With a +4 AV you can actually keep them permanently interested with enough duration and stacking. I know certain AVs seem to have ways of resisting (Nemesis, Mako can placate) or have higher resistance to taunt. With a +4 you may have to wait for your second taunt to take effect on light slotting (my scrappers been in there taunting the RV AVs) to gain attention or even 3rd taunt but the more you use it the better it seems to get.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I know certain AVs seem to have ways of resisting or have higher resistance to taunt.
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Then there is Diabolique, who always seems to go phase-shifted the very moment you to hit Taunt...
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I know certain AVs seem to have ways of resisting or have higher resistance to taunt.
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Then there is Diabolique, who always seems to go phase-shifted the very moment you to hit Taunt...
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That or she buggers off and then you need taunt durations so that she is sure to remember you. She and of the top of my head Siege are the 2 AVs i like to have -fly powers for sure. With the mission Defeat all villains in cavern peregrine island with infernal and diabolique in, it pays to turn right (as you come in from door) do the rest of the map and then get to diabolique so she wont keep leading you to more and more mobs cos there arent any.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
TBH, I think a Tank should take Taunt as soon as they can handle the aggro. Gauntlet doesn't get everything.
01) --> Temp Invulnerability==> Empty(1)
01) --> Bash==> Empty(1)
02) --> Dull Pain==> Empty(2)
04) --> Pulverize==> Empty(4)
06) --> Hurdle==> Empty(6)
08) --> Unyielding==> Empty(8)
10) --> Taunt==> Empty(10)
12) --> Hover==> Empty(12)
14) --> Fly==> Empty(14)
16) --> Health==> Empty(16)
18) --> Invincibility==> Empty(18)
20) --> Stamina==> Empty(20)
22) --> Jawbreaker==> Empty(22)
24) --> Resist Energies==> Empty(24)
This would be the build I would choose for 2 reasons:
1) S/L Resists are high for an Inv tank where as NRG/N NRG resists are not so resist energies works better as a power choice IMO.
2) I prefer getting stamina at 20 just to ensure you can run toggles and fight without worrying about your end bar. If you worry about your end bar you are less likely to be worrying about peoples health bars.
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If yoyu consider Gauntlet as "Punchvoke"... i.e I hit things to make them hit me, its kinda sucky but helps.
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I think of it as this.
It is good because unlike the Taunt Auras, you control the timing of it.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
Depends, my tanks have got by without til their 20s, always seems something else more pressing to get!
But definately get it. I may try it sooner on a tank at some point but to be fair, the early tanks don't absorb the damage with the same amount of confidence as a tank that has its defences built up the late teens early 20s so it 6 to 1, half a dozen to the other.
Consider your play style for this query. 
BTW, nout wrong with punchvoke/gauntlet if you're a decent tanker.
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Nowt wrong with punchvoke indeed. But I can happily swallow 100% aggro with Chilling Embrace and taunt and never need punchvoke.
I agree most tanks can (but probably shouldnt) get away with taunt till earl/mid 20s.
However, for Invun tanks, who dont get the aura till level 18, there is no way to delay it. YOu simply have to take it at level 10, or you will face 8 long levels of being a under-damaging scrapper and doing very badly in teams. You probably wont make the top of anyones invite list.
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Nowt wrong with punchvoke indeed. But I can happily swallow 100% aggro with Chilling Embrace and taunt and never need punchvoke.
[/ QUOTE ]Or you can get away with chilling embrace and punchvoke and never need taunt 
Like most of the others have said "take it early"
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Nowt wrong with punchvoke indeed. But I can happily swallow 100% aggro with Chilling Embrace and taunt and never need punchvoke.
[/ QUOTE ]Or you can get away with chilling embrace and punchvoke and never need taunt
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Or you could use Chilling Embrace, punchvoke and taunt and be a better aggro controller. 
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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Nowt wrong with punchvoke indeed. But I can happily swallow 100% aggro with Chilling Embrace and taunt and never need punchvoke.
[/ QUOTE ]Or you can get away with chilling embrace and punchvoke and never be able to grab aggro at range or kite AV's.
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Edited for Accuracy.
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Nowt wrong with punchvoke indeed. But I can happily swallow 100% aggro with Chilling Embrace and taunt and never need punchvoke.
[/ QUOTE ]Or you can get away with chilling embrace and punchvoke and never be able to grab aggro at range or kite AV's.
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Edited for Accuracy.
[/ QUOTE ]Even if I will take taunt, you will NOT see me kiting AV's, it's just silly. Also, fire epic quite easily allows taking aggro at range.
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Nowt wrong with punchvoke indeed. But I can happily swallow 100% aggro with Chilling Embrace and taunt and never need punchvoke.
[/ QUOTE ]Or you can get away with chilling embrace and punchvoke and never be able to grab aggro at range or kite AV's.
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Edited for Accuracy.
[/ QUOTE ]Even if I will take taunt, you will NOT see me kiting AV's, it's just silly. Also, fire epic quite easily allows taking aggro at range.
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... from lvl 41 on. And the Fire Epic won't be as effective or cost as little End as Taunt.
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If yoyu consider Gauntlet as "Punchvoke"... i.e I hit things to make them hit me, its kinda sucky but helps.
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I think of it as this.
It is good because unlike the Taunt Auras, you control the timing of it.
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Yeah as an invuln secondary aoe powers helps to establish a taunt duration before an invincible taunt pulse if needed so that you can immediately establish a these are taunted situation then use taunt on the ones your aoe didnt effect on a run in.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Nowt wrong with punchvoke indeed. But I can happily swallow 100% aggro with Chilling Embrace and taunt and never need punchvoke.
[/ QUOTE ]Or you can get away with chilling embrace and punchvoke and never be able to grab aggro at range or kite AV's.
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Edited for Accuracy.
[/ QUOTE ]Even if I will take taunt, you will NOT see me kiting AV's, it's just silly. Also, fire epic quite easily allows taking aggro at range.
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Fire epic is not as good as taunt. Fire Blast and Char do not have area effects, they only taunts the target and Fireball has a very long recharge ( 30 seconds or so ). Neither are capable of perma-taunting ranged opponents in quite the same way as Taunt. Also you can only get Fireball at level 47.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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Nowt wrong with punchvoke indeed. But I can happily swallow 100% aggro with Chilling Embrace and taunt and never need punchvoke.
[/ QUOTE ]Or you can get away with chilling embrace and punchvoke and never be able to grab aggro at range or kite AV's.
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Edited for Accuracy.
[/ QUOTE ]Even if I will take taunt, you will NOT see me kiting AV's, it's just silly. Also, fire epic quite easily allows taking aggro at range.
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Your not prepared to offer a chance to make all situations a situation so that only your tanker is on the line.
Depending on type, level of AV and defence sets in team (cos even level or +1-2 lvl is often with certain sets in team is just a "what ya need a tank for situation?) I'd team with you with caution (not that i would ever) AND i think some of the other experienced tankers would agree too. Alot of people in knowing your tank doesnt taunt would play a little more defensively whilst some want debt badges anyway or couldnt care less.
Fast action time secondaries with good secondary effects ie energy is probably the type of secondary that can get away without taunt in general unless you need to taunt a flier and cant get to it and have no outside powerpool picks that can help.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
to pose a similar, but slightly different question to the original...
i'm planning to be rolling an ice/ice tank to duo with an ice/ice blaster in the near future. obviously i plan on grabbing chilling embrace, but do people think that taunt would be particularly valuable in such a team? throwing it into the mix at the earliest oppourtunity has me expecting to get my second damage dealing power by level 18. i know that i'm not there to throw the hurt around, but that seems like i won't be carrying my weight much.
obviously a spread-out team tackling a few spawns simultaneously after everything goes to hell needs a tank who can taunt to try and pull everything into order, but if we're likely standing shoulder to shoulder as he blapps and i tank can i be confident that punchvoke and CE will see us through and keep the aggro on me?
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to pose a similar, but slightly different question to the original...
i'm planning to be rolling an ice/ice tank to duo with an ice/ice blaster in the near future. obviously i plan on grabbing chilling embrace, but do people think that taunt would be particularly valuable in such a team? throwing it into the mix at the earliest oppourtunity has me expecting to get my second damage dealing power by level 18. i know that i'm not there to throw the hurt around, but that seems like i won't be carrying my weight much.
obviously a spread-out team tackling a few spawns simultaneously after everything goes to hell needs a tank who can taunt to try and pull everything into order, but if we're likely standing shoulder to shoulder as he blapps and i tank can i be confident that punchvoke and CE will see us through and keep the aggro on me?
[/ QUOTE ]As an ice tank, you wont need taunt before you start facing AV's.
TAKE. TAUNT. NOW!
Joking aside, unless you really can't manage the aggro, taunt should be taken as early as possible if you want to be a team tank.
Taunting AoE's like chilling embrace and blazing aura along with the punchvoke/gauntlet will enable you to hold aggro most of the time but when you have scattering mobs making a beeline for the ranged squishies you are left with three choices
- Hope the squishy can take the aggro
- Chase the aggro down, risking your current aggro scattering if you move out of range as the mobs are attacked
- Taunt the mob to bring him to you while standing safely in the middle of your already gathered aggro.
Spot the preferred option
People will argue they can herd and tank without taunt and I agree an experienced player can do this without taunt but give him the same build with taunt and he'll do it even better so the earlier you get it, the better you're fulfilling your team role.
Unless you're a fire tank, no one expects you to be doing the killing(even fire tanks aren't expected to do it since the burn change).
So, impressing them with how quickly you can kill something or how you have aid other to help heal them is pointless if you can't pull those odd few mobs off the blaster who's nowhere the bulk of the enemy
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Taunting AoE's like chilling embrace and blazing aura along with the punchvoke/gauntlet will enable you to hold aggro most of the time but when you have scattering mobs making a beeline for the ranged squishies you are left with three choices
- Hope the squishy can take the aggro
- Chase the aggro down, risking your current aggro scattering if you move out of range as the mobs are attacked
- Taunt the mob to bring him to you while standing safely in the middle of your already gathered aggro.
[/ QUOTE ]Or use ranged temporary/APP power 
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to pose a similar, but slightly different question to the original...
i'm planning to be rolling an ice/ice tank to duo with an ice/ice blaster in the near future. obviously i plan on grabbing chilling embrace, but do people think that taunt would be particularly valuable in such a team? throwing it into the mix at the earliest oppourtunity has me expecting to get my second damage dealing power by level 18. i know that i'm not there to throw the hurt around, but that seems like i won't be carrying my weight much.
obviously a spread-out team tackling a few spawns simultaneously after everything goes to hell needs a tank who can taunt to try and pull everything into order, but if we're likely standing shoulder to shoulder as he blapps and i tank can i be confident that punchvoke and CE will see us through and keep the aggro on me?
[/ QUOTE ]As an ice tank, you wont need taunt before you start facing AV's.
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So, depending on when you want to start TF'ing, you'll get AV's from level 10 onwards (Cavern of Transcedence, Synapse (but not Positron) etc.).
Just get Taunt. Only then will I stop bugging you.
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Taunting AoE's like chilling embrace and blazing aura along with the punchvoke/gauntlet will enable you to hold aggro most of the time but when you have scattering mobs making a beeline for the ranged squishies you are left with three choices
- Hope the squishy can take the aggro
- Chase the aggro down, risking your current aggro scattering if you move out of range as the mobs are attacked
- Taunt the mob to bring him to you while standing safely in the middle of your already gathered aggro.
[/ QUOTE ]Or use ranged temporary/APP power
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Temporary powers are temporary, Epic powers are level 41+. And both aren't as good at aggro as Taunt.
We've had this discussion earlier in this thread.
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to pose a similar, but slightly different question to the original...
i'm planning to be rolling an ice/ice tank to duo with an ice/ice blaster in the near future. obviously i plan on grabbing chilling embrace, but do people think that taunt would be particularly valuable in such a team? throwing it into the mix at the earliest oppourtunity has me expecting to get my second damage dealing power by level 18. i know that i'm not there to throw the hurt around, but that seems like i won't be carrying my weight much.
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I normally get the level 4 attack power at level 4 and taunt at level 10 for a tank. This means you have to leave glacial armour or stamina until level 22. Most tanks only start being able to dish out the damage in the 30s. That's why you are teaming with a blaster.
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obviously a spread-out team tackling a few spawns simultaneously after everything goes to hell needs a tank who can taunt to try and pull everything into order, but if we're likely standing shoulder to shoulder as he blapps and i tank can i be confident that punchvoke and CE will see us through and keep the aggro on me?
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If it is next to you yes. Chilling Embrace is very good at that. So long as the blaster know to run to you when in trouble you should both be fine. However taunting also speeds up corner pulling ( corner pulling with just Chilling embrace takes a while ), which for the duo you suggest would be a good idea as it would allow the blaster to use Frost Breath more effectively.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
If you conisder Gauntlet as part of the "taunt aura" thing, its basically invaluable.
If yoyu consider Gauntlet as "Punchvoke"... i.e I hit things to make them hit me, its kinda sucky but helps.
I know some tanks think they can get away with taunt aura and punchvoke. Personally I disgaree but hey ho.