thats generally called being a scoiopath, and generally they are not very plesant people, so Evil? not strictly speaking, but selfish and dangerous? yes, very.
p.s. for me for some one to be evil they have to be sane, and do that thing anyway becuase they think it was the rightthing to do, it this was your intent in the first post, then he is evil yes.
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Ok I admit that I see no issue with playing a "hero" type character in CoV, as such a character can in my eyes be played in COV without having to ignore game plot, or forcing a different interpretation of the game on other players and thus somehow ruining their game.
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For plot reasons, as an NPC, I see no reason why you cannot make a hero. However, as a standard PC? No, heroes have nothing to do with CoV, jut as villains have nothing to do with CoH, apart from being an NPC in someone's plot. Or, unless they totally turn around to become either a hero in CoH, or a full blown villain in CoV.
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What I want to know is why is there such a bad reaction to characters like this?
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For the simple fact that the game is not built for that. It is City of Villains, not City of maybe-not-so-bad-baddies/fallen goodies. Sorry, but this isn't grey, it's black, or white, the way I see it.
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I have a character who fits into the possilbe "anti-hero" or "fallen-hero" concepts,a character who was once a hero but ended up commiting some pretty major crimes (murder,assault,murder) and was locked up in the zig...
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Sorry, but this makes him what, exactly? A villain in my book.
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This char views himself as a hero, his goals are the same but his methods have changed, and he firmly beleives that he is above normal laws and morals hence why he can do what ever he wants..
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I take that back; a psychopath villain.
Sorry mate but all you've done is point out that your character is in fact a villain, not an anti-hero. :-)
Okay, two points.
First, anti-heroes aren't the same as 'fallen heroes'. Wordmaker has created a character for CoV, and we were discussing it over the weekend. He hadn't decided on the backstory completely, and I was pushing him toward certain choices to make his character fit better into the mold. I pushed him toward 'fallen hero' rather than anti-hero.
A fallen hero is there because he's gone bad, or made a mistake. He's probably in prison, he's a criminal, in the eyes of the law if not his own. He has a good, solid reason for being in the Rogue Isles. Quite a few of the 'evil villains' in CoV probably don't see themselves as evil, it's kind of like all those people in prison who swear they didn't murder whoever (despite being caught red-handed).
Anti-heroes don't actually fit in either game, sorry to say. (I do mean sorry. I really wish anti-heroes fitted into CoH, but really they don't. The entire contact structure is based on the idea that you're basically a deputised police officer. Few of these people would actually talk to a rogue.) That said, they fit better into CoH than CoV. In CoV you will, rapidly be following story arcs where you spend your time defeating Longbow and Wyvern attempts to infiltrate the Rogue Isles, you will be working for contacts who tend to follow the more classical view of evil. The outcome of your actions does nothing to destabilise Arachnos or any other criminal group.
On this basis, you would have to treat levelling as totally different from roleplay. I don't really have an issue with that, and you could probably fudge missions for RP purposes if you wished. And as long as you didn't RP with other characters of a more normal persuasion, then there's nothing really to stop you.
If you do roleplay with other people though, you run into a basic problem: you're asking people to accept that (when they discover they have a hero in their midst) they can do more or less nothing about it. When that happens around GG, people scream 'God-mode'.
The second point is 'why bother?' You are going to have to take the entire levelling process as OOC. The missions do not fit the profile of someone doing good by bad means. You can't roleplay with others unless it's totally within a like-minded SG (in which case, go ahead, just don't take it outside the group).
So, basically, you've created a game toon and you've created a backstory which says they have nothing to do with the environment they exits in. I honestly don't see the point. When I created War Crow, I'd have liked him to be a Stalker, that was the character design concept, stealthy and deadly. Best I could do was a Scrapper with Stealth. However, I do not feel a desire to create War Crow as a Stalker in CoV, because then he wouldn't be a hero, he'd be a villain and I'd be constantly assassinating people that Crow wouldn't kill. Then I'd be ignoring that so I could make believe I'm playing a hero. Doesn't make sense to me.
To put it simply: why buy and play a game when you actually want to be playing a totally different game?
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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This char views himself as a hero, his goals are the same but his methods have changed, and he firmly beleives that he is above normal laws and morals hence why he can do what ever he wants..
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Sorry mate but all you've done is point out that your character is in fact a villain, not an anti-hero. :-)
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Actually, the text as written above fairly accurately describes Nevermore, who is a hero. Though in the eyes of the law he's a criminal, an unlicensed vigilante. However, Nevermore is a CoH character, not a CoV character. As I said, 'anti-heroes' fit better into CoH (where they can, at least, be heroic), but they don't really fit into either game.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
I actually mentioned that in combination to the character the OP discribed, which is more a fallen hero rather then an anti hero. :-)
as i recall though Nevermore has never killed anyone, which the op has mentioned as part of the reson his Char was in the Zig.
The op's hero does seem to be a full on scioipath, if not a true psycopath, with out a concience entirely.
Actually, Nevermore killed two kids, of about 10 years old, in the Orbis plot. 
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Actually, Nevermore killed two kids, of about 10 years old, in the Orbis plot.
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Doesn't count, that was either accidental, or engineered by Orbis to give Nevermore a hard time.
As for him not killing anyone, no, but he still operates because the cops can't catch him, or don't try. If he became too much of a problem for some reason (as happens in the plotlines of most anti-hero comics) heroes would be dispatched to take Nevermore down. Generally, the plot would run to the truth (that it was all a villainous plot) being discovered by the heroes before they had to take him down.
Put Nevermore in the Rogue Isles and every villain in the neighbourhood would be after him within the week.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
ahh, well thats limited knowledge for you, i might have to conceed to Birdy on this then. 
Raven has already said it far better than I can, heh.
CoX is - with a few rare incidences - black and white. Heroes save people, and arrest the bad guys. Villains stab each other in the back to gain more control and power, and kill - actual killing, outlined by one more than one contact - anyone who gets in the way.
You have to make too many compromises, too many alterations, just to fit the concept in, and even then it would be far from perfect or - worst case scenario - even convincing. One quote I found in-game sums it up quite nicely (para-phrased):
"Yes, I said Hero. Not vigilante. She is good, we are the evil ones. Some people use their abilities to help one another; make them prosper. Others use their power to take what is theirs and thin out the weak. I'd much prefer to be the latter."
This isn't to say all missions in CoV are cackling maniacs slaughtering everyone (Indeed, there's quite a few missions which tread a thin moral line), nor are all CoH missions selfless and completely pure. What I am saying, however, is that these are exceptions; not something you can build an entire character around.
It's a shame, but that's the nature of MMORPGs. I can't ever see them being as deep or non-linear as pen and paper.
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For the simple fact that the game is not built for that. It is City of Villains, not City of maybe-not-so-bad-baddies/fallen goodies. Sorry, but this isn't grey, it's black, or white, the way I see it.
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Well, strictly speaking, the game isn't built for roleplaying at all. Both game mechanics and aspects of the CoH world are ill suited to roleplaying -- it's difficult to get IC suspense when all the characters are effectively immortal, for instance; and how do you explain ICly that, not even five minutes after you've exited a building where you just defeated and arrested FrostFire, the team goes back in the very same door to ... defeat and arrest FrostFire. Why do the villains patiently wait in their base while the heroes are teleported to the hospital, stocks up on inspirations and jogs back to finish the job?
ICly, I completly ignore the details of the missions my contacts send me on and often the detail of the contacts themselves, for the simple reason that every other character has run through the very same missions. They've rescued the same people from the same villains, they've clicked on the same glowies, stopped the same summonings and so on.
With that in mind, I don't think there actually is much of a difference betwene roleplaying a hero in CoH and roleplaying an anti-hero. You just have to make a slightly larger "leap of abstraction" between the in-game and in-character realities for the anti-hero than for the hero.
That said, anti-heroes (and to a lesser degree fallen heroes) are very often poor choices for roleplay because they don't play well with others. While the characters can be very interesting and fun in themselves, and well suited for other types of fiction, it can be difficult to generate good roleplay with them. It's a shade of CEHAS: "Chaothic Evil Halfling Assassin Syndrome."
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You just have to make a slightly larger "leap of abstraction" between the in-game and in-character realities for the anti-hero than for the hero.
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And an even larger one, to the point of ignoring the levelling process entirely, for an anti-hero in CoV (which is what the OP is actually referring to, not anti-heroes in CoH). At which point, what's the point in creating the character.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
My character on CoV, Noctem, is what I'd class as a "fallen hero." He made mistakes, got caught, and is now stuck in the Rogue Isles trying to get by. This means carrying out illegals acts. So, he has a reason to take bounties, steal things, etc. Doesn't mean he wouldn't say, stop a young girl being attacked in the street, however. He's a villain, yes, but he has a chance at redemption. Yes, I'm hoping a system to transfer characters comes up before he gets to a level where I can't justify his further advancement (ie: when the missions simply HAVE TO involve working for Arachnos etc), or I'll have to take a different route with his development.
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CoX is - with a few rare incidences - black and white. Heroes save people, and arrest the bad guys. Villains stab each other in the back to gain more control and power, and kill - actual killing, outlined by one more than one contact - anyone who gets in the way.
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I'd have to disagree with that. On the surface, as in most of the comics that inspired it, CoX is 'black and white'. However, you don't have to scratch very deep to find a lot more ambiguity in many of the plots and arcs.
As such, I don't think all villain characters have to simply 'evil'. The classic example for me is Magneto. He is a man who truly and deeply cares about the fate of his people - he just doesn't happen to include 'mundane' humans in that category. I see no reason why a Magneto-type villain character couldn't work perfectly well within the in-game story and structure of CoV.
In fact, it could be argued that Lord Recluse himself fits that model - or at least did in the early stages of his career (he is/was a Technocrat, believing that science was the saviour of mankind, and that if the governments of the world wouldn't accept this, then he would create a new world order).
On the opposite side is someone like Manticore, who has secretly created and funded Wyvern, out of frustration with the 'goody-goody' ideals of the Freedom Phalanx.
Personally, I think there is room in CoX for both four-colour 'good vs evil' and more ambiguous 'shades of grey' style roleplay. Of course, the latter is harder to do, but then it's innately more complex by its very nature.
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It's a shame, but that's the nature of MMORPGs. I can't ever see them being as deep or non-linear as pen and paper.
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On the other hand, I have to agree here. A game moderated by a computer program will never be able to offer the flexibility and scope of one moderated by a human referee. Well, not any time soon, anyway. 
Sorry, Bridge, I should have elaborated a little.
What I was talking about specifically are the actions available to players; it's often very clear-cut as to what the moral and ethical implications are with a Villain's actions, be it murder, extortion or some other "evil" act. There are shades of grey, of course - within a few of the missions I mean - but I just don't feel there are enough to make a satisfactory or well "written" Villain PC.
Some people might change the outcome of missions to suit their character, but then that brings a problem already talked about; namely ignoring the world just so you can play something which the setting isn't built for. If you're going to pretend that the target NPC is alive and well, when the mission giver clearly states otherwise, or will just say "oh, I warned Longbow that my disguise means destroying their base so they cleared up" it goes beyond suspension of disbelief and into the realms of very weak plot. Yes, there is the issue of Frostfire always being there - or Ballista 1 forever laying siege to the Skyraider's base - but these are inherent weaknesses you're going to have no matter the MMORPG; further complicating them and adding non-loreful branches ("OMG! Clones!") just muddies it even further, as not only do you have to deal with the limited game mechanics, but about three billion conflicting IC experiences.
This is why I don't think "Heroes" in CoV, or Villains in CoH, work in the slightest; if you just twist and shape everything to suit you - not the world - what's the point of playing in that world to begin with? We're players after all, not the Storytellers, when it comes to following story arcs and so forth.
In player stories - when you're not leaning on pre-fabricated NPCs in the game - I don't mind if people have certain outcomes for things and change accordingly. It's just the aformentioned "oh, he really just escaped, I never killed him despite Arachnos having his body, blood and surviving family members" stuff I dislike.
Finally, people often cite anti-heroes such as the Punisher to defend Heroes/Villains outside of their respective game; but what these same people often forget is that people such as the Punisher wouldn't be responsible for a great deal of the stuff you do in CoX.
The Punisher's an anti-hero, true, but he'd never unleash poisons and toxins on the civilian populace after murdering a Heroine as she slept.
If that doesn't make any sense, and I doubt it will at this hour of the night, just tell me and I'll try to explain whatever it is you didn't get.
That'll teach me to try to read a thread too quickly.
Re: Nevermore and the Orbis children. Nevermore was not directly responsible for their deaths, and did indeed learn that Orbis had orchestrated their deaths in order to try to break him and distract him. They failed, as it happens
A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that any kind of heroic figure would not last ten minutes in the Rogue Isles. Now, this is not an attempt to argue for playing a Hero in CoV, merely a wish to discuss what I'm interpreting from what's been said.
Do people think that a hero operating in the Rogue Isles has less of a chance of survival than a villain in Paragon City? If so, why? Paragon City is a fairly ordered society run by an organised government, with a police force and corps of heroes working to serve and protect it. The Rogue Isles are in a state of near open gang war thanks to Recluse keeping the various factions fighting amongst themselves, where the police are as bad as the criminals they arrest. By simple logic, it should actually be easier to hide and lay low in the Rogue Isles, especially since the towns and buildings are far older than Paragon, with less up-to-date town plans and maps than in a city which has essentially been rebuilt recently. And anyone with the cash to spare can probably pay off the RIP to look the other way and not go squeeling.
In fiction, there exist plenty of cases where a hero has operated without being found in a corrupt society, such as Batman in Dark Knight Strikes Again, and in the No Man's Land series. Not to mention the fact that Longbow can operate on the Rogue Isles themselves, often mere yards from Arachnos troops. And this is without mentioning historical resistance movements, such as in France during Nazi occupation in World War II.
I get the impression a lot of people believe that "Evil" is more efficient in terms of rooting out troublemakers than "Good" is. Just because those who cause problems in Paragon are sent to jail instead of killed, doesn't mean that you have to assume that the forces of Arachnos are any better at finding and removing threats than the heroes and police of Paragon are. In fact, with their infighting, you could argue that they would be worse at it, and that a resistance movement, starting small, carving out patches of turf to protect from certain gangs, simply protecting the ordinary citizens of the Rogue Isles, making sure they get enough food, aren't the victims of gang attacks, etc., if done right, would come across as simply another gang trying to eke out an existence. As the group gains the trust and respect of the citizens, and the fear of the gangs, they could slowly rise to a point where they could either wage a guerilla war against Arachnos, possibly coming to the attention of Longbow or Wyvern, who would then offer aid of their own.
Now, this can't posibly happen in-game, of course, because we can't change the game world. I'm just presenting a possible scenario where a resistance movement could be feasible. Villains are not all-knowing.
On the subject of changing the details of missions, I do this all the time on my CoH characters. As I said in the other thread, I believe there's a story arc where you kill the villain at the end, and another where you blow up a cloning lab, including everyone in it. There's no way Nevermore would kill a helpless villain, and he would most definitely not kill dozens of lab workers just because they happened to work for Crey. Now, this is a very small-scale change, as far as I'm concerned, but there's no way I'm going to sacrifice the integrity of my character concept just because some mission text says so. And I honestly do not see what the problem is there.
The only way to truly play "with the setting," adhering to all that you see in the mission text, is to play the game solo, never repeating a single mission. And that, for me, is a lot more pointless than changing a few small details so that you and your friends can enjoy the game more.
Max is an anti-hero. I wouldn't go as far as putting the 'hero' bit in. He's the shady, aggressive Federal agent type. He's not doing these tasks to help people, he's doing it because it's part of his job.
I will freely admit to god-modding WHEN SOLOING with Max, the character I have created is someone with extreme flip-side morals. The 'good' are just that, and are to be protected, regardless of whether Max personally likes them or not.
As for the 'bad', well, in Max's eyes, they've committed the crime, and being almost-above-the-law (*please* note "almost"), administers his own concept of justice, which is usually bouts of extreme violence, and on some occasions, going as far as killing a villain if the need arises. Max doesn't have a hero license to worry about losing, he's 'regular' law enforcement.
I will play to this style when I'm on my own. If teaming, I have Max 'restrain' himself, due to there being 'civilians' around. Restraining Max also means I only defeat enemies, not seriously hurt/kill them, meaning the other player's game mechanics of enemies being whisked to the Zig is not broken.
I see no problem with this style of gameplay. When I'm god-modding, it's on my own, nobody need worry about it. When I play Max, I change a few things to suit him, so sue me. When I play other heroes who are more 'good' than him, I play by the rules.
To top it all off, Role-playing an anti hero doesn't break other RP events either. I attend the Galaxy Girl meetings almost every night. The heroes there tolerate my presence, despite knowing who and what I am, the same with Nevermore (to a lesser degree of course) I presume, because, even though my methods are less moral than theirs, I'm still on the same side as them.
Just because we're different to the others, doesn't mean we're wrong.
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As the group gains the trust and respect of the citizens, and the fear of the gangs, they could slowly rise to a point where they could either wage a guerilla war against Arachnos, possibly coming to the attention of Longbow or Wyvern, who would then offer aid of their own.
Now, this can't posibly happen in-game, of course, because we can't change the game world.
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And that's exactly why it's a bad idea to do it. Lord Recluse might find them amusing, even useful to 'test' his people, but other players' characters would be inclined to want to kill these interlopers (which is what they do with Longbow and Wyvern afterall).
So, group roleplay with these characters becomes one of two things:
Never go near another group.
or...
Fudge and god-modding are the order of the day until, fundamentally, the situation will resolve itself as no one will RP with the group anymore.
The only other alternative is that you become a very good RPer and retire your character when someone kills it, which shouldn't take long.
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A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that any kind of heroic figure would not last ten minutes in the Rogue Isles
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I wouldn't, I had Jason running around the place for a couple of weeks. Then again, he kept his nose clean, didn't go around beating up the natives and he knows how to act like a villain (having had periods in history where he made Recluse look like an amateur).
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Not to mention the fact that Longbow can operate on the Rogue Isles themselves, often mere yards from Arachnos troops.
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I'm afraid that just demonstrates bad game design and standard MMO problems. Longbow 'can operate' because their agents simply respawn after they've been offed by the natives. It's exactly the same problem as the Hellions having an inexhaustible supply of recruits to beat people up on Paragon City street corners.
It makes no sense at all, but the game wouldn't work if it didn't happen.
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And that, for me, is a lot more pointless than changing a few small details so that you and your friends can enjoy the game more.
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Playing a hero in CoV doesn't mean changing a few small details. You would have to totally rewrite every single mission you did, change the nature of pretty much all the contacts, everything.
To be honest, Nevermore doesn't work in CoH without changing huge amounts of detail regarding the contacts either, but the layer of fudge doesn't need to be nearly as thick as that needed to make the CoV setting work with an anti-hero.
No one seems to have answered one point I think I made earlier:
What, exactly, is the reason for doing this?
If your answer is simply "because I want to play a hero fighting against Arachnos" then, cool, but there's no point trying to justify it or roleplay it against the levelling game. It just doesn't work.
If your answer is "playing a villain doesn't appeal to me" then why are you bothering to create a CoV character? I have one villain character. She's plot. She doesn't need to exist, but since I own CoV I might as well play it, but I'm going to play a villain because that's what the game is about.
PS. I realise we aren't going to agree about this. It's just an interesting debate.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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CoX is - with a few rare incidences - black and white. Heroes save people, and arrest the bad guys. Villains stab each other in the back to gain more control and power, and kill - actual killing, outlined by one more than one contact - anyone who gets in the way.
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I have to disagree to the 'with a few rare incidences'. In my experience (due to the arcs my character has followed so this might not be global), most villain plots actually end up being very heroic at the end of the day.
Seer Marino's story arc: You are helping to save someones life (and someone elses unlife) and stop a conspiracy
Scrapyarders wife arc: You are saving Scrappys wife from capture on the captains behalf (granted, you were told you would be kidnapping her but in the end you do a good deed).
Plus many other arcs and independent missions that at the end of the day have good results or end up as bad guy bashing...Overall I think the only truly evil stories I've done have been beating up the major heroes (BAB, Aurora etc.)
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I'd have to disagree with that. On the surface, as in most of the comics that inspired it, CoX is 'black and white'. However, you don't have to scratch very deep to find a lot more ambiguity in many of the plots and arcs.
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Really? I honestly can't think of very much depth to the plots in CoH and the contacts I've come across in CoV have been, to say the least, almost pure evil.
Could you maybe give a couple of examples? Anyone?
I'm also racking my brain for reference to these occaisions when you have to kill a victim or blow up everyone in a lab. For heaven's sake, we are expected to believe that we arrest Devouring Earth creatures! I know I certainly ignore that particular aspect of the game; War Crow uses them for fertiliser, it's why his roses are so... thorny. 
I'd also argue, and I think I have, that playing villains who think they aren't evil is not the same as playing a hero who uses methods not unlike a villain. Yes, your villain can be more or less evil, but a hero would not be doing half the stuff he's asked to do in CoV.
It's actually easier to fudge in CoH because there's more content, the arcs are less linear. In CoV with it's very linear storyline, you can't just skip the magic contact because your character doesn't 'do magic', or whatever.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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most villain plots actually end up being very heroic at the end of the day.
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Okay, only 14 levels in, but every time I've 'rescued' someone, it's been because I was ransoming them, or trying to get information from them. Just because the mission format is identical to a CoH mission format, doesn't mean the outcome is the same.
You quote two instances where the outcome isn't bad, I could give you several dozen from the first 14 levels where the outcoming isn't good at all.
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Overall I think the only truly evil stories I've done have been beating up the major heroes (BAB, Aurora etc.)
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You didn't mission for the contact who is a Voodoo priest and you're helping him gain more power through murder, blackmail, etc? The arc I've just finished is working for a guy who even the other villains say is pure evil. You haven't done newspaper missions to kidnap someone to protect your identity? You haven't taken out Longbow or Wyvern installations? (I know I have.)
The majority of missions in CoV have very little moral ambiguity. You're in it for the money. You're in it in some cases, for the glory of killing another human being. That's not good.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
I fully agree that playing an heroic group in CoV becomes a problem once other players are thrown into the mix. Because, porbably without even considering the option, will assume the hero group won't let their characters suffer any consequences for their actions which, if they get caught, they should.
Where I to run or play a tabletop campaign, a resistance group based in the Rogue Islands would be a lot of fun. However, it simply would not work if the group tried to interact with others, because sooner or later, someone's going to get annoyed, because someone on either side (not just the antiheroes) will be accused of godmoding.
If the group is just some friends who want to play the game their own way, that's fine.
Having played through the early missions, and seen admittedly little roleplay in CoV, I could easily see myself getting bored trying to play a "hero" in CoV. Playing a fallen hero, who doesn't see himself as evil, who may not go to the depths certain other villains will, and even stop someone being attacked if he thinks they're a helpless innocent, is fun. Noctem's not a good guy by any stretch. Nor is he a truly evil character. So far, he's gotten by on petty revenge, theft, and taking on other gangs. We'll see what the future has in store.
That said, yes I'd fudge details when playing on my own. Noctem is vindictive enough to free a hostage from the Mooks simply because he's had problems with them in the past. He won't ransom the person, but he'll do as much damage to the Mooks as he can. Unless it was a -really- big ransom
And yes, we're all probably like to not change our views on these things, but I agree it's a really interesting discussion.
The best example of a more 'heroic' story arc in CoV is Hardcase (30-35). Without spoiling the ins and outs of the individual plots and missions, he introduces himself as a demonhunter and needs help protecting the citizens of the Rogue Isles against the various demonic forces at work (thorns etc). It all felt vary 'dark hero', and similar to Blade in feel.
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I'd have to disagree with that. On the surface, as in most of the comics that inspired it, CoX is 'black and white'. However, you don't have to scratch very deep to find a lot more ambiguity in many of the plots and arcs.
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Really? I honestly can't think of very much depth to the plots in CoH and the contacts I've come across in CoV have been, to say the least, almost pure evil.
Could you maybe give a couple of examples? Anyone?
[/ QUOTE ] *Following text contains some spoilers*
Doc Vahz wants to offer mankind immortality.
Maestro is only trying to restore his hearing
Clockwork king is locked inside his own madness, ruling a court of his own creations.
Those three are all misunderstood, and while their actions can be perceived as 'wrong', their intentions are not 'evil'.
Then we of course have you stopping DE attacking companies that are either bad polluters, or extensively use animal testing, and of course we shouldn't forget you 'collecting samples' of the hydra men by beating them unconcious...
On CoV side, there are multiple contacts who would be, using D&D terms, rather classed chotic neutral or even chaotic good, rather than evil.
For Example, The pirate in sharkshead who has you saving scrapyard's wife, Dr. Percey in CaD who just wants to continue his experiements in the name of science (few others fit here as well, at least the doctor in the new starter contact set), carnie contact in St. M. Who just wants some chaos, Hard Case, who mostly has you saving St. Martial from demon attacks and multiple others I cant remember off the top of my head.
Ok I admit that I see no issue with playing a "hero" type character in CoV, as such a character can in my eyes be played in COV without having to ignore game plot, or forcing a different interpretation of the game on other players and thus somehow ruining their game.
But I will admit that I have no got a villain over lvl 20 so there is game content I have not seen, but from what I have seen and heard in COH, I cannot see anything that might preclude such characters from existing.
What I want to know is why is there such a bad reaction to characters like this?
I have a character who fits into the possilbe "anti-hero" or "fallen-hero" concepts,a character who was once a hero but ended up commiting some pretty major crimes (murder,assault,murder) and was locked up in the zig...
This char views himself as a hero, his goals are the same but his methods have changed, and he firmly beleives that he is above normal laws and morals hence why he can do what ever he wants..
Is that "bad"?