The one phrase while grouping that really gets me:

I would just like to point out that there is no nead for pets to be in melee range for them to draw agro for the team.

"Send in the pets" I would interpet as have them attack, not charge them stupidly into melee range, where bots and soldiers are less effective.

Dont need darkest night , simply put like max points out can solo AV or EB without it , can´t solo AV or EB without a tarpatch .

Second thing did you ever notice how much damage your pets do to a +2 stand aside so they dont have supremacy , tell them to attack and watch the nice grey damage above a +2 head , now dont tell me your pet does good damage after that , especially those battle drones with there standard attack of 2 2 2 ... really thats so awesome and great damage

[ QUOTE ]
Second thing did you ever notice how much damage your pets do to a +2 stand aside so they dont have supremacy , tell them to attack and watch the nice grey damage above a +2 head , now dont tell me your pet does good damage after that , especially those battle drones with there standard attack of 2 2 2 ... really thats so awesome and great damage

[/ QUOTE ]
I know I can happily send my bots to chase after (and kill) half-dead heroes in SC, way out of Supremacy range at times. (Obviously enough, that's without the level 32 Upgrade.) Do they need to do more damage? If so, that's what red insps are for, but I rarely use them.

So thats your explanation of there damage ?

Its like circumventing things , so using red inspi to buff up a single battle drones damage ?
Really so chasing a run away heroes , who are being chased by somebody else is example of your explanation of battle drones doing damage ?

While you can easily explain those numbers in pve with a simple test ? so can 3 battle drones take down 1 +2 minion without supremacy or you helping them ? not 32 upgraded .

What are the chances of success ?

How many +Acc enhancments do your pets have Loney?

hmm..........well if you have bots the drones have that glitch where they run in for no particular reason, protector bots have no melee attack so it's bestt to keep that one back and you can just send in the assault bot in, he's like a tank with legs damnit and has the most atttacks.

2 acc on the battle drones , but the test was done with petrifying gaze to see how much damage the drones would do on a +2 minion . minions are no risk especially when holded and drones on the other side without supremacy .

It was ridiculous low , so in reality 3 drones can´t even handle a +2 minion , so most endgame fights they are worthless supremacy and leadership makes up for it , but if they dont have it cause you are far off doing something else, they dont account for much .

Assualt Bot is a different story but thats cause its equel level as the MM

It might be worth putting 3 +accs in first tier pets at higher levels, since they will usually be fighting mobs +5 to them (the to hit penalty caps at +5).

[ QUOTE ]
not 32 upgraded .

What are the chances of success ?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know what it is exactly that you're trying to prove - Battle Drones don't do enough damage if you fail to buff them? Do you want a prize for making the most obvious post on the board, or will a simple commendation do? And in the "example" I gave, the Blaster I was thinking of wasn't being chased by anyone else, he was trying to solo me - after he gave up trying to chase me, he started trying to destroy my bots, managed to take out the Assault and PBots but decided to fly after hitting 1/4 health... the BDrones followed him up onto the rooftops - out of Supremacy - and scythed him down before he could return to base. (All this was achieved with a damage decrease in Sirens at the time.)

In terms of balance, I'd say that illustrates the point relatively well - PvP is a fairer basis for comparison I feel, as it's the one part of the game where balance issues are best highlighted. I don't need to know if unenhanced BDrones without Supremacy can take out a +2 minion, because it's an unrealistic scenario - if I don't use 4/5ths of my potential as a Stalker, I'd expect to find it hard going as well, not using any of my secondary and only the first attack from my primary (which is a comparable scenario). So far as I'm aware, I don't think anyone's shouting for buffs for underpowered Stalkers.

(And PRAF's got it right, a third Acc really helps the Drones for anything more than +2 mobs.)

[ QUOTE ]
It was ridiculous low , so in reality 3 drones can´t even handle a +2 minion , so most endgame fights they are worthless supremacy and leadership makes up for it , but if they dont have it cause you are far off doing something else, they dont account for much .

[/ QUOTE ]
That's not "reality" though, it's a test heavily biased in favour of a predetermined conclusion - why were the bots not buffed? What MM would leave his pets unattended for an extended period of time? How do my henchies, even without Leadership, still take out difficult targets? Mastermind damage isn't accrued solely by T1 henchmen, it's spread across all pets, and that's how they're balanced. Removing that balance and calling it unbalanced is an exercise in redundancy.

Its to your own reply that the bots do good damage when left on there own Syn they churn out good damage or do you forget your own replies , its not the to hit i want , cause sure i can put in another AC into the battle drones .

Now do 3 battle drones when they hit do sufficent enough damage to take down a +2 minion ?
It doesn´t so why slot for a extra AC when they have to stay close to you anyway for damage and accuracy buff , and again i am not talking about PvP , cause i dont care about PvP , PvP can and is balanced differently from PvE , using PvP as a context for PvE would screw up alot of the PvE mechanisme .

When you start saying cause PvP they do enough damage is it cause the blaster didn´t have a Energy protection a selfheal function , what damage would you do against a Tanker who takes out your drones , cause of one situation you base your consumption that in PvP the drones churn out enough damage.

Sorry unless you live in the PvP zone , you going to be leveling with teammates , and when in the endgame people like things to be higher levels , so you seriously think they are always fighting +1 ?
In what situation does a MM pet loses his damage buffs , well in the same situation you say leave those pets to turn out there own damage and they do good damage on there own you said without supremacy

MIne do fine, I use this system quite abit, leave my pets somewhere, normally out of sight and run of to find stuff for them to kill. Now true I try and get back to them before they actually have to do anywork but if I don't they don't have any real issues. To be honest though I wouldn't do this unless I had buffed them first, and I'll give them a tar patch to slow the baddies down. Heck I've even been know to drop insps onto the T2 & 3 pets.

One thing got me today doing the Nerva respec (did it the second time around today though ) is that when this was shouted at the Masterminds, some amoungst our number didnt bother to attack after all. One of them certainly didnt leaving us 6 whole robots short of an attacking force against Oranges/Reds, large numbers of them. So I had to wade in or no one would have, I lost either way. Having to look after my henchmen as I was the only one doing it got me killed. Repeating this process I just quit the Strike Force. You cant just let the Masterminds get on with it ALL of the time, plus if you do better communication is needed so all Masterminds cordinate the attack.

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry unless you live in the PvP zone , you going to be leveling with teammates , and when in the endgame people like things to be higher levels , so you seriously think they are always fighting +1 ?
In what situation does a MM pet loses his damage buffs , well in the same situation you say leave those pets to turn out there own damage and they do good damage on there own you said without supremacy

[/ QUOTE ]
I was playing on Relentless in teams since level 15ish, and that's precisely my point - in the instances where I wasn't in Supremacy range, when I was nipping about the battlefield, my bots were still doing enough damage (and more importantly, not dying) to take down masses of +2, +3 mobs. I've even left them to take out AVs whilst I dealt with controlling additional mob aggro. Given your theorising, that should never be able to happen - so somewhere, there's a discrepancy.

The other slotting issue that can significantly affect the suvivability of bots is if the protectors have a couple of defense SOs slotted for thier forcefields.

True i find also sending my bots as cannon fodder in a team a pain especially when you have dominaters with mass holding, confusing, sleeping effects and brutes with good defences there also but are just too affraid too charge in. So my way around this tp foe can always thin out the group first (espically after spending all that time buffing em > ) and if i or someone else accidently aggro's the rest i always have Black hole to fall back on which can very easily keep some of the mob out of the fight long enough till your team can take out the other non intangible mobs, youve just got to make sure to slot it with at least 2 accs other wise youll miss most of em. Although these days i find teaming with large groups with my mastermind absultely pointless since i tend to play on the top difficuilty (forgot the name) solo or with a mate or 2 but mostly solo and tend to find i earn more exp per min/hour than if i where playing with a team strangely enough :/

Most doms don't have aggro free opening moves. Have you seen how squishy doms are and how much aggro they get? Expecting a dom to open with an AoE control is in most situations VERY unreasonable.

Well now that I think about it after the 2 upgrades the battle drones are like mini assault bots, all they ever do is shoot, shoot and shoot some more, and act as cannon fodder.