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Sgt_Furnace
Just tested it on a brute called Project VIII. And guess what? I could perma-phase him even WITHOUT hasten on.
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Was that in a PvP zone, or in the Arena. I was specifically taking about arena. In the arena, I believe the duration of detention field is somewhere in the region of 10seconds. I have not tested this due to some obvious reasons, namely not having a FF defender. With a recharge of 21.42 seconds WITH hasten, and a duration of about 10seconds, one can see why I came to the conclusion that FF's detention field can not be made permanent.
Also in many tournaments of PvP, you are allowed a maximum of 2 AT's per 8 man team. Try and design a different team that consists of only a maximum of 2 AT's, and you might be taken seriously.
I wasn't laying down the law....I was just saying that if done properly, this could very well be a hard team to beat.
And Sgt_Furnace. Just tested it in the arena my lvl 23 def against a lvl 49 blaster. And guess what? You are a liar!
I can perma it WITHOUT hasten in the arena. What other lie will you come up with this time I wonder...
Maybe try not lying and you might be taken more seriously. Many PvP tournaments? Well what about the others with no such rules where you can have as many of 1 AT as you want? I dunno.....do we even have them on this server or against defiant?
Maybe we could just keep that team in reserve for those 'special tounaments'. When is the next one please seeing as you seem to know how often they occur?
But fine....you lot forget I even mentioned it. How dare I suggest that a team of 8 bubblers might be able to keep 7 people perma-phased.
Now explain to everyone why you lied please.
@Sweet Chilli
[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't laying down the law....I was just saying that if done properly, this could very well be a hard team to beat.
And Sgt_Furnace. Just tested it in the arena my lvl 23 def against a lvl 49 blaster. And guess what? You are a liar!
I can perma it WITHOUT hasten in the arena. What other lie will you come up with this time I wonder...
Maybe try not lying and you might be taken more seriously. Many PvP tournaments? Well what about the others with no such rules where you can have as many of 1 AT as you want? I dunno.....do we even have them on this server or against defiant?
Maybe we could just keep that team in reserve for those 'special tounaments'. When is the next one please seeing as you seem to know how often they occur?
But fine....you lot forget I even mentioned it. How dare I suggest that a team of 8 bubblers might be able to keep 7 people perma-phased.
Now explain to everyone why you lied please.
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OK bob, please calm down. Sgt never lied, he only expressed that that was what he understood to be the case. If it is not, we will take your word for it.
Your idea is NOT a bad one. If it could be pulled off on a regular basis, it would indeed be a very good strategy.
However you have posted your opinion in a forum topic. This means you intend for it to be dicussed. At no point have you been flamed, on the contrary, people have given you the reasons they perceive to be the plans flaws. By all means, disagree, counter, or think of ways around the problems presented to you. All the people who have given those reasons have a very very good knowledge of pvp.
Forget Union, there is nobody I know in COx with more pvp knowledge than cherry, who wrote,
[ QUOTE ]
I have a bubbler they can get creamed by blappers, detoggled quite easyily by defenders/controllers (repel for example, repulsion field, lighting cloud all detogglers that cause big problems for bubblers) and once slowed by an AoE slow they are screwed.
Plus with all the bubblers in PFF all it would take is a defense debuff and 3 or more stacked holds, easily co-ordinated by the opposing team, on one target and they held since theyre only getting the protection of one dispersion bubbler.
Any team with only 1 type of 1 AT will be inherently weak you need to mix and match them.
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In a nutshell, it is noones intention to ruin your idea, only to help you see potential flaws in it.
So please, take it easy. Refrian from calling people liars, and all will be well. Try speaking to Tremulous on wednesdays pvp event. Hes a lev 50 bubble defender with a lot of experience, and i'm sure he'll give you a heads up.
Oh I can see problems with it - I can even think of a few teams that could counter it. I just doubt we would come up against any of them.
But the arguement that it would take too much coordination, I believe, is false. So one or 2 people miss their target. That leaves 8 against those 2 until the detention field wears off. Good odds I think.
The problem I have with what Sgt_Furnace said is that he said it lasts 10 seconds in the arena. If you don't know Sgt....then don't guess and then spout rubbish based on an incorrect assumption - maybe then you'll be taken seriously.
Does one see why I came to that conclusion?
Also in post 413811 - you said that your theroy disapproves my theroy. I think you meant to say disproves.
Now, 2 things wrong with that.
1. One theory cannot disprove another - because they are both theories.
2. If a theory is proved, then its not a theory. You have not proved anything because you have not tested it. So how can you not testing your theory disprove another theroy that has not been tested?
This proves my theory that your logic and thinking is flawed. Its moments of 'genius' like this from you that prove you can bring nothing whatsoever to this discussion.
@Sweet Chilli
[ QUOTE ]
1. One theory cannot disprove another - because they are both theories.
2. If a theory is proved, then its not a theory. You have not proved anything because you have not tested it. So how can you not testing your theory disprove another theroy that has not been tested?
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I'm guessing you failed scientific methodology in school - "theories" cannot be proven, only disproved (with ref. to your point 2). As such, theories can be disproved by other theories (with ref. to your point 1), and those theories my in turn be disproved by yet further theories. Facts can be proven/disproven, however, which is where you're wrapping yourself up in knots.
As far as your theory goes, I think you have a point in so much as keeping the opposition phased would be a scarily powerful weapon in addition to PFF being a solid defence - but I wouldn't use purely Defenders, I'd use a mixture of FF Defenders and Grav/FF controllers (for Dimension Shift and control, also leading to containment damage). If the team knew each other well enough, and were in close contact using TS, it would be possible, but suffer from the problem that besets squishies - if you miss your 'shifting of a BS/Regen then you risk giving away an easy kill (2-3 shots?), which doesn't work out too well in the restrictions of an arena game.
However, the main problem and what I believe to be the main cause of resistance to your theory in this thread is quite simple - I don't think anyone here wants to "win" at the expense of having a varied, enjoyable gaming experience. Sure, we could all run out and PL us up an uber-team of PvP doom and then finally wave our e-penii over the heads of Defiant and Vigilance... but where's the fun in that? It wouldn't improve us as PvPers, it wouldn't improve our understanding of PvP tactics, it'd be an extraordinarily dull and unimpressive "I win!" button - which is fine if you have such cripplingly low self-esteem that you can only engage in PvP if the odds are stacked heavily in your favour, but for the rest of us, that's not so fine. If we can't win using normal tactics and "balanced" odds with the tools available to us, then we don't win - but we can still have fun in the process, we can learn, and we can improve, and it'll be all the more impressive when we achieve victory through our own efforts as opposed to an artificial and ultimately hollow method.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
Bob, I personally liked your idea.
But its a 16 man team. I dont think there is 16 bubble defenders on union ?
Due to the rules already created we are only aloud a max of 4 of the same AT.
I think it is worth a try tho if we could find 8 bubbler, controller or defender. So Any Bubblers out there wanna give it a try ?
And then maybe we can find the team that can take them down. at the end of the day PvP is all about fun and people wanting to have the best team. There is always gonna be unique out of the box thinking like this. The Bubble Team will either work and work well or loose and loose badly.
Bob you know any other Bubblers ?
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The problem I have with what Sgt_Furnace said is that he said it lasts 10 seconds in the arena. If you don't know Sgt....then don't guess and then spout rubbish based on an incorrect assumption - maybe then you'll be taken seriously.
Does one see why I came to that conclusion?
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Incorrect assumption? I made the assumption based on many PvP threads on the US boards. It was a informed assumption, however, you are welcome to provide evidence to show that you can perm phase someone by doing so to me. If you do, I accept you are right and I am wrong. Contact me tonight on @Sgt. when you want to prove it.
US Thread 1
Says Detention Field lasts for 17 seconds
US Thread 2
Says Detention Field lasts for 15 seconds
Sarge
[ QUOTE ]
However, the main problem and what I believe to be the main cause of resistance to your theory in this thread is quite simple - I don't think anyone here wants to "win" at the expense of having a varied, enjoyable gaming experience.
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Nope, I just think it's a [censored] idea. I also tried to say that in a polite way a few times.
Please, someone get 8 bubblers together and pratice at this. I'll make a random team of 8 to fight it, no-one specifically hand picked for their build, just my regular PvP buddies and we'll see how it fares.
I'd love to be proved wrong (for once!! 
)
Jupiter is slow looking into his notebook, but he always looks.
The [b]Retribution[/b] is coming.
[url="http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/Valens_ii/"]Some of my toons[/url]
I agree...it is boring and if done correctly, would not lead to a very fulfilling PvP experience.
However, possibly a watered down version of it could be applied and shouldn't we consider all possiblities for fear that they might be used against us and we can prepare for those eventualities.?
Am I the only one that has actually read Sun Tzu's book?
Right Sgt....I will contact youand prove to you in the arena if that is what you need.
@Sweet Chilli
@Synaesthetix....ok...you want to go back and pick apart what he said as well please? He was the one that started with the therories thing...not me.
@Sweet Chilli
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Right Sgt....I will contact youand prove to you in the arena if that is what you need.
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Yup. I'm online right now.
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it is boring
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There i believe is the key. As KS and yourself have said, it does have the potential to work. Like alot of team combinations. But the thing is, PvP should be about fun first, winning second, in my honest and humble view. If union is going to come up with an out-of-the-box concept it should optimise fun AND strategy. Again just IMHO 
[ QUOTE ]
US Thread 1
Says Detention Field lasts for 17 seconds
US Thread 2
Says Detention Field lasts for 15 seconds
[/ QUOTE ]
Sgt., those are the figures for 'troller DF - which has been reduced down to 15 secs. Defender DF is still on a longer duration.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
I thought the defender duration is less than that off a controller? I swear I read that somewhere :s Think I'm seeing things now.
Is the defender duration WAI or bugged?
Sarge
[ QUOTE ]
I thought the defender duration is less than that off a controller? I swear I read that somewhere :s Think I'm seeing things now.
[/ QUOTE ]
In most instances, "control" effects work longer for 'trollers than they do defenders (although this system is being reviewed).
[ QUOTE ]
Is the defender duration WAI or bugged?
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Pass - following the standard logic, it should work better for 'trollers, but there's a train of thought that says foe intangibility might be classed differently - or that primaries should be more effective than secondaries. What I do know is that an FF Defender can keep a single foe perma-intangible - as one of my SG-mates was doing it to my Brute in Sirens just last week. 
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
Well my opinion is that this 'theory' is impractical, and flawed.
Anyhoo I totally forgot about the thing on test server this week (again), how'd it go?
World of Jackcraft.
Union AllStars had a few matches against Lu and LNM, lost alot. 4 members of AoW teamed with 4 from AllStars and won (last match against a few French staying up late).
Force field is a defender primary so all effects/powers last longer or offer more protection compared to the controller version, same with radiation, kinetics, empathy e.t.c.
The controller version of detention field was (pre the ED issue, I cant recall the number) perm-able, infact it was used in an S4 battle by the fusion stalking allstars to remove a blaster and a SR scrapper alternately from a fight.
So if the defender version is still on the old time scale it is/was perm-able, but to restate a few things
1. There is a maximum number of each AT (otherwise for example, wed just stick 8 blaster with novas an tp in, tp em into a group at the same time and all nova at once) we are aloud per team so the plan falls down in that respect.
2. It is again supposed to be fun, and as has been mentioned this is quite a boring, almost dirty, tactic so the plan again falls down there.
3. Outside the box thinking is to be encouraged, in this respect the plan succeeds, it has been bought up a few times before in this guise or a few others.
So keep em coming and everyone and lets see if we cant get one that fits all three categories.
Hey - nice blaster idea....
How about 2 blasters doing that, 2 FF def's perma-phaing. Thats 4 anyways....anyone got a suggestion for the other 4?
@Sweet Chilli
2 bubblers could be useful but to get the "perma phase" they would have to be defenders, which means if you want a, for example, kin or empath on the team it would have to be a controller, and as such not as effective in either role as they cant control cause theyre buffing/healing or cant heal/buff cause they are controlling.
and all AT team of matching skills is a nice idea, but what people are saying here is that with any build it has its flaws that other AT's can take advantage of. - there is no Key set that can take on everything all at once, else we would all have one? and what would be the point in that.
While a good 8 man bubbler team would be good, but you are still weak in other areas. all it takes is another expereinced PVP team to realise this. - Oh and anther thing, I guess in PVP with 8 bubblers, you would use repel.. well afaik the range of Your phase power is less than the repel effect.. so in order to phase them you need to loose a lot of your defences. (Not 100% sure on this but I remember testing this before with somone)
By reading your posts, I dont mean to sound harsh, but sounds like you need to read the manual again to find out what builds are compatible with what, and what certain builds fear the most before trying to lay the law down on your own creation.