in PvP, it's completely useless against anyone other than the most casual of PvPers who don't have some sort of protection.
The thing that gets me is that no other secendary effect has 100% defence built in, there's no 100% defence against holds or slow or anything like that, at least that I know of (Im sure the pros out there will now prove me wrong ) yet knockback gets 100%?
Some of the ideas in this thread are great, I love the idea of it stacking, that way I might actually have a chance in some fights
We built this city on Rock and Roll!
And this here, kids, is one of the reasons why the toggledrop nerf should have never happened.
I have had a look through past threads for something about this, but I can't see anything....
So why is my knockback so rubbish in PvP? Seriously, I cn barely remember anyone getting knocked back, or over, or anything?
I know someone mentioned something to me about it being supressed in PvP, byt why? Surely it's the key think for Energy blasters, that's what we have going for us?
I kow there's plenty of defences out there, but are they ALL 100% against Knockback, cos I seem to be able to do stuf all in PvP.
Of course, it could just be that I suck
But it's damn annoying, I know that much, I think I've managed to defeat 1 Troller in the past few months
We built this city on Rock and Roll!