By the same token you should be able to create a toon of any level and AT whenever you want, with a free choice of whatever enhancements you want, for no inf, and get all the veteran rewards on the day you start.
After all, we pay for the game, and would get more enjoyment out of starting a high level!
No, I don't really mean that, and don't agree with your argument either; Kheldians are worth waiting for, and the fact you have to put a bit of effort in to get at them makes them even more of an enjoyable when you finally get there.
We pay money to play the game on Cryptic's terms, and those terms include not getting Kheldians straight off the bat.
You can actually get through the game quickest with a kheldian, you have forms to choose from that go from high damage to high resist and a travel power at low level. These things have to be earnt.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
But some people hate their guts. Damn quants...
You musn't have played a scrapper then...
I'm pretty certain when that lunatic managed to get up to 50, then get a kheldian up to 50 (in beta!) that the scrapper took less time ...
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
I file this under the usual "I want therefore I must have" affliction that runs through society these day.
Kheldians require relearning how to play the game after spending so much time being "Uber" at levels 40-50. There are different levels of what you can handle with a Kheldian that even the most proficient level 50 would have to readjust their playing style to.
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
** Agrees with pet **
Scrappers are far better soloers than Kheldians, but Kheldians are usually better in teams.
If you can sit in a large team from 1 to 50, then Kheldians will be very fast to level. But sadly that's not usually possible and you'll spent a large amount of time soloing.
My scrapper was my first AT and he took over 3 months to hit 50 (1 to get to 35, then I deleted and rerolled him). My PB was the second, had all the influence he could use, and took a little under 3 months to hit 50.
So far my Mastermind has been the fastest of all my alts to hit 50 (took under 6 weeks) and he mainly soloed.
Kheldians are an "Epic" AT because they're inherently more difficult to master than the majority of the other ATs. If you don't play a normal toon to 50 you're unlikely to have developed the skill to play a Kheldian well. If you don't play a Kheldian well, you'll die quicker than a fire/fire blaster surrounded by AVs. 
[ QUOTE ]
You musn't have played a scrapper then...
I'm pretty certain when that lunatic managed to get up to 50, then get a kheldian up to 50 (in beta!) that the scrapper took less time ...
[/ QUOTE ]
I meant in teams not solo, you can revert to a highly resistant dwarf when necessary to avoid debt plus i was told that kheldian arcs give better xp.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Given that quants/voids can 2 shot you, you need the extra xp to offset the debt 
I now mainly duo with an empath on my WS .... clear mind + fortitude = god mod for nova 
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
I never had too many problems with quants/voids. I often play in a double-kheldian-team with a friend and we often say "Dooooooooom!" jokingly on TS when we spot a quant/void. Most of the time the would-be kheldi-killer is down before we are finished.
But to that "suggestion": This is most definitely not a good idea. There are enough kheldian noobs around as it is. I think the argument that you paid for the game and should be able to play everything you want because of that is not valid IMO. I can´t even count all the games I have paid for and where I had to unlock cool extras by beating the game once (or even several times) or doing even more ludicrous things a lot more tiresome than getting a "normal" toon to 50.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
I duo with a Fire/Fire Blaster on mine.....Vengeance and Eclipse is the real Novaform godmode 
If I could only get a fire/fire blaster and an empath to team with my warshade. Then I had only to convince the empath that the blaster doesn´t need healing...
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
[ QUOTE ]
If I could only get a fire/fire blaster and an empath to team with my warshade. Then I had only to convince the empath that the blaster doesn´t need healing...
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed, curse those Fire/Regen Blasters...
<.<
>.>
The bottom line is, games are entertaining because of a challenge/reward structure. A game needs to challenge you, and then reward you for succesfully completing the challenge. In this case, the challenge happens to be getting a char to 50, the reward is a Kheldian.
The real question is, what reward is there for those who complete the challenge of lvling the Kheldian to 50? I8? *coughs* Sorry different subject
just wondering guys, what are the differences betweens WS and PB? would you say one is better or worse?
I agree with toughguy on this.
Not to offend anyone but i do wonder how much people think before they type. The Kheldians are epic AT's for the same reason that veteran rewards are now here.
If you get all the cool stuff right at the start, how long do you think it will be before you loose interest and move onto another game.
Would you buy A different game only to see the end credits and fmv sequence as soon as you boot up?? i very much doubt it. Fact is that kheldians are as close to end content as you are likely to get in this game and as such should be a challenge to get. Otherwise it gets boring.
As for a reward for getting a kheldian to 50, well i dont think theres much they can do. personnaly ive resorted to experimentation with different AT's and jsut trying to play for fun. And nowadays i invest a lot of time in my SG who always need help or advice in some shape or other. It ies essentially a free play game in the sense that you have the freedom to do whatever you like, with no fixed story line, and no "CONGRATULATIONS YOU HAVE COMPLETED THIS GAME NOW BUY THE SEQUEL"
[ QUOTE ]
just wondering guys, what are the differences betweens WS and PB? would you say one is better or worse?
[/ QUOTE ]
***Clicky***
Uuuhm, just want to say that the Clicky above is to be taken with a grain of salt. Many of the numbers presented there are out of date or just plainly wrong and so some of the implications are somewhat flawed.
For more accurate information I would recommend reading some (newer or less number-heavy) guides on these or the US boards about each kind of kheldian. Especially this guide shows a lot of what warshades can do.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
[ QUOTE ]
Uuuhm, just want to say that the Clicky above is to be taken with a grain of salt. Many of the numbers presented there are out of date or just plainly wrong
[/ QUOTE ]
screw the numbers. Any kheldian guide that says "you may have slots left over by level 50" isn't worth the time it takes to read.
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
Oh yes - not intended as a detailed "best Kheld builds" reference. But for the more general "what are the differences betweens WS and PB?" question there should be enough there to provide an answer.
Sorry but thats crazy talk, you may as well say as you pay for the game you should have everything from the start kind of like a cheat on other games to get unlimited cash, all power ups etc.
This is a online game and you are rewarded for taking the time to get to 50 with a new AT and now vet rewards, playing a pb/ws is not easy and if you had them from the start most people would give up on the game saying it was to hard.
As for having to lvl an unwanted character to 50 to get them thats just wrong, if you didnt want a lvl 50 then why bother to play the game at all.
I pay for this game and there are loads of things i would like, however if you had it all from the start what fun would that be?
[ QUOTE ]
Oh yes - not intended as a detailed "best Kheld builds" reference. But for the more general "what are the differences betweens WS and PB?" question there should be enough there to provide an answer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, fair point. I followed the link and got as far as that statement and just lost it
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
Oh, yes, this statement is very odd. I have to ask myself if the author has any practical experience with kheldians at all because of statements like that and since his guide contains very little information (or next to none) about tactical differences and possible playstyles.
The power descriptions are quite bland and provide little more detail than the ones in-game. For examle, he says nothing about synergies like the one creating the Purple Flying Fortress of Doom. I think this part says it all:
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />
*****Which one should I play?*****
This is a matter of playstyle. The best thing would be to use all the information available through the forum and to try them both for a bit and decide which is a better fit for you.
[/ QUOTE ]
This guide seems to be quite uninspired and I think the advice to "try them both for a bit" does hardly help since PBs tend to have a rather steady curve of performance gain in relation to late-blooming warshades. As a seasoned kheldian player he should have known and mentioned that.
To put it short: If I had no experience with kheldians this guide would help me squat to decide which one would fit my preferences best.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
From my own experiences:
[u]Peacebringers:[u]
+ More damaging powers in Human form, less control options.
+ Heals and buffs don't need dead mobs nearby to use.
+ Pets are best used as a PBAoE not an actual pet.
+ All attacks are basically Energy/Smashing damage.
+ Forms are largely seperate entities, no real 'synergy' between forms.
+ Better Tanks in dwarf form (better aggro control, better self heals etc)
+ Can do high damage in Human form, Nova form damage is OK but gets mediocre at high levels.
+ Light form gives mez protection and high resistance, but locks you out of other forms.
+ Easier to use in PvP, much higher burst damage than Warshades especially in Human form.
+ Better at one-on-one encounters, has sufficient AOEs to cope fairly well with large mobs.
-----------------------------------
[u]Warshades:[u]
+ More control powers in Human form, less damage powers.
+ Far better Pets, they actually hang about and help out.
+ Need dead enemies nearby for some buffs/heals/attacks.
+ All attacks are basically Negative Energy/Smashing damage.
+ Eclipse and Mire mean that there is a lot of synergy between all three forms.
+ A Tri-former Warshade will generally be more effective than a Tri-form Peacebringer.
+ Much harder to PvP with Warshades than Peacebringers.
+ No Mez protection in Eclipse, unlike Light form.
+ Eclipse gives Psionic damage resistance.
+ Very good at encounters with a *lot* of mobs, poorer at one-on-one fights.
See, that´s what I would call a nice rundown of differences between kheldians. It is short and has many informations that might escape your notice if you just read a list of power description but will have a noticeable effect on how successful you will fare with the build/playstyle you have in mind.
Almost unnecessary to mention that I would /sign this list any day.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
One thing that bugs me...
We players PAY hard earned cash to enjoy this game, yet you have to get a lvl 50 just to play maybe one of the most enjoyable contents of the game, that is Kheldians.
Paying for this game should automaticly enable everything open for you to enjoy! Not force you to spend time lvl'ing a unwanted character to lvl 50 so the creaters can have a guarantee to your cash.
The Epic AT's should be available from the beggining, we pay for this game and should get full enjoyment out of it.