Arena Event: Bullets For My Valentine
By
Captain_Cathode,
Posted on: 2006-02-07 10:35 in Defiant (EU)
The implication being that Honourable United don't like Bridger but don't dislike him either?
Flithy neutrals
I'm there, but I have a few things that I'd like to suggest:
This time, could we please have travel powers ON? It shouldn't matter too much if your opponent runs from you, he won't won the match that way.
Could we also have limit stealth powers OFF? I don't use invis, but I'm not bothered if other people use it either. They aren't going to kill me by hiding.
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Could we also have limit stealth powers OFF? I don't use invis, but I'm not bothered if other people use it either. They aren't going to kill me by hiding.
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This time, could we please have travel powers ON? It shouldn't matter too much if your opponent runs from you, he won't won the match that way.
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The problem with allowing travel powers is that certain toons will have an unfair advantage over others.
Example 1: A blaster with fly vs a scrapper with SS 
We all know the blaster would win, and the scrapper would never be able to touch the blaster
Example 2: Scrapper with SS takes on a Tank with SJ. Again, the advantage goes to the first dude. If the scrapper finds his precious HP dwindling, he can just activate SS and peg it out of there. If he's regen aswell, he can switch on instant healing and by the time he lets the tanker catch up to him, he can be fully healed again.
Also, don't forget that this tournament is open to ALL levels. Say some poor pre-14s come along. They'll get absolutely thrashed by anyone with a travel power. I guarantee that if we allowed travel powers, they'd never have a CHANCE of winning a single match.
Incidentally, this is also why we at HU discourage the Kheldian AT from participating in our tourneys, as they have access to both fly and tp, and to my knowledge they're actually able to use these powers DESPITE the travel power restriction.
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Could we also have limit stealth powers OFF? I don't use invis, but I'm not bothered if other people use it either. They aren't going to kill me by hiding.
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Again, this could present an unfair advantage to certain types, which is why we turn this option on.
Think about this example: Illusion/* troller. Granted, Mr illusion troller will have access to his main powerset invises, but if we allow pool stealth powers, he will be able to activate his phase shift power, which prevents him from attacking or being attacked. Now say he uses his PA/Spectral Terror/Phantasm powers and then goes phase shifted. The guy he's facing will never even gett the CHANCE to hit him, yet he'll be taking damage from the trollers pets. That's the crux of the matter. I agree with Xanthus, I have no qualms with people using STEALTH powers, but in my eyes, the opponent should at least have a chance of winning, and someone who is perma or nearly perma phased has a huge advantage.
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To sum it up, we at HU want to make sure that EVERY entrant is in with a chance of winning, no matter what their AT or their power choices or their level. We're just trying to level the playing field here
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EDIT:
Also, Xanthus, you're quite right that the fleeing flee-er won't win the match that way, but don't forget, our tourney rules state that in the event of a draw BOTH participants advance. I personally had this work to my advantage:
Sally Storm (MA/Invul Scrapper) took on Captain Cathode (Rad/Elec) Defender. The match ended in a draw, and we both advanced to the next round, where it was Sally v Cathode v Raphael De Arca (Ill/Kin Troll). Raph and Cathode had to divide their attention between 2 opponents, it allowed me to pick them off one by one. The advantages of a draw means that the next round may let you take down an opponent you couldn't normally take down if he's trying to kill you AND someone else.
That's the thing, you see. If someone wants to push for a draw, then with travel powers/stealth, they can do that with very little risk. If someone wanted to push for a draw WITHOUT travel/stealth...well, that's a viable tactic, but there's suddenly much more risk involved, especially if your opponent is a ranged fighter.
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Example 1: A blaster with fly vs a scrapper with SS We all know the blaster would win, and the scrapper would never be able to touch the blaster
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You can buy Web Grenades, which are -fly, from the arena shop. Also, no blaster will kill a decent scrapper from range. You've gotta get into melee and whack 'em with your toggleknockers. There are also ways to exploit the map to force a flying blaster to come down to your level (such as moving under the trees in the perez park map etc etc).
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Example 2: Scrapper with SS takes on a Tank with SJ. Again, the advantage goes to the first dude. If the scrapper finds his precious HP dwindling, he can just activate SS and peg it out of there. If he's regen aswell, he can switch on instant healing and by the time he lets the tanker catch up to him, he can be fully healed again.
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The scrapper won't win by running away though. If he's regen, the tank won't kill him through IH anyway. If he's DA, he can't use Dark Regen without standing next to the tank. If he's SR, he has no self heal. If he's invul, then I suppose your point stands. He's still not getting any kills when he's running though.
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Also, don't forget that this tournament is open to ALL levels. Say some poor pre-14s come along. They'll get absolutely thrashed by anyone with a travel power. I guarantee that if we allowed travel powers, they'd never have a CHANCE of winning a single match.
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Wait, what? If I fought a pre-14 surely I'd be exemped to their level? You can't have travel powers before 14, so the playing field would be levelled (apart from the fact that all my attacks would be 6 slotted with SOs and his probably won't even have TOs in them).
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Incidentally, this is also why we at HU discourage the Kheldian AT from participating in our tourneys, as they have access to both fly and tp, and to my knowledge they're actually able to use these powers DESPITE the travel power restriction.
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This rule I agree with.
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Think about this example: Illusion/* troller. Granted, Mr illusion troller will have access to his main powerset invises, but if we allow pool stealth powers, he will be able to activate his phase shift power, which prevents him from attacking or being attacked. Now say he uses his PA/Spectral Terror/Phantasm powers and then goes phase shifted. The guy he's facing will never even gett the CHANCE to hit him, yet he'll be taking damage from the trollers pets. That's the crux of the matter. I agree with Xanthus, I have no qualms with people using STEALTH powers, but in my eyes, the opponent should at least have a chance of winning, and someone who is perma or nearly perma phased has a huge advantage.
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Phase Shift lasts for 30 seconds, and then has a recharge time of about 5 minutes on it. You can't use phase shift to win an arena fight like you could back in I4. Granted, in the 30 seconds where they're phased the pets can attack, but I seriously doubt anyone would die in that time.
i cant be bothered with my blaster's free respec from I5, i still have a I4 build
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i cant be bothered with my blaster's free respec from I5, i still have a I4 build
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And that means?They are asking who is willing to participate etc.Can you clarify what you mean with this post?
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Also, don't forget that this tournament is open to ALL levels. Say some poor pre-14s come along. They'll get absolutely thrashed by anyone with a travel power. I guarantee that if we allowed travel powers, they'd never have a CHANCE of winning a single match.
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Wait, what? If I fought a pre-14 surely I'd be exemped to their level? You can't have travel powers before 14, so the playing field would be levelled (apart from the fact that all my attacks would be 6 slotted with SOs and his probably won't even have TOs in them).
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GAH! 
I'll forget my own head next....sorry, my bad
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You can buy Web Grenades, which are -fly, from the arena shop. Also, no blaster will kill a decent scrapper from range. You've gotta get into melee and whack 'em with your toggleknockers. There are also ways to exploit the map to force a flying blaster to come down to your level (such as moving under the trees in the perez park map etc etc).
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The scrapper won't win by running away though. If he's regen, the tank won't kill him through IH anyway. If he's DA, he can't use Dark Regen without standing next to the tank. If he's SR, he has no self heal. If he's invul, then I suppose your point stands. He's still not getting any kills when he's running though
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I agree with both your replies to my examples, but i'm afraid the point still stands: Travel powers in the arena are open to exploitation, and the only way we can ensure that the playing field is truly level
To top that off, if we didn't limit travel powers, the Kheldians'd be clamouring in the streets, /em protest - ing
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Phase Shift lasts for 30 seconds, and then has a recharge time of about 5 minutes on it. You can't use phase shift to win an arena fight like you could back in I4. Granted, in the 30 seconds where they're phased the pets can attack, but I seriously doubt anyone would die in that time.
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Ah...thanks for clearing that up mate I didn't know the numbers for PS
However, again, point that the power is open to exploitation still stands During those 30 seconds the troller is able to COMPLETELY nullify any damage against him, while at the same time dishing out damage via his pets. I know that powers like MoG and Elude and Hibernate do much the same thing, but with MoG/Elude the opponent still retains a CHANCE to hit, and the "crashes" when the powers expire and the HUUUUUUGE recharge times mean that they're not really powers to be activated lightly, and with Hibernate the tank has NO ability whatsoever to do damage to his opponent. Compared to them, PS has very little for its user to whinge over.
I know, this only affects a minority of players, but the point is, it IS exploitable, and thus the point still stands
Still, the way that I survive on my troller is through movement (super speed and CJ). I use the map to my advantage to force flyers down to my level, and also to put myself out of LOS so that I can heal up etc etc.
My point stands as well though; you won't win an arena fight by running away.
I'm going to get shouted at by khelds for saying this, but they're [censored] in the arena. They don't have the DPS that a blaster does, or the protection of tanks/scrappers and they CERTAINLY don't have enough mez's to be able to complete with a controller.
thought i'd add my point of view to this.
Hi, i'm HU's perma-PvP loser, being a pure PvE build, and have taken part in 3 of HU's last 4 arena events.
i'm a scrapper and i use flight as a travel power. i have ranged attacks however, and while it would be stupidly slow to do so, i could hover outside of reach of others without ranged attacks and pick them off, something my semi crazy leeroy style wouldnt like anyway but its possible. limiting travel powers means you have to face down your opponant, rather than move away. as its been said you cannot win by running but you can make it damn hard for you to lose. while we all hate losing, in the arena and in a tournement its going to have to happen to someone. we cant all win the tourny after all :P the restrictions have been worked out over many many months and many arena events to try to allow for the fairest possible fight for everyone. SS wont save you if your opponant can land a knockdown attack on you, SJ wont do much for you in an enclosed map such as the boat map and so on. overall its been decided that it makes for a better fight all round for them to be removed.
as for stealth, a couple of yellow insps can help you see thru some of it, or focused accuracy from the body mastery epic pool, so it wont help that much, and as i've found out from some fights i've been in traps can still be set, ambushes can still happen and you just cant out-think another player every single time, unless your up against me, in which case its easy
for the most part these events have gone smoothly in the past, with little to no complaints from those involved. most people agree the limits placed are fair and the system cap uses is as well.
something else i have also learnt, PvE tactics just dont seem to work here.. i dont PvP much, in fact this is the only PvP i take part in so i dont have tactics for it myself, but if you rely on something in PvE it may not be as effective in PvP.. as my countless defeats will show 
also, bridger should come, it'd be fun to see how well we could do against someone who actually works for the company!
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Still, the way that I survive on my troller is through movement (super speed and CJ).
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And the way I survive on my troller is through illusion's stealth abilities, in fairness you would have won that fight we had a the other day but if your taking my stealth im taking your travel powers down with me 
hmmmm....we may have to have another HU v PD match could be interesting
Just to clarify there are going to be NO changes to the rules as stated in the Honourable United forums.
That means:
Limit Stealth ON
No Travel Powers ON
Duals at unequal power levels are fought at the weightband BELOW the lowest participant (IE if a lvl 34 takes on a lvl 50 they both fight at the lvl 31 max weightband)
We can debate the pros and cons of these rules until our hair turns blue and I still don't think we'd see eye to eye (for example an Ilusion/# Controller could use Phase Shift and then the Hyper Phase temp power from Warburg for a full minute of down time during which time as a defender he could squish me about 3 times in a row).
To be honest I'm expecting mainly PvE Builds to turn up so I could introduce a rule saying "All Paragon Defenders have to play with one hand tied behind their backs" and the PDs will still beat us. I've played against the PDs in the arena and it's a scary scary experience so I'm sure Xanthus will be able to hold his own even without his travel powers.
If I manage to get through the event without having a nervous breakdown AND decide to run another of these events Defiant wide THEN I will take any comments people have about the event on board (and then throw them over the side of the ship as soon as it leaves port)
Places in the tournament are limited to 32 I can just about cope with a straight single elimination tournament. No double eliminations/round robins/best of threes/blind draws or other fancy stuff here.
Sorry, I'm going to be annoying again:
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for example an Ilusion/# Controller could use Phase Shift and then the Hyper Phase temp power from Warburg for a full minute of down time during which time as a defender he could squish me about 3 times in a row).
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Except you can't use Hyper Phase in the arena. In fact, you can't use ANY temp powers apart from the ones bought at the arena store.
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I'm sure Xanthus will be able to hold his own even without his travel powers.
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If you talk to Sally Storm, she'll tell you the only thing keeping me alive in my match vs her was movement (which it was). I'll just come on a different toon, probably my scrapper, until the rules are changed.
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I enjoyed our little bouts last night, Xan they were good fun
True, your travel powers were VERY effective in keeping you alive, but dont forget that I had travel powers too then, and if we'd both been without, i'd never have caught up with you think about it. Your singularity slowed me down so much I HAD to have SS/SJ on in order to even catch you.
I wonder if Mr Bridger has perused the thread yet......
I have no strong feelings about Bridger one way or the other. (Neutral 4 life!)
Xan - I know that Sally is a much better PvP-er than me and that as shes a scrapper has a much better chance against a controller than me (defender). As I am a defender and you're a controller you're going to have a hard time persuading me to make life any easier for you.
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Xan - I know that Sally is a much better PvP-er than me and that as shes a scrapper has a much better chance against a controller than me (defender). As I am a defender and you're a controller you're going to have a hard time persuading me to make life any easier for you.
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Actually, I have a harder time against rad defenders than against any scrapper you care to throw at me.
I havent read the thread except the first post, I dont like the fact about no travel powers it overpowers the scrappers. People can buy arena temp power if they dont have enough inf Ill happily give it away. The temp powers give you all the travelpowers except ss. I dont have anything against switching off invis but then again I dont use invis.
But anyway if there is PvP then Im there.
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
As an illusionist I should point out the flaw with the phase shift thing. Although Spectral Terror could potentially hold you and Phantasm could potentially damage you, with one break free you could easily kill the Phantasm. Furthermore, a Phantom Army is not very PvP savvy, and as the damage pretty much all heals that situation would be fairly easy to overcome by a half-decent PvP player. Even with a 3-damage slotted PA and Phantasm that technique would be hard-pressed to work.
I'm there i also challenge all of HU, in seperate duels to fight my controller exemped to level 37, All matches rated, if you win you get 1mill inf
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I'm there i also challenge all of HU, in seperate duels to fight my controller exemped to level 37, All matches rated, if you win you get 1mill inf
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Can I fight you PN? Im looking for some quick inf since perma running in SG-mode is draining my funds.
A Paragon Defender
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I'm there i also challenge all of HU, in seperate duels to fight my controller exemped to level 37, All matches rated, if you win you get 1mill inf
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I'll have a go, Nova I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with Sally I know Xanthus was
If/when I get knocked out, and if/when you get knocked out, we'll have a duel
Hello Defiant!
Just to let you know that Honourable United is celibrating the true meaning of Valentines Day on Saturday 11th February at 2.30pm in the Galaxy City Arena. I'm in charge of the event and have organised 7 smaller tournaments for my SG so I have some clue about what I'm doing.
What is the true meaning of Valentines Day you ask?
Shooting someone you never met before in the face!
Honourable United will be doing a PvP arena tournament and pretty much everyone is invited, although spaces will be limited so the official Priority will be:
People in Honourable United
People Coalated with Honourable United
People that Honourable United like
Bridger
People that Honourable United have never met
People that Honourable United DON'T like
If you want to join in please let me know. This will be the first time that I've advertised the tournament on these forums so I've no idea of what responce I will get. So please bear with me on the actual day.
You can help this event run smoothly by.
1. Reading the Tournament Rules and understanding them
2. Having taken part in and hosted at least one match in the arena already, so that you are familliar with arena interface.
3. Keeping still and quiet - the organisation for this is soley done by me and a piece of paper so it takes a little while for me to tell everyone everything. Like I said bear with me.