Ill/Storm... PVP-wise...

I know ill/storm aint the perfect combo for pvp. ive created this toon mainly for coolness/uniqueness of powers reasons, and so far im very well enjoying it (beeing 27).
Anyway, as with all toons, im going to take him to pvp zones. Since im playing on the german server, the population in pvp (as well as overall population) aint that high, mainly its only a couple of people in the zones. most of the time it comes down to 1on1/2on2, so theres no point in having a team-based build.
instead i want to get all possible singletarget power out of ill/storm. so far im planning to get SJ as travelpower (for the mez prot. in acro), fitness (of courssse), speed pool and medicine for aid self. for epics i wanted to take psionic mastery, for the additional psi damage and mez protection.

basically it should look somewhat like this:

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: Sunshade
Level: 50
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Illusion Control
Secondary: Storm Summoning
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Blind==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Hold(3) Hold(5) Rechg(5) Rechg(7)
01) --> Gale==> Empty(1)
02) --> Spectral Wounds==> Acc(2) Acc(7) Dmg(15) Dmg(15) Dmg(19) Rechg(21)
04) --> Snow Storm==> EndRdx(4) EndRdx(9) EndRdx(9)
06) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(6)
08) --> Hurdle==> Jump(8)
10) --> Steamy Mist==> EndRdx(10) EndRdx(11) EndRdx(11) DmgRes(13) DmgRes(13)
12) --> Aid Other==> Heal(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Freezing Rain==> EndRdx(16) EndRdx(17) Rechg(17)
18) --> Phantom Army==> Acc(18) Acc(19) Dmg(21) Dmg(27) Dmg(36) Rechg(36)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
24) --> Hurricane==> EndRdx(24) EndRdx(25) EndRdx(25) TH_DeBuf(45) TH_DeBuf(46)
26) --> Spectral Terror==> Fear(26) Fear(27) Fear(29) Rechg(36) EndRdx(37)
28) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(28) EndRdx(29)
30) --> Aid Self==> Heal(30) Heal(31) Heal(31) IntRdx(31) EndRdx(33) EndRdx(33)
32) --> Phantasm==> Acc(32) Acc(33) Dmg(34) Dmg(34) Dmg(34) EndRdx(37)
35) --> Tornado==> Dmg(35) Dmg(37) Dmg(39) EndRdx(39) EndRdx(39) DefDeBuf(40)
38) --> Lightning Storm==> Acc(38) Dmg(40) Dmg(40) Dmg(43) EndRdx(43) EndRdx(43)
41) --> Indomitable Will==> Rechg(41) Rechg(42) Rechg(42) EndRdx(42)
44) --> Mind Over Body==> EndRdx(44) EndRdx(45) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(46) DmgRes(46)
47) --> Psionic Tornado==> Acc(47) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) EndRdx(50)
49) --> Hasten==> Rechg(49) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Containment==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
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dont care about the order of enhancements, ill slot differently ingame anway.
since this is my first ill/ as well es first /storm, i dont know the powers above 27 yet. they seem to be pretty end heavy, therefore all those endreducers in most powers. im not sure about lightning storm in pvp (especially few player pvp), should i keep it or not take it?
also, i dont have any numbers for hurricane and FR (def/res debuff), but at least for hurricane the planner states -37,5% acc 59,01% tohit debuff (thats 2 different things, right?) for the defender version. so probably i should slot 3 tohit debuffs, since its going to be my main protection from melee type enemies, what do you think?

tia for all comments.

The build looks pretty good but I do think (even if you're /storm) you're somewhat too worried about endurance.

Snow storm: You should maybe drop the 3rd end red and use a slow instead? or even a recharge....depending on playstyle.

Combat Jumping and Hurdle: If you have some slots move them here. 2-3 slotted and 3 slotted hudle makes a big difference in your movement.

Steamy Mist: Go 2 end reds, 3 dmg res in this one

Freezing Rain: Slot with more recharges. 2-3 rech, 1-2 end red.

Phantom Army: Doesn't really need the accuracies. Would suggest 3 rech, 3 dmg

Health: Go with swift instead. Health helps with lessened downtime in PvE but it won't save a squishy in PvP.

Hurricane: Your best means of defense. One of the best accuracy debuffs in the game. Slot 2 end reds, 3 tohit debuff.

Spectral Terror: The base fear is pretty good so wouldn't slot too heavily on that. It's perma aswell so doesn't need recharges. Slot 1 acc, 1-2 fear, 0-1 range, 0-1 end red.

Aid Self: Would probably get some recharges in there. Slot either 3 heal, 2 int rdx, 1 rech or 3 heal, 1 int rdx, 2 rech.

Phantasm: Doesnt need a end red since hes fire and forget.

Tornado, really really good in PvP (and PvE for that matter). Slot 3 dmg, 1-2 rech, 1-2 end reds. It doesn't need the def debuff unless you want to go through PFF which can be done with 1 tornado and 1 freezing rain

Lightning Storm: Used to be really good in PvP until they introduced the toggledrop nerf which made this power virtually useless so I would say skip it. For PvE i would slot this 3 dmg, 1-2 rech, 1-2 end reds.

Consider going for the primal epic since a powerboosted aid self freezing rain are fantastic and you get a much better single blast than mental blast.

Try and get super speed in your build for max mobility

[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />
I know ill/storm aint the perfect combo for pvp.

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Well I think its actually one of the really good Combinations PvP wise.

I would maybe think about another invis Power from the Illusion set. Stacked together they should be awsome. But thats just a though, I am not playing a Ill/Storm myself, but that was the first thought when seeing Ill/Storm on paper.

As far as I know the Mez protection of Acrobatics is more than small compared to MoB. Though the knockback resistence should be sweet, but probably the only reason to take Acro (?MoB was something like -7 or even more and Acro -1?)

Basically I have to agree with Archy, especially concerning his notions about Acrobatics and EndRdx.
The only real use of Jumping Pool/Acrobatics could be if you want to mainly PvP in zones other than RV, otherwise Indomitable Will will take care of any mezzing (and with Hover knockback is a non-issue). So, it really depends on where you want to PvP.
But I would really suggest you cut down on those EndRdx. Take, for example, Steamy Mist: The first EndRdx saves 0.12 end/sec. That´s ok. The next two save 0.11 end/sec combined. IMO that´s a waste of two slots and one of them could have gone into damage resistance. (The other one would have been a second acc for Psionic Tornado. This power is very nice... and very expensive, so you really want it to hit as much as possible.)
And talking about late powers: I found my controller to be a lot more enjoyable (and powerful) with Hasten. So, you might want to consider swapping some powers to get it (much) earlier.

Well the thing is, with all those toggles, my recovery is very low, and with all powers having comparatively high endurance costs, ill run out of end pretty soon. plus it gets even worse with hasten and quicker/more attacks. primal epics seem to cost even more endurance, and recovery gets even lower. most of the attacks cost 12+ endurance, and while running snow storm/SM/shield/hurricane i wont be able to fight very long i think.
i would like to keep psi mastery for the (lesser resisted) psi damage ad mez protection. switching from leaping to fly might sound like a good idea though.

heres the new build, as some kind of compromise between your comments and my newbie-ish opinions:


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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: Sunshade
Level: 50
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Illusion Control
Secondary: Storm Summoning
---------------------------------------------
01) --&gt; Blind==&gt; Acc(1) Acc(3) Hold(3) Hold(5) Rechg(5) Rechg(7)
01) --&gt; Gale==&gt; Empty(1)
02) --&gt; Spectral Wounds==&gt; Acc(2) Acc(7) Dmg(15) Dmg(15) Dmg(19) Rechg(21)
04) --&gt; Snow Storm==&gt; EndRdx(4) EndRdx(9) EndRdx(43)
06) --&gt; Hover==&gt; Fly(6) Fly(9) Fly(46)
08) --&gt; Swift==&gt; Run(8)
10) --&gt; Steamy Mist==&gt; EndRdx(10) EndRdx(11) DmgRes(11) DmgRes(13) DmgRes(13)
12) --&gt; Aid Other==&gt; Heal(12)
14) --&gt; Fly==&gt; Fly(14) Fly(40) Fly(43)
16) --&gt; Freezing Rain==&gt; Rechg(16) Rechg(17) Rechg(17) EndRdx(43) EndRdx(50)
18) --&gt; Phantom Army==&gt; Acc(18) Dmg(19) Dmg(21) Dmg(27) Rechg(36) Rechg(36)
20) --&gt; Health==&gt; Heal(20)
22) --&gt; Stamina==&gt; EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
24) --&gt; Hurricane==&gt; EndRdx(24) EndRdx(25) TH_DeBuf(25) TH_DeBuf(37) TH_DeBuf(42)
26) --&gt; Spectral Terror==&gt; Fear(26) Acc(27) Rechg(29) EndRdx(36) EndRdx(46)
28) --&gt; Hasten==&gt; Rechg(28) Rechg(29) Rechg(40)
30) --&gt; Aid Self==&gt; Heal(30) Heal(31) Heal(31) IntRdx(31) EndRdx(33) EndRdx(33)
32) --&gt; Phantasm==&gt; Acc(32) Acc(33) Dmg(34) Dmg(34) Dmg(34)
35) --&gt; Tornado==&gt; Dmg(35) Dmg(37) Dmg(37) EndRdx(39) Range(39) Range(39)
38) --&gt; Super Speed==&gt; EndRdx(38) EndRdx(40)
41) --&gt; Indomitable Will==&gt; Rechg(41) Rechg(42) Rechg(42)
44) --&gt; Mind Over Body==&gt; EndRdx(44) EndRdx(45) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(46)
47) --&gt; Psionic Tornado==&gt; Acc(47) Acc(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(50) EndRdx(50)
49) --&gt; Mental Blast==&gt; Empty(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --&gt; Sprint==&gt; Empty(1)
01) --&gt; Brawl==&gt; Empty(1)
01) --&gt; Containment==&gt; Empty(1)
02) --&gt; Rest==&gt; Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------


my planner wont let me slot tornado for acc, so if this should be possible, think of the 2 range enh. to be acc enhancers instead.

Tornado can use -def &amp; disorientate duration enhances too. The -def would be nice for PvP for dealing with pesky SRs.

On the End thing, my (admittedly PvE) build finds Hibernate from Ice Mastery great for getting the blue back in-fight. Because you've so many droppable pets you can dump them, Hib for 10 seconds to recover End and they'll still be blasting, fearing and debuffing away.

[ QUOTE ]
primal epics seem to cost even more endurance, and recovery gets even lower.

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??? Primal gives you (at 41) Conserve Power which will help a lot with end recovery if that's a concern. The only power which will need 1-2 EndRdx there is the shield, and that's the same case for all Epic shields.

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would like to keep psi mastery for the (lesser resisted) psi damage

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You already have Spectral Wounds for that, so it's often nice to mix the damage types (for example if you're facing someone who resists psi), but IW is definitely a great power.

IMO fly isn't very good in PvP and especially when running hurricane you need to move around a lot where fly just wont cut it.

I would definately suggest the Primal epic.
Your endurance will for the most part be fine in PvP unless you duel a lot where a thing like conserve power comes in handy.
Power boost is excellent for aid self and your hold.
Power Blast is a much better single target attack than mental blast...you will be gnaving your arm off while the animation goes off and Psionic Tornado is, well, an AoE which will use more end, have a longer recharge, do less dmg (unless theres a lot of people grouped up, which more or less never happens in PvP)

My build would look something like this:

---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Illusion Control
Secondary: Storm Summoning
---------------------------------------------
01) --&gt; Blind==&gt; Acc(1) Acc(15) Rechg(33) Rechg(34) Hold(34) Hold(34)
01) --&gt; Gale==&gt; Acc(1)
02) --&gt; Spectral Wounds==&gt; Acc(2) Acc(3) Dmg(3) Dmg(7) Dmg(9) Rechg(9)
04) --&gt; Snow Storm==&gt; EndRdx(4) EndRdx(5) Rechg(5) Slow(7)
06) --&gt; Hurdle==&gt; Jump(6) Jump(37) Jump(40)
08) --&gt; Combat Jumping==&gt; Jump(8) Jump(43) Jump(48)
10) --&gt; Steamy Mist==&gt; EndRdx(10) EndRdx(11) DmgRes(11) DmgRes(13) DmgRes(13)
12) --&gt; Swift==&gt; Run(12)
14) --&gt; Super Jump==&gt; Jump(14) EndRdx(15)
16) --&gt; Freezing Rain==&gt; Rechg(16) Rechg(17) Rechg(17) EndRdx(33) EndRdx(46) DefDeBuf(46)
18) --&gt; Phantom Army==&gt; Rechg(18) Rechg(19) Rechg(19) Dmg(31) Dmg(31) Dmg(33)
20) --&gt; Stamina==&gt; EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --&gt; Hurricane==&gt; EndRdx(22) EndRdx(23) TH_DeBuf(23) TH_DeBuf(25) TH_DeBuf(29)
24) --&gt; Acrobatics==&gt; EndRdx(24) EndRdx(25)
26) --&gt; Hasten==&gt; Rechg(26) Rechg(27) Rechg(27)
28) --&gt; Spectral Terror==&gt; Acc(28) Fear(29) Range(50)
30) --&gt; Super Speed==&gt; Run(30) EndRdx(31)
32) --&gt; Aid Other==&gt; Rechg(32)
35) --&gt; Tornado==&gt; Dmg(35) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Rechg(36) Rechg(37) EndRdx(37)
38) --&gt; Aid Self==&gt; Heal(38) Heal(39) Heal(39) Rechg(39) IntRdx(40) IntRdx(40)
41) --&gt; Power Blast==&gt; Acc(41) Acc(42) Dmg(42) Dmg(42) Dmg(43) Rechg(43)
44) --&gt; Temp Invulnerability==&gt; EndRdx(44) EndRdx(45) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(46)
47) --&gt; Power Boost==&gt; Rechg(47) Rechg(48) Rechg(48)
49) --&gt; Conserve Power==&gt; Rechg(49) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
---------------------------------------------
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Note this a 50s PvP build. This is NOT a build for levelling (even though it would do fine in PvE aswell)

You really don't like pets in PvP apart from imps, do you archie? :P.
Basically I agree on taking the primal epics. Power boost will always make it better in PvP unless you are fighting a MoG'd scrapper.. and even then.. besides conserve power is a must imo for storm trollers, although I'd always pick mental blast instead of the primal one ^^

[ QUOTE ]
You really don't like pets in PvP apart from imps, do you archie? :P.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's cause he's a n00b . Seriously, especially for duels or 2v2 (see OP), you should really take the pet (zones or large teams, that's another story).

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although I'd always pick mental blast instead of the primal one ^^

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You really don't like pets in PvP apart from imps, do you archie? :P.


[/ QUOTE ]

hehe....well....pets are most of the time useless in team PvP because of all the movement they'll just try and keep up with you which they can't (unless its a small map of course).

Lets have a look at them then

1: Animate Stone, slow as hell and only good dmg in melee which he will more or less never be if you're up against a PvPer who just knows half of what hes doing. Can stun if really lucky

2: Fire Imps, really good in duels/small teams because of the damage. Don't use if fighting a confuser (plant dom, mind dom/troller and to a lesser extent an ill troller). Larger teams, look above.

3: Singularity, best pet in PvP. If you're lucky enough to have it keep up with you it can help you stack a massive number of holds and immobs on targets. Again this one only really shines in duels/small teams.

4: Jack Frost, basically the same as Animated Stone other than he has a hold he will use once in a while and his attacks will slow your targets....other than that look above.

5: Phantasm, probably the least useful of all controller pets in PvP. The damage is pitiful and has no secondary effects other than knockback which all PvPers ought to protected against.

6: Mass Confusion, is not really a pet but hey....put it on here anyway. Fantastic against MMs and the occasional fire troller/dom...other than that...not much use.

there you go

...and Okt...we all know that the n00bs shall inherit the earth so see you at the restaurant at the end of the universe

[ QUOTE ]
...and Okt...we all know that the n00bs shall inherit the earth so see you at the restaurant at the end of the universe

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was the trollers . Either way, I'm soooo there! First round is on me

Just read some other guides, and there seems to be different opinions of tornado, some say it sucks, others say its a good power... i noticed on the planner you cant slot for accuracy, is that correct? is it some form of autohit? also, whats its damage like? the planner numbers dont seem very.. correct.
and how is it compared to psychic tornado? (dmg, acc, duration etc)

and another question regarding thunder clap. is this the same as hand clap (SS)? thus also throwing back enemies in pve? or is it disorient only w/o knockback?

Tornado is kinda a love/hate power as you say yourself...I personally love it.

The damage is decent but not fantastic in any way.

It's either autohit or has a very high baseaccuracy since it never misses

Duration is 30 seconds. In this period of time it will continously damage, knock back and debuff defense of affected targets. Herobuilder says it can do up to 30 tics of damage. Never actually tested this because I'm too lazy

Note: I probably wouldn't consider Tornado for builds without immobs that negate knockback ie illusion unless you had a spare powerslot and would use it for AVs (fantastic def debuff.)

Thunderclap is the same as Hand Clap just without the knockback and with a flashier animation

Personally not a big fan of thunder clap as it only stuns minions and have a loooong animation (think its the same as Flash....cant remember?)

[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />

Note: I probably wouldn't consider Tornado for builds without immobs that negate knockback ie illusion unless you had a spare powerslot and would use it for AVs (fantastic def debuff.)

[/ QUOTE ]

its for pvp, im fine with any knockback/chaos

meh....forgot this was about PvP

Always go for Tornado if it's for PvP.

slot it 3 dmg, 1-2 rech, 1-2 end reds

Although my current build is kind of gimped (a friend of mine took o2boost at 6 or so ) im really enjoying it in pvp already. i took down a claws/SR scrapper (50) in warburg the other night(me beeing 33), he didnt stand a chance

anyway, this is my first controller, so i wondered whether i should be able to toggle drop brute/stalker class players with only 1 hold. the planner states 3,6s recharge (hasten, 1 rech) and 26s duration. i should be able to stack 3-4 holds easily, what do you think? i dont know the mag of controller holds / brute/stalker shields, whould this be enough to get ppl into hold?

[ QUOTE ]
this is my first controller, so i wondered whether i should be able to toggle drop brute/stalker class players with only 1 hold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, you need to stack several (3 for stalkers, 4 for brutes)

[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />
this is my first controller, so i wondered whether i should be able to toggle drop brute/stalker class players with only 1 hold.

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Nope, you need to stack several (3 for stalkers, 4 for brutes)

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.. 1 hold power, not 1 hold. Surely i need to stack, didnt know how many holds to stack

Oh, hehe

Ive reached 40 now, and went straight to RV looking for some pvp action. from what i can say now:

- endurance is a BIG issue in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3ish fights
- SM, hurricane, acro, snow storm, thats a lot of endurance cost. after snow storming and getting out pets i end up with about 10 end left most of the time, not beeing able to do much more than spamming blind (which btw works great, even w/o hasten i hold brutes easily)
- even with few players, theres lots of stuns and disorients (bots, energy brutes/stalks and such), and dropping all toggles means certain death for me.
- tornado is just awesome when dropped on a mastermind - all pets go flying. current slotting is 2end 2 defdebuff 1 rchg since the damage seems rather low, not worth enhancing
- i never bothered slotting ST, so the current slotting is 1acc, and it seems to do just fine, ill probably keep that, unless i get some spare slots later on
- hurricane seems good, although people keep hitting (in melee). i had a stalker AS me, a brute KB-me, and some energy brutes stun me. i know theres always a small percentage to hit. but when i was last fighting a stormie (defender) with my ss/ brute, i *never ever* hit. current slotting is 3end 3tohit debuff

since i need to respec anyway ill get primal epics, and see if i can get along with acro as main mez protection, since endurance is the bigger problem atm.

Would ice epic be good for a pvp ill/storm?

I was thinking that hibernate would be useful for end problems as you can use it more often then conserve power and the shield is def so would work well with the acc debuff from hurricane. Also the blast is fast and has good damage.

So would it work well in pvp or is primal the only way to go to do really well in pvp?

[ QUOTE ]
You really don't like pets in PvP apart from imps, do you archie? :P.
Basically I agree on taking the primal epics. Power boost will always make it better in PvP unless you are fighting a MoG'd scrapper.. and even then.. besides conserve power is a must imo for storm trollers, although I'd always pick mental blast instead of the primal one ^^

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are figting a MoG'ed scrapper with an illusion troller, its GG if you can stop laughing.

Meh forgot it was about Illu :P true true.. all the scrappers should fight MoG'd my Ill/Rad

[ QUOTE ]
If you are figting a MoG'ed scrapper with an illusion troller, its GG if you can stop laughing.

[/ QUOTE ]

So very, very true

Cheers,

White