Fire primary is certainly not gimped, not played the fire secondry but it has generally higher res than the Dark against most damage types, obviously not Psy and Neg En, a self heal, and an end recovery power. Sounds alright to me
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Yeah, that pretty much summed up my thoughts as well, plus I know a en/fire brute and his defence certainly isn't poor.
Maybe I misunderstood, the topic was discussing pvp as well, so maybe I missed something. I'm mainly interested in PvE and solo anyway.
Thanks
I certainly feel weaker than /invul and /stone but having said don't feel gimped at all 
. The heal is good, the end recovery is good, the extra build up (fiery embrace) is nice to have. Your pretty much immune to them flame throwers :P.
I havn't got as far as the self res yet but I can see that coming in pretty handy, res + healing flames+consume and your good to go. Only 2 toggles which both recharge pretty fast. Down side is having to get acrobatics for the knock back protection.
In short, it;s not gimped :P /inv and /stone can take more of a beating. I can't really compare dark/energy.
I just made a Fire/Fire mainly for more of a thematic purpose than anything else. It's the first brute I've played and I'm liking it. I'm even considering training it more than I do my Stalker.
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I just made a Fire/Fire mainly for more of a thematic purpose than anything else. It's the first brute I've played and I'm liking it. I'm even considering training it more than I do my Stalker.
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I had a stalker, then I made the brute and never played the silly stalker ever again :P
Thanks for the info guys.
So far I've got her to lvl7 and she's having a much easier time of it than my dark/dark, but that is partly because I've a much better idea of how a play a brute now (with my dark I made the mistake of taking too many toggles early for example).
rage wise, she seems to generate less rage that my dark/dark. even though the first three attacks in the fire/xx tree are nice and fast, but the extra damage more than makes up for it.
And yeah, I'd already specced for Aerobatics, because xx/dark has the same issue.
I assume I'm going for fitness ASAP, even with consume? and I've been told hasten is good for a brute. any other good pp advice?
MY attack chain is just fine without hasten. It would help with consume but you can easily go without it and still keep the atatcks coming. Stamina is pretty much needed to a brute imo 
. I frequently get low even with stam and plenty of end red in toggles/ppattacks. Consume is usually around when my end gets low. It's definatly worth having but can not replace stamina imo.
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Fire primary is certainly not gimped
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agree with that, and Fire as a 2end is quite good, i'm aso saying that cause i love tanks 
There were only two situations in all 40 levels for my Fire/Fire that I felt defensively weaker than another brute: when I was teamed with a /Stone in Granite or a /Invul using Unstoppable (which they can't use often).
Offensively I only felt weaker if the enemy we were fighting had lots of fire resist (the AV Baphomet and the hero Infernal, specifically) - the rest of the time I always assumed I was doing better damage than any other brute because Fire/Fire not only has the best AE attack of any brute (Fire Sword Circle), but the best damage aura (Blazing Aura) and two damage buffs (Build Up, Fiery Embrace).
Fire/Fire is great if you want to deal tons of damage (if you mainly want to tank and don't care about damage then I'd argue you're in the wrong game, playing the wrong AT). You also get both an end-drain (Consume) and a heal - both of which are must-haves in my opinion. And the only drawback is that you really need Combat Jumping and Acrobatics to fill out your status protection - but Super Jump is a fun & fast travel power, so that's not too bad.
An End reducer SO in each attack is handy (my attacks are mostly set up 1Acc, 3Dmg, 1EndRed, 1Rchg for PvE). Stamina is essential, Hasten certainly isn't - if you want a fast continuous attack chain then consider picking up either Boxing or Air Superiority (or both) - with Fire Sword & Cremate they make a particularly nice attack chain for both damage and Fury-building (I found Scorch and Incinerate animated a bit slowly).
Seeing all those big orange numbers when you have full Fury, hit Build-Up and Fiery Embrace, then trigger Fire Sword Circle, makes you laugh maniacally - then a second or two later lots of the enemy fall over dead, as Blazing Aura mops up whatever is still alive, then you laugh even louder Fire/Fire isn't weak.
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There were only two situations in all 40 levels for my Fire/Fire that I felt defensively weaker than another brute: when I was teamed with a /Stone in Granite or a /Invul using Unstoppable (which they can't use often).
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Granite is always on if you choose to have it on 
... was thinking of making a fire/fire brtue myself now after reading this topic, I may have to :P
Again, thanks for the info.
It's interesting you mention the animation times for Scorch and Incinerate, because the hero builder says they 1.67, faster than Fire Sword, but sure don't seem it, almost seems like it's using a "draw weapon animation" first. Maybe another instance where the hero builder is out of date *shrug*
lvl10 atm, and took incinerate for the moment to fill out my attacks. With full rage and that I'm already starting to laugh like a maniac as I pop it on a single target, and then attack something else as it quietly dies behind me ;-) ).
So far so good.
I wouldn't miss incinerate from the build, with full fury its your second "one hit kill" attack. Not sure whether it still one hits because I lead with Fire Sword Circle now, but it hurts someone enough that you can turn your attention elsewhere while they burn, and attack you to generate more fury
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
[ QUOTE ]
/Invul using Unstoppable (which they can't use often).
[/ QUOTE ]Unstoppable is up half the time with 3 rechargers and hasten.
Got to lvl16 and I'm definately enjoying this char. Need a bit of advice though, all the skills I *think*
I would like, I can't fit in. Can anyone advise which of these isn't worth bothering with?
I get the impression that Temperature Protection isn't *that* useful (got plenty of fire protection anyway) and Rise of the Phoenix is nice to have, but not mandatory.
These are in no particular order, just selected quickly from the builder, I obviously, wouldn't build my char with the skills in that order ;-)
01) --> Scorch
01) --> Fire Shield
02) --> Fire Sword
04) --> Cremate
06) --> Healing Flames
08) --> Combat Jumping
10) --> Incinerate
12) --> Swift
14) --> Super Jump
16) --> Plasma Shield
18) --> Health
20) --> Stamina
22) --> Acrobatics
24) --> Blazing Aura
26) --> Consume
28) --> Burn
30) --> Fire Sword Circle
32) --> Greater Fire Sword
35) --> Breath of Fire
38) --> Fiery Embrace
41) --> Build Up
Don't take burn. It;s [censored]. Combat jumping takes care of immob protection nand the damage isn't too good and everythign just runs off anyway. I think theres a htread about it here some where and the general opinion it's not worth having.
Apart from that everyhting else is alright. If you need to make room well could drop either build up of fiery imbrace, could also drop fiery aura. Sure is nice to have but with breath of fire/fire sword circle you wont have any problem agroing. If you do want the aura then consider dropping fire breath.
Yeah, after posting saw some threads with ideas. Seems Burn is useless atm, though may be different in I7.
Not convinced whether Build Up and Fiery Embrace are both needed, as you said. Build up can probably go. Presumably they don't stack?
Not sure about fire breath, if it's the same as the corr's then it's prob not all that useful bearing in mind the lvl26 and lvl32 AoE's.
Also noticed some poeople recommend Boxing and Air Sup instead of Incinerate and Scorch. Might have to look into that, since Toughness could be handy, and already incinerate is losing it's usefuleness (lvl17).
Definately after Fiery Aura, even though it's an end hog ;-)
Also, not specific to fire/fire but what's the consensus on slotting defensive toggles, how many +dmg reduction SO's to people usually slot in them?
Again, thanks for all the info guys, helping a lot, can't wait to get a bit further so I'm past the major end drain problems ;-)
Fiery Embrcace and Build up do stack.Hitting them both then doing fire breath/fire sword circle with high fury would be nice . If I had to choose one or the other I'd be tempted to just take build up since it add +acc too. With Blazing Aura though the 30 seconds of inc fire damage would be nice thoguh.. :P
Fire breath has quite a short range and quite a small cone from my experience. I got rid of it though so I can't comment. In large groups it would probably be quite nice but if you need to make space you could drop it np.
I wouldn't like to drop incinerate nor scrorch :/. Haven't played without them though so can't comment much. air Superiority is a really nice filler for the knockdown. Works great for bosses, Wouldn't like it to replace Inicinerate.
For slotting well depends on your end issues the more +res/def the merrier (max 3). I have 3 dmg red SO's in fire/plasma shield and 1 end red. They are really cheap toggles as it is so it;s better putting any extra slots into your combat jumping/acrobatics/blazing aura.
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It's interesting you mention the animation times for Scorch and Incinerate, because the hero builder says they 1.67, faster than Fire Sword, but sure don't seem it, almost seems like it's using a "draw weapon animation" first.
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Yes Scorch/Incinerate seem to have a small amount of dead time, both before and after the animation, which slows them down - Fire Sword definitely feels faster in practice (it has no draw time). Fire Sword Circle has some dead time after the animation, but as a situational attack it wont hurt Fury-building too badly. But Scorch in particular is rubbish in an attack chain as an auto-power filler attack when compared to Boxing or Air Superiority, both of which are faster and have nice secondary effects.
I had Scorch and Incinerate, but dropped both on my first respec and dont regret it. My Fury-building and kill-rate were both so much faster and more efficient with the attack chain: AirSup/FireSword/Cremate & auto-Boxing, than they were with AirSup/FireSword/Incinerate & auto-Scorch - I was so much happier with my brute after I respecced, it made an immense difference.
The main problem I have with Incinerate and Breath of Fire is that they both recharge slowly (10secs basic), so you cant use them in your continuous attack chain - that makes them situational - and for high single-target damage (boss-killing, mainly) Greater Fire Sword is better than Incinerate, and for killing multiple targets to thin out a spawn Fire Sword Circle is better than Breath of Fire. So how many situational attacks can you justify in your build?
Id found myself using Incinerate less and less as I levelled up - its fun at low levels, but in teams it is too slow and someone will kill your target before Incinerate runs full course, making it a waste of Endurance. With cone attacks like Breath of Fire your dilemma is: do you waste time (losing Fury) moving to make sure it hits the most targets, do you just use it as a regular attack and risk hitting only one target (a waste of Endurance) or do you only use it against big spawns (very situational)?
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Granite is always on if you choose to have it on
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Yeah I know - I was only talking about Unstoppable
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I have 3 dmg red SO's in fire/plasma shield and 1 end red. They are really cheap toggles as it is so it;s better putting any extra slots into your combat jumping/acrobatics/blazing aura.
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Yes Fire/Plasma Shield are cheap - I noticed no benefit from having End Reducers in there, so I took them out - just 3 Damage Resists in each. Combat Jumping doesn't benefit much from extra slots - it's very cheap End-wise so I just put a Jump SO in mine /shrug. Acrobatics is cheap too, but there's nothing worthwhile you can put in it, so a single EndRed is fine.
I wanted to run Blazing Aura and Tough constantly (as well as both shields, CJ & Acro) so I put 1 End Reducer in Tough and 2 in Blazing Aura - with one End Reducer in each attack as well (that made a huge difference) I can fight continuously without resting, solo or teamed, because Consume (with 3 Recharges) is always available whenever my Endurance drops below 30% (of course I have Stamina 3-slotted as well - goes without say).
What you've said about Incinerate and Scorch totally meshes with my experiences. Incinerate was awesome at lvl10 and is now already a highly situational spell to me, at best a fast DoT, rather than a chain attack.
I'm using Brawl as an auto-attack, and even then it's not a good attack chain for me with Scorch, Fire Sword, Cremate and Incinerate. Also I forgot about Toughness, so I need to drop something to take Boxing anyway (bye bye scorch I think).
Is Air Sup that useful? or it just a handy quick attack with the ability to bring down flyers?
Surprised nobody's suggesting slotting more than 3 def enh's as well, don't they give less benefit than normal SO's? so ED won't kick in until about 4 or 5 of 'em?
Assuming I go with Air Sup, and take Swift rather than Hurdle (trivial change). This is what I guess I'm looking at as my spec for the mo, unless anyone has any other suggestions ;-)
---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Makie
Level: 41
Archetype: Brute
Primary: Fiery Melee
Secondary: Fiery Aura
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Fire Sword==> Acc(1)Acc(3)EndRdx(3)Rechg(5)Dmg(31)Dmg(33)
01) --> Fire Shield==> DmgRes(1)DmgRes(17)DmgRes(21)
02) --> Cremate==> Acc(2)Rechg(5)EndRdx(7)Rechg(11)Dmg(33)Dmg(33)
04) --> Healing Flames==> EndRdx(4)Rechg(7)Rechg(9)Heal(9)Heal(11)Heal(40)
06) --> Boxing==> Acc(6)Acc(13)EndRdx(13)Rechg(15)Dmg(34)Dmg(34)
08) --> Air Superiority==> Acc(8)Acc(15)EndRdx(17)Rechg(34)Dmg(34)Dmg(40)
10) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(10)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Plasma Shield==> DmgRes(16)DmgRes(19)DmgRes(19)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(23)
22) --> Blazing Aura==> EndRdx(22)EndRdx(23)Acc(25)Acc(25)Dmg(27)Dmg(27)
24) --> Consume==> Rechg(24)Rechg(29)Rechg(29)
26) --> Fire Sword Circle==> Acc(26)Acc(37)EndRdx(39)Rechg(39)Dmg(39)Dmg(40)
28) --> Tough==> DmgRes(28)DmgRes(31)DmgRes(31)
30) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(30)
32) --> Greater Fire Sword==> Acc(32)Acc(36)Rechg(36)EndRdx(36)Dmg(37)Dmg(37)
35) --> Fiery Embrace==> Rechg(35)
38) --> Rise of the Phoenix==> Rechg(38)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==>
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Fury==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------
Just taking a look at your build couple of things stand out. 1 uve only got 2 damages in your attacks even though the 3rd wont be as affective its still worth having anything over 4 usually isnt. Also 1 acc is normally enough in your attacks unless u feel you miss alot or like to drop into pvp every now and then.
am I like the only person who rarely ever uses more than one damage SO in anyhting? :P (exception ebing aoe/nukes).
Hmm, think I can make a viable attack chain without Air Sup? Mate just pointed out I forgot Build up, since it stack with Fiery Embrace for some SILLY AoE dmg ;-)
If you want to drop something to get Build Up then Id suggest Rise of the Phoenix - but thats only because I dislike powers that need me to die before I can use them If it cancelled out the debt from the death it might be worth it, but otherwise Id only be tempted to take it if I PvPd a lot with my Brute and wanted an avenge my own death power
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Is Air Sup that useful? or it just a handy quick attack with the ability to bring down flyers?
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I find it very useful and have it on both of my brutes. Air Superiority is not just -fly, it's a guaranteed knockdown if it hits. While an enemy is lying on their back they can't use powers/attacks, which is great against everything, but especially enemies that like to heal, summon or use other annoying effects (e.g. Fear, Confuse, Placate - I really hate succubi...) - it even works on some AVs/heroes (like Aurora Borealis), so can cut their damage/effects output.
And knocking things down is just good fun and makes you really feel super-powered - the whole reason I made a Super Strength Brute (the day after my Fire/Fire hit 40, hehe) is just so I could have multiple knockdown attacks - and I still took Air Superiority again as well!
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Hmm, think I can make a viable attack chain without Air Sup? Mate just pointed out I forgot Build up, since it stack with Fiery Embrace for some SILLY AoE dmg ;-)
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If you keep using Brawl then sure. Personally I didnt want to use Brawl, because it lowers your damage-per-second, especially as you wont be slotting it. Fury-building is important, but you also need to be kicking out some good fast continuous damage for the Fury to multiply
And yes you definitely want Build-Up as well as Fiery Embrace - both of those, with full Fury and 3xDamage SOs in Fire Sword Circle should give you +580% damage bonus, iirc - that's almost 7 times basic damage! Numbers aside, opening with that combination you will either kill most minions (whether 0, +1 or +2) or leave them so low on HP that the next tick of Blazing Aura kills them - and most Lieuts can be finished in one hit too. It's addictive watching all those orange numbers float up, as the minions fall down
Some people indicated that fire/fire was a bit gimped, can anyone elaborate?
I'm currently playing a dark/dark brute and want to try a variant with a bit more attack variety and AoEs.
Thanks