Stalkers in i7 PVP

stalkers in i7 have been given the short straw and one i'm not to happy about.
let me explain.

In i7 stalkers will be forced to team to try and get grant invis to max out stealth this is mainly due to the heroes having so many +per power ie: SR focued senses (300 +per), focused accuracy (300 +per) and tactics (+234) this gives +834 perception beating the standard hide+stealth combo of -890 so the only way a stalker is to get even close to a scrapper with the above he needs grant invis.

my main gripe is stalkers are being forced to team in the vain hope someone in the team has grant invis which isn't that common and to be honest nobodys going to keep buffing every 2 minutes.
The heroes to get high +per DO NOT have to team, all they have to do is take those per powers and they can solo in the PVP zones ... not really fair is it ?.

Who is the real solo AT here .. scrappers or stalkers ?.

Saying all this i havn't really mentioned clear mind which would just be another nail in the coffin of stalkers .. CM is another +390.

what chance do stalkers have in Recluses Victory .. zero to none i say not unless you add someone with grant invis to your buddy list and hope hes on at the same time you want to PVP and then have him follow you around the zone.

Focused Accuracy needs the +per elliment removing thus forcing heroes to team aswell for CM instead of it being a 1 sided affair.

You should'nt just go and AS someone at the spot, usually hitting them while they're distracted might work better than going up in front of them like that.

Just like people with grant invis will be rare (according to you), the build you describe above will be rare too. First of all, only SR scrappers can achieve the above +per solo. And even then, only the SR scrappers that actually want to invest in 3 +per powers for this end. Ofcourse, there will certainly be those that do this (my SR scrapper will, probably), but in the end, most heroes won't have this kind of perception solo.
As for the CM +per, this is in a team, so it shouldn't be compared with just your own stealth bonus, your team can give you more stealth to counter it.

See, people think Stalkers can only play hit and runs.
Sure, we have low hit points, and we pure pwn if we do manage a One/Two shot kill, but we can still stand there and have a fair scrap. Some Stalkers are rock hard in a full on fight.

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Just like people with grant invis will be rare (according to you), the build you describe above will be rare too. First of all, only SR scrappers can achieve the above +per solo. And even then, only the SR scrappers that actually want to invest in 3 +per powers for this end. Ofcourse, there will certainly be those that do this (my SR scrapper will, probably), but in the end, most heroes won't have this kind of perception solo.
As for the CM +per, this is in a team, so it shouldn't be compared with just your own stealth bonus, your team can give you more stealth to counter it.

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ok heres the +per list for heroes

Targeting Drone
Focused Senses
Cloak of Darkness
Minerals
Glacial Armor
Focused Accuracy
Shadow Cloak
Danger Sense: +300

i see 2 scrapper sets and 2 tanker sets that have a damn good chance of spotting stalkers from a VERY large distance not to mention blasters and pretty much all scrappers and tankers take FA.
Also if you had read my post you'll see that for a stalker to be able to beat those figures they MUST team with someone with grant invis, there no way a stalker with hide+stealth can improve his stealth alone unlike heroes who can do it solo.

As far stalkers being able to scrap yes they can to a certain extent but they do have low HP and low defence and do not comapre to scrappers HP but the stalker AT is based around hide but that element has been removed in i7.

No, stalkers haven't low defense. Stalkers have exactly the same defense as scrappers/brutes (better in a few cases - SR stalkers > SR scrappers, with Hide).

Low hp is right, but that's it. Stalkers aren't squishies. Unless you're talking pre-SO for non-EM stalkers, the stalker AT isn't based on Hide, on AS, on Placate or w/e.

On Test right now, Blasters lose their toggledrops. AS isn't interrupted by non-dmg debuffs anymore. If anything, (good) EM stalkers will dominate solo and casual pvp, and the other (good) stalkers will be quite strong, too.

Keep in mind EM for stalkers outdamages BS for scrappers, in a scrap. That's including scrappers crits, ignoring Hide and AS, and forgetting lethal is often resisted. ET and TF are that strong, even on a 0.9 base BI (stalkers) against 1.15 base BI (scrappers).

(Everyone isn't EM ; however, some pvpers tend to gravitate around overpowered sets, and there's many, many EM stalkers.)

This is almost as funny as listening to blasters, except this is a little more bizarre. For one thing - low defence? Stalkers' defences are second only to Brutes for villains! I've heard Stalkers say "we have low/no defences", it's just absurd - Stalkers have a whole powerset dedicated to passive defences! you don't even have to think about using them! Toggles on...zzZZzzzz.... oh, and self heals, and let's see an AoE confuse, an invisibility attack, no less than THREE Elude equivalents...hmm yep no defences there.

Issue 7 has introduced nothing new, all these issues were here before. As far as Grant Invis goes...hmm...who takes the Concealment Pool?...give me a moment...ahhh..is it Stalkers? Do you think maybe, possibly, Stalkers might take Grant Invis as well as Stealth?

www.thatslyfe.com
Check out elernet's PvP videos - specifically his "Advance, Visible Stalkers" if you think Stalkers don't have a chance.

Being seen makes it harder to kill definatly, but I dont think its a bad thing, quite frankly being able to sit behind someone and kill them before they realise [censored] is going on I personally find boring and no challenge what so ever.

RV was alway going to be tougher, especially in the short term, as yet villains have not had a chace to try yet alone discover the finer points of their patron powers, and reaching 50 will not instantly allow us to compete against lvl 50 heroes, who's powers we havent even fought against unless you've taken part in a base raid or areana matches where heroes have full access to thier powers.

Give it time learn the pros and cons of your builds, and eventually i'm sure you wont be as weak as you think you will be, the hard part is learning to adapt which quite frankly a lot of stalkers are not interested in....only the I WIN button is good enough for some it seems.

Stalker's AS is also recieving a buff, in that various powers like Arctic Air and Hot Feet, which don't dmg, only debuff, will not interrupt AS.

Add to that our Snipes, Pets and lvl 38 secondaries... I think we'll still be fighting the good (bad) fight

Hot Feet doesn't damage?????

nobodys getting the whole issue of the post !.
Stalkers HAVE to team otherwise there effectiveness is lowered so badly they are forced to scrap.
I do not want to be forced into a team just so i can play in a certain zone or do a certain mission and crypic have said before that you don't have to but i7 is a total contradiction which i'm just highlighting with the +per problem.
Heroes don't need to team as highlighted in my first post so i don't see why stalkers have to.

Cryptic said you dont have to team if you dont want to? I thought that only applied to PvE?

You're complaining because you can't repeat exactly the same tactic, all the time, against every AT, solo. I7 hasn't changed this, it's introduced a new zone where Heroes have access to Epics in PvP and focused accuracy is the only new +Per power and then only available to Tanks and Scrappers; everything else is the same as before. Stalkers need to adapt your approach and tactics depending on the situation like everyone else.

Have you been into to RV yet?

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In i7 stalkers will be forced to team to try and get grant invis to max out stealth...

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This has always been the case, you must just not have noticed until recently.

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Hot Feet doesn't damage?????

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You're right of course, sorry - someone said so in the AS buff thread I read recently, and I hadn't taken HF myself before then. My mistake =)

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You're complaining because you can't repeat exactly the same tactic, all the time, against every AT, solo. I7 hasn't changed this, it's introduced a new zone where Heroes have access to Epics in PvP and focused accuracy is the only new +Per power and then only available to Tanks and Scrappers; everything else is the same as before. Stalkers need to adapt your approach and tactics depending on the situation like everyone else.

Have you been into to RV yet?

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Yeah, what Filth said, [removed]

You don't HAVE to team as a stalker to get kills in PVP,and you dont have to go into to PVP zones to complete any of the PVE story arc's. I'm in no way great at pvp, but can hold my own even if heroes are teamed, and running clear mind etc. i've still manage to pick them off, ok at times it's not easy. And even if they have enough perception to see you, it's still possible to get in hidden and get an AS off before they know your there, you just have to think about how your gonna do it a bit more.

What you have to also consider it that in general heros tend to team a hell of a lot more than villains and when they do they are usually a lot more effective at it, so your at a disadvantage there anyway.

But yes I can see what your saying, but at the end of the day PVP in CoX can be great, but more often than not it's unbalanced due to the ratio's of heroes vs villains, It would be nice to be able to have the ability to hide, but there's no way your going to please everyone, so we have to adapt, (like the blappers will have to), at least they havent nurfed hide it's just that theres more ways of getting +Acc than their is of getting more stealth. That or your just gonna have to find heroes who dont want to team.

This is the reason i put this post in the stalker forum because ppl would just say 'oh shes whining about being seen' if i put it in PVP.. NO thats not what this post is about .. its about being FORCED into something .. its about HAVING to team or having your butt kicked by scrappers WHO DO NOT HAVE TO TEAM because they have the advantage of having all the powers to beable to see you WITHOUT a teams help.
If Scrappers had to team to get max +per i would not have a problem its the fact they can do it solo thats the main problem and theres noway a stalker can counteract that alone.
And yes i've been to RV.

An empath has to team, too, and i don't see any whining about it. There is not a supreme AT that can always beat any other. A good scrapper will beat a stalker, as a good controller will beat a scrapper, as a good blaster will beat a controller, as a good stalker will beat a blaster. It's all knowing who to attack, or team with the right peeps, and that's not only for scrappers

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Stalkers HAVE to team otherwise there effectiveness is lowered so badly they are forced to scrap.

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1) Blasters have always had to team, Blappers now have to as well.
2) Stalkers can still give me a damn good fight 1-1 and I'm still on the losing side in RV.

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An empath has to team, too, and i don't see any whining about it. There is not a supreme AT that can always beat any other. A good scrapper will beat a stalker, as a good controller will beat a scrapper, as a good blaster will beat a controller, as a good stalker will beat a blaster. It's all knowing who to attack, or team with the right peeps, and that's not only for scrappers

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Yes i know all that but do you think its right that a lone scrapper can force a stalker so he HAS to team to be on a even level ?
I'm sorry but i do not like to be forced to do anything.

oh an lets not forget there HAS to be someone on the team with grant invis or the stalker is just a poor scrapper with no critical hits.

You are not forced. You don´t HAVE to team. Hide isn´t your only power, and that a scrapper sees you doesn´t mean that he´s gonna kill you.
Instead of moaning about powers that makes you easier to get killed, try to create a tactic to prevent it.

i'd like for once to have a serious discussion about this so comments like 'stop whining and moaning' are nothing more than flame bait and i'll just get them removed.

Everybody in different situations needs to have a team, but you are never forced to. Every AT has pros and cons...

I think it's just going to be about time, eventually once we're the same level as the heroes, then the devs may take a hard look at perception levels, if it appears that stalkers are gimped and useless in PVP then perception may change, I dont think that will happen, but who knows.

Basically no one toon should be all powerfull, scappers can be hard but they can be beaten by stalkers 1 on 1, ultimatly a lot of it goes to the skill of the players, some scrappers are very hard to kill, but finding their weakness is what makes pvp interesting as by and large it can be done. Whereas before every hero decided to take the leadership pool, stalkers were the ultimate killing machines in sirens certainly 1 on 1 anyway, that had to change i'm just glad it did by heroes tweaking thier builds rather than sweeping changes from the dev's.

I don't think we can say I7 will be bad for stalkers until we reach level 50, it will be different for sure but it's too early to tell how effective we will be.