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am I like the only person who rarely ever uses more than one damage SO in anyhting? :P (exception ebing aoe/nukes).
[/ QUOTE ]Propably, seeing as 3 damage SO's is the most efficient slotting.
efficient in what way? is it better to have say 2 damage rather than 1 damage 1 acc?
That depends on what you're fighting. However, most people put 4-6 slots in their attack powers, 1/2 ACC, 3 damage, 0-2 RechRdx, 0-2 EndRdx.
I always do 3 Dmg, 1/2 Acc and maybe a recharge or end rdx, depending on what AT I am.
3 damage can save more endurance than 3 end. Almost doubling base damage per hit, so half as many hits needed. For a brute this is less of an issue, but its still nice to have good damage pre fury
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
I have 2acc 2end red 1dmg and 1recharge in most of my brute moves i like having acc as imo there no point in massive dmg if u don't hit, also the -end always helpfull for long battles .... like an energizer bunny just keep goin 
my usual slotting is acc/dmg/endRed/rechRed I rarely slot single target attack more than 4 (unless I really have notign better to do with them). I'll have to think about trying more damage.
Interesting, so nobody really seems to double-slot acc, except for pvp?
Some people do, myself I find I'm hitting well enough with 1 acc.
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Interesting, so nobody really seems to double-slot acc, except for pvp?
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It depends on a couple of factors, really. I always double-slot for Acc due to PvP, and I've noticed that I fare better than people who don't in a) high difficulty missions; b) missions with acc debuffing mobs (CoT, Arachnos, etc).
It's hardly game-breaking whichever you choose, but I wouldn't slot any other way (unless I was running a specialised build).
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
I double slot on soem if I have the space and things like slow recharge stuff.
Most of my attacks were slotted 3xDamage, 2xAccuracy and 1xRecharge before my respec (at L32). On respec I reluctantly dropped one of the Accuracy SOs to take one End Reducer in every attack.
Did I notice the drop in accuracy in PvE? Against enemies +2 or less I noticed very little difference, solo or teamed. Against enemies +3 and above (i.e. in teams doing higher level missions containing lots of red/purple enemies) I missed more often, but while noticeable it wasnt debilitating. When debuffed by CoT Spectrals I really miss the extra accuracy as well, but it was still annoying with 2xAcc, and an Accuracy insp generally sorts it out either way. Generally I think the second Accuracy affects PvP a lot more than PvE (though I dont PvP much with my Brute).
I certainly wouldnt take less than 3xDamage SOs in each attack on any AT - I think that would affect overall efficiency a lot more than a second Accuracy would.
The End Reducer in each attack improved my efficiency a lot more noticeably than the second Accuracy SO had - post-respec I can run all 6 of my toggles permanently in combat (Fire Shield, Plasma Shield, Combat Jumping, Acrobatics, Tough and Blazing Aura) - I went from having to rest often pre-respec, to being able to do a whole mission solo on Vicious without stopping. Whether solo or teamed I can fight continuously because Consume is always available to top me up (every 90secs) whenever my End bar falls below a third. The few times Ive run out of Endurance have been in big teams when facing tons of End-draining enemies (like massed spawns of Mu Guardians), but most of the time I never run out of End. So in Endurance terms I feel my build is balanced.
So I think one Accuracy in each attack is fine for PvE, unless you regularly group with players above your level or PvP a lot. That said, Im really hoping one of the Patron power sets at L41-50 has a power like Focused Accuracy so I'll be able to PvP in Recluse's Victory 
I'll post my build if anyone feels it would be helpful to see my slotting, but I don't really want to draw attention away from Gen_Prot_Fault's build (because I don't want/need feedback on my own build).
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I'll post my build if anyone feels it would be helpful to see my slotting, but I don't really want to draw attention away from Gen_Prot_Fault's build (because I don't want/need feedback on my own build).
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You can just make a post with really small text
Not even sure where you get the slots to 6 slto things :/ I can squeeze in 5 slots in things. I do like the idea of millions of damage thoguh =).
Please, feel free to post your build Valkryst, I'm pretty sure I've got a good idea what I'm going with this brute now, thanks to all the great advice you guys have given.
When you really sit down and look at it, having finally got an idea of how to play a brute and what's needed, there's not really that much you can fiddle with with a fire/fire brute really. Your travel form is fixed by needing Aerobatics, Boxing is a pre-req for Toughness, which is inarguably useful and stamina is needed of course. Maybe all brutes are like this, I'm not sure, but surely it means that all fire/fire brutes will be VERY similar 
Only things I'm undecided on atm, are:
* Air Superiority - for some reason, I find myself wondering if I really want this, so I'm going to take it before I respec and see if I like it, before committing to it. I guess my attack chain would be kinda crappy with just Boxing, Fire Sword and Cremate though. I guess the main reason is due to below.
* Build Up and Fiery Embrace - Would love both of these, but at what sacrifice. Hence why Rise of the Phoenix is swapped for Build Up in my newest build. My temptation to not take Air Sup is due to trying to save a skill for this (though I'm sure I'll take Air Sup once common sense prevails and I've tried it)
* Rise of the Phoenix - Would love to have this as an emergency fight turner (and good for soloing) even if it is very situational, another reason being it would give me something move interesting than Build Up, Tough, or Aerobatics to look forward to at 38 . Maybe I can take it at 41 instead if need be.
Anyway, a couple of thoughts to add to the accuracy, etc debate:
* According to hero builder, the base "hero" accuracy for PvE is 75% (50% PvP), with one SO adding 33% (75 / 3 = 25%) making it 100% (though the cap is of course 95%). So the only reason I can see for slotting more acc is for higher level mobs, when you get debuffed (CoT, etc) or PvP. Though I'd swear I can tell a difference in the miss ratio with only one SO in - but maybe that's just me thinking "crap, shoulda slotted more ACC every time I miss"
* Aerobatics "Mag1" protection from knockbacks. Does this work well across the game, or does it become useless later on, when presumably mobs are dropping more knockbacks on you?
One question though, is it worth 3 slotting Health with 3 heal SO's (to make it up to +80% healing), or isn't it worth bothering with beyond the one slot it starts with?
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You can just make a post with really small text
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Lol
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Not even sure where you get the slots to 6 slto things :/ I can squeeze in 5 slots in things. I do like the idea of millions of damage thoguh =).
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Its just a matter of prioritising. As a Brute your primary is a damage set and your main role is damage-dealer, so your attacks should get prioritised for slots. As a Fire/Fire Tanker your role would be different so youd prioritise your shields and taunts ahead of your attacks. Though after ED theres much less of a choice/difference between Brute and Tanker because it's not worth 6-slotting shields anymore - imho most Tankers/Brutes/Scrappers should be able to 3-slot their defensive shields and 6-slot their attacks without too much trouble... providing you dont take more attacks (or other utility stuff) than you actually need 
Brutes arent too bad - in my experience brutes have just enough slots to go around without too many tough decisions - Ive found Corruptor is about the same, but imho Dominator and especially Stalker are much tighter for slots. The only archetype Ive found easier on slotting than Brute is Mastermind.
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One question though, is it worth 3 slotting Health with 3 heal SO's (to make it up to +80% healing), or isn't it worth bothering with beyond the one slot it starts with?
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Its probably more useful for a Brute than any other CoV archetype, as we have the most hit points (and the more hit points you have, the faster the regen from health is, because you regen more HP per tick). But its still not going to replace having a heal and would mainly be useful as a downtime reducer. But as a brute it will usually be Endurance rather than Health that holds you back (while trying to keep Fury high) - providing you slot Healing Flames with 2/3 Recharges and 3 Heals it should easily do the job of keeping you alive in most circumstances (including taking the alpha-strike from a full spawn in an 8-strong team, which I did often while levelling).
Its a small bonus really to 3-slot Health, compared to just the basic slot - I think youll find those two slots give you a better return when used elsewhere. In fact the only character Ive considered slotting Health on is my Regen Scrapper, because it stacks with the regens from his secondary, so is actually contributing directly to his main method of mitigation.
Ok heres my build:
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Exported from Ver: 1.7.5.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Brute - FieryMelee + FieryAura (to L40)
Level: 50
Archetype: Brute
Primary: Fiery Melee
Secondary: Fiery Aura
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Fire Sword==> Acc(1)EndRdx(3)Dmg(3)Dmg(5)Dmg(5)Rechg(7)
01) --> Fire Shield==> DmgRes(1)DmgRes(7)DmgRes(9)
02) --> Cremate==> Acc(2)EndRdx(9)Dmg(11)Dmg(11)Dmg(13)Rechg(13)
04) --> Healing Flames==> Rechg(4)Rechg(15)Heal(15)Heal(34)Heal(39)
06) --> Boxing==> Acc(6)EndRdx(17)Dmg(33)Dmg(33)Dmg(34)Rechg(34)
08) --> Air Superiority==> Acc(8)EndRdx(17)Dmg(19)Dmg(19)Dmg(21)Rechg(21)
10) --> Build Up==> Rechg(10)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Plasma Shield==> DmgRes(16)DmgRes(23)DmgRes(25)
18) --> Blazing Aura==> Acc(18)EndRdx(23)EndRdx(31)
20) --> Consume==> Acc(20)Rechg(25)Rechg(33)Rechg(39)
22) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(22)
24) --> Hurdle==> Jump(24)
26) --> Fire Sword Circle==> Acc(26)EndRdx(27)Dmg(27)Dmg(29)Dmg(29)Rechg(40)
28) --> Health==> Heal(28)
30) --> Stamina==> EndMod(30)EndMod(31)EndMod(31)
32) --> Greater Fire Sword==> Acc(32)EndRdx(36)Dmg(36)Dmg(36)Dmg(37)Rechg(37)
35) --> Tough==> DmgRes(35)DmgRes(37)DmgRes(39)EndRdx(40)
38) --> Fiery Embrace==> Rechg(38)Rechg(40)
---------------------------------------------
This was a respec build (respec at L32) - if I was levelling up from the beginning again Id probably take Hurdle/Health/Stamina at 16/18/20 and delay Consume/BlazingA/PlasmaS until 24/28/30 (or swap in BlazingA or PlasmaS for Build-Up, though it's harder to run an extra toggle pre-Stamina and pre-SO - I originally had BlazingA at L8 pre-respec and could barely use it til post-SOs). And dont take any notice of the levels I put the slots in - if I was playing this build again from scratch Id just add slots to whichever powers I felt needed them at that moment.
My usual attack chain is: Cremate -> auto-Boxing -> Air Superiority -> Fire Sword -> auto-Boxing -> Air Superiority ... and repeat until everything is dead. With the Recharge SOs in all my attacks that chain is continuous with no gaps (my planner says theres a 0.1 sec gap before each Air Superiority after the initial attacks, but its not noticeable in play). Against a boss/EB/AV/Hero/GM that needs to die quickly Ill throw in a Greater Fire Sword whenever its available, but normally I dont use it on minions/lieutenants because it isnt very End/Fury efficient. Fire Sword Circle is usually my opener in teams.
Theres only one change Id make if I had another good reason to respec - Id drop the Recharge from Boxing (doesnt really need it) and put another End Reducer into Blazing Aura - but my build doesnt really need it Endurance-wise so Im not going to waste my remaining respec just to move a single slot. Id also like Fiery Embrace and Build-Up 3-slotted for Recharge, but as I only use them at the start of a fight (before Fire Sword Circle) those slots are not really necessary either - BU and FE are both always up when I need them.
Youll never be able to slot everything to the max so its just a matter of prioritising whats most important to you. I wanted a Brute that was a PvE god, able to do massive damage (more than any other brute build because of the AEs) and keep doing that damage continuously at high Fury without worrying about Endurance/Health - I have that, but with the drawbacks that Im not so good in PvP and my single-target damage isnt as good as other brutes (my SS/Dark is better single-target) - I also have no toys (i.e. utilities/tricks like Phoenix or Burn) and I can't tank as well as a /Stone in Granite or a /Invul using Unstoppable (but I'll be doing better damage than the /Stone and my all-round resists are better than /Invul when they're not in Unstoppable, though not quite as good as a /Dark) - I'm just damage and mitigation, and the powers that support that.
The build does what I needed and suits my playstyle, so its the best build for me. It may not be best for you. Really there is no best brute build.
Well, I respecced last night, and took Air Sup and Boxing (and took Build up instead of Aerobatics, until level 30).
I was definately unsure about Air Sup, but I gotta say, it's a total blast. Knock down, couple attacks, knock down, almost feel sorry for those poor mobs.
Kinda miss Incinerate, but it can't be helped, something had to give and Air Sup is definately more useful to me.
I do generate rage a lot faster, but I'm running out of end faster now, presumably due to the faster cycling attacks. Guess it's time to take and slot Consume, didn't really need it before ;-)
Thanks for the advice guys, Air Sup is prob the most useful skill I've got for survivability.
I have a brute stuck with a bugged mission, so it's currently on the shelf.
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that all fire/fire brutes will be VERY similar
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do generate rage a lot faster, but I'm running out of end faster now, presumably due to the faster cycling attacks. Guess it's time to take and slot Consume, didn't really need it before ;-)
[/ QUOTE ]
Consume is a fantastic power and well worth getting anyway. Until you get it a fast way to build Fury without using much End is just to alternate Boxing and Brawl on the first few easy mobs in a mission (it's partly the reason I still have a Recharge SO in Boxing) - Fury builds fast, it doesn't cost much End, then once your Fury hits 80-90% you can get into your usual attack chain.
Fury is your god and he has a ravenous appetite for Endurance until youve fattened him up a bit, so you need a power like Consume that helps you to feed him Once you get that balanced youll find everything takes care of itself: continuous high Fury = more damage done = kill things faster = less Endurance spent & less damage taken = faster levelling with less resting.
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the advice guys, Air Sup is prob the most useful skill I've got for survivability.
[/ QUOTE ]
Told ya
I love Air Superiority so much I now find myself taking it for most of my characters, even on ranged/squishy ATs that aren't taking Fly as travel power! In fact its even better for melee survivability on a squishy - they only need it slotted with 2xAccuracy SOs for a 95% chance (always 5% chance to miss in CoH/V) to knockdown any minion/lieut/boss up to a +4 - stick it on auto and if something gets in melee just click your "target nearest" key and they hit the ground for 2 seconds, buying you time to do something more decisive (kill, control or run) - thats good melee mitigation for a squishy.
[ QUOTE ]
a fast way to build Fury without using much End is just to alternate Boxing and Brawl on the first few easy mobs in a mission (it's partly the reason I still have a Recharge SO in Boxing) - Fury builds fast, it doesn't cost much End, then once your Fury hits 80-90% you can get into your usual attack chain.
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Now that's a great idea, gonna give that a try. Since I notice in teams I never get much rage really (what with bots and other brutes and stuff).
Thanks again.
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Since I notice in teams I never get much rage really (what with bots and other brutes and stuff).
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Yeah its difficult building and maintaining Fury in teams, unless they're willing to move at your pace. Teams made up mainly of brutes tend to be fast.
Targets die faster in teams, before you can build Fury, so make sure youre being hit by as many enemies as possible, because with bigger spawns youll get more Fury from being hit than from your own attacks (unlike when youre solo). Fortunately the Fire/Fire Brute is a walking aggro magnet - Blazing Aura and Fire Sword Circle make you unpopular with everything. Also the alpha-strike from a full spawn in a big team can spike your Fury up to 75+% very rapidly, so try to be first into combat. Just don't try taking the alpha from a spawn with lots of cold, psionic or toxic damage, unless you have a team-mate with heals backing you up.
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Air Sup is prob the most useful skill I've got for survivability.
[/ QUOTE ]
I just realised that Air Superiority slotted 2xAcc, 3xRchg would be a 95% reliable knockdown every 2 seconds - thats very tempting - you could keep a single-target down permanently and still have time to fire off a big attack between each knockdown. Probably overkill for a brute/tanker/scrapper, but perhaps handy for a stalker (if they need to scrap) or a blapper - I might try it on my elec/elec blaster at L22
Well, finally hit 37 and took my 2nd respec (saved it until 37 so I could change enh's at the same time). So I thought I'd post my updated build here for anyone that's interested ;-)
I definately agree with Valkryst that Air Superiority is superb, but I missed Incinerate, it's a great little attack, and one of the better single-target damage ones in the fire melee "tree".
As it is, I had a bad habit of using Air Sup -> Fire Sword -> Cremate -> Auto Boxing so my chain was sometimes broken and this fixes that too.
Overall, seems pretty decent to me so far, and I'll take Fiery Embrace at lvl41 or higher since the PPP's definately leave me a couple of spare skills to get ;-)
---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
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Name: Makie
Level: 40
Archetype: Brute
Primary: Fiery Melee
Secondary: Fiery Aura
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Fire Sword==> EndRdx(1)Rechg(5)Acc(5)Acc(13)Dmg(15)Dmg(25)
01) --> Fire Shield==> DmgRes(1)DmgRes(3)DmgRes(3)
02) --> Cremate==> EndRdx(2)Rechg(7)Acc(7)Acc(13)Dmg(15)Dmg(25)
04) --> Healing Flames==> Rechg(4)Rechg(11)Heal(34)Heal(34)Heal(34)
06) --> Air Superiority==> EndRdx(6)Rechg(19)Acc(19)
08) --> Incinerate==> EndRdx(8)Rechg(9)Empty(9)Acc(17)Dmg(17)Dmg(33)
10) --> Boxing==> EndRdx(10)Acc(11)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Swift==> Run(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --> Plasma Shield==> DmgRes(22)DmgRes(23)DmgRes(23)
24) --> Consume==> Rechg(24)Rechg(39)Rechg(39)Acc(40)
26) --> Fire Sword Circle==> EndRdx(26)Rechg(27)Acc(27)Dmg(31)Dmg(31)Dmg(33)
28) --> Tough==> DmgRes(28)DmgRes(29)DmgRes(29)EndRdx(31)
30) --> Build Up==> Rechg(30)
32) --> Greater Fire Sword==> EndRdx(32)Rechg(33)Acc(36)Acc(37)Dmg(37)Dmg(37)
35) --> Blazing Aura==> EndRdx(35)EndRdx(36)Taunt(36)Dmg(39)Dmg(40)Dmg(40)
38) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(38)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> EndRdx(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Fury==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------
:O Looks just like mine, Makie but I did not fit Air Sup in, Took BU + FE ... We should team again at some point I'm 38 atm.
Thanks again for the info guys, got a pretty good idea what I'm doing now, compared to the start of this thread, when I had no idea whatsoever