Father/Son Duo
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2009-07-23 11:29 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Paired Emp/Sonic defenders is a big hit lately...
Pretty much everything can work and everything can be a superpowerful duo. However, I think it is more about finding a duo that is fun for you two. I've got lots of experience doing crazy duos with people. I have two brothers that play and have played for a long time. I've also introduced several of my good friends to the game and one of them had virtually no gaming experience. If you don't mind I'd love to ask you lots and lots of questions and help you make a duo that is fun for you and your son. Fitting your personal styles is the most important thing 
Emp/Sonic and I'm sure all the other suggestions are really powerful and really fun to some people. However, they might not fit you.
How old is your son? Do you and/or your son prefer complicated to play characters or things that are more simple and direct? What duos have you tried and what did you dislike/like about them?
If you think talking more directly might be easier feel free to send me a tell in game /t @Smurphy, Hello -- or send me a PM here I'm more than happy to ask/answer questions on these boards.
A Scrapper/Defender duo is hard to beat. Although, a Scrapper/Blaster combo might work out well, too.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Paired Emp
[/ QUOTE ]Yep. While normally considered a buffer or support set, multiple Empath Defenders buffing each other can be a force to be reckoned with. They're good with 2, but the numbers really start to fly with 3 or 4 together.
When you get a bunch of Empaths together, you end up with something like Green Machine: Defenders with soft-capped Defense, Regen Scrapper-level Regeneration, near-Blaster Damage, crashless nukes, and limitless endurance.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I often play with my son, but he has altitis as bad as I do, so we often end up playing many different combinations.
Here's some that we play frequently. Overall, depending on your son's playstyle and skill, you might be better off with a support type, with him doing the damage dealing and you doing the enabling. It also helps to not have the same damage type. Currently, he prefers to have me play someone who can tank or control while he does the blasting.
Here's some combo's we've played: (Father, son)
Katana/Dark scrapper, Assault Rifle/Traps Blaster
Illusion/Kin controller, Fire/Fire blaster
Dark/Empathy Defender, Electric/Electric Blaster
Necro/Dark Mastermind, Stalker
Plus many others.
Generally, once we've gotten past the awkward early stages and the powers are fleshed out, we really tend to roll through the opponents.
Mr Energon
Confirmed altimaniac.
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Pretty much everything can work and everything can be a superpowerful duo. However, I think it is more about finding a duo that is fun for you two. I've got lots of experience doing crazy duos with people. I have two brothers that play and have played for a long time. I've also introduced several of my good friends to the game and one of them had virtually no gaming experience. If you don't mind I'd love to ask you lots and lots of questions and help you make a duo that is fun for you and your son. Fitting your personal styles is the most important thing
Emp/Sonic and I'm sure all the other suggestions are really powerful and really fun to some people. However, they might not fit you.
How old is your son? Do you and/or your son prefer complicated to play characters or things that are more simple and direct? What duos have you tried and what did you dislike/like about them?
If you think talking more directly might be easier feel free to send me a tell in game /t @Smurphy, Hello -- or send me a PM here I'm more than happy to ask/answer questions on these boards.
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Some more info for you. Here are the combos we have tried so far, along with why they were not enjoyable to us:
Dual Dark/Thugs MMs - MM almost seemed too easy mode for us, with very little interaction on our parts. It also seemed to kill a bit more slowly than we liked, even though we were never in any danger of course.
DM/WP Brute and Thug/Poison MM - better than the dual MMs, but still seemed a bit slow in the early going.
DM/WP Stalker and DM/Regen Stalker - definitely not slow by any stretch of the imagination, but I was concerned that we would have survivability issues on really tough fights.
Fire/Nrg Blaster and DM/Regen Scrapper - this was fun, but my son kept getting aggro with the blaster and we would end up waiting for his health to regen...I could have taken the taunt to alleviate this situation, but I actually wasn't very comfortable with my ability to take all the damage either.
Keep in mind that all of the issues we had with these combos could be just us not letting the ATs develop thru the early levels. I think the highest we went was to level 23 with the dual stalkers. We also both have altitis, so I think we will want to have multiple combos anyway.
On a side note, I want to mention how impressed I am already with this community. I have played about every mmorpg out there, and the forums are usually cluttered with people bad-mouthing everyone else. I have been trolling these forums for the past few weeks and seen almost none of that. I would have expected to see several responses to the effect of, "go play the classes yourself and figure it out on your own", but instead I come back to find someone asking for more information to better help me find the combo I would most likely enjoy. Kudos!
Altoholicism is the way to go I'm going to focus on combos that get powerful early. Emp/Sonic is crazy after you start filling out powers. But before level 12 it really doesn't have much of anything. Save Emp/Sonic for later
Two Dominators - anything that sounds cool to you guys. Dominators are "hold and touch". With two of you on Dominators you'll be able to control/hold every enemy you come across. Throw 'em in the air, hold them, immoblize them, confuse them, anything you can do to keep them from shooting you.
Melee + Buffer. I'm going to make gross generalizations here. I suggest for the meleer you take a weapon set. Weapon sets tend to have lots of big "smash" powers early. Dark melee doesn't have the feel of big smash but it actually is incredibly effective at single targets. Weapon sets feel to me like they are hitting people. Secondary wise depends on lots and lots of things. My main general suggestion is to avoid damage auras until after stamina.
Buffer wise I suggest going with something like Thermal, Sonic, Cold or Force Field. These sets all get "shield" powers early. Put shields on your teammate and then shoot the bad guys. The meleer should be super survivable and be so very early.
One thing you might want to do is try the Masterminds, or perhaps one Mastermind again. Possibly mix and match with a Corruptor or Dominator.
Play the Mastermind like a melee character. Take a few melee attacks. Air Superiority and Jump Kick (it's been changed) from Power Pools are great attack powers. Keep your Mastermind pets in "Bodyguard mode". Defensive and Follow is Bodyguard. In BG mode your pets will share some of the damage you take AND they will attack if you or one of them are fired upon. So... keep them in BG mode and flip out and go crazy. Run at the bad guys with your Mastermind and use your attacks. Take maybe one or two from the Primary and Jump Kick and/or Air Superiority.
Mixing the Mastermind with a Dominator who can control the tough enemies or a corruptor who can provide buffs can be really effective and fun. Both the Cor and the Dom do lots of damage too. Now you can get the fire power and easiness of a Mastermind while having action
Smurph I got hung up on the son wanting to blast... OP, do you think he'd be fine playing a corr (or defender) and buffing?
Don't get me wrong, I think it's the best route, but I stopped having suggestions around the time I saw that the son basically wants to play a blaster as it limits styles a good bit.
I would say a Brute and Corruptor pairing or Blaster and Defender pairing would be best for you guys.
The Brute/Blaster player would be doing most of the damage, but it's definitely good damage.
Whoever is playing the Corruptor/Defender would be doing less damage, but most of the Buff/Debuff sets are very active, and they still have blasts so there won't be the "buff and stand there" feeling MMs can sometimes have.
Maybe a something/something brute and an ice,sonic,ar/kin corr?
Well, my thought is with a kin corr the son would be able to take advantage of siphon power/speed to up his damage/recharge regularly... and ID & SB for the brute... and son would be able to heal both of them w/o issue.
Dual Dark Masma / Shield Brutes 
Sorry heroside
Try Broadsword/Katana Regen Scrapper with a Cold or Forcefield Defender or Controller. The buffs on the scrapper will make him super survivable. Regen gets its self-heal and endurance powers early. Combined with the buffs of the shields and controls or attacks from the second character and the scrapper can flip out and go super crazy right from the start. Katana and Broadsword both get an attack at level 8 that adds lots of melee/lethal defense as well for even more survivability. Plus its a big sword. So it hurts people.
Two Dark/Ice Defenders. These guys will be relatively complicated but super powerful and controller-ish.
Dark has Tar Patch, Darkest Night and Twilight Grasp early. From two of you these three will make you incredibly survivable. Enemies will be slowed, weak, and have trouble hitting you. Ice attacks do great single target damage, have a slow component and at level 16 you both get Freeze ray.
Eventually you can have debuffs of many kinds, fears, holds and other powers along with machine-gun like Ice blasts.
Dark might be too complicated for your son but pairing a Dark with a melee character can be great too
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Smurph I got hung up on the son wanting to blast... OP, do you think he'd be fine playing a corr (or defender) and buffing?
Don't get me wrong, I think it's the best route, but I stopped having suggestions around the time I saw that the son basically wants to play a blaster as it limits styles a good bit.
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Surprisingly for a 14-year-old, he is pretty open to anything. He is even willing to try a tanker to my fire/ele blaster(not even sure if that would be a good combo). He definitely needs some coaching though, which I am willing to do.
Are any of these combos good without the money to dump into IO sets? Part of the problem I have been having finding decent builds has been that most of them are slotted with them. It makes it hard to know how I should be slotting while levelling up.
Thanks again.
How about a Dark/Sonic Defender and a Inv/Fire Tank?
Most of the combos being suggested now are the "get their good powers early" combos. They are also mostly easy to play. IOs and a fancy build won't be needed for any of these to be effective but kicking machines.
The most important thing to consider pre-level 20 is your endurance. Slot your attacks (not toggles) first. Slot endurance reduction enhancements (light blue) in these attacks. Your blue bars will last much longer with this slotting.
To pile on excitedly to Smurphy's post;
If you want to be good right out the door and in the low game, why not run a dark defender (you) and a blaster?
A dark defender that takes every power up through fearsome stare (stopping only for a travel power) is a massive tank in the low game - better than any tanker by far as long as it's played well. Here's what you go for:
#1) Darkest Night: A toggle that significantly reduces both chance to hit (enhanceable) and damage per attack (unenhancable) of all nearby opponents. This gives you a chance to learn new skills, 'toggle pulling' and 'toggle herding' to keep them clumped together.
#2) Tar Patch: Anything standing on this takes approximately 30% more damage and is slow to run over it. Very, very powerful runspeed slow against +0-1's. Toggle a group, run around a corner, drop patch, they're stuck together and ready for flambe.
#3) Twilight Grasp: A large heal to everyone around you (must hit).
#4) Howling Twilight: A large, AOE stun that auto hits every minion, and decreases regeneration by 500% for 30 seconds.
...
...
... It also happens to be a res, but at the low game, it's you're auto-hit stun. Use it as such.
#5) Shadow Fall - at the low game this is an incredibly expensive toggle which more or less makes you a little more sneaky. It does have some fantastic stats to it, but before SO's this is the only power I'd consider skipping. I typically always take it just so I can sneak up on spawns.
#6) Fearsome Stare - Another gigantic -tohit buff in a huge cone. Oh, and it fears. Feared minions only get to act once every few seconds. Insta control.
Take those six powers, in more or less that order as soon as they're available, and you will dominate the low game. Then, of course, you need something to kill those opponents... and in comes your son!
There's a reason darks are called "tankfenders".
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Are any of these combos good without the money to dump into IO sets? Part of the problem I have been having finding decent builds has been that most of them are slotted with them. It makes it hard to know how I should be slotting while levelling up.
Thanks again.
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Most buffing powersets don't get a ton out of IO's. The melee toon, if you have one, will have a lot more to gain (relatively speaking) from IO's.
One other quick comment;
Tankers are very slow to mature in my experience, not 'good' till 22 and SO's. Poor dam-end ratio, few attacks, weak shields before So's, etc.
Brutes are around the middle,
Scrappers are the fastest right out of the gate because you can rely heavily on your offense. As a bonus, most sets get access to status resist pretty early, I think 16 is the latest you'll get it.
If you are staying low game, and someone is playing a melee, I'd rec scrapper > brute > tanker.
Taking down AVs, go 2xRad/Sonic or 2x Ill/Rad or 2x Fire/Rad.
When Issue 16 rolls around you cna try going Fire/Cold pair or Illusion/Cold.
Since you mentioned Speed...AM will increase your movement, recharge, damage, endurance modification etc etc.
Or you can go "Pinball Wizard" and build paid of Kinetics, once you get Speed Boost you're (literally) off to the races and it's a very aggressive set to play.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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Or you can go "Pinball Wizard" and build paid of Kinetics, once you get Speed Boost you're (literally) off to the races and it's a very aggressive set to play.
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Droolworthy playstyle. Grab a duo of corrs or defenders and go to town... of course, it's much more of a "kill them before they kill you" playstyle, but you give each other status protection (ID) and can both heal, drain damage and speed... etc!
Best of luck, I'm going to get out of the office while my scripts load for the night... enjoy your new duo, whatever it ends up as!
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Sorry heroside
Try Broadsword/Katana Regen Scrapper with a Cold or Forcefield Defender or Controller. The buffs on the scrapper will make him super survivable. Regen gets its self-heal and endurance powers early. Combined with the buffs of the shields and controls or attacks from the second character and the scrapper can flip out and go super crazy right from the start. Katana and Broadsword both get an attack at level 8 that adds lots of melee/lethal defense as well for even more survivability. Plus its a big sword. So it hurts people.
Two Dark/Ice Defenders. These guys will be relatively complicated but super powerful and controller-ish.
Dark has Tar Patch, Darkest Night and Twilight Grasp early. From two of you these three will make you incredibly survivable. Enemies will be slowed, weak, and have trouble hitting you. Ice attacks do great single target damage, have a slow component and at level 16 you both get Freeze ray.
Eventually you can have debuffs of many kinds, fears, holds and other powers along with machine-gun like Ice blasts.
Dark might be too complicated for your son but pairing a Dark with a melee character can be great too
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I'm liking the dark/ice defender idea. If I understand correctly, we would be able to hold bosses with both of us using freeze ray? Could you(or anyone for that matter) recommend a good build for single target boss/av hunting?
Thanks much.
One of the most effective duos I've run (with a friend whom I've duoed with often over the years) was an Ill/Kin Controller coupled with an Ice/Ice Blaster.
Illusion is good as a sort of fire-and-forget control setup, letting you drop down spectral terror and/or decoys, then get on with buffing and attacking. Slot up Blind as an attack for both damage and containment (most things don't survive long enough to worry about hold duration, and the Blaster can stack theirs if need be.. though with HOs you can max out damage and hold, get respectable acc, and still have room for damage procs), along with Spectral Wounds and, later, an epic pool attack, and it's pretty good single target damage. Not so good for setting up AoE-containment, but you say you're not so worried about AoE. Once it gets going it's great at harmlessly deflecting aggro too - Decoys are up that bit more often when you have Siphon Speed boosting your recharge (I took Hasten too, personally) and later on the Phantasm summons his own Decoy which I found worked fine against AV/Boss targets while the decoys recharged.
Meanwhile the Blaster gets to be, well, blasty, and gets buffed up by the Ill/Kin while doing so. Ice Blast is pretty good for single target damage, and with the Ice Blast holds and Ice Manipulation soft controls they can easily deal with anything that escapes the Ill/Kin's aggro grabbing/ceasing activities.
The Ill/Kin maybes takes a little while to mature (endurance can be painful before Transference), but even early on you can neuter any 2-person spawns by cycling Deceive and Blind, while the Kin part provides a fairly hefty heal (if you can train the Blaster to stay in range of it), a damage buff, and you only need to wait til 20 for Speed Boost. By the 40s this duo was taking on everything, from multiple spawns to AVs and the odd zone Giant Monster. All pre-IOs too, so no big deal if they're out of reach (and gravy if they're not).
There's lots of powerful combos out there, and probably several better than this one, but that's the one I've had the most experience (and success) with so far.
I'm keeping things intentionally simple. It will take two holds to succesfully hold a boss. This means that with a little bit of recharge and hold duration a single one of you could Hold a boss with Freeze Ray alone. Just fire it every time it's recharged. Two of you firing your Freeze Rays on a Boss will easily and quickly hold a boss. Just remember to keep applying it. With two of you neither of you will have to remember to press the hold all the time. Further, you can get "Petrifying Gaze" a hold from the Dark set as well. I don't think it is really necessary nor wanted. Freeze Ray recharges that fast.
Early on you'll be both able to use your Ice Blasts and Twilight Grasp and easily be able to defeat everything. I suggest mixing in using Tar Patch and Darkest Night just to practice. Eventually these two will be super super important. However, you might not notice the difference early and the Ice Blasts will simply kick booty.
I threw together a basic build below. Personally, I don't care too much about travel powers. The temporary flight packs from banks are good enough. I threw in Hover/Fly as placeholders. Feel free to change those to other travel powers. Hasten is helpful but you will do more than fine without it so don't feel pressed into Super Speed. If you really like travel powers and want them early push "Frost Breath" back. I put it in because attacks are fun. Slide up Darkest Night/Tar Patch and push Hurdle/Health back. You will be able to get any travel power you want by level 14 if you so choose.
Hero Profile:
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Level 1: Twilight Grasp Acc(A), Acc(7), Heal(7), Heal(19)
Level 1: Ice Bolt EndRdx(A), EndRdx(3), Acc(5), Dmg(11), Dmg(15)
Level 2: Ice Blast EndRdx(A), EndRdx(3), Acc(5), Dmg(11), Dmg(15)
Level 4: Frost Breath EndRdx(A), Acc(9), Dmg(9)
Level 6: Tar Patch RechRdx(A)
Level 8: Darkest Night EndRdx(A)
Level 10: Hurdle Empty(A)
Level 12: Fearsome Stare Acc(A), RechRdx(13), Acc(13)
Level 14: Health Empty(A)
Level 16: Freeze Ray Acc(A), Acc(17), EndRdx(17), RechRdx(19)
Level 18: Hover Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21)
Level 22: Ice Storm EndRdx(A), Acc(23), Dmg(23)
Level 24: Shadow Fall Empty(A)
Level 26: Fly Empty(A)
Level 28: Bitter Ice Blast Empty(A)
I put in slots that you should start using. The endurance reduction is intended to be pre-Stamina slotting. Once you get Stamina you probably will be able to take a lot of that Endurance Reduction out.
I suggest not taking Black Hole nor Bitter Freeze Ray. I don't think either will be useful to you. Petrifying Gaze is take-able but I doubt you will want it. Taking it makes you hold machines.
Aim, Howling Twilight, Hasten and Combat Jumping are all powers you probably want. It's just a matter of personal preference on those.
Dark Servant and Blizzard are pretty much definite choices.
Try the slotting like I proposed until you get Stamina. Then slot to your own style.
My son and I just started playing a couple weeks ago, and we have basically been trying out as many AT combinations as possible. We haven't yet found the one we like yet, so I've come for your opinions.
What are some of the best 2-man combos available?
We are mostly interested in taking on bosses/AV's, so aoe is of very little interest to us right now. We started on villains but have just switched over to playing heroes. Speed and sustainability are the top qualities I think I am looking for. We just want to be able kill quickly and move on to the next challenge.
Thanks in advance for the help!