People whining mostly.
Both are perfectly good sets.
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People whining mostly.
Both are perfectly good sets.
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My thought exactly, none of the sets have been more severly nerfed than any other set (referring to ED and Global Defense Changes).
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People whining mostly.
Both are perfectly good sets.
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Claws does low damage and the damage it does is widely resisted. SR still doesn't work: its never been too shabby in PvE, but its PvP its still a joke when you get to the higher zones. Whichever way you look at it, its nowhere near as good as /Regen and /Inv. Combine a weak primary with a weak secondary and voila: one weak scrapper.
Not everyone pointing out the obvious flaws in sets are whining.
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more severly nerfed than any other set (referring to ED and Global Defense Changes).
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Yes, SR wasn't affected too badly by the Global Defense nerf...
cause after ED SR had less surviveability than the rest of the secondary sets, and claws should (I dont know claws very well) lack damage compared to the rest of the sets. The cones/aoe isnt as good as spines, and the single target damage cant compare with the other sets. The build up power may be lacking also, thou Im not sure.
Its not the claws/sr isnt fine, maybe even good. Its just not as good as other powerchoices.
A Paragon Defender
oh, and SR is prolly the best set for PvP. You wont get the surviveability of regen, but you get some nifty tools, like
resistance to slow debuffs, added perception, good resistence at low health, protection against defence debuffs, more movememt speed, better recharge for attacks and BU, the best mezprotection and prolly a few more.
A Paragon Defender
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oh, and SR is prolly the best set for PvP.
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Its not other peoples toons can be very accurate and there is no personal way to put health back unless you get aid self. Whatever sr is, it has to be "the thinking persons scrapper". I have a claws super reflex scrapper, in pvp duels mostly everyone non-super reflex is a real challenge to actually kill and its a real challenge to stay alive for the length of time it takes to kill anything. In team pvp it has a chance to shine but people dont often play like npc's so that chance is nothing to write home about compared to spines, spines has nice secondary effects. Without scaleable defence levelling up can be a bit of a nightmare you may need that extra run speed to run away before you got faceplanted and once away take a moment to use rest to get the healthbar back up. My scrapper has beat my blaster to third debt badge by 4 lvls (blaster 3rd debt badge at 42). I'd be amazed if claws/super reflex isn't the most challenging scrapper combo to have, no i'd be completely shocked having not only played other types but against other types aswell. Once i7 kicks in then there will be balance defensively pve i am sure. In fact with my lvl 50 Katalina i imagine i may well be feeling most uber.
Despite all that i can imagine it being really great for a stalker, i just got katana on my stalker for something different.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Claws first couple attacks , except for slash , is long excute time .
While swipe is nice animation , strike is terrible to wait for mediocre damage to be delivered.
So even if you take 2 basic attack powers , you have either one long animation low damage , or one long animation mediocre damage.
While claw does make up in the end , the earlier levels are a pain , infact taking a powerpool fighting choice makes it more efficient as main attack.
SR cause of the nerfs , and then hot fix of adding resistance buffs when damaged to make it workable again says it all .
ITs not that the two powerset are bad , it needs a bit of tweaking and a lot of patience to get to the upper levels where the good stuff is .
I havn't had any problems with Claws dealing lethal damage so far... especially not with Focus available to me - that power is a gem 
.
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Claws first couple attacks , except for slash , is long excute time .
While swipe is nice animation , strike is terrible to wait for [...]
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Swipe, the first attack, and Slash, the third attack, have long execution times, yes.
Strike, the second attack, have a short execution time, yes.
You couldn't possibly have messed it up more 
.
Irs probably because Claws doesn't give you a tood to survive. Katana/SR has devine avalanch, DM/SR has Touch Of Fear (and Dark Consumption for the end woes) BS/SR has parry, MA/SR has some nice status effects. Spines/SR.......... I wouldn't fancy, nor Claw/SR. At the moment SR needs the benefit of a safe primary to survive, at least in my opinion
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Some good points raised there.
If there is a Primary powerset that can aid SR such as Parry from Broadsword/Divine Avalanche from Katana, etc. then the added defence bonus helps a great deal.
Unfortunately with Claws you don't have access to a defensive power like that, which makes you more likely to be hit in melee.
Although saying that, SR with Quickness combined with Claws will never let you down in attack chains. Also, Claws does not take up as much endurence as other powersets, where SR is enduerennce reliant, so both will compliment each other on that I think.
I still don't see how SR is nerfed, it's a perfectly good powerset IMO.
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Irs probably because Claws doesn't give you a tood to survive. Katana/SR has devine avalanch, DM/SR has Touch Of Fear (and Dark Consumption for the end woes) BS/SR has parry, MA/SR has some nice status effects. Spines/SR.......... I wouldn't fancy, nor Claw/SR. At the moment SR needs the benefit of a safe primary to survive, at least in my opinion
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Claws has a Knockback on Focus and Shockwave. -DEF on Slash. Plus a re-occuring Damage and Accuracy Buff as a part of the Attack Chain.
No tools, eh?
Regarding SR, people sure can whine. It's always been a somewhat risky set. But at one point SR was the solo AV Hunting set. A ton of vids showed up at the US Boards with SR Scrappers soling AVs like a breeze. This has gradually changed, think it was in I4 (or was it I3) there was a beef-up on enemies there SR had a bit more trouble (still could take on AVs though). All of this of course, were mostly about MA/SR Scrappers. Claws/SR still lurked about, but seeing how those MA/SR played Claws should have been able to do the same thing...
SR is probably the greatest proof in existance that Balance never is constant in this game. It's been swung back and forth. However, I don't think I really heard at any point that it's Broken Beyond Belief. I thought so once, but was proven wrong.
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Claws has a Knockback on Focus and Shockwave
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There are many people that fight on follow in order to stay on an opponent who dont like knockbacks, because that means they have to chase the opponent and find themselves running of the edge of something or maybe toward another group. The time to follow an opponent messes up attack chains and reduces killing speed. Tankers dont like having to reherd and alot of people out there prefer knockdown to knockback.
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-DEF on Slash. Plus a re-occuring Damage and Accuracy Buff as a part of the Attack Chain.
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Firstly you have to actually hit with the slash and follow up to gain anything out of them. No hit no gain. The amount of extra damage you gain from follow up is way less than build up, probably less than half that than build up and lasts 10 seconds. So every ten seconds you can have about 1/6 th extra damage added to your poorly damaging claws set providing you actually hit. Its quite boring really, to gain the most out of claws you may have to follow up - focus (possibly run towards what you knocked back) - strike -eviscerate - focus - follow up - focus - strike - eviscerate - focus. Shockwave is a great multihit but can be used at an inconvenient time that can mess up the multihit attacks of others so thats a selectively used power imo.
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Regarding SR, people sure can whine.
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Other sets have scaleable resists plus the ability to heal, atm there is no scaleable defence the higher the level you face the less defence you have. As for whining it was rightly so during certain issues. Since ED a super reflex is no longer hit by others in pvp for 6 slotted damage and people cant perma certain powers in their builds anymore for such great accuracy that they never ever miss.
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It's always been a somewhat risky set. But at one point SR was the solo AV Hunting set. A ton of vids showed up at the US Boards with SR Scrappers soling AVs like a breeze. This has gradually changed, think it was in I4 (or was it I3) there was a beef-up on enemies there SR had a bit more trouble (still could take on AVs though). All of this of course, were mostly about MA/SR Scrappers.
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It was i3, Elude was the granite armour of scrapper sets in a way, and it made up for the pain of levelling one up. Prior to elude if anything hit you, you took full damage and without a healer or respite you had nothing left to do but run away and rest. With a healer "maybe" you get healed as i remember it it was hit a couple of times, runaway, run back with health hit a couple of times - runaway... (Facing higher levels as most people do everything hit you). When i solo'd atta with my claws/super reflex killing all 350 it took twice as long as soloing atta with my katana regen due to downtime. Thats half the xp/time imo.
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SR is probably the greatest proof in existance that Balance never is constant in this game. It's been swung back and forth.
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As you say swung back and forth during issues and therefore in certain issues lack of balance has given super reflexes something to whine about and thats what sticks in peoples heads. People only really whine during an issue thats bad for them then the next issue rights the wrong. Since ED in PVP i have way less to complain about i would say that super reflex is still difficult to keep alive without outside power pools but nowhere near as much as it was before. PVE there are times where i appreciate being a super reflex and their are times i dont, some enemies are more of a threat than others at different levels. I have seen an old school firetank go down tanking old school stylee in i6 followed by the rest of the team but not me who clicked elude and cleaned up. When scaleable defence comes back they will reduce evasion to what it was and i will be backing away from the +anything warhulk once again before it explodes whilst others simply take the hit. Do i want to stand amongst exploding jaegers - not really.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
SHANNON, you're quickly becoming my favourite poster here.
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There are many people that fight on follow in order to stay on an opponent who dont like knockbacks, because that means they have to chase the opponent and find themselves running of the edge of something or maybe toward another group. The time to follow an opponent messes up attack chains and reduces killing speed. Tankers dont like having to reherd and alot of people out there prefer knockdown to knockback.
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This is universal, and not Set specific. Energy Blasters suffers from this as well, for instance.
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Firstly you have to actually hit with the slash and follow up to gain anything out of them. No hit no gain. The amount of extra damage you gain from follow up is way less than build up, probably less than half that than build up and lasts 10 seconds.
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Think it's a 50% Acc/Dam Buff. But not sure.
Otherwise, great points from a perspective of experience.
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Think it's a 50% Acc/Dam Buff. But not sure.
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follow up adds about 1/6th in damage to an attack thats like 17% rounded up. As for accuracy i am not sure, it could be the same. People can look to sherks herobuilder for figures if they want but i dont always find them anywhere close to correct.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Claws has a Knockback on Focus and Shockwave
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There are many people that fight on follow in order to stay on an opponent who dont like knockbacks, because that means they have to chase the opponent and find themselves running of the edge of something or maybe toward another group. The time to follow an opponent messes up attack chains and reduces killing speed. Tankers dont like having to reherd and alot of people out there prefer knockdown to knockback.
[...]
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The knockback on Focus (can't speak for Shockwave as I've yet to get it myself) is knockdown for even conning villains, so it's rarely an issue (unless of course you spend a lot of time fighting villains below your level).
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The knockback on Focus (can't speak for Shockwave as I've yet to get it myself) is knockdown for even conning villains, so it's rarely an issue (unless of course you spend a lot of time fighting villains below your level).
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Not strictly true afaik and i only play on invincible unless i am helping someone, its generally more of a knockdown on bosses and i think maybe it scales from knockback to knockdown depending on the level and type of enemy you hit. I will test this.
i just tested follow up on test server and had results of my attacks with/without follow up with no powers slotted then i will go test it live with my powers slotted but so far i had this against a thorncaster
no follow up
focus thorncaster for 77.97
eviscerate thorncaster for 80.82
follow up thorn caster for 38.03
focus thorn caster for 107.21 giving a 37.5% mark up
eviscerate thorn caster for 111.13 giving a 37.5% mark up
right now ill leave this post unfinished and go test live
eviscerate deathmage for 232.83
used follow up then..
eviscerate deathmage for 277.1 giving a 19% mark up
however this maybe due to the deathmage putting unknown to me toggles on adding resistance.
damn more testing! but one thing is for sure i think its wrong to look and expect an attack to offer the same effect against a certain level minion of an enemy type for example against any other type of enemy minion of same level.
ok more testing done
spectra series 1 lvl 50 minion - focus was a knockdown
spectra series 1 lvl 52 minion - still a knockdown obviously
deathmage lvl 48 boss - focus was a knockback
deathmage lvl 50 boss - focus was a knockdown
against spectra series 1 lvl 52
eviscerate 209.76
eviscerate after follow up 249.67 = 19% mark up
against death mage lvl 50
eviscerate 255.9
eviscerate after follow up 304.56 = 19% mark up
so concluding on test so far upto i6 follow up offers an increase in damage to an attack of 19%
on test server it was 37.5% (attacks unslotted) so far it looks to me like a fix to be happy about unless something scaleable is going on so then i deleted so's
lvl 50 possessed scientist
3 damage slots lvl52
focus pre follow up 201.58
focus post follow up 240.06 = 19% mark up
2 damage slots lvl 52
focus pre follow up 177.42
focus post follow up 215.19 = 21% mark up
1 damage slot lvl 52
focus pre follow up 140.17
focus post follow up 178.65 = 27% mark up
0 damage slot lvl 52
focus pre follow up 102.59
focus post follow up 141.07 = 36.5% mark up
ok it looks scaleable the more damage you have in your attacks the less effective follow up is
omg how devious can the devs be and omg how bored must i be doing that
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Focus is knockdown for even-levels and above but Shockwave is always knockback.
The vast majority the copyright violating heroes that I've seen have been claws/* and usually claws/regen.
Mostly with purest EULAium claws and an EULAium skeleton, and a healing factor.
When I first tried CoH at a friend's house, around I2 time, we logged into the tutorial. Literally within a minute, three or four Wolverine-clones ran past (followed by Captain Kirk, curiously enough)
I can't speak for the actual use of the powers ingame, though, but others already have.
SR used to be crap when Elude didn't allow you to attack, then it became uber when Elude was changed to allow you to attack and was perma-able, then became a fair powerset when Elude was nerfed, and then became somewhat sub-par following the global defence nerfs, counterset somewhat by the defence debuff resistance and increased resistance as HP drops - previously, going up against defence-debuffing foes usually always resulted in a swift and unglorious death, even with Elude on and purple pills munched. Following the next set of adjustments to defence, I'd tentatively suggest that SR is going to be about as balanced as it's ever been. SR has always been weaker against +level mobs than any of the other secondaries.
Claws on the other hand... poor unloved Claws... has always been the poor man of the scrapper secondaries. Low-damage, quick recharge, low-endurance - supposedly. In practice, because Lethal damage is resisted by greater numbers of mobs at higher levels, it's not quite so good on the endurance as it appears - needing more attacks to do the job, plus the extra misses that result from that increased number, plus the greater chance for the target to regen HP (especially in the case of bosses)... can be a little frustrating. The KD and KB in Focus and Shockwave is handy, but some bosses and most (all?) AVs resist these effects. Certain attack animations completely ruin the speed of SR too, although these are being "looked into" - as of about 3/4 issues ago. 
Claws/SR, then, leaves you with a build that has trouble against bosses and some Lieutenants of +1/+2 and above (depending on mob type), giving low-damage, and playing Russian Roulette when faced with massed groups - the damage output seldom matches the required damage needed until you start reliably and consistently stacking Follow Up. AVs can be a nightmare, Neuron used to be instant-death until defence-debuff resistance came into effect, and it took a team of 3 - one Empath, one SK'd Stone Tank, and my Claws/SR about 20 minutes solid attacking to take out Countess Crey... Claws/SR is far from being a solid damage dealer. 
That said, Claws/SR can be useful in a team, and makes a formidable duo with an Empath - in I4, my Claws/SR powered through missions against +4/5 mobs when paired with my gf's Empath. I've only played him loosely as of late (and since ED) and he no longer has the same level of ability, as you'd expect. He still works, but without more extensive play I'd hate to say how well. I'd rather play a Claws/SR than Claws/Dark, however.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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The vast majority the copyright violating heroes that I've seen have been claws/* and usually claws/regen.
Mostly with purest EULAium claws and an EULAium skeleton, and a healing factor.
When I first tried CoH at a friend's house, around I2 time, we logged into the tutorial. Literally within a minute, three or four Wolverine-clones ran past (followed by Captain Kirk, curiously enough)
I can't speak for the actual use of the powers ingame, though, but others already have.
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I named my Claws/Regen GenericHero29482 to do the GMs a favor .
(and no, 29482 is not a random number)
I can offer the following tale.
Zortel and Wordmaker used to have the odd duel in the arena with their toons. One was MA/SR, the other Claws/SR. The MA could totally cream the Claws, and the MA was about five levels lower.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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That said, Claws/SR can be useful in a team, and makes a formidable duo with an Empath
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that said any scrapper in i4 can make a formidable duo with an empath and some dark armour scrappers fail to slot for end properly as a rule a toggle has to be brought to about .24 eps if possible.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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[...] as a rule a toggle has to be brought to about .24 eps if possible.
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Eh? Since when, and when was the memo sent around? I sure didn't get one!
Just more curious than anything else; seems these two powersets are utterly despised when used in conjunction with one another.
Why is this? Post-ED weakness? They don't mesh well? A horrible reminder of the sheer amount of catgirl Heroes which polluted the American servers?
o_O